Overland Content Feedback Thread

ESO_player123 · August 17

shadoza wrote: »

Last day, I created a new character in an attempt to discover how to get to that place where I could choose my starting point. I remember I was there once but cannot recall how that came to be. I thought it a great idea. If you already completed the tutorial, get the option to skip it and end in a room where there are several gates into the world. Pick one and start there. A skip took me directly to the map of a chosen alliance (couldn't start without choosing.) A play through took me to the same place after the tutorial. I cannot know if I am doing something wrong or if the feature was removed.

Since a few posters claim they can play the entire game without gear and CP points, I decided to mess around before deleting the test characters.
The tutorial character (who had to have a bow made because I couldn't find one in the cold harbor,) I assigned CP points. I only have 900+ so, not a lot of point since they are split between three sections, it didn't take long to go through them. I striped off weapons and gear from the tutorial, put on a costume for modesty, and jumped into a fight on the starter island. Punching was not too bad (about 3200 on an Alit.) A friend who was watching this test said, "Alits are stupid, try it on a group of human foes." I couldn't find a group of human foes on the island. In fact, it was very difficult to find a foe target other than alits on the entire island.
I said, 'let's try a tougher region. I went to the Reach and dropped a recover pot. I was able to kill things there, mostly the dogs but I fought a couple of humans. Took a while as my attacks were not very hard. I was killed by a troll after a short fight.

The skip character had nothing. No gear, no CP, no weapons, no pots. In the starter island, the Alit took 2100 damage per punch. The fight took longer and I could see my HP being depleted. Now, starter islands are an extension of the tutorials, really little more than an introduction to the story line.
So, like the previous test character, I went to the same location in the Reach. I fought the dogs, my life bar went down rather swiftly, but I didn't die. Looked for the troll or a human target. Didn't find a human target, but punched a rabbit and what might have been an elk. Both died; one gave meat. I jumped off a cliff near the water, almost died from fall damage, but was able to regen after standing around a while. Found a troll, I don't know if it were the same troll. I did not turn my show numbers on, so I cannot say what the total HP was. I can say, with a fair amount of confidence, that it looked like the troll healed itself by farting. I punched it and saw no damage being done. It hit me and did a fair amount of damage. I don't remember the number but it was about 20% of my health. I was dodging and moving and punching but each time that troll produced the green cloud, he was healing and I was still dying. I could not regen fast enough to survive the attacks. I died.

I find the game is not too easy. There are so many options that it is still entertaining after 10 years.
Wish I didn't have to waste so much game time waiting for resources or foes to spawn after a farming player and/or group cleans them out in overland and in overland dungeons. If the suggested difficulty overlay happens and the 'vet' levels are still allowed to farm the lower difficulty, nothing will change. The game will continue to be top heavy and the balance will shift to a point of no return (TSW.) Hope that doesn't happen here.

The tutorial with the gates (the Balfiera Island) was removed after update 44. Now, the new chars again start at the Wailing Prison in Coldharbour. IMO it's more fitting for new characters, and it's more reasonable from the story standpoint. The old players can skip it and be on their merry way to where they want to be.

I'm not sure why you are punching the enemies if you are testing a new player's experience. The game does not support unarmed combat and is not intended to play this way. A new player would pick up whatever the game drops for them. The main quest line makes a good job of offering starting gear as rewards. This is what I have been using on the new alt that I created to test a no red/blue CP start of the game. That + whatever else I pick up in overland or in the daily login rewards. So, my new toon is in mismatched gear, just like any new played would play it (just like I did when I actually started the game).

shadoza · August 17

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Last day, I created a new character in an attempt to discover how to get to that place where I could choose my starting point. I remember I was there once but cannot recall how that came to be. I thought it a great idea. If you already completed the tutorial, get the option to skip it and end in a room where there are several gates into the world. Pick one and start there. A skip took me directly to the map of a chosen alliance (couldn't start without choosing.) A play through took me to the same place after the tutorial. I cannot know if I am doing something wrong or if the feature was removed.

