tomofhyrule wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

your wish is my command at any off peak hour in q for a specific on dd, no more dungeons !

...

i think surely 5 - 7 years since as dd role i noticed a q this long, but i bet according to forum it is because the dd list is miles long and there just is no one tanking

...

back in the day even now at this time at weekend we would be expecting to meet other time zones in EU, and chat to them in randoms but these days nothing except echo chambers, i miss the Australians complaining that they cant make the eu trial times haha

I mean... you could tank too, and that's solve that problem.

One of the other major things to note is that both of the new dungeons are very tank-heavy, so I totally understand why no tanks want to pug them. Heck, I don't PuG at all because I don't want to deal with random groups, and I only tank.

But yes, your other major problem is the fact that you're playing on XB EU, and it's well known that that is the most underpopulated server by a lot. XB as a console really is unpopular outside of the US in the first place and has barely any traction, so it follows that the XB EU server is going to be very underpopulated. The EU servers also tend to be a lot more concentrated than the NA servers by nature with a very active primetime and then very little at other times, as opposed to NA highs and lows being much less extreme; most players who play at different times like OCE tend to favor the NA servers, so it has a more consistent population.

PC - EU and yes half of the EU server play both servers (and vice versa) but i only play EU so i have no idea really what goes on in NA
Saturday mornings no better 20 minute dd q for fake healer and just leave at start, then i have to switch to healer and q again (again likely 20 minute q, ( edit: sitting at over 15 mins now) because of penalty....gets really boring
As for tanking, if there was more than a 50% chance to end up in a group with a real healer i would tank more
its just principle for me i dont stay in randoms with fake rolers after everything thats happened, and principle why so many left after subclassing without even giving it a try
feels like someone trying to shove fake rolling down my throat



20 minutes and counting real healer q after dd q fail
it is more fun watching the pensioners have a natter outside that q in eso now

Everyone just does the new dungeons if the new sets are good; meta to some degree.

None of the most recent ones are because ZOS has been trying to keep things more balanced.
That new black gem monstrosity set tho…

I think new dungeons are really a great thing. Doing the same old dungeons in the base game every day is super boring.
What we need, though, is a dungeon guide. Or a brief explanation of the boss mechanics that you can optionally get in the dungeon. That would be a wonderful addition. I often see players with CP 1000+ even in base game dungeons who don't have the faintest idea about mechanics. And when you have to explain the mechanics for the hundredth time, it's really annoying. Often explanations are not understood at all because people do not speak English.
A dungeon assistant would be cool. Maybe one of the Undaunted that you can summon when needed and ask for explanations.
I wouldn't want to miss out on the DLC dungeons. They are very well designed and not boring at all. It's perfectly fine that they are a little more difficult. That's why you need CP 300 for the vet versions. Maybe this limit should be raised a little.

Dock01 wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

I don't like that OP is speaking for me. New dungeons are the highlights of the year.

If you don't like dungeons, don't play them. I don't like card games so I don't play ToT. It's that easy. It's not like I'm going to run out of content to play if I miss a bit of card playing.

[snip]

Here's a crazy idea: maybe, perhaps, these kind of responses would go away if people stop trying to talk on behalf of everyone. I will keep telling people they don't represent me if they keep posting that they represent me.
[edited to remove quote]

twisttop138 wrote: »

I mean, I don't wanna ruin the secret but Naj Caldeesh was awesome. When we went in and figured out what it was and the 3 spots to do it in, I was impressed. It's just left field man. Really cool. How could you not want more of that. Story has been meh lately but the dungeon team is firing on all cylinders. My complaint is the sets. Tank set is good and I get you don't wanna shake up the meta all the time but man, can we get some cool sets?

I feel like worst case scenario we should just get sets that we already have but with different proc effects. At least then they’d be usable and the decision comes down to visuals and damage type.

RebornV3x wrote: »

It seems the forums are a minority in liking 4 dungeons a year.

The forums are overpopulated with people who come to complain about something they don't like.

i certainly dont enjoy being told voice is required in an eso dungeon, i like to enjoy the complicated stuff voice chat free thankyou. i have lair of maarselok and black gem foundry hm's in mind, for LoM if a guild did not agree to hold my hand i would have totally dropped the thought of that HM. either way not been back for years, too bad for those with poor eyesight and the colourblind too. but i sort of had my mind made up for me since it seems i cannot random group it BGF hm is off the cards too for now since its a voice thing i guess

z32 wrote: »

I see a lot of arguments about it but only few highlighted real issue. The problem is not adding 4 DLC dungeons per year, it is how they are implemented. All of them have complicated, confusing mechanics that requires reading boring manuals and watching lengthily videos to understand how to do it. People want to play game, not to read or watch videos about it.

