Overland Content Feedback Thread

ESO_player123 · August 26

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Before I say anything, I don't want overland to be made harder for for everyone as I know the majority of players are happy as it (maybe made even easier) and I would rather it stays at the difficulty level it is now, rather than force everyone to more diffcult overland, the same as it's now Saying that I would make massive use of a OPTIONAL Vet overland separate instance!

As someone who enjoys overland content but can Flail, Beam/2 HA attacks and kill most things/end of story boss that I encounter, why do I need to nerf myself to have enjoyment? Because it seems that by some of the posts of late, me being experienced and having high DPS/Survivability is not agreeable with others playstyles as, TBH, overland is trivial difficulty to me. But if I see others coming to WB/Delve Boss/Public Dungeon Boss I'll tag it and block so others can tag it also, so I'm not “that” player.

I have paid the same amount of funds and the right “to play as I want” ZOStm, and enjoy content as much as anyone else, don't I? I'm not shouting “Get Gud” is the only answer to overland difficulty. It seems reasonable that others have have access to a more challenging overland experience (Crags level off difficult would be a good starting point, and no I don't mean another crags zone, devs!) and by what has been posted some would rather us Vet players, naffed off any ways to the 4 new Dungeons/1 new Trial vet hm's a year that we get .

So in summery:

I would like a Vet Difficulty overland.

I want it optional.

I don't want to force others into a level of difficulty that they don't want.

I just want to enjoy the game as anyone else without having to nerf toons to do it.

If ZOS can do all that I would be happy, if it all makes sense. I want to have fun, as much as anyone else in game, is the reasonable request I make.

PS I'm free to play whatever instance I chose as my disabilties vary day - day/hour-hour.

I say no to that. There is no reason why a player should have twice the options as an average player. If one chooses to play in hard mode, then they should have to stay in that mode whether farming, questing, or dungeon running account wide. There should be a limited number of times one can change modes in case the hard mode is more difficult than they believed, they should be able to move back to normal mode. Players should not be able to switch back and forth or have some characters in one mode and other characters in another mode.

What you are proposing is a level restricted game. ESO was kind of like this (not exactly) before One Tamriel. They changed it for a reason (so players could play with their friends).

shadoza · August 26

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Before I say anything, I don't want overland to be made harder for for everyone as I know the majority of players are happy as it (maybe made even easier) and I would rather it stays at the difficulty level it is now, rather than force everyone to more diffcult overland, the same as it's now Saying that I would make massive use of a OPTIONAL Vet overland separate instance!

As someone who enjoys overland content but can Flail, Beam/2 HA attacks and kill most things/end of story boss that I encounter, why do I need to nerf myself to have enjoyment? Because it seems that by some of the posts of late, me being experienced and having high DPS/Survivability is not agreeable with others playstyles as, TBH, overland is trivial difficulty to me. But if I see others coming to WB/Delve Boss/Public Dungeon Boss I'll tag it and block so others can tag it also, so I'm not “that” player.

I have paid the same amount of funds and the right “to play as I want” ZOStm, and enjoy content as much as anyone else, don't I? I'm not shouting “Get Gud” is the only answer to overland difficulty. It seems reasonable that others have have access to a more challenging overland experience (Crags level off difficult would be a good starting point, and no I don't mean another crags zone, devs!) and by what has been posted some would rather us Vet players, naffed off any ways to the 4 new Dungeons/1 new Trial vet hm's a year that we get .

So in summery:

I would like a Vet Difficulty overland.

I want it optional.

I don't want to force others into a level of difficulty that they don't want.

I just want to enjoy the game as anyone else without having to nerf toons to do it.

If ZOS can do all that I would be happy, if it all makes sense. I want to have fun, as much as anyone else in game, is the reasonable request I make.

PS I'm free to play whatever instance I chose as my disabilties vary day - day/hour-hour.

I say no to that. There is no reason why a player should have twice the options as an average player. If one chooses to play in hard mode, then they should have to stay in that mode whether farming, questing, or dungeon running account wide. There should be a limited number of times one can change modes in case the hard mode is more difficult than they believed, they should be able to move back to normal mode. Players should not be able to switch back and forth or have some characters in one mode and other characters in another mode.

What you are proposing is a level restricted game. ESO was kind of like this (not exactly) before One Tamriel. They changed it for a reason (so players could play with their friends).

