Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 19
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• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 15:00 UTC (10:00AM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 19
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – January 21, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 15:00 UTC (10:00AM EST)
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 11.3.1 is available.
Cyrodiil Healing Nerf!!
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Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Just log on tonight and snipit your cmx what your average tick is. It can probably also show you that more than 6 of your group's vigors can be on you at once too.
My average tick from last night is 1.6k so 800 HPS.Alchimiste1 wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »@Teeba_Shei
You can spin it any way you want but we all know being able to stack 8+ echoings/ radiating is a problem.
Most players don’t stack 8+ echoings in real play, and even when it happens, it doesn’t make a group invincible. PUGs, solo players, and smaller coordinated teams do find ways to counter stacked heals and kill these players.
Correct, it's not just the stacking of 12x separate sticky HoTs contributing to 30k per second healing and 16k+ shielding from non-ultimates that can be refreshed every gcd. It's also the group being at movement speed cap that also makes them functionally invincible. The counter-play to excessive healing and shielding, is excessive numerical damage aka making their healthbars drop to zero... but everything that can deliver that, is at the mercy of the group moving as a unit, the speed of mach seven so none of this excessive damage can do any damage.
Lets do a little fact checking, you claimed that having 12 Echoing Vigors active at once results in 30,000 healing per second. Let’s check the math. The tooltip on one Echoing Vigor shows around 20,000 total healing over 16 seconds, which works out to 1,250 healing per second. If you apply a 55% reduction from battle spirit, that drops to 562.5 healing per second per cast. Even if you stacked 12 of them, the total healing per second would be 562.5 times 12, which equals 6,750 HPS. That’s nowhere near 30,000. In fact, the claim is more than four times too high.
This clearly proves that the person making the claim is completely misinformed. How can anyone take an opinion this blatantly wrong about the game’s most basic mechanics seriously, especially on a change this huge? Spouting numbers that are off by more than four times isn’t just a mistake—it’s recklessly misleading and undermines any real discussion about the game.
I'm not going to be including the cyrodil passive that increases healing by 20% when near a keep in these values because of course there are other factors which would make the final calculations a bit less in game so this will offset that.
Echoing: 23610/16 = 1475 hps
Radiating: 25170= 2517 hps
total: 3992
cyro healing debuff: -50% = 1996
12x for members= 23952 hps
BUT WAIT I have crit modifiers:
At 60% increased crit healing from modifiers like lucent that 23952 value goes up to 1.6* 23,952= 38,323 hps if everything crits.
Using a 30% crit chance (which is what I had on the build editor). and using a weighted average formula:
(23952*0.70) + (38,323*0.30) = 28,264 AVERAGE hps from 2 skills so . . .yeah.
values from the build editor which currently doesn't let me save builds, but you can recreate it yourself. Sets I put on the healer were powerful assault and lucent echos. 3x swift snow treaders 2x earthgore. And ofc I included buffs you would get from a ball group like major courage from olo etc.
This conversation is going in circles but you do not ever have 12x of either of those HOTs on you at any time no matter how good the players involved are.
The targeting mechanics of Vigor prevent that from being possible. Most players in this thread do not even know what those mechanics are which is why it is difficult to have these sorts of conversations.
It is considered to be exceptional play by a healer to maintain 60% uptime per target across all 12 players of a raid. For Radiating Regen, a much shorter HOT with 1/2 the targets hit per cast, that value is 40%. All players run Vigor but DDs no longer run Radiating as their back-option, which makes it a healer-exclusive skill.
So a ballgroup comprised of players with S-Tier casting mechanics, has, being generous, 8 stacks of Vigor and 3-4 stacks of Radiating on them. That is, a) too many, particularly of Vigor, but also, b) not at all close to 24 stacks of HOTs like is commonly portrayed.
That’s crazy because when I played in a group my uptimes DURING a fight were way higher than that on both.
Either way I was just using the set condition he put out which was multiplying by 12
Maintaining Vigor coverage becomes exponentially more difficult as you add more players to a group size. A group with 12 players is functionally impossible to maintain 100% uptime across all players.
Because the skill does not have a "smart" system for choosing targets at full health or even a proximity-based mechanism for selecting its targets (nearest-proximity is how abilities such as Scribing shields behave, which comes with its own set of issues for uptime).
If you have 12 players and loosely stack them and cast Vigor twice the Vigor will go the exact same 6 players both times, leaving the other 6 completely without the HOT. This situation will persist no matter how many times that you cast Vigor. You can spam it an infinite number of times but you will never, ever hit the other 6 targets.
Cyrodiil, and all locations in the game, are divided into invisible grid chunks for the purposes of the engine and this bears heavily upon how abilities such as heals select their targets. But, of course, the layperson in this thread thinks it's as simple as casting the skill twice and viola you maintain perfect coverage over an entire raid. I wish that it were that easy.
6 players is actually the ideal group size for maximizing Vigor uptime because it only takes one cast every 16 seconds to cover the entire group. If you compared the log results for a sweaty 6-man and a sweaty 12-man and both groups used Vigor, the 6-player group would have FAR better per player uptime (it would be 100%) vs. the 12-player group. A 12-player raid is fighting against game mechanics when it comes to HOTs whereas 6 players is embracing it.
I hope that this is helpful for any readers trying to better understand this issue as well as how the game actually works. A ballgroup healer does not simply roll their face on the keyboard and mystically achieve CHIM, as is commonly portrayed, and it really weakens anyone's argument when they traffic in those sorts of uninformed exaggerations.
This is 100% true. And this is why ballgroups also spam 16k shields and move at mach 7 speed with impunity. Or are we going to actually convince ourselves here that survivability is rough out there? Really now. This is what these arguments all devolve into. We're going to convince ourselves that stacking group buff sets, moving at mach 7, stacking hots and shielding, and using rush of agony is the pinnacle of organized group composition. Everyone who disagrees is just a bad lazy player and we are bad for being disorganized and how dare we not be in a ballgroup.
Like what are we even doing here right now?7 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Just log on tonight and snipit your cmx what your average tick is. It can probably also show you that more than 6 of your group's vigors can be on you at once too.
