The Automation Crisis: Why " None UI Add-ons" on Console Violate Official Policy

imPDA · February 27

TL;DR LLM pooped itself again.

Reginald_leBlem · February 27

Well hopefully OP learns a valuable lesson about fact checking AI answers.

ganzaeso · February 27

This entire thread is about enforcement of the rules which is not allowed by forum policy.

frogthroat · February 27

imPDA wrote: »

Code of Conduct 5.1: "You are forbidden from using any unapproved third-party applications... on a ZeniMax game, Service, **forum**...".

I think his AI-outsourced thinking just doesn't understand this 5.1 part, and hallucinates that this is TOS when the 5.1 is actually in COC. And because his robot is not a lawyer, it has no clue that the automation mentioned here is not about automating menus, but automating your character to move, use skills and/or interact with the world. And it has become quite clear he is outsourcing argumentation to the AI so he wouldn't know either.

Unfortunately both the TOS and COC have other webpages inside the page, so even if I manually change the url to English, whatever is inside the div-tag is a different page and due to my location is still in Germany so without VPN at work I can only see TOS and COC in German. Modern life is great when you can't select languages yourself. And good luck if you ever visit China because even as a tourist you either learn Chinese or don't read ZOS' TOS or COC because F.U. that's why.

But anyway, with my limited knowledge of German I have not found any mention about the one button one action he keeps repeating. Does anyone know if there is anything like that in TOS or COC? I have just agreed to them because otherwise I can't play the game but I don't fully understand them because they are in a language I don't fully understand - especially legalese.

twisttop138 · February 27

I also want to point out that ZOS very much sees what add-ons are in the game and what they do. When people write add-ons that violate the terms, they have acted quickly and sometimes harshly. I think many of remember the fishing incident of last year. That is automating that's against the rules. Having a macro that executes your rotation, again bad.

It seems strange to me to see this as some moral quest for integrity in gaming. With all the known "dark practices in gaming" seen around here to call out, this is the hill someone wants to die on. I do want to bring your attention to the fact that ZOS has not acknowledged this or any of your other threads. I have a feeling they will not. I typed out a long winded paragraph as the reasons they wouldn't, about last years problems, not wanting to further alienate the end game community after subclassings disastrous rollout etc. But I erased it. Cause at the end of the day, they don't really owe you an explanation. It's been covered pretty well here why. The continued years of this add-ons existence is all the explanation needed.

Edit to add missing word.

lillybit · February 27

frogthroat wrote: »

imPDA wrote: »

Code of Conduct 5.1: "You are forbidden from using any unapproved third-party applications... on a ZeniMax game, Service, **forum**...".

I think his AI-outsourced thinking just doesn't understand this 5.1 part, and hallucinates that this is TOS when the 5.1 is actually in COC. And because his robot is not a lawyer, it has no clue that the automation mentioned here is not about automating menus, but automating your character to move, use skills and/or interact with the world. And it has become quite clear he is outsourcing argumentation to the AI so he wouldn't know either.

Unfortunately both the TOS and COC have other webpages inside the page, so even if I manually change the url to English, whatever is inside the div-tag is a different page and due to my location is still in Germany so without VPN at work I can only see TOS and COC in German. Modern life is great when you can't select languages yourself. And good luck if you ever visit China because even as a tourist you either learn Chinese or don't read ZOS' TOS or COC because F.U. that's why.

But anyway, with my limited knowledge of German I have not found any mention about the one button one action he keeps repeating. Does anyone know if there is anything like that in TOS or COC? I have just agreed to them because otherwise I can't play the game but I don't fully understand them because they are in a language I don't fully understand - especially legalese.

Not that I could find, no. I read the relevant parts of the Terms of Servive and the EULA and all I could find was that one passage I quoted a few posts ago that referred to bots.