I have a dungeon group. Four of us (with occassional fillers if someone is away) run a HM dungeon on a Monday. When new dungeons come out, we run that instead. Blind run on Veteran difficulty - none of us check it out on the PTS, none of us watch videos - we play the game, we learn the mechs, and we get the clear within our 2 hour allotted time. The next run we do it in a hour. The third run we get it done in 30 minutes. Then we get the speed run.

MMOs are complicated, they require a certain level of dedication to learn how the game works to get the more difficult content done, that's how it should be. Time and effort yield rewards.

z32 wrote: »

On vet level coordination is often required to avoid “kill on spot” or “wipe on spot” or similar mechanics even when players know about it.

Higher difficulty requires greater co-operation, that's how it should be.

"z32 wrote: »

On vet level coordination is often required to avoid “kill on spot” or “wipe on spot” or similar mechanics even when players know about it. Vast majority runs PUGs, such mechanics are PUG killers

Soarora wrote: »

You know what's also a pug killer? First boss of Scalecaller Peak. Any boss that has one (1) mechanic that kills someone if done incorrectly can be a pug killer.

Just wanted to add to that:
Vaults of Madness - Base Game - Mini-Boss (Wraith)
Spindlecluth II - Base Game - 2nd Boss
Crypt of Hearts II - Base Game - Mini-Boss (Mezeluth)
Elden Hollow I - Base Game - 2nd Boss
Tempest Island - Base Game - 2nd & 3rd Boss

... and many more that will wipe a PuG that doesn't know what it is doing.

Soarora wrote: »

z32 wrote: »

I see a lot of arguments about it but only few highlighted real issue. The problem is not adding 4 DLC dungeons per year, it is how they are implemented. All of them have complicated, confusing mechanics that requires reading boring manuals and watching lengthily videos to understand how to do it. People want to play game, not to read or watch videos about it. On vet level coordination is often required to avoid “kill on spot” or “wipe on spot” or similar mechanics even when players know about it. Vast majority runs PUGs, such mechanics are PUG killers, meaning majority of players can not do it as OP stated. I seen even PUG fail on normal level ER dungeon where the difficulty is way more then vet HM on some base dungeons due to these mechanics. So the answer is not to stop making DLC dungeons but start making them for everyone like base game ones instead of only for 0.2-0.3% of players as XBOX stat shows.

And how do you think people who made those guides figured out the mechanics? You do not need to read or watch a guide for any dungeon, you just need to know that the death recap gives hints at the bottom. Of course, a pug group likely won't appreciate a blind run but in my experience (and how I treat others), if people ask for mechanic help or express that they don't know how to do the dungeon... people will explain.
You know what's also a pug killer? First boss of Scalecaller Peak. Any boss that has one (1) mechanic that kills someone if done incorrectly can be a pug killer. Is it really the best route to make all mechanics ignorable instead of forcing people to learn how to do mechanics? To push people to become better players and thus be able to climb difficulty levels if they so wish instead of experiencing a sharp difficulty spike?

Daoin wrote: »

i certainly dont enjoy being told voice is required in an eso dungeon, i like to enjoy the complicated stuff voice chat free thankyou. i have lair of maarselok and black gem foundry hm's in mind, for LoM if a guild did not agree to hold my hand i would have totally dropped the thought of that HM. either way not been back for years, too bad for those with poor eyesight and the colourblind too. but i sort of had my mind made up for me since it seems i cannot random group it BGF hm is off the cards too for now since its a voice thing i guess

Yes, many people say voice chat is required for LoM. No, it is not. I prefer LoM voiceless myself because I have bad auditory comprehension so the typing method is better for me as I can tell at a glance whose the odd one out. Both in my opinion and in opinions gathered from others, BGF HM is possibly the best designed dungeon we've had, in part because it requires so much communication and coordination. Unlike LoM, I think BGF is objectively easier with voice chat but I don't think it's impossible. PUGging BGF HM however... you'd have to happen across a group of 3 friends who queued together. The general pug population wouldn't be able to do it. This is good, HMs shouldn't be balanced around pugs. Normals, absolutely. Veteran, sure, within reason. HM, absolutely not. Most pugs don't do DLC HMs, DLC HMs are for organized groups. Anyone can join or create organized groups, especially on PC (I know consoles can be rough due to lower population).