My average tick from last night is 1.6k so 800 HPS.Alchimiste1 wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »@Teeba_Shei
You can spin it any way you want but we all know being able to stack 8+ echoings/ radiating is a problem.
Most players don’t stack 8+ echoings in real play, and even when it happens, it doesn’t make a group invincible. PUGs, solo players, and smaller coordinated teams do find ways to counter stacked heals and kill these players.
Correct, it's not just the stacking of 12x separate sticky HoTs contributing to 30k per second healing and 16k+ shielding from non-ultimates that can be refreshed every gcd. It's also the group being at movement speed cap that also makes them functionally invincible. The counter-play to excessive healing and shielding, is excessive numerical damage aka making their healthbars drop to zero... but everything that can deliver that, is at the mercy of the group moving as a unit, the speed of mach seven so none of this excessive damage can do any damage.
Lets do a little fact checking, you claimed that having 12 Echoing Vigors active at once results in 30,000 healing per second. Let’s check the math. The tooltip on one Echoing Vigor shows around 20,000 total healing over 16 seconds, which works out to 1,250 healing per second. If you apply a 55% reduction from battle spirit, that drops to 562.5 healing per second per cast. Even if you stacked 12 of them, the total healing per second would be 562.5 times 12, which equals 6,750 HPS. That’s nowhere near 30,000. In fact, the claim is more than four times too high.
This clearly proves that the person making the claim is completely misinformed. How can anyone take an opinion this blatantly wrong about the game’s most basic mechanics seriously, especially on a change this huge? Spouting numbers that are off by more than four times isn’t just a mistake—it’s recklessly misleading and undermines any real discussion about the game.
I'm not going to be including the cyrodil passive that increases healing by 20% when near a keep in these values because of course there are other factors which would make the final calculations a bit less in game so this will offset that.
Echoing: 23610/16 = 1475 hps
Radiating: 25170= 2517 hps
total: 3992
cyro healing debuff: -50% = 1996
12x for members= 23952 hps
BUT WAIT I have crit modifiers:
At 60% increased crit healing from modifiers like lucent that 23952 value goes up to 1.6* 23,952= 38,323 hps if everything crits.
Using a 30% crit chance (which is what I had on the build editor). and using a weighted average formula:
(23952*0.70) + (38,323*0.30) = 28,264 AVERAGE hps from 2 skills so . . .yeah.
values from the build editor which currently doesn't let me save builds, but you can recreate it yourself. Sets I put on the healer were powerful assault and lucent echos. 3x swift snow treaders 2x earthgore. And ofc I included buffs you would get from a ball group like major courage from olo etc.
This conversation is going in circles but you do not ever have 12x of either of those HOTs on you at any time no matter how good the players involved are.
The targeting mechanics of Vigor prevent that from being possible. Most players in this thread do not even know what those mechanics are which is why it is difficult to have these sorts of conversations.
It is considered to be exceptional play by a healer to maintain 60% uptime per target across all 12 players of a raid. For Radiating Regen, a much shorter HOT with 1/2 the targets hit per cast, that value is 40%. All players run Vigor but DDs no longer run Radiating as their back-option, which makes it a healer-exclusive skill.
So a ballgroup comprised of players with S-Tier casting mechanics, has, being generous, 8 stacks of Vigor and 3-4 stacks of Radiating on them. That is, a) too many, particularly of Vigor, but also, b) not at all close to 24 stacks of HOTs like is commonly portrayed.
That’s crazy because when I played in a group my uptimes DURING a fight were way higher than that on both.
Either way I was just using the set condition he put out which was multiplying by 12
Maintaining Vigor coverage becomes exponentially more difficult as you add more players to a group size. A group with 12 players is functionally impossible to maintain 100% uptime across all players.
Because the skill does not have a "smart" system for choosing targets at full health or even a proximity-based mechanism for selecting its targets (nearest-proximity is how abilities such as Scribing shields behave, which comes with its own set of issues for uptime).
If you have 12 players and loosely stack them and cast Vigor twice the Vigor will go the exact same 6 players both times, leaving the other 6 completely without the HOT. This situation will persist no matter how many times that you cast Vigor. You can spam it an infinite number of times but you will never, ever hit the other 6 targets.
Cyrodiil, and all locations in the game, are divided into invisible grid chunks for the purposes of the engine and this bears heavily upon how abilities such as heals select their targets. But, of course, the layperson in this thread thinks it's as simple as casting the skill twice and viola you maintain perfect coverage over an entire raid. I wish that it were that easy.
6 players is actually the ideal group size for maximizing Vigor uptime because it only takes one cast every 16 seconds to cover the entire group. If you compared the log results for a sweaty 6-man and a sweaty 12-man and both groups used Vigor, the 6-player group would have FAR better per player uptime (it would be 100%) vs. the 12-player group. A 12-player raid is fighting against game mechanics when it comes to HOTs whereas 6 players is embracing it.
I hope that this is helpful for any readers trying to better understand this issue as well as how the game actually works. A ballgroup healer does not simply roll their face on the keyboard and mystically achieve CHIM, as is commonly portrayed, and it really weakens anyone's argument when they traffic in those sorts of uninformed exaggerations.
I think that the people who know my game account name would agree I'm a pretty decent healer, I 100% endorse the statement that 60% per-target uptime on Vigor is exceptional.
People don't realize that you can even miss yourself with your own Echoing Vigor if someone with a lower relative health percentage "steals" the targeting. If you don't intentionally position yourself to miss the 6 targets you hit with the first cast, then just like you said, all casting it again will do is refresh it on the people you got the first time (including the possibility of missing yourself again...). Vigor's targeting is actually pants-on-head insane.
Again why not push zos to make echo a 12 man oriented skill or even a 10 man oriented skill. QoL and less reliance on spam inevitably would be better for the server anyways.
Then just have resolving go back to a 4 man oriented skill that is much tigher radius.
I would love if Echoing Vigor had Rallying Cry like inverse scaling with the number of people hit, provided it had sane targeting that preferred your group members first.