The CoC is mostly about the forum and game chat so doesn't apply at all - except maybe for the part about spreading false information

Edited to add Google will tell you it's there now, but it's a direct quote from OP, who's used AI enough to assist with his arguments that it's part of the algorithm now

Malyore · February 27

imPDA wrote: »

@ZOS_Icy Could you please look at answer #192, because it is 100% obvious trolling, because I politely asked to point out concrete paragraph of rules they are referencing, but they answered with AI generated slop again. Add-on Terms contain 3 paragraphs in total; there is no 5.1. Code of Conduct 2.2: , and it is incorrect. So, I believe this person is only coming here to troll with automated answers, which is btw against Code of Conduct 5.1: "You are forbidden from using any unapproved third-party applications... on a ZeniMax game, Service, **forum**...". Thank you in advance!

I don't think ZOS would want to tread on treating disability as misconduct.

frogthroat · February 27

lillybit wrote: »

Edited to add Google will tell you it's there now, but it's a direct quote from OP, who's used AI enough to assist with his arguments that it's part of the algorithm now

Oh wow. You are right.

AI hallucinates a rule, when that is repeated enough, Google algorithm picks up on it. Which then will probably be used as a source for more AIs to invent rules that do not exist. And round and round it goes.

Why do we need humans on the internet? Seems that bots are doing just fine without us.

Four_Fingers · February 27

Seems like forum flooding using AI for response.

imPDA · February 27

Malyore wrote: »

I don't think ZOS would want to tread on treating disability as misconduct.

I can say I am disabled too, who is gonna check? I saw no single proof of them playing 48k hours, taking all achievements, etc. They joined a couple of months ago and already sent 500+ messages - sounds like couch warrior or troll behavior.

frogthroat · February 27

Hm. The more I look into this, the more odd it starts to look like.

Those 48k hours. In 2 months, ESO has been out for 12 years. Ok, let's take that. Let's assume he's played since the beginning. Day 1. And since he is so against automation and wants to show integrity, I will assume all gaming hours are legitimate, no botting, no playing on two accounts simultaneously, no leaving launcher idling, etc., because someone with integrity wouldn't do those things.

That is 12x365 (idc about leap years for this) = 4380 days.

48000 divided by 4380 = 11h per day, every day, without fail, for 12 years.

That's quite a commitment.

valenwood_vegan · February 27

In my experience, AI loves to just repeat back to us or even invent exactly what we tell it we want to hear.

twisttop138 · February 27

frogthroat wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

Edited to add Google will tell you it's there now, but it's a direct quote from OP, who's used AI enough to assist with his arguments that it's part of the algorithm now

Oh wow. You are right.

AI hallucinates a rule, when that is repeated enough, Google algorithm picks up on it. Which then will probably be used as a source for more AIs to invent rules that do not exist. And round and round it goes.

Why do we need humans on the internet? Seems that bots are doing just fine without us.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but do you remember the writhing wall incident? A certain content creator stated they don't use AI but then did a guide for the writhing wall. It was so wildly different it was actually hilarious. Hilarious but also sad. It's getting to be where the human race won't be able to trust what it sees or reads or hears. I don't know what happens then but I'm a little scared.

Renato90085 · February 27

frogthroat wrote: »

Hm. The more I look into this, the more odd it starts to look like.

Those 48k hours. In 2 months, ESO has been out for 12 years. Ok, let's take that. Let's assume he's played since the beginning. Day 1. And since he is so against automation and wants to show integrity, I will assume all gaming hours are legitimate, no botting, no playing on two accounts simultaneously, no leaving launcher idling, etc., because someone with integrity wouldn't do those things.

That is 12x365 (idc about leap years for this) = 4380 days.

48000 divided by 4380 = 11h per day, every day, without fail, for 12 years.

That's quite a commitment.

and game every 1-2week have 5-12 hour Maintenance time

scrappy1342 · February 27

frogthroat wrote: »

Hm. The more I look into this, the more odd it starts to look like.

Those 48k hours. In 2 months, ESO has been out for 12 years. Ok, let's take that. Let's assume he's played since the beginning. Day 1. And since he is so against automation and wants to show integrity, I will assume all gaming hours are legitimate, no botting, no playing on two accounts simultaneously, no leaving launcher idling, etc., because someone with integrity wouldn't do those things.

That is 12x365 (idc about leap years for this) = 4380 days.

48000 divided by 4380 = 11h per day, every day, without fail, for 12 years.