Since a few posters claim they can play the entire game without gear and CP points, I decided to mess around before deleting the test characters.
The tutorial character (who had to have a bow made because I couldn't find one in the cold harbor,) I assigned CP points. I only have 900+ so, not a lot of point since they are split between three sections, it didn't take long to go through them. I striped off weapons and gear from the tutorial, put on a costume for modesty, and jumped into a fight on the starter island. Punching was not too bad (about 3200 on an Alit.) A friend who was watching this test said, "Alits are stupid, try it on a group of human foes." I couldn't find a group of human foes on the island. In fact, it was very difficult to find a foe target other than alits on the entire island.
I said, 'let's try a tougher region. I went to the Reach and dropped a recover pot. I was able to kill things there, mostly the dogs but I fought a couple of humans. Took a while as my attacks were not very hard. I was killed by a troll after a short fight.

The skip character had nothing. No gear, no CP, no weapons, no pots. In the starter island, the Alit took 2100 damage per punch. The fight took longer and I could see my HP being depleted. Now, starter islands are an extension of the tutorials, really little more than an introduction to the story line.
So, like the previous test character, I went to the same location in the Reach. I fought the dogs, my life bar went down rather swiftly, but I didn't die. Looked for the troll or a human target. Didn't find a human target, but punched a rabbit and what might have been an elk. Both died; one gave meat. I jumped off a cliff near the water, almost died from fall damage, but was able to regen after standing around a while. Found a troll, I don't know if it were the same troll. I did not turn my show numbers on, so I cannot say what the total HP was. I can say, with a fair amount of confidence, that it looked like the troll healed itself by farting. I punched it and saw no damage being done. It hit me and did a fair amount of damage. I don't remember the number but it was about 20% of my health. I was dodging and moving and punching but each time that troll produced the green cloud, he was healing and I was still dying. I could not regen fast enough to survive the attacks. I died.

I find the game is not too easy. There are so many options that it is still entertaining after 10 years.
Wish I didn't have to waste so much game time waiting for resources or foes to spawn after a farming player and/or group cleans them out in overland and in overland dungeons. If the suggested difficulty overlay happens and the 'vet' levels are still allowed to farm the lower difficulty, nothing will change. The game will continue to be top heavy and the balance will shift to a point of no return (TSW.) Hope that doesn't happen here.

The tutorial with the gates (the Balfiera Island) was removed after update 44. Now, the new chars again start at the Wailing Prison in Coldharbour. IMO it's more fitting for new characters, and it's more reasonable from the story standpoint. The old players can skip it and be on their merry way to where they want to be.

I'm not sure why you are punching the enemies if you are testing a new player's experience. The game does not support unarmed combat and is not intended to play this way. A new player would pick up whatever the game drops for them. The main quest line makes a good job of offering starting gear as rewards. This is what I have been using on the new alt that I created to test a no red/blue CP start of the game. That + whatever else I pick up in overland or in the daily login rewards. So, my new toon is in mismatched gear, just like any new played would play it (just like I did when I actually started the game).

Why I am punching foes is in my post: "Since a few posters claim they can play the entire game without gear and CP points, I decided to mess around before deleting the test characters." I was going to delete the character anyway so I decided to put the claim to my own test.

Since I could not find the gates, I figured they were removed. Thank you for the confirmation.

ESO_player123 · August 17

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Last day, I created a new character in an attempt to discover how to get to that place where I could choose my starting point. I remember I was there once but cannot recall how that came to be. I thought it a great idea. If you already completed the tutorial, get the option to skip it and end in a room where there are several gates into the world. Pick one and start there. A skip took me directly to the map of a chosen alliance (couldn't start without choosing.) A play through took me to the same place after the tutorial. I cannot know if I am doing something wrong or if the feature was removed.

Since a few posters claim they can play the entire game without gear and CP points, I decided to mess around before deleting the test characters.
The tutorial character (who had to have a bow made because I couldn't find one in the cold harbor,) I assigned CP points. I only have 900+ so, not a lot of point since they are split between three sections, it didn't take long to go through them. I striped off weapons and gear from the tutorial, put on a costume for modesty, and jumped into a fight on the starter island. Punching was not too bad (about 3200 on an Alit.) A friend who was watching this test said, "Alits are stupid, try it on a group of human foes." I couldn't find a group of human foes on the island. In fact, it was very difficult to find a foe target other than alits on the entire island.
I said, 'let's try a tougher region. I went to the Reach and dropped a recover pot. I was able to kill things there, mostly the dogs but I fought a couple of humans. Took a while as my attacks were not very hard. I was killed by a troll after a short fight.