Nah that would probably cause excess load. Otherwise if it could be performative yeah thatd be nice.Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Artisian0001 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »
No, none of this is helpful because you have zero claim to non-bias on this issue. Just a couple of weeks ago we watched you get caught on your horse on your way to Blackboot and after getting hit you just stood there and healed and blocked through all of the damage that 5 or 6 veteran Cyrodiil players all glass cannons spec'd into damage, pen and crit could hit you with - everything they had - until they just got bored and annoyed and just walked away because your build does nothing but abuse the terrible state of healing, shields and mitigation that is currently the meta in Cyrodiil.YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I hope that this is helpful for any readers trying to better understand this issue as well as how the game actually works. A ballgroup healer does not simply roll their face on the keyboard and mystically achieve CHIM, as is commonly portrayed, and it really weakens anyone's argument when they traffic in those sorts of uninformed exaggerations.
You have no credibility because you take abusive advantage of this meta so of course you want nothing changed. You're part of the problem, not the solution.
Lol to this, also funny because you could say the same thing about people fully speccing into crit are abusing the current state of the meta. As it stands we have nearly double the sources of crit damage and even less crit resistance than before. Still waiting on zos to add that crit resist mundus. Or bake the crit resist cp into a nonslottable bonus. Or maybe add more crit resist 2-4 piece bonuses onto clearly designed pvp gear sets.
What do you think would be a good value for a crit resist mundus?
Depends, but standard wise it would be 1309...........238wdmundus*1650cr5piece/300wd5piece = 1309
Or do you try to meet the old game balance before zos messed with impen and forgot it. Then youd need to break the standard and temporarily increase the current crit resist values until you add more build choice sources. Then dilute it back out to when it can then be the proper standard value.
Shouldn't it be the equal and opposite version of the crit damage mundus?
Well the shadow mundus doesn't exactly follow the standard (neither does the regen mundus) which again doesn't help the whole notion of there are too many sources of crit damage. Proportionally if we said shadow was correct it would mean that a crit damage+healing 5 piece bonus would be 13.86% flat. However we know gourmand conditionally is 13% so an unconditional should be less. Considering the 1309cr based on the wd standard comes out to 19.8%cr it would make more sense for shadow to be 10% instead of 11%
Really zos needs to do a pass on the mundus balance, because it does not match their 2-4piece or 5 piece standard at all.
Zos could do the same on food/drink to give us more options build wise.I only use insightful1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just remove Combat Medic and be done with it. I'm incredibly surprised they never tried to change this passive. If healing away from a keep is balanced, then when you move to keep battles, healing is suddenly overtuned.
Edited by Teeba_Shei on January 16, 2026 12:11AM5 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »Just remove Combat Medic and be done with it. I'm incredibly surprised they never tried to change this passive. If healing away from a keep is balanced, then when you move to keep battles, healing is suddenly overtuned.
Yeah tbh even just the consistency of combat why boost healing where we know fights might stagnate the most?I only use insightful4 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »Just remove Combat Medic and be done with it. I'm incredibly surprised they never tried to change this passive. If healing away from a keep is balanced, then when you move to keep battles, healing is suddenly overtuned.
Yeah tbh even just the consistency of combat why boost healing where we know fights might stagnate the most?
My idea has the added benefit of reducing lag. Probably...3 -
Wolfshade✭✭✭✭✭
✭Overall good ideas and better solutions than provided. After all, the year has started not so bad. Cyro is actually full, even on PC EU at prime time on all Alliances, so pls dont make ZOS-Things.1 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »Just remove Combat Medic and be done with it. I'm incredibly surprised they never tried to change this passive. If healing away from a keep is balanced, then when you move to keep battles, healing is suddenly overtuned.
Yeah tbh even just the consistency of combat why boost healing where we know fights might stagnate the most?
My idea has the added benefit of reducing lag. Probably...
Idk its better than the theory of putting a "." in your guild roster search to reduce updating
Should we ping Gina and let her know we are in agreement after 20 pages of arguing nonsense thatll never change?Edited by MincMincMinc on January 16, 2026 12:41AMI only use insightful1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »Just remove Combat Medic and be done with it. I'm incredibly surprised they never tried to change this passive. If healing away from a keep is balanced, then when you move to keep battles, healing is suddenly overtuned.
Yeah tbh even just the consistency of combat why boost healing where we know fights might stagnate the most?
My idea has the added benefit of reducing lag. Probably...
Idk its better than the theory of putting a "." in your guild roster search to reduce updating
Should we ping Gina and let her know we are in agreement after 20 pages of arguing nonsense thatll never change?
yeah you can let gina know we fixed it2 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I hope that this is helpful for any readers trying to better understand this issue as well as how the game actually works. A ballgroup healer does not simply roll their face on the keyboard and mystically achieve CHIM, as is commonly portrayed, and it really weakens anyone's argument when they traffic in those sorts of uninformed exaggerations.
Argument for what? Spending an hour or less in Cyrodiil it's very easy to see how out of whack the balance of power is between casuals, solos, groups and ball groups. Your posts kind of suggest we're dumb for not agreeing with you. Yeah, we know healing is difficult and placement is important. Yeah, we know that. Right yeah, the ball groups fight game mechanics. They fight the game's engine to get every last bit of power possible out of it, so they don't have to fight players.
If you want to us understand where you're coming from about how hard life is for a ball group healer, can you understand the fact that the things which normally affect everyday players, don't work on a ball group at all. Snares, immobilizers, ok maybe they might work against 1 or 2 once in a while, but that's the problem. No one needs to be that special to move that fast, heal so strongly and be unbeatable. Again, I don't need to be an expert healer to see kill logs, hundreds of dead players over an hour or so and a ball group has yet to lose one person. No casualties to speak of and they still going strong. Seriously, why is that so hard to understand?
