No more DLC dungeons

karthrag_inak

RebornV3x wrote: »

It seems the forums are a minority in liking 4 dungeons a year.
Feast of Shadows just came out on Xbox and literally nobody is doing the new dungeons

... Xbox .... minority ....

Daoin

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

your wish is my command at any off peak hour in q for a specific on dd, no more dungeons !

...

i think surely 5 - 7 years since as dd role i noticed a q this long, but i bet according to forum it is because the dd list is miles long and there just is no one tanking

...

back in the day even now at this time at weekend we would be expecting to meet other time zones in EU, and chat to them in randoms but these days nothing except echo chambers, i miss the Australians complaining that they cant make the eu trial times haha

I mean... you could tank too, and that's solve that problem.

One of the other major things to note is that both of the new dungeons are very tank-heavy, so I totally understand why no tanks want to pug them. Heck, I don't PuG at all because I don't want to deal with random groups, and I only tank.

But yes, your other major problem is the fact that you're playing on XB EU, and it's well known that that is the most underpopulated server by a lot. XB as a console really is unpopular outside of the US in the first place and has barely any traction, so it follows that the XB EU server is going to be very underpopulated. The EU servers also tend to be a lot more concentrated than the NA servers by nature with a very active primetime and then very little at other times, as opposed to NA highs and lows being much less extreme; most players who play at different times like OCE tend to favor the NA servers, so it has a more consistent population.

PC - EU and yes half of the EU server play both servers (and vice versa) but i only play EU so i have no idea really what goes on in NA
Saturday mornings no better 20 minute dd q for fake healer and just leave at start, then i have to switch to healer and q again (again likely 20 minute q, ( edit: sitting at over 15 mins now) because of penalty....gets really boring
As for tanking, if there was more than a 50% chance to end up in a group with a real healer i would tank more
its just principle for me i dont stay in randoms with fake rolers after everything thats happened, and principle why so many left after subclassing without even giving it a try
feels like someone trying to shove fake rolling down my throat



20 minutes and counting real healer q after dd q fail
it is more fun watching the pensioners have a natter outside that q in eso now

Hotdog_23

I like 4 dungeons a year and missed it when we only received 2 per year. My only complaint is I hate artificial things that force a group, such as plates to stand on or even needing 4 players to play a sound. 

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed them with a group, but I really like to play the first time solo and take my time to enjoy the environment and dialogue. I even go back to reading the chat since I sometimes miss what is said during combat. One reason I really like Black Gem Foundry much better is even if Naj-Caldeesh looked better and was interesting. 

Another thing I wish we could repeat Dungeon Quest just for giggles. It's really been years since I have done some of them. Same for trials. We really need a story mode.

Stay safe

ercknn

Everyone just does the new dungeons if the new sets are good; meta to some degree.

None of the most recent ones are because ZOS has been trying to keep things more balanced.
That new black gem monstrosity set tho…

YandereGirlfriend

ercknn wrote: »

Everyone just does the new dungeons if the new sets are good; meta to some degree.

None of the most recent ones are because ZOS has been trying to keep things more balanced.
That new black gem monstrosity set tho…

Jerensei's (sic) Bladestorm is actually sneaky good as well.

Ardriel

I think new dungeons are really a great thing. Doing the same old dungeons in the base game every day is super boring.
What we need, though, is a dungeon guide. Or a brief explanation of the boss mechanics that you can optionally get in the dungeon. That would be a wonderful addition. I often see players with CP 1000+ even in base game dungeons who don't have the faintest idea about mechanics. And when you have to explain the mechanics for the hundredth time, it's really annoying. Often explanations are not understood at all because people do not speak English.
A dungeon assistant would be cool. Maybe one of the Undaunted that you can summon when needed and ask for explanations.
I wouldn't want to miss out on the DLC dungeons. They are very well designed and not boring at all. It's perfectly fine that they are a little more difficult. That's why you need CP 300 for the vet versions. Maybe this limit should be raised a little.

frogthroat

I don't like that OP is speaking for me. New dungeons are the highlights of the year.

If you don't like dungeons, don't play them. I don't like card games so I don't play ToT. It's that easy. It's not like I'm going to run out of content to play if I miss a bit of card playing.

frogthroat

Dock01 wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

I don't like that OP is speaking for me. New dungeons are the highlights of the year.

If you don't like dungeons, don't play them. I don't like card games so I don't play ToT. It's that easy. It's not like I'm going to run out of content to play if I miss a bit of card playing.