i done all hm's just not got around to the 2 latest yet, in EU some join random vet so many times hm in random is conclusion i think only 4 (it maybe 5 but surely no more than 6 and even couple these were blind 1st time clears with guild just showing how its done for my randoms because i did not feel comfortable about ending up n a hm in those) of my hm's were done in an organized group so far the rest ended up being completed in random, and especially now group finder is more active people joining for hm's all the time for dungeons
just yesterday was gooing through shipwrights again for hm practice with random players, for me no voice and random group is a more fun challenge, if typing can solve any prooblems we encounter. no time to finish yesterday due to maint but those that wanted to know know enough now to proceed successfully in future random i think
honestly not to shy me to just tell guild when im not confident about somethng i think i may face in randoms too luckily its not too often, even though i made it pretty clear as i can random dailies and housing were my main thing mixed with some questing and dabbling in other things, but now at nearly max cp its a bit different
sort of applies to trial hm's too except i could never have done any of those so far i have without atleast listening to guild even if i did not like it i admit, infact haha its still not unusual to see me just doing my own thing in trials i just get carried away i guess too much, unless i am healing or tanking you'll never find my dd's in meta, nobody have a problem with it that i know
but yeah as for LoM hm since guild held my hand for the HM ouple years back not been back, think only ended up in random in hm there less than 10 times completed in few years rest of time i likely would just leave group if ended up there, no atually i went a few times at mask style time for me and others but not hm. i said to guild one time, will you guys hold my hand through LoM hm because i wont in random and they agreed, my contibution although not much i try to do other HM's with no voice whenevr i am not too tired, lloks like people shooting for dungeon trifectas in finder now though more so unusual to find hm's now, thats not for me though, hahai for sure seen lots of new titles popping up but i just go as cloudrest hero or the inedible are my faves still lol
as for why not done the 2 new hm's just not got the fire anymore to want them
one thing i can say in my eso history videos of how to do things in dungeons maybe less than 10 times is as many years
you tube vids are for precise location of treasure maps lol or hard to find skyshards this i did plent of how to vids
sunspire hm was one of the ones trial done with randoms, 3 of my accounted for how to vids boil down to that hm and plent soaking up voice guild chat and vet VAS 2 same thing, with randoms 1st clear
my trial hm's were done before subclassing except one of them of the few i have but i have no completed trial set sticker books
not even my arena sticker books are full and i completed them on vet and got what i wanted donkeys years ago
i swear though having my nightblade dd put in all the legwork back then is nothing like arcanist today, a good thing i think. when people say start with that next time after a roough start same applies to arcanists
in my opinion the pure class arcanist was best thing to ever happen for dd's, definately not worth the subclassing price (none of the original classes were in my opinion eventually playing them all myself except necro as dd) to lose wether people played it or not, but again...i guess in the end all for the greater good again things are going down that road. infact for me one of the highlights of my day would doing vet dungeons with my pure warden dd before subclassing, not logged onto him since yet. only use 1 tank 1 dd 1 healer now and i struggle to see any point in logging to my other characters. not even for dailies. i must make one retirement home for them when i have time. every group i seem to be in now seems to just thread everything we do which is kind of fun

I think regardless if you like dungeons or not, we can all acknowledge they've done this recipe for 11 years. Eat anything for that long, and it starts to get stale.

I just want them to experiment with new content. I thought they committed to that for 2023 and 2024, but for some reason they went back on that promise for 2025. I suppose it has something to do with moving to content passes, maybe the 3rd/4th dungeons for this year were originally meant for 2026, but they shifted things around as they did say "2025 is a transitional year".

Either way, I want to see them think outside the box. Let them cook. Even if you absolutely love dungeons, there is probably over 50+ to play right now. If we can move back to 2 a year, for them to try something out of the box, I'm all for it.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I think regardless if you like dungeons or not, we can all acknowledge they've done this recipe for 11 years. Eat anything for that long, and it starts to get stale.

I just want them to experiment with new content. I thought they committed to that for 2023 and 2024, but for some reason they went back on that promise for 2025. I suppose it has something to do with moving to content passes, maybe the 3rd/4th dungeons for this year were originally meant for 2026, but they shifted things around as they did say "2025 is a transitional year".

Either way, I want to see them think outside the box. Let them cook. Even if you absolutely love dungeons, there is probably over 50+ to play right now. If we can move back to 2 a year, for them to try something out of the box, I'm all for it.

Totally agree. I do like dungeons, but there's 50+ now. It would be nice to see something new. The game does have a stale feel to it when every single year plays out pretty much the same way in terms of content, with only the packaging and monetization changing.