Yes. If higher levels get a fresh game level to play and still return to the normal level to farm resources in overland and dungeons, then the issue of lower levels having their fights interfered with does not go away. So, only the ELITE get what they want and the others, who pay the same to play as the elites, get nothing but more toxic behavior in from high levels that farm in quest areas, herd in quest areas, delves, and public dungeons.

BagOfBadgers · August 26

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Before I say anything, I don't want overland to be made harder for for everyone as I know the majority of players are happy as it (maybe made even easier) and I would rather it stays at the difficulty level it is now, rather than force everyone to more diffcult overland, the same as it's now Saying that I would make massive use of a OPTIONAL Vet overland separate instance!

As someone who enjoys overland content but can Flail, Beam/2 HA attacks and kill most things/end of story boss that I encounter, why do I need to nerf myself to have enjoyment? Because it seems that by some of the posts of late, me being experienced and having high DPS/Survivability is not agreeable with others playstyles as, TBH, overland is trivial difficulty to me. But if I see others coming to WB/Delve Boss/Public Dungeon Boss I'll tag it and block so others can tag it also, so I'm not “that” player.

I have paid the same amount of funds and the right “to play as I want” ZOStm, and enjoy content as much as anyone else, don't I? I'm not shouting “Get Gud” is the only answer to overland difficulty. It seems reasonable that others have have access to a more challenging overland experience (Crags level off difficult would be a good starting point, and no I don't mean another crags zone, devs!) and by what has been posted some would rather us Vet players, naffed off any ways to the 4 new Dungeons/1 new Trial vet hm's a year that we get .

So in summery:

I would like a Vet Difficulty overland.

I want it optional.

I don't want to force others into a level of difficulty that they don't want.

I just want to enjoy the game as anyone else without having to nerf toons to do it.

If ZOS can do all that I would be happy, if it all makes sense. I want to have fun, as much as anyone else in game, is the reasonable request I make.

PS I'm free to play whatever instance I chose as my disabilties vary day - day/hour-hour.

I say no to that. There is no reason why a player should have twice the options as an average player. If one chooses to play in hard mode, then they should have to stay in that mode whether farming, questing, or dungeon running account wide. There should be a limited number of times one can change modes in case the hard mode is more difficult than they believed, they should be able to move back to normal mode. Players should not be able to switch back and forth or have some characters in one mode and other characters in another mode.

Applying that logic then, once you move to vet Dungeon/Trials/Arenas, and after that HM's you are tied to that difficulty? Um no.

So in your world if you grow as player you are not allowed to drop back and help guild'es or friends in standard difficulty?

Yeah, the changes ZOS made in “One Tamriel” shows the that playing with friends and others was desired.

I don't know how to say this politely. I have paid the same as you and I don't dictate how you enjoy the ESO. I want that protected so “average” (what ever that means?) are not affected!

I just want to enjoy ESO at my level also. It's just reasonable to be able to toggle, at will, and for me the difficulty I choose would depend how much use I have of my hands at the time, One day it's both and I can parse around a 100k and others when it a may be only Thumb(s) and finger(s) on both hands, so HA'ing and movement only gets me 60K. Take of 25%'ish for actual content ,so 75k & 45K. Just to add I have to play on a modded gamepad and use other aids.

Again, I want to enjoy ESO at my level and others to enjoy whatever they want. I don't want to be punished for being me, if that makes sense?

Edit for me being me.

shadoza · August 26

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Applying that logic then, once you move to vet Dungeon/Trials/Arenas, and after that HM's you are tied to that difficulty? Um no.

So in your world if you grow as player you are not allowed to drop back and help guild'es or friends in standard difficulty?

Yeah, the changes ZOS made in “One Tamriel” shows the that playing with friends and others was desired.

I don't know how to say this politely. I have paid the same as you and I don't dictate how you enjoy the ESO. I want that protected so “average” (what ever that means?) are not affected!

I just want to enjoy ESO at my level also. It's just reasonable to be able to toggle, at will, and for me the difficulty I choose would depend how much use I have of my hands at the time, One day it's both and I can parse around a 100k and others when it a may be only Thumb(s) and finger(s) on both hands, so HA'ing and movement only gets me 60K. Take of 25%'ish for actual content ,so 75k & 45K. Just to add I have to play on a modded gamepad and use other aids.

Again, I want to enjoy ESO at my level and others to enjoy whatever they want. I don't want to be punished for being me, if that makes sense?

Edit for me being me.