Yeah, uh the ball group healer's having a rough day, well having a rough day pales in comparison to wiping entire factions consistently. Wiping entire servers, tying everyone up for hours while presumably one of your groups has yet to suffer one casualty and everyone else is dead. Talk about a rough day. My goodness. How do you think those folks feel having their time wasted in PvP? How would you feel?Edited by Vulkunne on January 16, 2026 1:56AM"Today Victory is mine. Long Live the Empire." - Grand Admiral Vulkunne8 -
Stridig✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I hope that this is helpful for any readers trying to better understand this issue as well as how the game actually works. A ballgroup healer does not simply roll their face on the keyboard and mystically achieve CHIM, as is commonly portrayed, and it really weakens anyone's argument when they traffic in those sorts of uninformed exaggerations.
Argument for what? Spending an hour or less in Cyrodiil it's very easy to see how out of whack the balance of power is between casuals, solos, groups and ball groups. Your posts kind of suggest we're dumb for not agreeing with you. Yeah, we know healing is difficult and placement is important. Yeah, we know that. Right yeah, the ball groups fight game mechanics. They fight the game's engine to get every last bit of power possible out of it, so they don't have to fight players.
If you want to us understand where you're coming from about how hard life is for a ball group healer, can you understand the fact that the things which normally affect everyday players, don't work on a ball group at all. Snares, immobilizers, ok maybe they might work against 1 or 2 once in a while, but that's the problem. No one needs to be that special to move that fast, heal so strongly and be unbeatable. Again, I don't need to be an expert healer to see kill logs, hundreds of dead players over an hour or so and a ball group has yet to lose one person. No casualties to speak of and they still going strong. Seriously, why is that so hard to understand?
Yeah, uh the ball group healer's having a rough day, well having a rough day pales in comparison to wiping entire factions -consistently-. Wiping entire servers, tying everyone up for hours while presumably one of your groups has yet to suffer one casualty and everyone else is dead. Talk about a rough day. My goodness. How do you think those folks feel having their time wasted in PvP? How would you feel?
Agreed. People should totally be able to slap Spriggans, Bone Pirate, and Chudan on their pure class Stamplar, solo zerg surf, and expect to be competitive. Because that's what PvP is all about. No effort, no coordination, no problem.Enemy to many
Friend to all5 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I hope that this is helpful for any readers trying to better understand this issue as well as how the game actually works. A ballgroup healer does not simply roll their face on the keyboard and mystically achieve CHIM, as is commonly portrayed, and it really weakens anyone's argument when they traffic in those sorts of uninformed exaggerations.
Argument for what? Spending an hour or less in Cyrodiil it's very easy to see how out of whack the balance of power is between casuals, solos, groups and ball groups. Your posts kind of suggest we're dumb for not agreeing with you. Yeah, we know healing is difficult and placement is important. Yeah, we know that. Right yeah, the ball groups fight game mechanics. They fight the game's engine to get every last bit of power possible out of it, so they don't have to fight players.
If you want to us understand where you're coming from about how hard life is for a ball group healer, can you understand the fact that the things which normally affect everyday players, don't work on a ball group at all. Snares, immobilizers, ok maybe they might work against 1 or 2 once in a while, but that's the problem. No one needs to be that special to move that fast, heal so strongly and be unbeatable. Again, I don't need to be an expert healer to see kill logs, hundreds of dead players over an hour or so and a ball group has yet to lose one person. No casualties to speak of and they still going strong. Seriously, why is that so hard to understand?
Yeah, uh the ball group healer's having a rough day, well having a rough day pales in comparison to wiping entire factions -consistently-. Wiping entire servers, tying everyone up for hours while presumably one of your groups has yet to suffer one casualty and everyone else is dead. Talk about a rough day. My goodness. How do you think those folks feel having their time wasted in PvP? How would you feel?
Agreed. People should totally be able to slap Spriggans, Bone Pirate, and Chudan on their pure class Stamplar, solo zerg surf, and expect to be competitive. Because that's what PvP is all about. No effort, no coordination, no problem.
That's how we did it for years before these ball groups and bombers became such a common thing. No reason it should not work now. And if otherwise then not only why have old set but why introduce new ones? Fixing healing is just the beginning.Edited by Vulkunne on January 16, 2026 2:14AM"Today Victory is mine. Long Live the Empire." - Grand Admiral Vulkunne6 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I hope that this is helpful for any readers trying to better understand this issue as well as how the game actually works. A ballgroup healer does not simply roll their face on the keyboard and mystically achieve CHIM, as is commonly portrayed, and it really weakens anyone's argument when they traffic in those sorts of uninformed exaggerations.
Argument for what? Spending an hour or less in Cyrodiil it's very easy to see how out of whack the balance of power is between casuals, solos, groups and ball groups. Your posts kind of suggest we're dumb for not agreeing with you. Yeah, we know healing is difficult and placement is important. Yeah, we know that. Right yeah, the ball groups fight game mechanics. They fight the game's engine to get every last bit of power possible out of it, so they don't have to fight players.
If you want to us understand where you're coming from about how hard life is for a ball group healer, can you understand the fact that the things which normally affect everyday players, don't work on a ball group at all. Snares, immobilizers, ok maybe they might work against 1 or 2 once in a while, but that's the problem. No one needs to be that special to move that fast, heal so strongly and be unbeatable. Again, I don't need to be an expert healer to see kill logs, hundreds of dead players over an hour or so and a ball group has yet to lose one person. No casualties to speak of and they still going strong. Seriously, why is that so hard to understand?
Yeah, uh the ball group healer's having a rough day, well having a rough day pales in comparison to wiping entire factions -consistently-. Wiping entire servers, tying everyone up for hours while presumably one of your groups has yet to suffer one casualty and everyone else is dead. Talk about a rough day. My goodness. How do you think those folks feel having their time wasted in PvP? How would you feel?
Agreed. People should totally be able to slap Spriggans, Bone Pirate, and Chudan on their pure class Stamplar, solo zerg surf, and expect to be competitive. Because that's what PvP is all about. No effort, no coordination, no problem.
Exactly. Coordinated and high level play is all about stacking same group meta sets, same stacking HoTs and shieldings, moving at mach 7 speed with same group speed buff with ease, and GvGing each other into perpeutal stalemates or running around a keep for 30 minutes rush of agony warden charm bombing 2s and 4s at a time.
