The Automation Crisis: Why " None UI Add-ons" on Console Violate Official Policy

heimdall14_9 · February 27

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lillybit · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

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"third party applications"

DenverRalphy · February 27

lillybit wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

[

"third party applications"

"unapproved third party applications"

[edit] there is an outside chance that I misinterpreted where you were going with that, so my ammendment may not amount to much.

Avran_Sylt · February 27

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

How fast is the gear swap?

A second to a couple of seconds. But you need to prepare the setup beforehand. It just swaps your food, skills, items and CP what you would otherwise spend ages in the menus scrolling.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be hot keyed and used while in stealth without breaking it?

Good question. Don't know. But I would assume if you can swap items/skills/CP while in stealth, then yes. It doesn't do anything you can't do in the menu. Less, actually, since in the menus you can add skill points to open new skills and add CP to open new stars - WW cannot do these things.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be used in PvP zones? (Cause it really does annoy me that I can't use the armory station in BG's)

Yes. But it does not replace the armory station. If you want to swap from one build to another successfully, you need to have all the CPs, all the skills and all the gear from both setups open. It only swaps those things, it does not open them for you. It also cannot change your mundus, attributes, your curse, open any skills, assign new CP points anywhere. It only swaps existing available things to other things that you have prepared and pre-defined.

edit: in BGs... Like with any gear/skill swapping you must be out of combat. WW is not magic. It does not override any game mechanics. Same rules apply as manual swapping. If you can swap your setup manually, you can use WW. If you can't swap your setup manually, WW can't either. (But you can queue the swap. Hit a hot key while in combat and it does it for you once you are out of combat.)

Ah gotcha, was wondering moreso if it could be used to quickswap items and abilities between a brawling setup and single-target or a bomber build quickly while roaming IC in stealth. Sounds useful for ganking.

If you have all the abilities open for all the setups you want to use in WW, then yes, you can. But at least the brawler and bomber builds I make use different attributes, mundus, some morphs might be different, so I would need an armory for that.

But if you could swap the setup manually without opening new CP, without opening new skills, or changing morphs, using same mundus, etc. So what you could do in the menu (except open new CP or skills) you can do with WW. I do have some quick swaps in WW for some Cyro action. Like a scroll runner build so I can quickly swap to a fast build (without Steed, tho), pick up a scroll and then run like the wind.

And THAT, I do have a problem with, as it gives you a time and distance advantage over players not using the addon. Both of which are very important in PvP. (But also why I very well may download it for ganking purposes).

It's a free tool everyone has access to. If you CAN use a tool but chose not to it's not an unfair advantage if someone else does.

I understand it's not an unfair advantage, I just view it as cheapening the experience and unsporting.

Avran_Sylt · February 27

lillybit wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

How fast is the gear swap?

A second to a couple of seconds. But you need to prepare the setup beforehand. It just swaps your food, skills, items and CP what you would otherwise spend ages in the menus scrolling.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be hot keyed and used while in stealth without breaking it?

Good question. Don't know. But I would assume if you can swap items/skills/CP while in stealth, then yes. It doesn't do anything you can't do in the menu. Less, actually, since in the menus you can add skill points to open new skills and add CP to open new stars - WW cannot do these things.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be used in PvP zones? (Cause it really does annoy me that I can't use the armory station in BG's)

Yes. But it does not replace the armory station. If you want to swap from one build to another successfully, you need to have all the CPs, all the skills and all the gear from both setups open. It only swaps those things, it does not open them for you. It also cannot change your mundus, attributes, your curse, open any skills, assign new CP points anywhere. It only swaps existing available things to other things that you have prepared and pre-defined.

edit: in BGs... Like with any gear/skill swapping you must be out of combat. WW is not magic. It does not override any game mechanics. Same rules apply as manual swapping. If you can swap your setup manually, you can use WW. If you can't swap your setup manually, WW can't either. (But you can queue the swap. Hit a hot key while in combat and it does it for you once you are out of combat.)

Ah gotcha, was wondering moreso if it could be used to quickswap items and abilities between a brawling setup and single-target or a bomber build quickly while roaming IC in stealth. Sounds useful for ganking.

If you have all the abilities open for all the setups you want to use in WW, then yes, you can. But at least the brawler and bomber builds I make use different attributes, mundus, some morphs might be different, so I would need an armory for that.

But if you could swap the setup manually without opening new CP, without opening new skills, or changing morphs, using same mundus, etc. So what you could do in the menu (except open new CP or skills) you can do with WW. I do have some quick swaps in WW for some Cyro action. Like a scroll runner build so I can quickly swap to a fast build (without Steed, tho), pick up a scroll and then run like the wind.

And THAT, I do have a problem with, as it gives you a time and distance advantage over players not using the addon. Both of which are very important in PvP. (But also why I very well may download it for ganking purposes).

It doesn't really tho. They could swap it out manually in a few seconds. If you're running the scroll the few seconds delay at the start matter less than running slower. It's maybe 15-20 seconds saved.

It doesn't even really give them a time advantage because the people chasing will be mounted, it just gives them a bit more of a fighting chance.

They already said it's not practical for massively changing your build because it needs different things WW can't change

Right, but such as when ganking around IC, being able to swap from a brawler/prowler setup to a proc burst build or bomb build when spotting someone, skills included, those 15-20s matter far more when it comes to setup.