The logic is not applicable to normal mode dungeons, trials, or arenas. That is not even the issue.

I have paid the same as 'you' but 'you' are dictating how I enjoy the game.
The 'you' that runs by and 1-hit the foe I am working to kill dictates my enjoyment.
The 'you' that tell me to 'get gud' before I attempt to play a group dungeon is dictating my enjoyment.
The 'you' that herds every mob in a public dungeon without stopping to kill is dictating how I enjoy the game.
The 'you' that over farms the overland resources are dictating how I enjoy the game.
The 'you' that stands AFK at a delve/dungeon boss with their companion, allowing the companion to kill the boss each time it spawns and collect via auto loot, is dictating how I enjoy the game.

I have heard so many times players say 'that is not happening' or 'I have never had that problem.' It IS happening. It IS a problem. Especially for the players that are trying to quest to play the story rather than farm (whether it be xp, gold, or leads.)

How would you safeguard the beginner players and lower level players that are questing from the bad or disruptive behavior of those who would take advantage of the ease of the normal overland? Would you even care?

BagOfBadgers · August 26

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Before I say anything, I don't want overland to be made harder for for everyone as I know the majority of players are happy as it (maybe made even easier) and I would rather it stays at the difficulty level it is now, rather than force everyone to more diffcult overland, the same as it's now Saying that I would make massive use of a OPTIONAL Vet overland separate instance!

As someone who enjoys overland content but can Flail, Beam/2 HA attacks and kill most things/end of story boss that I encounter, why do I need to nerf myself to have enjoyment? Because it seems that by some of the posts of late, me being experienced and having high DPS/Survivability is not agreeable with others playstyles as, TBH, overland is trivial difficulty to me. But if I see others coming to WB/Delve Boss/Public Dungeon Boss I'll tag it and block so others can tag it also, so I'm not “that” player.

I have paid the same amount of funds and the right “to play as I want” ZOStm, and enjoy content as much as anyone else, don't I? I'm not shouting “Get Gud” is the only answer to overland difficulty. It seems reasonable that others have have access to a more challenging overland experience (Crags level off difficult would be a good starting point, and no I don't mean another crags zone, devs!) and by what has been posted some would rather us Vet players, naffed off any ways to the 4 new Dungeons/1 new Trial vet hm's a year that we get .

So in summery:

I would like a Vet Difficulty overland.

I want it optional.

I don't want to force others into a level of difficulty that they don't want.

I just want to enjoy the game as anyone else without having to nerf toons to do it.

If ZOS can do all that I would be happy, if it all makes sense. I want to have fun, as much as anyone else in game, is the reasonable request I make.

PS I'm free to play whatever instance I chose as my disabilties vary day - day/hour-hour.

I say no to that. There is no reason why a player should have twice the options as an average player. If one chooses to play in hard mode, then they should have to stay in that mode whether farming, questing, or dungeon running account wide. There should be a limited number of times one can change modes in case the hard mode is more difficult than they believed, they should be able to move back to normal mode. Players should not be able to switch back and forth or have some characters in one mode and other characters in another mode.

What you are proposing is a level restricted game. ESO was kind of like this (not exactly) before One Tamriel. They changed it for a reason (so players could play with their friends).

Yes. If higher levels get a fresh game level to play and still return to the normal level to farm resources in overland and dungeons, then the issue of lower levels having their fights interfered with does not go away. So, only the ELITE get what they want and the others, who pay the same to play as the elites, get nothing but more toxic behavior in from high levels that farm in quest areas, herd in quest areas, delves, and public dungeons.

How to call someone a "Toxic ELITE" with out calling someone "Toxic ELITE", noice

. By the by, I'm not that player, I go out of my way to ensure I have little to no impact on others & to be honest most of the players I know at “Toxic ELITE” level are the same. I know the damage/skills I can be disruptive hence my behaviour around others and I don't want anything to do with TE's.

I'll repeat what I have said. I want to have the same fun as you but for that to happen I need a bigger challenge. Otherwise all I can do is cheese overland and that gets boring real quick. It's one of the reasons I am playing ESO less and less.

BagOfBadgers · August 26

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Applying that logic then, once you move to vet Dungeon/Trials/Arenas, and after that HM's you are tied to that difficulty? Um no.

So in your world if you grow as player you are not allowed to drop back and help guild'es or friends in standard difficulty?

Yeah, the changes ZOS made in “One Tamriel” shows the that playing with friends and others was desired.