As part of this, I'm still waiting for an end game system for solo players. Yes, it's an MMO, blah, blah, yada yada boom cakes, but the fact is that there is always a significant number of people who only solo in MMOs. Been that way since the beginning. Shown up in every study. I suspect because of the single-player TES tie-in, that's more true with ESO.

Right now, for soloers or people who solo a lot (but not always), there's no endgame system. There are a ton of systems that can be partially completed solo (like antiquities, collecting lorebooks, achievements, to name a few), but there's still no endgame system in ESO that can be completed solo, meaning systems that have you out in the world doing stuff. So once you've finished the story content, there's nothing unless you do stuff you know you'll never be able to complete. Which frankly sucks as an experience.

I'm hoping the new leadership team, who claim they want to make sure there's something for all playstyles, will finally do something about this.

Soarora wrote: »

Of course, a pug group likely won't appreciate a blind run

Exactly my and OP point.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Just wanted to add to that:
Vaults of Madness - Base Game - Mini-Boss (Wraith)
Spindlecluth II - Base Game - 2nd Boss
Crypt of Hearts II - Base Game - Mini-Boss (Mezeluth)
Elden Hollow I - Base Game - 2nd Boss
Tempest Island - Base Game - 2nd & 3rd Boss

... and many more that will wipe a PuG that doesn't know what it is doing.

Scalecaller Peak is DLC, they just added it to base game because nobody wants to run it for the discussed reasons. As for the rest, we are not talking about a player being killed during dungeon run, I seen players being killed in vet FG1, this is not the issue. We are talking about failure to complete dungeon, when 1 player being killed leads to whole PUG group wipe or mechanics that wipes entire group with no chance to recover, so group abandons dungeon after few tries and players never complete it even once.

Æthërnüm wrote: »

The only thing they should stop: making dungeons TOO easy and placing rewards for just vet. We need more decent rewards for challenging actions in such dungeons (not a title or memento). That's it. And yes, i did HMs in a first run for first hour in the last ones and this is too simple (i remember how i've been tryharding March of Sacrifices on HM for hours).

This is the reason 99% players fails to complete DLC dungeons. We may be tired after work, we do not have hours to spend in the game trying this and that etc. Yet all of you saying this is how it is supposed to be: 99% of us (according to the stats) will pay money for content development so only you (1%) will enjoy the game and we won’t? Do you think people will agree or start leaving the game? Are you willing to pay literally 100 times more for the game to cover the cost of game development, maintenance and support if 99% players quit? ZOS is not a charity, it can not do it without profit.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Right now, for soloers or people who solo a lot (but not always), there's no endgame system. There are a ton of systems that can be partially completed solo (like antiquities, collecting lorebooks, achievements, to name a few), but there's still no endgame system in ESO that can be completed solo, meaning systems that have you out in the world doing stuff. So once you've finished the story content, there's nothing unless you do stuff you know you'll never be able to complete. Which frankly sucks as an experience.

Like what? I'm presuming you mean repeatable solo instanced content or something you can grind?

Instanced: MA, VH, IA
Grind: Zone exploration/completion, Sub-Class skill lines, (some) Golden Pursuits, Zone Dailies

I say this as someone who does solo often: Solo games have an end-point, there is only so much you can do before you've tapped that well dry. For soloists in ESO it's a very deep well, there is a massive amount of content to chew through. So, given what is already in the game, how would you envision a workable solo end-game?

Not necessarily repeatable solo instances or something you can grind, no.

One possibility would be a system of collectibles like lorebooks. There are over 6000+ lorebooks, which is great. Except there are lorebooks in dungeons and trials, so sure, you can collect 98% of them, but no cigar, so what's the point of starting? There are also lorebooks in PvP areas. Leads - great. Except there are leads in trials. Sure you can buy them from the vendor, but waiting a year for your last few leads to come up isn't exhilarating gameplay. Have a collectible system of 10000+ items, all located in the many zones we now have in the world, including delves and PDs.

Another possibility would be a daily system that involves solo activities only (no WBs, no dungeons, etc.) and the reward is something where you have to collect X of them (and can only get one a day), and at the end there's something cool, like a house.

Those are two off the top of my head. I'm not a game designer, so it's not my responsibility to come up with ideas, though I'm sure if I gave it more thought, I could come up with more. I have no reason to believe that the designers at ZOS lack imagination and could come up with more ideas.