(I wonder if swapping out Ulfsild's after activation cancels the ability... Could be a method to access more barspace)

heimdall14_9 · February 27

If you're wanting to get technical you have to lump the two together because one specifically states that one applies you got the code of conduct which is your main rules and then you subsidized for your add-ons if you read them you'll see you cannot script it's a violation regardless of your the add-on maker or not

code65536 · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

if ZOS would respond to any of my posts and give a clear 'yes' or 'no' regarding their stance on 0-input automation, I would stop immediately.

Their silence is their response. And the fact that such addons have been around for over 10 years at this point. Over the years, how many people have asked on the forums for ZOS to confirm whether or not light-attack weaving and animation cancelling is intended or an exploit? They've never responded to those questions on the forums. Ever. You're tilting at windmills.

heimdall14_9 · February 27

imPDA wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

I don't think ZOS would want to tread on treating disability as misconduct.

I can say I am disabled too, who is gonna check? I saw no single proof of them playing 48k hours, taking all achievements, etc. They joined a couple of months ago and already sent 500+ messages - sounds like couch warrior or troll behavior.

i hope this shows you enough hours i dont feel like getting on rest of my accounts nor updating pc to log in just to show more lol i can tho

Enemoriana · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

If you're wanting to get technical you have to lump the two together because one specifically states that one applies you got the code of conduct which is your main rules and then you subsidized for your add-ons if you read them you'll see you cannot script it's a violation regardless of your the add-on maker or not

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

"imPDA, since you asked for the exact citations, here they are. It’s a very simple read:

Add-on Terms Section 5.1: 'You may not create, utilize, or transact in any... add-on that automates gameplay.'

Code of Conduct Section 2.2: 'You may not... use any third-party software, tools, or programs... that automate actions within the Services [or] promote unattended gameplay.'

So... it was AI writing only what you say, as was claimed before, and you intentionally post deliberately false non-existent quotes, or AI is writing instead of you and you even don't check answers?

Also, either you claim all addons are "unapproved third-party applications", or none of them. That can not work for one and not work for another. And, as we see ZOS don't treat addons like and intentionally allow them to exist and built in support of them in game...

And I still wait proofs about one action, with "one action" claimed as "press button".

heimdall14_9 · February 27

Enemoriana wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

If you're wanting to get technical you have to lump the two together because one specifically states that one applies you got the code of conduct which is your main rules and then you subsidized for your add-ons if you read them you'll see you cannot script it's a violation regardless of your the add-on maker or not

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

"imPDA, since you asked for the exact citations, here they are. It’s a very simple read:

Add-on Terms Section 5.1: 'You may not create, utilize, or transact in any... add-on that automates gameplay.'

Code of Conduct Section 2.2: 'You may not... use any third-party software, tools, or programs... that automate actions within the Services [or] promote unattended gameplay.'

So... it was AI writing only what you say, as was claimed before, and you intentionally post deliberately false non-existent quotes, or AI is writing instead of you and you even don't check answers?

Also, either you claim all addons are "unapproved third-party applications", or none of them. That can not work for one and not work for another. And, as we see ZOS don't treat addons like and intentionally allow them to exist and built in support of them in game...

And I still wait proofs about one action, with "one action" claimed as "press button".

i have read these same rules they just posted in short fastion but i know they was real not made by AI reason i put up pictures

heimdall14_9 · February 27

there is pic of time played on 3 of my 16 psn accounts and pics of COC and add-on trems im not going to defend my use of AI as my reasons for use have done been said and its an over played way out of giving real facts to this matter

Enemoriana · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

i have read these same rules they just posted in short fastion but i know they was real not made by AI reason i put up pictures

You was asked for exact quotes. Your answer contained "quotes" that does not exist in named documents.
You post screenshot of another document and phrasing is absolutely another (and wording is important in such things). Not with snipped pieces, just another.

Your quote:
'You may not... use any third-party software, tools, or programs... that automate actions within the Services [or] promote unattended gameplay.'

Real one:
"5.1 You are forbidden from using any unapproved third-party applications, programs, scripts or any other game modifying mechanic used to change the game play experience on a ZeniMax game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax, including the distribution of said programs via ZeniMax Services, sites, forums, communities, etc. This would include but is not limited to using or distributing speed hacks, aim bots, mouse controllers, spam bots, automated game play devices, etc. Third party applications are defined as any program, application or script written by an individual, company, corporation, or private party not employed by or contracted to perform services by ZeniMax."

This makes those first quotes either intentionally false or AI-hallucinated.
Which one?

Enemoriana · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

there is pic of time played on 3 of my 16 psn accounts and pics of COC and add-on trems im not going to defend my use of AI as my reasons for use have done been said and its an over played way out of giving real facts to this matter

You do not have to protect using AI. It is great that AI can assist.
Problem is only bad using of AI, which gives wrong information.

OutLaw_Nynx · February 27

I think this thread needs to be locked at this point….

@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Hadeostry @ZOS_Kevin

ZOS_Icy · February 27

Greetings,

As this thread has derailed with off-topic and back-and-forth commentary, we've decided to close it down. Please be sure to keep our Community Rules in mind when posting on our forums. Please remember to keep conversations constructive and civil and take a moment to review our community rules.

The Elder Scrolls Online Team