[snip]

Here's a crazy idea: maybe, perhaps, these kind of responses would go away if people stop trying to talk on behalf of everyone. I will keep telling people they don't represent me if they keep posting that they represent me.
[edited to remove quote]

twisttop138

I mean, I don't wanna ruin the secret but Naj Caldeesh was awesome. When we went in and figured out what it was and the 3 spots to do it in, I was impressed. It's just left field man. Really cool. How could you not want more of that. Story has been meh lately but the dungeon team is firing on all cylinders. My complaint is the sets. Tank set is good and I get you don't wanna shake up the meta all the time but man, can we get some cool sets?

Soarora

twisttop138 wrote: »

I mean, I don't wanna ruin the secret but Naj Caldeesh was awesome. When we went in and figured out what it was and the 3 spots to do it in, I was impressed. It's just left field man. Really cool. How could you not want more of that. Story has been meh lately but the dungeon team is firing on all cylinders. My complaint is the sets. Tank set is good and I get you don't wanna shake up the meta all the time but man, can we get some cool sets?

I feel like worst case scenario we should just get sets that we already have but with different proc effects. At least then they’d be usable and the decision comes down to visuals and damage type.

ceruulean

ZOS should make 6 man dungeons. There's not enough tanks for 4 man dungeons.

Gabriel_H

RebornV3x wrote: »

It seems the forums are a minority in liking 4 dungeons a year.

The forums are overpopulated with people who come to complain about something they don't like.

z32

I see a lot of arguments about it but only few highlighted real issue. The problem is not adding 4 DLC dungeons per year, it is how they are implemented. All of them have complicated, confusing mechanics that requires reading boring manuals and watching lengthily videos to understand how to do it. People want to play game, not to read or watch videos about it. On vet level coordination is often required to avoid “kill on spot” or “wipe on spot” or similar mechanics even when players know about it. Vast majority runs PUGs, such mechanics are PUG killers, meaning majority of players can not do it as OP stated. I seen even PUG fail on normal level ER dungeon where the difficulty is way more then vet HM on some base dungeons due to these mechanics. So the answer is not to stop making DLC dungeons but start making them for everyone like base game ones instead of only for 0.2-0.3% of players as XBOX stat shows.
As for @Heronisan comparison between zone completion and dungeon completion, it is not that simple (thank you for posting stats). Zone completion requires a lot of time and does not give much in return. Most players can not spend hours and hours in game so they focus on most important activities. Dailies is what everyone is doing in the zone due to rewards. Give 2-3 daily coffers as additional reward for every zone quest and you will see high level of completion for Zone as well. RND is another favourite activity to gain XP, so if DLC dungeons were build for PUGs and did not take too much time to finish, completion level would be much higher.
With current state of DLC dungeons, all this time and money ZOS spent creating them, at best, means nothing to majority of players, at worst, make them rage quit.

Daoin

i certainly dont enjoy being told voice is required in an eso dungeon, i like to enjoy the complicated stuff voice chat free thankyou. i have lair of maarselok and black gem foundry hm's in mind, for LoM if a guild did not agree to hold my hand i would have totally dropped the thought of that HM. either way not been back for years, too bad for those with poor eyesight and the colourblind too. but i sort of had my mind made up for me since it seems i cannot random group it BGF hm is off the cards too for now since its a voice thing i guess

Gabriel_H

Daoin wrote: »

too bad for those with poor eyesight and the colourblind too. but i sort of had my mind made up for me since it seems i cannot random group it BGF hm is off the cards too for now since its a voice thing i guess

<- End-game tank(occassional DD) & RL with a truckload of experience (just for context) with sight issues I might add.

Absolutely not the case. Firstly ZOS have made the coloured symbols in BGF all have a circular halo which doesn't help the colourblind and hopefilly they will fix this. There are solutions though - use your OS settings to change to Greyscale, you can then focus on the symbols.

BGF HM doesn't require voice anymore than any other dungeon HM. While voice is a desireable and the way modern gaming has gone, it is still possible to do without voice. Whether it is using warning addons, or just running with a dedicated team, there is enough available for you to do any dungeon HM or even Trifecta without voice.

Will it take more effort? Absolutely. Voice is a shortcut when it comes to learning and training the mechs, but it is still doable without. The mechs can be dealt with by agreeing what to do beforehand, and with a group who don't need reminding every time something comes up.

By the way, I have many HMs, trials and dungeons, but one HM I do not yet have - LoM - so you are doing better than me!