That's quite a commitment.

i've only been actively playing 6 years or so. i started right around covid, because there was time >.> also take into account, i have not played since last april other than daily login, easy endeavors (ie, nothing over 5-10 mins), and getting event tickets, so i might even round that down to 5 years. but my 30k hours a day over the course of 6 years works out to 13.6 hours per day.

the thing about steam is, it records your play time whether you are playing or not if you have the launcher up. also, forgive my crappy pic. i took eso off of the desk top when i stopped playing regularly and put it onto the laptop, which only gets turned on once a day for a few mins to get my eso chores done.

Reginald_leBlem · February 27

scrappy1342 wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Hm. The more I look into this, the more odd it starts to look like.

Those 48k hours. In 2 months, ESO has been out for 12 years. Ok, let's take that. Let's assume he's played since the beginning. Day 1. And since he is so against automation and wants to show integrity, I will assume all gaming hours are legitimate, no botting, no playing on two accounts simultaneously, no leaving launcher idling, etc., because someone with integrity wouldn't do those things.

That is 12x365 (idc about leap years for this) = 4380 days.

48000 divided by 4380 = 11h per day, every day, without fail, for 12 years.

That's quite a commitment.

i've only been actively playing 6 years or so. i started right around covid, because there was time >.> also take into account, i have not played since last april other than daily login, easy endeavors (ie, nothing over 5-10 mins), and getting event tickets, so i might even round that down to 5 years. but my 30k hours a day over the course of 6 years works out to 13.6 hours per day.

the thing about steam is, it records your play time whether you are playing or not if you have the launcher up. also, forgive my crappy pic. i took eso off of the desk top when i stopped playing regularly and put it onto the laptop, which only gets turned on once a day for a few mins to get my eso chores done.

I've often wondered if steam counts it double. Like if you open the game and play for 1 hour but have the launcher open does steam get confused and count it as 2 hours?

frogthroat · February 27

scrappy1342 wrote: »

the thing about steam is, it records your play time whether you are playing or not if you have the launcher up.

Yup. But you're not boasting with your 30k hours. I probably have bloated numbers, too. I often forget to close the launcher. Which is why I also don't boast with my numbers. Wouldn't show much integrity if I did.

But he claims integrity is important to him so surely he doesn't bloat his numbers by leaving launcher idling and then boast with numbers he hasn't even played.

scrappy1342 · February 27

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

I've often wondered if steam counts it double. Like if you open the game and play for 1 hour but have the launcher open does steam get confused and count it as 2 hours?

as far as i know, no, it only counts what is on the launcher.

frogthroat wrote: »

But he claims integrity is important to him so surely he doesn't bloat his numbers by leaving launcher idling and then boast with numbers he hasn't even played.

really you don't even have to have the launcher bloating it. you could just leave the game running. when i played wow on rp servers, i'd park my character somewhere in a nice quiet spot during the day and i'd work on other things irl. i'd get some nice random rp during the day and chat with ppl while i worked. but in this case, yeah, probably bloating numbers because i'm not actually -playing- the game. of course that gets subjective. there's definitely many things that can factor in. but the steam thing is probably the most common.

Dolgubon · February 27

Arunei wrote: »

Finally, someone mentioned that one fishing addon that got banned. Iirc that got banned because it was a third-party program that posed a security risk? It wasn't even that it automated things, at least not entirely.

That fishing 'addon' was not an add-on. It was an external, third party program. Those are different from add-ons, which are not against TOS and are officially supported by ZOS. And the issue was in fact that it 100% automated things, doing multiple things that add-ons do not, and are completely unable to do

Avran_Sylt · February 27

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

How fast is the gear swap?

A second to a couple of seconds. But you need to prepare the setup beforehand. It just swaps your food, skills, items and CP what you would otherwise spend ages in the menus scrolling.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be hot keyed and used while in stealth without breaking it?