This is the only way to play cyrodiil, anyone running spriggans and wretched vitality are lazy and it is paramount that organized and skillful ballgroup play do not get any nerfs since with enough overwhelming pug support ballgroups can actually be wiped. Since ballgroups put in all the effort of farming pve trial sets for their pvp group buffs, and rush of agony and are in voice comms, it's only natural that they achieve invulnerability to fight such odds. It's not easy at all, we are all just salty and lazy that our 2pc chudan 1vX builds can't 1v12 them. Maybe we are wrong. Instead of looking at how to address heal stacking, maybe it's time we just admit we are all the problem for complaining and being uncoordinated?3 -
Al_Ex_Andre✭✭✭
This.MincMincMinc wrote: »Yeah this is madness. So now if a random proc healer runs by you and slaps on hots, now your own healing is going to be gutted. Cant wait to be 1vXing and the most dangerous part is when a random teammate shows up trying to heal me thinking he is helping but instead cuts my healing by 50%.
Should be: The third and further HoT have no effects.
Better than being pusnished with healing. DO we need to punish healers now?
1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Just log on tonight and snipit your cmx what your average tick is. It can probably also show you that more than 6 of your group's vigors can be on you at once too.
My average tick from last night is 1.6k so 800 HPS.Alchimiste1 wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »@Teeba_Shei
You can spin it any way you want but we all know being able to stack 8+ echoings/ radiating is a problem.
Most players don’t stack 8+ echoings in real play, and even when it happens, it doesn’t make a group invincible. PUGs, solo players, and smaller coordinated teams do find ways to counter stacked heals and kill these players.
Correct, it's not just the stacking of 12x separate sticky HoTs contributing to 30k per second healing and 16k+ shielding from non-ultimates that can be refreshed every gcd. It's also the group being at movement speed cap that also makes them functionally invincible. The counter-play to excessive healing and shielding, is excessive numerical damage aka making their healthbars drop to zero... but everything that can deliver that, is at the mercy of the group moving as a unit, the speed of mach seven so none of this excessive damage can do any damage.
Lets do a little fact checking, you claimed that having 12 Echoing Vigors active at once results in 30,000 healing per second. Let’s check the math. The tooltip on one Echoing Vigor shows around 20,000 total healing over 16 seconds, which works out to 1,250 healing per second. If you apply a 55% reduction from battle spirit, that drops to 562.5 healing per second per cast. Even if you stacked 12 of them, the total healing per second would be 562.5 times 12, which equals 6,750 HPS. That’s nowhere near 30,000. In fact, the claim is more than four times too high.
This clearly proves that the person making the claim is completely misinformed. How can anyone take an opinion this blatantly wrong about the game’s most basic mechanics seriously, especially on a change this huge? Spouting numbers that are off by more than four times isn’t just a mistake—it’s recklessly misleading and undermines any real discussion about the game.
I'm not going to be including the cyrodil passive that increases healing by 20% when near a keep in these values because of course there are other factors which would make the final calculations a bit less in game so this will offset that.
Echoing: 23610/16 = 1475 hps
Radiating: 25170= 2517 hps
total: 3992
cyro healing debuff: -50% = 1996
12x for members= 23952 hps
BUT WAIT I have crit modifiers:
At 60% increased crit healing from modifiers like lucent that 23952 value goes up to 1.6* 23,952= 38,323 hps if everything crits.
Using a 30% crit chance (which is what I had on the build editor). and using a weighted average formula:
(23952*0.70) + (38,323*0.30) = 28,264 AVERAGE hps from 2 skills so . . .yeah.
values from the build editor which currently doesn't let me save builds, but you can recreate it yourself. Sets I put on the healer were powerful assault and lucent echos. 3x swift snow treaders 2x earthgore. And ofc I included buffs you would get from a ball group like major courage from olo etc.
This conversation is going in circles but you do not ever have 12x of either of those HOTs on you at any time no matter how good the players involved are.
The targeting mechanics of Vigor prevent that from being possible. Most players in this thread do not even know what those mechanics are which is why it is difficult to have these sorts of conversations.
It is considered to be exceptional play by a healer to maintain 60% uptime per target across all 12 players of a raid. For Radiating Regen, a much shorter HOT with 1/2 the targets hit per cast, that value is 40%. All players run Vigor but DDs no longer run Radiating as their back-option, which makes it a healer-exclusive skill.
So a ballgroup comprised of players with S-Tier casting mechanics, has, being generous, 8 stacks of Vigor and 3-4 stacks of Radiating on them. That is, a) too many, particularly of Vigor, but also, b) not at all close to 24 stacks of HOTs like is commonly portrayed.
That’s crazy because when I played in a group my uptimes DURING a fight were way higher than that on both.
Either way I was just using the set condition he put out which was multiplying by 12
Maintaining Vigor coverage becomes exponentially more difficult as you add more players to a group size. A group with 12 players is functionally impossible to maintain 100% uptime across all players.
Because the skill does not have a "smart" system for choosing targets at full health or even a proximity-based mechanism for selecting its targets (nearest-proximity is how abilities such as Scribing shields behave, which comes with its own set of issues for uptime).
If you have 12 players and loosely stack them and cast Vigor twice the Vigor will go the exact same 6 players both times, leaving the other 6 completely without the HOT. This situation will persist no matter how many times that you cast Vigor. You can spam it an infinite number of times but you will never, ever hit the other 6 targets.
Cyrodiil, and all locations in the game, are divided into invisible grid chunks for the purposes of the engine and this bears heavily upon how abilities such as heals select their targets. But, of course, the layperson in this thread thinks it's as simple as casting the skill twice and viola you maintain perfect coverage over an entire raid. I wish that it were that easy.
6 players is actually the ideal group size for maximizing Vigor uptime because it only takes one cast every 16 seconds to cover the entire group. If you compared the log results for a sweaty 6-man and a sweaty 12-man and both groups used Vigor, the 6-player group would have FAR better per player uptime (it would be 100%) vs. the 12-player group. A 12-player raid is fighting against game mechanics when it comes to HOTs whereas 6 players is embracing it.