The skip character had nothing. No gear, no CP, no weapons, no pots. In the starter island, the Alit took 2100 damage per punch. The fight took longer and I could see my HP being depleted. Now, starter islands are an extension of the tutorials, really little more than an introduction to the story line.
So, like the previous test character, I went to the same location in the Reach. I fought the dogs, my life bar went down rather swiftly, but I didn't die. Looked for the troll or a human target. Didn't find a human target, but punched a rabbit and what might have been an elk. Both died; one gave meat. I jumped off a cliff near the water, almost died from fall damage, but was able to regen after standing around a while. Found a troll, I don't know if it were the same troll. I did not turn my show numbers on, so I cannot say what the total HP was. I can say, with a fair amount of confidence, that it looked like the troll healed itself by farting. I punched it and saw no damage being done. It hit me and did a fair amount of damage. I don't remember the number but it was about 20% of my health. I was dodging and moving and punching but each time that troll produced the green cloud, he was healing and I was still dying. I could not regen fast enough to survive the attacks. I died.

I find the game is not too easy. There are so many options that it is still entertaining after 10 years.
Wish I didn't have to waste so much game time waiting for resources or foes to spawn after a farming player and/or group cleans them out in overland and in overland dungeons. If the suggested difficulty overlay happens and the 'vet' levels are still allowed to farm the lower difficulty, nothing will change. The game will continue to be top heavy and the balance will shift to a point of no return (TSW.) Hope that doesn't happen here.

The tutorial with the gates (the Balfiera Island) was removed after update 44. Now, the new chars again start at the Wailing Prison in Coldharbour. IMO it's more fitting for new characters, and it's more reasonable from the story standpoint. The old players can skip it and be on their merry way to where they want to be.

I'm not sure why you are punching the enemies if you are testing a new player's experience. The game does not support unarmed combat and is not intended to play this way. A new player would pick up whatever the game drops for them. The main quest line makes a good job of offering starting gear as rewards. This is what I have been using on the new alt that I created to test a no red/blue CP start of the game. That + whatever else I pick up in overland or in the daily login rewards. So, my new toon is in mismatched gear, just like any new played would play it (just like I did when I actually started the game).

Why I am punching foes is in my post: "Since a few posters claim they can play the entire game without gear and CP points, I decided to mess around before deleting the test characters." I was going to delete the character anyway so I decided to put the claim to my own test.

Since I could not find the gates, I figured they were removed. Thank you for the confirmation.

Without gear usually means either weapon only for old characters or mismatched gear for completely new toons.

Lysorris · August 17

You can punch your way through overland content no CP, no items. The only thing you wont kill is world boss.

This is me 10 minutes ago:
https://youtu.be/JZ5sTWo_lbE?si=TwpfUQziVrbGkXU-

I don't know how you can loose any of these encouters. Also I've noticed that on new maps there are barely any human foes. Those ususally use skills etc. This is also a factor why open world content is so easy. Maps are generally empty. I went to Blackwood record and only found Bears and Wolves, and in West Weald I had to run to the very eadge of the map to find human foes. But still, I punched my way through. Gonna start the series, fr, fr.

Tariq9898 · August 17

Lysorris wrote: »

You can punch your way through overland content no CP, no items. The only thing you wont kill is world boss.

This is me 10 minutes ago:
https://youtu.be/JZ5sTWo_lbE?si=TwpfUQziVrbGkXU-

I don't know how you can loose any of these encouters. Also I've noticed that on new maps there are barely any human foes. Those ususally use skills etc. This is also a factor why open world content is so easy. Maps are generally empty. I went to Blackwood record and only found Bears and Wolves, and in West Weald I had to run to the very eadge of the map to find human foes. But still, I punched my way through. Gonna start the series, fr, fr.

Completely unrelated. But watching this made me wish there were martial art skill lines. As a Muay Thai fighter, I would love to just use every square inch of my body as a weapon. Hell, maybe each skill line could draw inspiration from a specific, real life art. One for Muay Thai, another for Wushu, and the last for Kyokushin. So many possibilities here.