I don't know how to say this politely. I have paid the same as you and I don't dictate how you enjoy the ESO. I want that protected so “average” (what ever that means?) are not affected!

I just want to enjoy ESO at my level also. It's just reasonable to be able to toggle, at will, and for me the difficulty I choose would depend how much use I have of my hands at the time, One day it's both and I can parse around a 100k and others when it a may be only Thumb(s) and finger(s) on both hands, so HA'ing and movement only gets me 60K. Take of 25%'ish for actual content ,so 75k & 45K. Just to add I have to play on a modded gamepad and use other aids.

Again, I want to enjoy ESO at my level and others to enjoy whatever they want. I don't want to be punished for being me, if that makes sense?

Edit for me being me.

The logic is not applicable to normal mode dungeons, trials, or arenas. That is not even the issue.

I have paid the same as 'you' but 'you' are dictating how I enjoy the game. Nope. I want your playstyle protected.
The 'you' that runs by and 1-hit the foe I am working to kill dictates my enjoyment. Nope, not me
The 'you' that tell me to 'get gud' before I attempt to play a group dungeon is dictating my enjoyment. [i]Nope, not me[/i]
The 'you' that herds every mob in a public dungeon without stopping to kill is dictating how I enjoy the game. [i]Nope, not me[/i]
The 'you' that over farms the overland resources are dictating how I enjoy the game. Nope, not me
The 'you' that stands AFK at a delve/dungeon boss with their companion, allowing the companion to kill the boss each time it spawns and collect via auto loot, is dictating how I enjoy the game. [i]Nope, not me[/i]

I have heard so many times players say 'that is not happening' or 'I have never had that problem.' It IS happening. It IS a problem. Especially for the players that are trying to quest to play the story rather than farm (whether it be xp, gold, or leads.)

How would you safeguard the beginner players and lower level players that are questing from the bad or disruptive behavior of those who would take advantage of the ease of the normal overland? Would you even care?

Yep I care. I have said I want your and others playstyles PROTECTED!

You're projecting your difficulties on to me and that's not fair. I'm not that player. In a random Dungeon I'll ask if there are questers and that I'll wait for them to quest. I'm in and out of the instances you state, as the only reason I'll be in there is for daily's and again if I see that others need the boss I WON'T NUKE IT, I'll wait! Do you know why I behave the way I do, it's not difficult, I was low level when I started playing, just like everyone starts and I know how annoying it's to have “Super Player” run pass and kill the thing that I need, so I had to waste 10 mins awaiting for it to spawn back. So I do know there are arse hats out there.

My level of play overworld is soloing stuff in DLC areas, be that world bosses, incursions, Dragons, Harrow Storms, etc, most of it I can clear on my own, even without a companion (they're dead most of the time TBH) and moving in to tris/hm's on the latest group content. I get the biggest buzz when I can help people with their gameplay, you know, helping with gear runs, teaching mechs, helping improve their Tanking/Healing/DPS and helping them get more out of ESO but alas, I'm not allowed to have anything more difficult in overland without some pain. Hoo hum. If you ever need help I'm on PCNA but I don't expect to hear from you. Oh well.

Ps. I do writs to get the resources I need. Transmutes, if I need them, I PvP/do Trials the most fun way. I get as fed up with speed runners as much as the next person.

shadoza · August 26

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Applying that logic then, once you move to vet Dungeon/Trials/Arenas, and after that HM's you are tied to that difficulty? Um no.

So in your world if you grow as player you are not allowed to drop back and help guild'es or friends in standard difficulty?

Yeah, the changes ZOS made in “One Tamriel” shows the that playing with friends and others was desired.

I don't know how to say this politely. I have paid the same as you and I don't dictate how you enjoy the ESO. I want that protected so “average” (what ever that means?) are not affected!

I just want to enjoy ESO at my level also. It's just reasonable to be able to toggle, at will, and for me the difficulty I choose would depend how much use I have of my hands at the time, One day it's both and I can parse around a 100k and others when it a may be only Thumb(s) and finger(s) on both hands, so HA'ing and movement only gets me 60K. Take of 25%'ish for actual content ,so 75k & 45K. Just to add I have to play on a modded gamepad and use other aids.

Again, I want to enjoy ESO at my level and others to enjoy whatever they want. I don't want to be punished for being me, if that makes sense?

Edit for me being me.