I hope that this is helpful for any readers trying to better understand this issue as well as how the game actually works. A ballgroup healer does not simply roll their face on the keyboard and mystically achieve CHIM, as is commonly portrayed, and it really weakens anyone's argument when they traffic in those sorts of uninformed exaggerations.
This is 100% true. And this is why ballgroups also spam 16k shields and move at mach 7 speed with impunity. Or are we going to actually convince ourselves here that survivability is rough out there? Really now. This is what these arguments all devolve into. We're going to convince ourselves that stacking group buff sets, moving at mach 7, stacking hots and shielding, and using rush of agony is the pinnacle of organized group composition. Everyone who disagrees is just a bad lazy player and we are bad for being disorganized and how dare we not be in a ballgroup.
Like what are we even doing here right now?
Don't get lost in the sauce.
I'm the one advocating for the hardest possible nerf to sticky HOT stacking (literally abolishing it). I'm also advocating very hard against my own self-interest as a ballgrouper.
Exaggeration and making outlandish and like very demonstrably incorrect and disprovable claims (e.g. "24 stacks of HOTs!") about ballgroups DOES NOT help the cause. It just makes people making those claims look uninformed. And it is easy to write-off the opinions of the uninformed, because, at the end of the day, those arguments boil down more to vibes than the actual truth of the situation. And we don't want vibes-based rule changes.
Shields are 100% an item on the to-do list of things to balance. But that isn't what is under discussion right now.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I hope that this is helpful for any readers trying to better understand this issue as well as how the game actually works. A ballgroup healer does not simply roll their face on the keyboard and mystically achieve CHIM, as is commonly portrayed, and it really weakens anyone's argument when they traffic in those sorts of uninformed exaggerations.
Argument for what? Spending an hour or less in Cyrodiil it's very easy to see how out of whack the balance of power is between casuals, solos, groups and ball groups. Your posts kind of suggest we're dumb for not agreeing with you. Yeah, we know healing is difficult and placement is important. Yeah, we know that. Right yeah, the ball groups fight game mechanics. They fight the game's engine to get every last bit of power possible out of it, so they don't have to fight players.
If you want to us understand where you're coming from about how hard life is for a ball group healer, can you understand the fact that the things which normally affect everyday players, don't work on a ball group at all. Snares, immobilizers, ok maybe they might work against 1 or 2 once in a while, but that's the problem. No one needs to be that special to move that fast, heal so strongly and be unbeatable. Again, I don't need to be an expert healer to see kill logs, hundreds of dead players over an hour or so and a ball group has yet to lose one person. No casualties to speak of and they still going strong. Seriously, why is that so hard to understand?
Yeah, uh the ball group healer's having a rough day, well having a rough day pales in comparison to wiping entire factions consistently. Wiping entire servers, tying everyone up for hours while presumably one of your groups has yet to suffer one casualty and everyone else is dead. Talk about a rough day. My goodness. How do you think those folks feel having their time wasted in PvP? How would you feel?
That was hilarious, but in all seriousness, it already feels unfair when I 1vX several pugs and see them hopelessly try to put a dent in my health. I can't imagine what it's like to face a ball group as an average pug.
Imagine seeing this massive blob of health bars closing in on you fast, then 1 second later you're dead without knowing why. You open your death recap and see 5 burst abilities, completely dumbfounded because you never saw those abilities casted inside that big blob of players. Then you spend the next 4 minutes staring at the screen and seeing your teammates get dumpstered the same way you did, while waiting for a rez that may or may not come. Heck, if you're lucky you'd get some out of pocket tbag from a troll in another faction. Might as well grab a beer and relax for the night cause let's be real, that's how you're gonna spend your Cyrodiil session for the next few hours while that ball group is still online.
Totally fun for the average pug!Edited by hoangdz on January 16, 2026 6:52AM2 -
Fruity_Ninja✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone,
First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.
That’s disappointing that this is totally reverted.
It was the right idea, it just needed a tweak in execution I.e. only affects HOTs but not burst heals.
That in itself would have made a great addition and improvement to Cyro.
I’m not sure why there are such a large portion of ESO PVPers that can’t deal with the concept of dying. They love hiding behind excessive health, tanky builds, excessive healing and big groups. PVP is supposed to have a reasonable TTK, not endless fights.
@ZOS_GinaBruno while you guys contemplate another iteration of a healing change, can you please consider a cap on health (30-35k max). That would also be great for the health of PVP.
Edited by Fruity_Ninja on January 16, 2026 7:08AM2 -
Artisian0001✭✭✭✭People not realizing ballgroups do more shielding than healingFruity_Ninja wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone,
First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.
That’s disappointing that this is totally reverted.
It was the right idea, it just needed a tweak in execution I.e. only affects HOTs but not burst heals.
That in itself would have made a great addition and improvement to Cyro.
I’m not sure why there are such a large portion of ESO PVPers that can’t deal with the concept of dying. They love hiding behind excessive health, tanky builds, excessive healing and big groups. PVP is supposed to have a reasonable TTK, not endless fights.
@ZOS_GinaBruno while you guys contemplate another iteration of a healing change, can you please consider a cap on health (30-35k max). That would also be great for the health of PVP.
I disagree with the concept of an HP cap in PvP, it would make emp less worth it, as well as several ults. The scaling value of shields should be lower, you shouldn't be able to stack HP and then give your team a giant shield, its counter intuitive.
Most players who don't do any sort of coordinated PvP don't realize healing isn't even the problem, I know that's a wild concept, but shielding is always higher on the logs. The amount of shielding people can spit out is insane. and it effectively increases your HP to over 75k in some instances.
Shields should be hard capped at 20k on a person at all times in PvP. as well as scale worse with HP as I already stated, anyone who has seen a coordinated 12 man logs knows shields are worse than healing, and I already showed the math for healing in real combat scenarios.
Nerf healing by 10% and nerf shielding even further by capping the amount you can have on you to 20k, and reduce the HP scaling and cyro is in a better spot.3 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭I want to add one last thing before I leave this thread, I’ve seen a lot of claims that these ball-group complaints are unfounded and that people who have them don’t know how Cyrodiil functions, well…
2017 Emperor was the most competitive I have ever seen Cyrodiil, as it was a PvP patch, and with the diminished population everyone thought they had a chance so they all fought like everything was on the line.