Gabriel_H

z32 wrote: »

I see a lot of arguments about it but only few highlighted real issue. The problem is not adding 4 DLC dungeons per year, it is how they are implemented. All of them have complicated, confusing mechanics that requires reading boring manuals and watching lengthily videos to understand how to do it. People want to play game, not to read or watch videos about it.

I have a dungeon group. Four of us (with occassional fillers if someone is away) run a HM dungeon on a Monday. When new dungeons come out, we run that instead. Blind run on Veteran difficulty - none of us check it out on the PTS, none of us watch videos - we play the game, we learn the mechs, and we get the clear within our 2 hour allotted time. The next run we do it in a hour. The third run we get it done in 30 minutes. Then we get the speed run.

MMOs are complicated, they require a certain level of dedication to learn how the game works to get the more difficult content done, that's how it should be. Time and effort yield rewards.

z32 wrote: »

On vet level coordination is often required to avoid “kill on spot” or “wipe on spot” or similar mechanics even when players know about it.

Higher difficulty requires greater co-operation, that's how it should be.

Soarora

z32 wrote: »

I see a lot of arguments about it but only few highlighted real issue. The problem is not adding 4 DLC dungeons per year, it is how they are implemented. All of them have complicated, confusing mechanics that requires reading boring manuals and watching lengthily videos to understand how to do it. People want to play game, not to read or watch videos about it. On vet level coordination is often required to avoid “kill on spot” or “wipe on spot” or similar mechanics even when players know about it. Vast majority runs PUGs, such mechanics are PUG killers, meaning majority of players can not do it as OP stated. I seen even PUG fail on normal level ER dungeon where the difficulty is way more then vet HM on some base dungeons due to these mechanics. So the answer is not to stop making DLC dungeons but start making them for everyone like base game ones instead of only for 0.2-0.3% of players as XBOX stat shows.

And how do you think people who made those guides figured out the mechanics? You do not need to read or watch a guide for any dungeon, you just need to know that the death recap gives hints at the bottom. Of course, a pug group likely won't appreciate a blind run but in my experience (and how I treat others), if people ask for mechanic help or express that they don't know how to do the dungeon... people will explain.
You know what's also a pug killer? First boss of Scalecaller Peak. Any boss that has one (1) mechanic that kills someone if done incorrectly can be a pug killer. Is it really the best route to make all mechanics ignorable instead of forcing people to learn how to do mechanics? To push people to become better players and thus be able to climb difficulty levels if they so wish instead of experiencing a sharp difficulty spike?

Daoin wrote: »

i certainly dont enjoy being told voice is required in an eso dungeon, i like to enjoy the complicated stuff voice chat free thankyou. i have lair of maarselok and black gem foundry hm's in mind, for LoM if a guild did not agree to hold my hand i would have totally dropped the thought of that HM. either way not been back for years, too bad for those with poor eyesight and the colourblind too. but i sort of had my mind made up for me since it seems i cannot random group it BGF hm is off the cards too for now since its a voice thing i guess

Yes, many people say voice chat is required for LoM. No, it is not. I prefer LoM voiceless myself because I have bad auditory comprehension so the typing method is better for me as I can tell at a glance whose the odd one out. Both in my opinion and in opinions gathered from others, BGF HM is possibly the best designed dungeon we've had, in part because it requires so much communication and coordination. Unlike LoM, I think BGF is objectively easier with voice chat but I don't think it's impossible. PUGging BGF HM however... you'd have to happen across a group of 3 friends who queued together. The general pug population wouldn't be able to do it. This is good, HMs shouldn't be balanced around pugs. Normals, absolutely. Veteran, sure, within reason. HM, absolutely not. Most pugs don't do DLC HMs, DLC HMs are for organized groups. Anyone can join or create organized groups, especially on PC (I know consoles can be rough due to lower population).

Gabriel_H

"z32 wrote: »

On vet level coordination is often required to avoid “kill on spot” or “wipe on spot” or similar mechanics even when players know about it. Vast majority runs PUGs, such mechanics are PUG killers

Soarora wrote: »

You know what's also a pug killer? First boss of Scalecaller Peak. Any boss that has one (1) mechanic that kills someone if done incorrectly can be a pug killer.

Just wanted to add to that:
Vaults of Madness - Base Game - Mini-Boss (Wraith)
Spindlecluth II - Base Game - 2nd Boss
Crypt of Hearts II - Base Game - Mini-Boss (Mezeluth)
Elden Hollow I - Base Game - 2nd Boss
Tempest Island - Base Game - 2nd & 3rd Boss

... and many more that will wipe a PuG that doesn't know what it is doing.

Lexalious

Couldn't have disagreed more. Such a bad take.