The logic is not applicable to normal mode dungeons, trials, or arenas. That is not even the issue.

I have paid the same as 'you' but 'you' are dictating how I enjoy the game. Nope. I want your playstyle protected.
The 'you' that runs by and 1-hit the foe I am working to kill dictates my enjoyment. Nope, not me
The 'you' that tell me to 'get gud' before I attempt to play a group dungeon is dictating my enjoyment. [i]Nope, not me[/i]
The 'you' that herds every mob in a public dungeon without stopping to kill is dictating how I enjoy the game. [i]Nope, not me[/i]
The 'you' that over farms the overland resources are dictating how I enjoy the game. Nope, not me
The 'you' that stands AFK at a delve/dungeon boss with their companion, allowing the companion to kill the boss each time it spawns and collect via auto loot, is dictating how I enjoy the game. [i]Nope, not me[/i]

I have heard so many times players say 'that is not happening' or 'I have never had that problem.' It IS happening. It IS a problem. Especially for the players that are trying to quest to play the story rather than farm (whether it be xp, gold, or leads.)

How would you safeguard the beginner players and lower level players that are questing from the bad or disruptive behavior of those who would take advantage of the ease of the normal overland? Would you even care?

Yep I care. I have said I want your and others playstyles PROTECTED!

You're projecting your difficulties on to me and that's not fair. I'm not that player. In a random Dungeon I'll ask if there are questers and that I'll wait for them to quest. I'm in and out of the instances you state, as the only reason I'll be in there is for daily's and again if I see that others need the boss I WON'T NUKE IT, I'll wait! Do you know why I behave the way I do, it's not difficult, I was low level when I started playing, just like everyone starts and I know how annoying it's to have “Super Player” run pass and kill the thing that I need, so I had to waste 10 mins awaiting for it to spawn back. So I do know there are arse hats out there.

My level of play overworld is soloing stuff in DLC areas, be that world bosses, incursions, Dragons, Harrow Storms, etc, most of it I can clear on my own, even without a companion (they're dead most of the time TBH) and moving in to tris/hm's on the latest group content. I get the biggest buzz when I can help people with their gameplay, you know, helping with gear runs, teaching mechs, helping improve their Tanking/Healing/DPS and helping them get more out of ESO but alas, I'm not allowed to have anything more difficult in overland without some pain. Hoo hum. If you ever need help I'm on PCNA but I don't expect to hear from you. Oh well.

Ps. I do writs to get the resources I need. Transmutes, if I need them, I PvP/do Trials the most fun way. I get as fed up with speed runners as much as the next person.

Forgive, I placed the 'you' in single quotes to demonstrate a general use of the word rather than a specific you.

You are correct, you will not hear me ask for help. Haven't done that in near a decade because one can never know what they will get in a stranger. I avoid group dungeons because there is way too much drama there. I do run a low level character (level 21) but I also have a medium level (CP 1000) however, I do not have the gear, pots, or bonus items that group players have so I am playing on the lower side of that CP 1k.

It would be nice if everyone respected other players but that just doesn't happen often enough. I think putting delves and public dungeons in instances would be the answer; however, some players don't like that idea. I do not understand why.

I do not know why players herd /farm quest area mobs so I have no suggestion for that issue.

twisttop138 · August 26

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Before I say anything, I don't want overland to be made harder for for everyone as I know the majority of players are happy as it (maybe made even easier) and I would rather it stays at the difficulty level it is now, rather than force everyone to more diffcult overland, the same as it's now Saying that I would make massive use of a OPTIONAL Vet overland separate instance!

As someone who enjoys overland content but can Flail, Beam/2 HA attacks and kill most things/end of story boss that I encounter, why do I need to nerf myself to have enjoyment? Because it seems that by some of the posts of late, me being experienced and having high DPS/Survivability is not agreeable with others playstyles as, TBH, overland is trivial difficulty to me. But if I see others coming to WB/Delve Boss/Public Dungeon Boss I'll tag it and block so others can tag it also, so I'm not “that” player.

I have paid the same amount of funds and the right “to play as I want” ZOStm, and enjoy content as much as anyone else, don't I? I'm not shouting “Get Gud” is the only answer to overland difficulty. It seems reasonable that others have have access to a more challenging overland experience (Crags level off difficult would be a good starting point, and no I don't mean another crags zone, devs!) and by what has been posted some would rather us Vet players, naffed off any ways to the 4 new Dungeons/1 new Trial vet hm's a year that we get .