Just imagine arming your fists, knees, elbows, and legs with various armaments for damage. And having abilities such as a flying knee, which could have similar purposes to stampede.🥋🥊

But I know the chances of any martial arts classes appearing is less than 0.1%.

shadoza · August 17

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Last day, I created a new character in an attempt to discover how to get to that place where I could choose my starting point. I remember I was there once but cannot recall how that came to be. I thought it a great idea. If you already completed the tutorial, get the option to skip it and end in a room where there are several gates into the world. Pick one and start there. A skip took me directly to the map of a chosen alliance (couldn't start without choosing.) A play through took me to the same place after the tutorial. I cannot know if I am doing something wrong or if the feature was removed.

Since a few posters claim they can play the entire game without gear and CP points, I decided to mess around before deleting the test characters.
The tutorial character (who had to have a bow made because I couldn't find one in the cold harbor,) I assigned CP points. I only have 900+ so, not a lot of point since they are split between three sections, it didn't take long to go through them. I striped off weapons and gear from the tutorial, put on a costume for modesty, and jumped into a fight on the starter island. Punching was not too bad (about 3200 on an Alit.) A friend who was watching this test said, "Alits are stupid, try it on a group of human foes." I couldn't find a group of human foes on the island. In fact, it was very difficult to find a foe target other than alits on the entire island.
I said, 'let's try a tougher region. I went to the Reach and dropped a recover pot. I was able to kill things there, mostly the dogs but I fought a couple of humans. Took a while as my attacks were not very hard. I was killed by a troll after a short fight.

The skip character had nothing. No gear, no CP, no weapons, no pots. In the starter island, the Alit took 2100 damage per punch. The fight took longer and I could see my HP being depleted. Now, starter islands are an extension of the tutorials, really little more than an introduction to the story line.
So, like the previous test character, I went to the same location in the Reach. I fought the dogs, my life bar went down rather swiftly, but I didn't die. Looked for the troll or a human target. Didn't find a human target, but punched a rabbit and what might have been an elk. Both died; one gave meat. I jumped off a cliff near the water, almost died from fall damage, but was able to regen after standing around a while. Found a troll, I don't know if it were the same troll. I did not turn my show numbers on, so I cannot say what the total HP was. I can say, with a fair amount of confidence, that it looked like the troll healed itself by farting. I punched it and saw no damage being done. It hit me and did a fair amount of damage. I don't remember the number but it was about 20% of my health. I was dodging and moving and punching but each time that troll produced the green cloud, he was healing and I was still dying. I could not regen fast enough to survive the attacks. I died.

I find the game is not too easy. There are so many options that it is still entertaining after 10 years.
Wish I didn't have to waste so much game time waiting for resources or foes to spawn after a farming player and/or group cleans them out in overland and in overland dungeons. If the suggested difficulty overlay happens and the 'vet' levels are still allowed to farm the lower difficulty, nothing will change. The game will continue to be top heavy and the balance will shift to a point of no return (TSW.) Hope that doesn't happen here.

The tutorial with the gates (the Balfiera Island) was removed after update 44. Now, the new chars again start at the Wailing Prison in Coldharbour. IMO it's more fitting for new characters, and it's more reasonable from the story standpoint. The old players can skip it and be on their merry way to where they want to be.

I'm not sure why you are punching the enemies if you are testing a new player's experience. The game does not support unarmed combat and is not intended to play this way. A new player would pick up whatever the game drops for them. The main quest line makes a good job of offering starting gear as rewards. This is what I have been using on the new alt that I created to test a no red/blue CP start of the game. That + whatever else I pick up in overland or in the daily login rewards. So, my new toon is in mismatched gear, just like any new played would play it (just like I did when I actually started the game).

Why I am punching foes is in my post: "Since a few posters claim they can play the entire game without gear and CP points, I decided to mess around before deleting the test characters." I was going to delete the character anyway so I decided to put the claim to my own test.

Since I could not find the gates, I figured they were removed. Thank you for the confirmation.

Without gear usually means either weapon only for old characters or mismatched gear for completely new toons.

Without gear, to me, means no gear. If others mean without set or dungeon gear, then I can see why they say they can run overland without gear. My first year, I played the game to the end with only picked up gear.