Good question. Don't know. But I would assume if you can swap items/skills/CP while in stealth, then yes. It doesn't do anything you can't do in the menu. Less, actually, since in the menus you can add skill points to open new skills and add CP to open new stars - WW cannot do these things.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be used in PvP zones? (Cause it really does annoy me that I can't use the armory station in BG's)

Yes. But it does not replace the armory station. If you want to swap from one build to another successfully, you need to have all the CPs, all the skills and all the gear from both setups open. It only swaps those things, it does not open them for you. It also cannot change your mundus, attributes, your curse, open any skills, assign new CP points anywhere. It only swaps existing available things to other things that you have prepared and pre-defined.

edit: in BGs... Like with any gear/skill swapping you must be out of combat. WW is not magic. It does not override any game mechanics. Same rules apply as manual swapping. If you can swap your setup manually, you can use WW. If you can't swap your setup manually, WW can't either. (But you can queue the swap. Hit a hot key while in combat and it does it for you once you are out of combat.)

Ah gotcha, was wondering moreso if it could be used to quickswap items and abilities between a brawling setup and single-target or a bomber build quickly while roaming IC in stealth. Sounds useful for ganking.

Avran_Sylt · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

frogthroat, you are fundamentally misdefining "Automation" as it applies to the Code of Conduct.

Took you in total 6 minutes to write three lengthy responses, including the time it took you to read them and think of a response?

Sorry, but it is not humanely possible to write that fast. I do not debate robots.

Using addons to automate something you would do in the menu is fine by me but using this kind of automation as a substitute for discussion is not.

frogthroat, you are proving my point for me.

You find it "dehumanizing" that I use a tool to help me organize my thoughts and overcome my physical and mental injuries, yet you find it perfectly acceptable to use a tool that dehumanizes the combat of the game by automating 60+ actions.

1. On "Debating Robots"
I have been 100% transparent: I use AI to help me communicate because of my injuries. The ideas are mine; the logic is mine; the 10 years of experience on console are mine. The AI simply helps me put those thoughts into a structure that you can't easily dismiss. If you choose to stop debating because my responses are "too fast" or "too organized," that tells me you have no actual counter-argument to the Add-on Terms I’ve cited.

2. Automation vs. Assistance
You said: "Using addons to automate something you would do in the menu is fine by me."

The Distinction: I am using a tool to assist me in a discussion that I am actively leading. I am reading your posts, I am deciding the strategy, and I am hitting "Post."

The Issue: Wizards Wardrobe doesn't assist; it automates. It removes the player's decision-making process during a trial by triggering itself based on boss detection.

3. The Hypocrisy
It is incredibly ironic that you are calling for "humanity" in a forum discussion while defending the "dehumanization" of The Elder Scrolls Online gameplay. You want me to struggle to type my replies manually, but you don't want to have to manually change your gear in a dungeon.

I will continue to use every tool available to me—just as the community suggested I do for years—to protect the Code of Conduct of this game. If you'd rather "disengage" than address the fact that zero-input automation is a violation, that is your choice. But the facts I’ve presented regarding the One-Action Rule still stand.

Sir_Crowley / Nordic-Knights

Haven't yet gone through the rest of the pages.

Not a huge fan of WW, but as an accessibility tool it is one, especially for RSI. So TBH you're kinda shooting your own argument in the foot.

Avran_Sylt · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Question, since I don't use WW.

How fast is the gear swap?

Can it be hot keyed and used while in stealth without breaking it?

Can it be used in PvP zones? (Cause it really does annoy me that I can't use the armory station in BG's)

1. How fast is the gear swap?
According to the user frogthroat, a gear swap typically takes a second to a couple of seconds. However, it requires you to have prepared the specific setup (gear, skills, CP, and food) beforehand.

2. Can it be hotkeyed and used in stealth?
Hotkeys: Yes, it can be hotkeyed. Users often assign setups to a number pad or specific keys to cycle through them quickly.

Stealth: The consensus in the thread is that if you can manually swap items or skills while in stealth without breaking it, then the add-on can as well. It follows the same mechanical rules as the base game menus—it just executes the actions faster.

3. Can it be used in PvP zones (BGs/Cyrodiil)?
Yes, but with the same strict limitations as manual swapping:

Out of Combat Only: You cannot use it while in combat. If you hit a hotkey while in a fight, it will typically "queue" the swap and execute it the moment you drop combat.

No Armory Replacement: Unlike an Armory Station, WW cannot change your Mundus stone, attributes, or vampire/werewolf curses. It only swaps gear and skills you already have available in your inventory and skill lines.