Massive amounts of content to chew through and complete - sure, like the story content. But once it's done, it's done, and with AwA, there's nothing new on alts. There's nothing to fill, like the sticker book. And it's expensive to produce, unlike my ideas above. After the story content, what else is there that can be completed and has variety. Dailies? No, they're the same day after day. Can't complete all the achievements. Can't complete antiquities. Can't complete the lorebooks. Can't complete a sticker book. There's nothing to work towards, which is key. So I disagree. For a new player, yes, there's massive amounts of story content that will keep them busy for a some time. For the solo gamer who has been here for a while, nothing.

So while yes, there are solo arenas and golden pursuits and such, there are also several great systems in the game that offer variety (not grinding - except the sticker book which is grindy), that can't be completed solo. All I'm asking for is at least one great system that isn't grinding or instanced, that gets you out in the world and has variety (like lorebooks, like antiquities, like achievements), that can be completed solo. There isn't one yet.

If I've tapped the well dry as a (mainly) solo player, then ZOS needs to say that in plain language and soloists will know to move on. It's the "we're adding content for all play styles" line that will keep me around for one more reveal for 2026. All I'd like is some sign that they do care about solo players and there is something meaty on the way for us.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Right now, for soloers or people who solo a lot (but not always), there's no endgame system. There are a ton of systems that can be partially completed solo (like antiquities, collecting lorebooks, achievements, to name a few), but there's still no endgame system in ESO that can be completed solo, meaning systems that have you out in the world doing stuff. So once you've finished the story content, there's nothing unless you do stuff you know you'll never be able to complete. Which frankly sucks as an experience.

Like what? I'm presuming you mean repeatable solo instanced content or something you can grind?

Instanced: MA, VH, IA
Grind: Zone exploration/completion, Sub-Class skill lines, (some) Golden Pursuits, Zone Dailies

I say this as someone who does solo often: Solo games have an end-point, there is only so much you can do before you've tapped that well dry. For soloists in ESO it's a very deep well, there is a massive amount of content to chew through. So, given what is already in the game, how would you envision a workable solo end-game?

Not necessarily repeatable solo instances or something you can grind, no.

One possibility would be a system of collectibles like lorebooks. There are over 6000+ lorebooks, which is great. Except there are lorebooks in dungeons and trials, so sure, you can collect 98% of them, but no cigar, so what's the point of starting? There are also lorebooks in PvP areas. Leads - great. Except there are leads in trials. Sure you can buy them from the vendor, but waiting a year for your last few leads to come up isn't exhilarating gameplay. Have a collectible system of 10000+ items, all located in the many zones we now have in the world, including delves and PDs.

Another possibility would be a daily system that involves solo activities only (no WBs, no dungeons, etc.) and the reward is something where you have to collect X of them (and can only get one a day), and at the end there's something cool, like a house.

Those are two off the top of my head. I'm not a game designer, so it's not my responsibility to come up with ideas, though I'm sure if I gave it more thought, I could come up with more. I have no reason to believe that the designers at ZOS lack imagination and could come up with more ideas.

And yet, both of those examples you give have an end: you finish your library or you finish the house… and then what?

Even PvE content currently has an end, because once you have all of the trifectas, you… just go do it on a different character/role? Help others? That’s about it, so if your entire goal is to be a one-character wonder who never plays with others, even that’s not possible. The only way to satisfy those solo players in general is for ZOS to keep churning out content faster and faster, so there is more content than can reasonably be completed before the next drop. And that’s unsustainable (not to mention would also means stopping any content that isn’t overland quests).

I also worry that if ZOS carers too heavily to the people who favor ESO as an exclusively solo game, that they’ll 1) drive off the more MMO people (which we already are starting to see with Subclassing, since the loudest voices supporting it are the soloists, whereas the people who deride it are concerned about balance in PvE/PvP), and 2) lose all of the soloists when TES6 releases.

Yes, it’s coming. Eventually, but it’ll release. And when it does, it will have everything soloists want: difficulty levels, exceptional graphics, deeper stories, quests will make a difference in the world, and you’ll be able to mod in whatever you want. And most importantly, no other people around to bother you. I don’t even consider the world a factor, because you just know some modded is going to make whichever worldspace you still miss - they’re already doing that to recreate all of Cyrodiil in Skyrim.

So if TES6 is going to give the soloists everything they want, why would they return to an utterly inferior experience like ESO? The release of TES6 will be a death knell for this game, and the only way it will survive that is to offer something that TES6 doesn’t: PvP and PvE group content.

Wouldn’t it be ironic if the suits know that, and the fact that ESO plays so heavily towards soloists is part of the reason that they’re dragging their feet on TES6…