You are correct that the game was not intended to be played that way. I am done trying to discuss that issue now. I proved to myself that one cannot play the game through while "naked" without dying. So I feel no need to discuss further that issue. There are so many other issues and surprises to discuss regarding overland.

DenverRalphy · August 17

disky wrote: »

I'm curious - how many people actually expect to see anything regarding overland challenge this year? It's mid-August and nothing I've seen has even hinted at anything coming since Matt's letter, including the 2025 roadmap. "We're working on it" doesn't really give me much confidence, I'm sorry to say. I really wish we could see something more about this from ZOS in the very near future.

I'm relatively confident that the alluded to "optional" challenging content was probably refering to the Writhing Wall event. I'm of the opinion that the current state of this whole discussion is the result of players pouncing upon a rather ambiguous statement and making more of it than it actually is.

disky · August 18

DenverRalphy wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I'm curious - how many people actually expect to see anything regarding overland challenge this year? It's mid-August and nothing I've seen has even hinted at anything coming since Matt's letter, including the 2025 roadmap. "We're working on it" doesn't really give me much confidence, I'm sorry to say. I really wish we could see something more about this from ZOS in the very near future.

I'm relatively confident that the alluded to "optional" challenging content was probably refering to the Writhing Wall event. I'm of the opinion that the current state of this whole discussion is the result of players pouncing upon a rather ambiguous statement and making more of it than it actually is.

I don't agree with you, but if that's what it turns out to be, if they are asked where this feature went and they reply with "We provided it! Go check out the Writhing Wall!" then I think that will be the last straw for a lot of players. ZOS has years of feedback about what players are expecting and if they're that tone-deaf then it's a sign of decline.

disky · August 18

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Lysorris wrote: »

You can punch your way through overland content no CP, no items. The only thing you wont kill is world boss.

This is me 10 minutes ago:
https://youtu.be/JZ5sTWo_lbE?si=TwpfUQziVrbGkXU-

I don't know how you can loose any of these encouters. Also I've noticed that on new maps there are barely any human foes. Those ususally use skills etc. This is also a factor why open world content is so easy. Maps are generally empty. I went to Blackwood record and only found Bears and Wolves, and in West Weald I had to run to the very eadge of the map to find human foes. But still, I punched my way through. Gonna start the series, fr, fr.

Completely unrelated. But watching this made me wish there were martial art skill lines. As a Muay Thai fighter, I would love to just use every square inch of my body as a weapon. Hell, maybe each skill line could draw inspiration from a specific, real life art. One for Muay Thai, another for Wushu, and the last for Kyokushin. So many possibilities here.

Just imagine arming your fists, knees, elbows, and legs with various armaments for damage. And having abilities such as a flying knee, which could have similar purposes to stampede.🥋🥊

But I know the chances of any martial arts classes appearing is less than 0.1%.

More weapon skill lines should be possible without the need for additional art and it continues to confound me that they don't do them. I want to believe that they're next in line after subclassing was implemented because it seems like those features would require the same staff, but who knows. There are definitely multiple skill lines they could create without the need for new art though, which has always been the primary argument against it.

disky · August 18

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Here's a reminder of the most recent statements on this matter.

December 2024 Studio Director letter for the general plan for 2025

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/670691/studio-director-s-letter-2025-beyond/p1

December 2024 statement from Kevin elaborating that we'd know more in 2025 about harder overland.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we should note that we haven't announced what overland changes are yet. We'll have more information to share next year. We wanted to just note that there will be changes to overland difficulty generally. What form that takes will be shared next year.

April 2025 statements about it still being planned to come out for this year's content pass timeline and why.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As of right now, the goal is to still have this out during the content pass timeline. But if that changes, we will update once we have a clear picture if anything changes.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Totally get it. Understand where you are coming from. Just want to clarify here that we have a team dedicated to overland, so it is getting the focus and time needed. This is an important feature and we want to make sure this is done correctly. So there is a team dedicated to this. Some of the features that you are seeing today have been in the works for a bit. So that is why you are seeing them today. We hope to have more info in the future to share about overland.