So in summery:

I would like a Vet Difficulty overland.

I want it optional.

I don't want to force others into a level of difficulty that they don't want.

I just want to enjoy the game as anyone else without having to nerf toons to do it.

If ZOS can do all that I would be happy, if it all makes sense. I want to have fun, as much as anyone else in game, is the reasonable request I make.

PS I'm free to play whatever instance I chose as my disabilties vary day - day/hour-hour.

I say no to that. There is no reason why a player should have twice the options as an average player. If one chooses to play in hard mode, then they should have to stay in that mode whether farming, questing, or dungeon running account wide. There should be a limited number of times one can change modes in case the hard mode is more difficult than they believed, they should be able to move back to normal mode. Players should not be able to switch back and forth or have some characters in one mode and other characters in another mode.

What you are proposing is a level restricted game. ESO was kind of like this (not exactly) before One Tamriel. They changed it for a reason (so players could play with their friends).

Yes. If higher levels get a fresh game level to play and still return to the normal level to farm resources in overland and dungeons, then the issue of lower levels having their fights interfered with does not go away. So, only the ELITE get what they want and the others, who pay the same to play as the elites, get nothing but more toxic behavior in from high levels that farm in quest areas, herd in quest areas, delves, and public dungeons.

That's for sure not going to happen. We can all want what we want for this, or oppose what we want. But our strong no or yes mean nothing really. It's good to make your opinion heard but the devs will do what they are going to do. We're all just gonna have to wait and see but looking at the rest of the game, I'm thinking there's zero shot they lock anyone in a game mode. Optional is their goal as they said. Do you really see them limiting how people can play?

SilverBride · August 26

shadoza wrote: »

I think putting delves and public dungeons in instances would be the answer; however, some players don't like that idea. I do not understand why.

I don't like that idea for 2 reasons.

I don't want to see a multiplayer game turned into a single player game, and that would be a big step toward that.

This would make things way more difficult for the players that already find overland challenging because they would have to find groups for these like we do for dungeons etc.. The way it is now we almost always run into other players fighting the delve and public dungeon bosses so the help we need is already there.

Seaviy · August 26

By the way, we already have a system that affects the complexity of overland content: champion points. However, they only work in one direction, making the easy difficulty level easier.
Considering recent posts from players saying the CP cap needs to be raised, maybe we need new options specifically for overland content. As I wrote above, personal difficulty settings are best suited to the game.
And negative modifiers in CP are something that could be used.

disky · August 27

Seaviy wrote: »

By the way, we already have a system that affects the complexity of overland content: champion points. However, they only work in one direction, making the easy difficulty level easier.
Considering recent posts from players saying the CP cap needs to be raised, maybe we need new options specifically for overland content. As I wrote above, personal difficulty settings are best suited to the game.
And negative modifiers in CP are something that could be used.

One issue I have with champion points is that after collecting enough of them it feels kind of pointless to continue, and so it feels like this might be a good idea at first because it would give the player a reason to utilize the points which they really have no use for. You could also tie those challenge options to rewards if ZOS intends to provide them. It could work. However, the issue I have with this idea is that, for those players who don't have enough points to both maintain their build and use the challenge options, that would become a hassle and would require a significant amount of time just to grind out those points so they can experience the game in a way which feels challenging to them. I don't think it should be that difficult to start using a system that makes the game feel good to play.

colossalvoids · August 27

Secondary tree to customise your own experience kinda sounds nice, if you're getting points in both simultaneously making progression satisfying tying downsides with upsides in their newly adopted "kiss curse" way. But still leaves new player experience out of the picture as it's as much new player's issue as a "vet's" one.

Tariq9898 · September 4

Now that I’m thinking about it… a debuff setting might be a better option because it’s more flexible! 😅

There could be different tiers of debuffs. For example:

- Level 1 could be the equivalent of Normal Vateshran.
- Level 2 - normal dungeon.
- Level 3 - vet Vateshran (3rd portal)
- Level 4 - vet dungeons
- Etc. etc

Not only is it optional and incredibly flexible for multiple types of players, it also allows newer players to ease in to the game’s mechanics.

Someone also came up with a creative idea of a method to debuff. Which is making a bargain with Daedric Princes. An example could be making a deal with Herma Mora for more rewards but at the cost of nerfing you. And there could be different tiers and levels to that, depending on how desperate, ambitious, or hungry you are!