You needed serious coordination to pull it off back then, not this child’s play found in the Ball Groups of present. Back then you distinguished yourself as a group by making plays, not by having your sets and mythics stack up and accelerate your group past everyone.
Which is the main problem…
What we had before was skill expression.
I would present montages of my gameplay taking over Almalexia but Xbox deletes clips after 90 days, so feel free to cross-reference any of Fengrush’s old Cyrodiil clips and see what I mean, his DC group was aspirational, modern streams don’t look like that, and it’s part of the reason they’re not popular.
Nobody wants to watch people auto-pilot around a keep rotating their abilities.
This isn’t to say that it is always like this, when Ball Groups clash even today, it is still exciting, and that level of strategy reintroduces itself, but that happens what, like once a night? Maybe?
People who play in Ball Groups these days claim to like competition, if skill expression played a larger role in the overall experience of playing in a group that size, you would see so many of us come out of the shadows and restore our groups of old to give you that challenge.Edited by Radiate77 on January 16, 2026 10:31AM2 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have removed some insulting back and forth that was disruptive. Please ensure you are treating others with respect on the forums even when they have views that differ from your own.
The Elder Scrolls Online Team1 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »Just remove Combat Medic and be done with it. I'm incredibly surprised they never tried to change this passive. If healing away from a keep is balanced, then when you move to keep battles, healing is suddenly overtuned.
@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno Heal cut argument result.
After 20 pages of brutal probably TOS boundary arguments I think some of us actually came to an agreement. Remove the combat medic passive. There is no reason to boost heals in keeps, where we know fights might stagnate on the server and linger on and on causing lag.
If anything we can take out one small part of an equation that adds to the lag. We obviously can't find the silver bullet and likely you need to start taking smaller wins. This wont completely fix the STACKING issue of hots, but atleast cuts into the overhealing in keep fights. Honestly the only way to deal with stacking is change gamerules for all hots/dots or change how individual skills function.Edited by MincMincMinc on January 16, 2026 1:16PMI only use insightful1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m not actually sure that healing is what’s causing the issue. I think it might be solely shields at this point. You can see groups running around with 60k shields constantly. There really should be a 55% max-health shield nerf on all shield skills, including ultimates, in Cyrodiil.
This would mean that if you had 40k HP and cast a Barrier with a tooltip of 50k, you would only get a shield of 22k. You should probably only be able to have the largest shield effect active at any given time. For example, if you already had a Barrier and someone cast Contingency, you shouldn’t gain any additional shields.
People can have Barriers with tooltips of around 30k AFTER Battle Spirit, while healing abilities like Soul Tether have a tooltip of 14k burst healing followed by 35k HoT healing BEFORE Battle Spirit. A lot of this healing can be wasted, but with Barriers you instantly gain that value as effective HP. The effectiveness between these two abilities is staggering.
This leads to people walking around with 100k effective HP. Shielding is simply too strong for ball groups.Edited by Teeba_Shei on January 16, 2026 1:37PM3 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »I’m not actually sure that healing is what’s causing the issue. I think it might be solely shields at this point. You can see groups running around with 55k shields constantly. There really should be a 55% max-health shield nerf on all shield skills, including ultimates, in Cyrodiil.
This would mean that if you had 40k HP and cast a Barrier with a tooltip of 50k, you would only get a shield of 22k. You should probably only be able to have the largest shield effect active at any given time. For example, if you already had a Barrier and someone cast Contingency, you shouldn’t gain any additional shields.
That brings us to another issue in the game everyone at this point has given up on max stats and just stacks HP. We are even incentivized with triglyphs and hybridization to do so. Most solo build setups land you with 30-45khp which is wild.
Hard to bring tension back to max stat capacity sustain when we have so many sources of regen and return now available to us.- Gold regen foods didnt help
- Major/minor getting boosted up to 30%/15% didnt help
- Some 1 pieces doing two lines of regen didnt help
- Jewelry enchants getting extra regen didnt help
- Red tree cp doesnt help
- Movement speed being double what it used to doesnt help
- snowtreaders not requiring you to sprint for the immunity doesnt help
- Subclassing surely didnt help
- Sets like wretched giving 780 regen 100% uptime......which regen is supposed to be a 1:1 trade with wd as the standard. Yet most WD procs only give 450 with a 66% uptime
Edited by MincMincMinc on January 16, 2026 1:43PMI only use insightful0 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »[*] Movement speed being double what it used to doesnt help
Movement is not double what it used to be. They added a movement speed cap and nerfed a lot of movement speed abilities and potions. It used to be super easy, as a solo player, to have 100% uptime on Major Expedition, and it gave 40% movement speed. They actually toned movement down after that because players were moving so fast that they couldn’t hit each other.
It used to be so fast that I could actually outrun players who were sprinting on mounts.Edited by Teeba_Shei on January 16, 2026 1:43PM1 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »[*] Movement speed being double what it used to doesnt help
Movement is not double what it used to be. They added a movement speed cap and nerfed a lot of movement speed abilities and potions. It used to be super easy, as a solo player, to have 100% uptime on Major Expedition, and it gave 40% movement speed. They actually toned movement down after that because players were moving so fast that they couldn’t hit each other.
It used to be so fast that I could actually outrun players who were sprinting on mounts.
Well it all changed in summerset when they released 10% swift jewelry. Prior to that the average player was at 100% movement speed with maybe 30% major. Then people had 60% suddenly and instead of zos adjusting the speeds buffs down they just adjusted the uptimes of major and snare immunities. So after that the game started feeling like this drag racing "redlight greenlight" type game.
Most solo and BG setups land at 150-200% movement speed without sprint. Yet back then you'd be at 130% on nonstamsorc builds. So I say doubling buffs because +30% to +75%ish. Way more sources in everyday builds were added, but they should have reduced values more to keep the same average speeds.