And finally someone kindly linked where Rich they said they know some people already struggle so the plan is to make it optional during that April direct stream. So this is the part in the April 2025 Direct Livestream on Twitch where they said that.

Arunei wrote: »

I was gonna toss this in the other thread that just got nuked, didn't think to do it back on the day of the streams lol, but here's a link to where they touch on the harder Overland difficulty if anyone who hasn't seen the stream wants to hear/see for themselves:

Video will start at where they mention it

That's true, thanks for the reminder. However, the only reason we got that info was because we pressed ZOS about this after nothing was mention on-stream about it, which isn't a good sign. And as I said "we're working on it" doesn't exactly instill confidence in me. I want something a little more substantial at this point in the year if the plan is to release within three and a half months. It's a big deal.

spartaxoxo · August 18

disky wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Here's a reminder of the most recent statements on this matter.

December 2024 Studio Director letter for the general plan for 2025

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/670691/studio-director-s-letter-2025-beyond/p1

December 2024 statement from Kevin elaborating that we'd know more in 2025 about harder overland.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we should note that we haven't announced what overland changes are yet. We'll have more information to share next year. We wanted to just note that there will be changes to overland difficulty generally. What form that takes will be shared next year.

April 2025 statements about it still being planned to come out for this year's content pass timeline and why.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As of right now, the goal is to still have this out during the content pass timeline. But if that changes, we will update once we have a clear picture if anything changes.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Totally get it. Understand where you are coming from. Just want to clarify here that we have a team dedicated to overland, so it is getting the focus and time needed. This is an important feature and we want to make sure this is done correctly. So there is a team dedicated to this. Some of the features that you are seeing today have been in the works for a bit. So that is why you are seeing them today. We hope to have more info in the future to share about overland.

And finally someone kindly linked where Rich they said they know some people already struggle so the plan is to make it optional during that April direct stream. So this is the part in the April 2025 Direct Livestream on Twitch where they said that.

Arunei wrote: »

I was gonna toss this in the other thread that just got nuked, didn't think to do it back on the day of the streams lol, but here's a link to where they touch on the harder Overland difficulty if anyone who hasn't seen the stream wants to hear/see for themselves:

Video will start at where they mention it

That's true, thanks for the reminder. However, the only reason we got that info was because we pressed ZOS about this after nothing was mention on-stream about it, which isn't a good sign. And as I said "we're working on it" doesn't exactly instill confidence in me. I want something a little more substantial at this point in the year if the plan is to release within three and a half months. It's a big deal.

Yeah. I'm glad that Rich decided to clarify things near the very end but it does seem like he was only responding to all the people who had expected feedback during it. Which is pretty crazy to me because people have become use to their content cadence and they know that. The stuff teased in December, we get more information Q2. Players have that expectation because it's how it's generally worked for years. They also know this is one of the most highly requested and debated issues the community has asked for years. So, that there was no planned address makes me feel a bit apprehensive. Although, credit where it's due he at least dispelled a lot of anxiety by letting us know it would most likely be optional.

When they talk about wanting to improve communication, this thread and their responses to this topic is a prime example of how not handle things.

AlexanderDeLarge · August 20

Sorry but I gotta push back on the whole 'difficulty is subjective' thing. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but that's as preposterous to me as saying the sun is purple and the earth is flat.

Where's the difficulty in the footage generously provided by @Lysorris

https://youtu.be/JZ5sTWo_lbE?si=TwpfUQziVrbGkXU-
or my favorite footage of the naked, statless level 3 AFKing in front of a bear mauling them for a minute and a half?

https://youtu.be/CLYwxXFqEZk

I get that the game feels "harder" as you level because players are upscaled to CP160 instead of downscaled to the level of zones prior to One Tamriel. But if the average player is genuinely struggling with most of the overland content that’s designed for solo play, then ZOS has a much bigger issue than simply adding optional difficulty options. That suggests casual players are reaching level cap without ever really learning how the game works. Especially how gear functions.

The problem is that this lack of understanding only becomes obvious when they queue for a random dungeon and suddenly face content that requires even a little bit of knowledge or skill. Then suddenly it's like they're playing a different game entirely that treats itself as a sink or swim scenario. I'm of the opinion that a good progression system slowly ramps up the difficulty and you're punished for ignoring the systems slowly being made available to you. Why even have the 1-50 experience if this is what it's going to be?