I received an answer already and you responded with literally no new information except for bloat. Don't make the AI scrape the thread just to regurgitate info if you have no new information to provide yourself.

LunaFlora · February 27

as a disabled person myself and a Playstation player,
this thread convinced me to use Wizard's Wardrobe as it sounds like it makes the game more accessible.

other helpful add-ons i love:
- Lazy Writ Crafter, crafts for you when you interact with a crafting station.
- Fancy Action Bar, lets you enlarge skill bar icons.
- House Hotkey, lets you put houses on quickslot wheels.
- Zone Mount and Pet Switcher, switches mounts and pets for you every single time you switch zones.
- update 47 Tweaker, lets you select colours for distance numbers and uncollected symbols.

Soarora · February 27

Honestly, with how off the rails this post has gone, I think it’d be more beneficial to get this one closed and start a new one where the first post clearly specifies you mean the auto swapping, not the addon’s ability to swap gear when manually selected. And I guess the AI’s bothering people more than your typing but if you still want to use it, I’d add in the first post why you’re using it as well. @heimdall14_9

frogthroat · February 27

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

How fast is the gear swap?

A second to a couple of seconds. But you need to prepare the setup beforehand. It just swaps your food, skills, items and CP what you would otherwise spend ages in the menus scrolling.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be hot keyed and used while in stealth without breaking it?

Good question. Don't know. But I would assume if you can swap items/skills/CP while in stealth, then yes. It doesn't do anything you can't do in the menu. Less, actually, since in the menus you can add skill points to open new skills and add CP to open new stars - WW cannot do these things.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be used in PvP zones? (Cause it really does annoy me that I can't use the armory station in BG's)

Yes. But it does not replace the armory station. If you want to swap from one build to another successfully, you need to have all the CPs, all the skills and all the gear from both setups open. It only swaps those things, it does not open them for you. It also cannot change your mundus, attributes, your curse, open any skills, assign new CP points anywhere. It only swaps existing available things to other things that you have prepared and pre-defined.

edit: in BGs... Like with any gear/skill swapping you must be out of combat. WW is not magic. It does not override any game mechanics. Same rules apply as manual swapping. If you can swap your setup manually, you can use WW. If you can't swap your setup manually, WW can't either. (But you can queue the swap. Hit a hot key while in combat and it does it for you once you are out of combat.)

Ah gotcha, was wondering moreso if it could be used to quickswap items and abilities between a brawling setup and single-target or a bomber build quickly while roaming IC in stealth. Sounds useful for ganking.

If you have all the abilities open for all the setups you want to use in WW, then yes, you can. But at least the brawler and bomber builds I make use different attributes, mundus, some morphs might be different, so I would need an armory for that.

But if you could swap the setup manually without opening new CP, without opening new skills, or changing morphs, using same mundus, etc. So what you could do in the menu (except open new CP or skills) you can do with WW. I do have some quick swaps in WW for some Cyro action. Like a scroll runner build so I can quickly swap to a fast build (without Steed, tho), pick up a scroll and then run like the wind.

Avran_Sylt · February 27

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

How fast is the gear swap?

A second to a couple of seconds. But you need to prepare the setup beforehand. It just swaps your food, skills, items and CP what you would otherwise spend ages in the menus scrolling.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be hot keyed and used while in stealth without breaking it?

Good question. Don't know. But I would assume if you can swap items/skills/CP while in stealth, then yes. It doesn't do anything you can't do in the menu. Less, actually, since in the menus you can add skill points to open new skills and add CP to open new stars - WW cannot do these things.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be used in PvP zones? (Cause it really does annoy me that I can't use the armory station in BG's)

Yes. But it does not replace the armory station. If you want to swap from one build to another successfully, you need to have all the CPs, all the skills and all the gear from both setups open. It only swaps those things, it does not open them for you. It also cannot change your mundus, attributes, your curse, open any skills, assign new CP points anywhere. It only swaps existing available things to other things that you have prepared and pre-defined.

edit: in BGs... Like with any gear/skill swapping you must be out of combat. WW is not magic. It does not override any game mechanics. Same rules apply as manual swapping. If you can swap your setup manually, you can use WW. If you can't swap your setup manually, WW can't either. (But you can queue the swap. Hit a hot key while in combat and it does it for you once you are out of combat.)