Even further back yeah there were the uncapped scroll run build days, but on a normal functional combat build you wouldnt have speed 5 pieces on. Back then I am pretty sure the basespeed was actually 90% too because there used to be the 10% speed loss when you unsheathe your weapon.Edited by MincMincMinc on January 16, 2026 2:05PMI only use insightful1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »[*] Movement speed being double what it used to doesnt help
Movement is not double what it used to be. They added a movement speed cap and nerfed a lot of movement speed abilities and potions. It used to be super easy, as a solo player, to have 100% uptime on Major Expedition, and it gave 40% movement speed. They actually toned movement down after that because players were moving so fast that they couldn’t hit each other.
It used to be so fast that I could actually outrun players who were sprinting on mounts.
Well it all changed in summerset when they released 10% swift jewelry. Prior to that the average player was at 100% movement speed with maybe 30% major. Then people had 60% suddenly and instead of zos adjusting the speeds buffs down they just adjusted the uptimes of major and snare immunities. So after that the game started feeling like this drag racing "redlight greenlight" type game.
Most solo and BG setups land at 150-200% movement speed without sprint. Yet back then you'd be at 130% on nonstamsorc builds. So I say doubling buffs because +30% to +75%ish. Way more sources in everyday builds were added, but they should have reduced values more to keep the same average speeds.
Even further back yeah there were the uncapped scroll run build days, but on a normal functional combat build you wouldnt have speed 5 pieces on.
I can't spend my entire day on here fact checking you. Major expedition from potions was 40% not 30%.0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »[*] Movement speed being double what it used to doesnt help
Movement is not double what it used to be. They added a movement speed cap and nerfed a lot of movement speed abilities and potions. It used to be super easy, as a solo player, to have 100% uptime on Major Expedition, and it gave 40% movement speed. They actually toned movement down after that because players were moving so fast that they couldn’t hit each other.
It used to be so fast that I could actually outrun players who were sprinting on mounts.
Well it all changed in summerset when they released 10% swift jewelry. Prior to that the average player was at 100% movement speed with maybe 30% major. Then people had 60% suddenly and instead of zos adjusting the speeds buffs down they just adjusted the uptimes of major and snare immunities. So after that the game started feeling like this drag racing "redlight greenlight" type game.
Most solo and BG setups land at 150-200% movement speed without sprint. Yet back then you'd be at 130% on nonstamsorc builds. So I say doubling buffs because +30% to +75%ish. Way more sources in everyday builds were added, but they should have reduced values more to keep the same average speeds.
Even further back yeah there were the uncapped scroll run build days, but on a normal functional combat build you wouldnt have speed 5 pieces on.
I can't spend my entire day on here fact checking you. Major expedition from potions was 40% not 30%.
Well this was in clockwork before summerset at 30%
This was still 30% in june 2016
Edited by MincMincMinc on January 16, 2026 2:18PMI only use insightful0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Losing that 20% hurts solos/pugs a lot more than it hurts comp groups.MincMincMinc wrote: »There is no reason to boost heals in keeps, where we know fights might stagnate on the server and linger on and on causing lag.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »[*] Movement speed being double what it used to doesnt help
Movement is not double what it used to be. They added a movement speed cap and nerfed a lot of movement speed abilities and potions. It used to be super easy, as a solo player, to have 100% uptime on Major Expedition, and it gave 40% movement speed. They actually toned movement down after that because players were moving so fast that they couldn’t hit each other.
It used to be so fast that I could actually outrun players who were sprinting on mounts.
Well it all changed in summerset when they released 10% swift jewelry. Prior to that the average player was at 100% movement speed with maybe 30% major. Then people had 60% suddenly and instead of zos adjusting the speeds buffs down they just adjusted the uptimes of major and snare immunities. So after that the game started feeling like this drag racing "redlight greenlight" type game.
Most solo and BG setups land at 150-200% movement speed without sprint. Yet back then you'd be at 130% on nonstamsorc builds. So I say doubling buffs because +30% to +75%ish. Way more sources in everyday builds were added, but they should have reduced values more to keep the same average speeds.
Even further back yeah there were the uncapped scroll run build days, but on a normal functional combat build you wouldnt have speed 5 pieces on.
I can't spend my entire day on here fact checking you. Major expedition from potions was 40% not 30%.
Well this was in clockwork before summerset at 30%
Reduced the bonus movement speed from the Major Expedition buff category to 30% from 40%.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Patch/1.3.0.0
For a potion at maximum rank, this reduces the duration of Major Expedition from 40.6 second to 12.5 seconds, before any modifications from things such as enchantments or passives.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441713/pc-mac-patch-notes-v4-2-5?
Edited by Teeba_Shei on January 16, 2026 2:20PM0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »[*] Movement speed being double what it used to doesnt help
Movement is not double what it used to be. They added a movement speed cap and nerfed a lot of movement speed abilities and potions. It used to be super easy, as a solo player, to have 100% uptime on Major Expedition, and it gave 40% movement speed. They actually toned movement down after that because players were moving so fast that they couldn’t hit each other.
It used to be so fast that I could actually outrun players who were sprinting on mounts.
Well it all changed in summerset when they released 10% swift jewelry. Prior to that the average player was at 100% movement speed with maybe 30% major. Then people had 60% suddenly and instead of zos adjusting the speeds buffs down they just adjusted the uptimes of major and snare immunities. So after that the game started feeling like this drag racing "redlight greenlight" type game.
Most solo and BG setups land at 150-200% movement speed without sprint. Yet back then you'd be at 130% on nonstamsorc builds. So I say doubling buffs because +30% to +75%ish. Way more sources in everyday builds were added, but they should have reduced values more to keep the same average speeds.
Even further back yeah there were the uncapped scroll run build days, but on a normal functional combat build you wouldnt have speed 5 pieces on.
I can't spend my entire day on here fact checking you. Major expedition from potions was 40% not 30%.
Well this was in clockwork before summerset at 30%
Reduced the bonus movement speed from the Major Expedition buff category to 30% from 40%.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Patch/1.3.0.0
Ahh so it was 40% much earlier. Right and since then they have added handfuls of extra speed in just about every possible build choice. Except without reducing the values to keep the same average speed.I only use insightful0
This discussion has been closed.