Ah gotcha, was wondering moreso if it could be used to quickswap items and abilities between a brawling setup and single-target or a bomber build quickly while roaming IC in stealth. Sounds useful for ganking.

If you have all the abilities open for all the setups you want to use in WW, then yes, you can. But at least the brawler and bomber builds I make use different attributes, mundus, some morphs might be different, so I would need an armory for that.

But if you could swap the setup manually without opening new CP, without opening new skills, or changing morphs, using same mundus, etc. So what you could do in the menu (except open new CP or skills) you can do with WW. I do have some quick swaps in WW for some Cyro action. Like a scroll runner build so I can quickly swap to a fast build (without Steed, tho), pick up a scroll and then run like the wind.

And THAT, I do have a problem with, as it gives you a time and distance advantage over players not using the addon. Both of which are very important in PvP. (But also why I very well may download it for ganking purposes).

lillybit · February 27

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

How fast is the gear swap?

A second to a couple of seconds. But you need to prepare the setup beforehand. It just swaps your food, skills, items and CP what you would otherwise spend ages in the menus scrolling.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be hot keyed and used while in stealth without breaking it?

Good question. Don't know. But I would assume if you can swap items/skills/CP while in stealth, then yes. It doesn't do anything you can't do in the menu. Less, actually, since in the menus you can add skill points to open new skills and add CP to open new stars - WW cannot do these things.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be used in PvP zones? (Cause it really does annoy me that I can't use the armory station in BG's)

Yes. But it does not replace the armory station. If you want to swap from one build to another successfully, you need to have all the CPs, all the skills and all the gear from both setups open. It only swaps those things, it does not open them for you. It also cannot change your mundus, attributes, your curse, open any skills, assign new CP points anywhere. It only swaps existing available things to other things that you have prepared and pre-defined.

edit: in BGs... Like with any gear/skill swapping you must be out of combat. WW is not magic. It does not override any game mechanics. Same rules apply as manual swapping. If you can swap your setup manually, you can use WW. If you can't swap your setup manually, WW can't either. (But you can queue the swap. Hit a hot key while in combat and it does it for you once you are out of combat.)

Ah gotcha, was wondering moreso if it could be used to quickswap items and abilities between a brawling setup and single-target or a bomber build quickly while roaming IC in stealth. Sounds useful for ganking.

If you have all the abilities open for all the setups you want to use in WW, then yes, you can. But at least the brawler and bomber builds I make use different attributes, mundus, some morphs might be different, so I would need an armory for that.

But if you could swap the setup manually without opening new CP, without opening new skills, or changing morphs, using same mundus, etc. So what you could do in the menu (except open new CP or skills) you can do with WW. I do have some quick swaps in WW for some Cyro action. Like a scroll runner build so I can quickly swap to a fast build (without Steed, tho), pick up a scroll and then run like the wind.

And THAT, I do have a problem with, as it gives you a time and distance advantage over players not using the addon. Both of which are very important in PvP. (But also why I very well may download it for ganking purposes).

It doesn't really tho. They could swap it out manually in a few seconds. If you're running the scroll the few seconds delay at the start matter less than running slower. It's maybe 15-20 seconds saved.

It doesn't even really give them a time advantage because the people chasing will be mounted, it just gives them a bit more of a fighting chance.

They already said it's not practical for massively changing your build because it needs different things WW can't change

frogthroat · February 27

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

How fast is the gear swap?

A second to a couple of seconds. But you need to prepare the setup beforehand. It just swaps your food, skills, items and CP what you would otherwise spend ages in the menus scrolling.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be hot keyed and used while in stealth without breaking it?

Good question. Don't know. But I would assume if you can swap items/skills/CP while in stealth, then yes. It doesn't do anything you can't do in the menu. Less, actually, since in the menus you can add skill points to open new skills and add CP to open new stars - WW cannot do these things.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be used in PvP zones? (Cause it really does annoy me that I can't use the armory station in BG's)

Yes. But it does not replace the armory station. If you want to swap from one build to another successfully, you need to have all the CPs, all the skills and all the gear from both setups open. It only swaps those things, it does not open them for you. It also cannot change your mundus, attributes, your curse, open any skills, assign new CP points anywhere. It only swaps existing available things to other things that you have prepared and pre-defined.

edit: in BGs... Like with any gear/skill swapping you must be out of combat. WW is not magic. It does not override any game mechanics. Same rules apply as manual swapping. If you can swap your setup manually, you can use WW. If you can't swap your setup manually, WW can't either. (But you can queue the swap. Hit a hot key while in combat and it does it for you once you are out of combat.)

Ah gotcha, was wondering moreso if it could be used to quickswap items and abilities between a brawling setup and single-target or a bomber build quickly while roaming IC in stealth. Sounds useful for ganking.

If you have all the abilities open for all the setups you want to use in WW, then yes, you can. But at least the brawler and bomber builds I make use different attributes, mundus, some morphs might be different, so I would need an armory for that.

But if you could swap the setup manually without opening new CP, without opening new skills, or changing morphs, using same mundus, etc. So what you could do in the menu (except open new CP or skills) you can do with WW. I do have some quick swaps in WW for some Cyro action. Like a scroll runner build so I can quickly swap to a fast build (without Steed, tho), pick up a scroll and then run like the wind.

And THAT, I do have a problem with, as it gives you a time and distance advantage over players not using the addon. Both of which are very important in PvP. (But also why I very well may download it for ganking purposes).

Typically when we have been grabbing a scroll we have taken over a keep, repaired the doors and then take the scroll. Usually there's no enemy brawlers inside the keep at that point, so no one to kill me in the menus anyway. It's more of a QoL at that point. I rather do running than spend time in menus.

edit: seriously, what is wrong with this forum software? I already responded to one message. Why is it still in the reply field?

Reginald_leBlem · February 27

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

How fast is the gear swap?

A second to a couple of seconds. But you need to prepare the setup beforehand. It just swaps your food, skills, items and CP what you would otherwise spend ages in the menus scrolling.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be hot keyed and used while in stealth without breaking it?

Good question. Don't know. But I would assume if you can swap items/skills/CP while in stealth, then yes. It doesn't do anything you can't do in the menu. Less, actually, since in the menus you can add skill points to open new skills and add CP to open new stars - WW cannot do these things.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Can it be used in PvP zones? (Cause it really does annoy me that I can't use the armory station in BG's)

Yes. But it does not replace the armory station. If you want to swap from one build to another successfully, you need to have all the CPs, all the skills and all the gear from both setups open. It only swaps those things, it does not open them for you. It also cannot change your mundus, attributes, your curse, open any skills, assign new CP points anywhere. It only swaps existing available things to other things that you have prepared and pre-defined.

edit: in BGs... Like with any gear/skill swapping you must be out of combat. WW is not magic. It does not override any game mechanics. Same rules apply as manual swapping. If you can swap your setup manually, you can use WW. If you can't swap your setup manually, WW can't either. (But you can queue the swap. Hit a hot key while in combat and it does it for you once you are out of combat.)

Ah gotcha, was wondering moreso if it could be used to quickswap items and abilities between a brawling setup and single-target or a bomber build quickly while roaming IC in stealth. Sounds useful for ganking.

If you have all the abilities open for all the setups you want to use in WW, then yes, you can. But at least the brawler and bomber builds I make use different attributes, mundus, some morphs might be different, so I would need an armory for that.

But if you could swap the setup manually without opening new CP, without opening new skills, or changing morphs, using same mundus, etc. So what you could do in the menu (except open new CP or skills) you can do with WW. I do have some quick swaps in WW for some Cyro action. Like a scroll runner build so I can quickly swap to a fast build (without Steed, tho), pick up a scroll and then run like the wind.

And THAT, I do have a problem with, as it gives you a time and distance advantage over players not using the addon. Both of which are very important in PvP. (But also why I very well may download it for ganking purposes).

It's a free tool everyone has access to. If you CAN use a tool but chose not to it's not an unfair advantage if someone else does.

BahometZ · February 27

Man oh man, what a thread. [snip]
[edited for flaming]