It’s absurd that the entire playerbase had to deal with a watered-down overland, the vast majority of what we've paid for, and people will defend it under the guise of accessibility just because the game doesn’t properly teach its own systems (or because some players ignore and refuse to read the tutorial it provides).

Attorneyatlawl · August 20

@AlexanderDeLarge, the game not teaching well and low overland difficulty are by far two of the biggest issues and have been for a long time I made a thread about it a very long time ago relating my experiences. I agree with you completely.

It doesn't teach the mechanics and require them slowly to help people play as intended. It just throws them into the deep end after a mind numbing leveling process.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/194333/on-the-storyline-pvp-leveling-forced-veteran-questing-and-the-game-teaching-people-how-to-play

Tariq9898 · August 20

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Sorry but I gotta push back on the whole 'difficulty is subjective' thing. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but that's as preposterous to me as saying the sun is purple and the earth is flat.

Where's the difficulty in the footage generously provided by @Lysorris
https://youtu.be/JZ5sTWo_lbE?si=TwpfUQziVrbGkXU-
or my favorite footage of the naked, statless level 3 AFKing in front of a bear mauling them for a minute and a half?
https://youtu.be/CLYwxXFqEZk

I get that the game feels "harder" as you level because players are upscaled to CP160 instead of downscaled to the level of zones prior to One Tamriel. But if the average player is genuinely struggling with most of the overland content that’s designed for solo play, then ZOS has a much bigger issue than simply adding optional difficulty options. That suggests casual players are reaching level cap without ever really learning how the game works. Especially how gear functions.

The problem is that this lack of understanding only becomes obvious when they queue for a random dungeon and suddenly face content that requires even a little bit of knowledge or skill. Then suddenly it's like they're playing a different game entirely that treats itself as a sink or swim scenario. I'm of the opinion that a good progression system slowly ramps up the difficulty and you're punished for ignoring the systems slowly being made available to you. Why even have the 1-50 experience if this is what it's going to be?

It’s absurd that the entire playerbase had to deal with a watered-down overland, the vast majority of what we've paid for, and people will defend it under the guise of accessibility just because the game doesn’t properly teach its own systems (or because some players ignore and refuse to read the tutorial it provides).

Which has always been weird to me. Implementing an optional vet overland improves accessibility by tenfold. Giving more options for old and new, casual and hardcore players.

SilverBride · August 20

Overland is easy for a lot of players. But that is not a bad thiing for everyone. Many of us enjoy it that way. We don't want difficulty in the story. We don't want to learn mechanics while questing... we will learn that in dungeons and trials, which is how it's been in every other MMO I have ever played.

There is a team working on this now so all we can do is wait and see what they come up with.

Pcgamer · August 20

I've been playing eso since launch and I play many alts, I dont want to spend hrs trying to get a skyshard from a public dungeon or delve. Also, I dont want to have to spend hours farming resources cos I have to take longer to kill mobs.
If you want challenging content then do your quests naked and vet dungeons naked.

Go to infinate archives and get challenged.

This game just gets out of balance...those that are in vet trials gear can pulverise anything but not all players are geared like that.

AlexanderDeLarge · August 20

Pcgamer wrote: »

I've been playing eso since launch and I play many alts, I dont want to spend hrs trying to get a skyshard from a public dungeon or delve. Also, I dont want to have to spend hours farming resources cos I have to take longer to kill mobs.

I don't want you to either. Stay in normal overland if you want. See the difference? I'm advocating for choice. You don't want that choice to exist.

If you want challenging content then do your quests naked and vet dungeons naked.
This game just gets out of balance...those that are in vet trials gear can pulverise anything but not all players are geared like that.

There's literally two videos of naked levels 3s on this page doing that and it's borderline impossible to die. Scroll up.

Go to infinate archives and get challenged.

No thanks. I don't want to do instanced content. I want to enjoy the majority of the content I've paid for (overland questing).

Pcgamer · August 20

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Pcgamer wrote: »

I've been playing eso since launch and I play many alts, I dont want to spend hrs trying to get a skyshard from a public dungeon or delve. Also, I dont want to have to spend hours farming resources cos I have to take longer to kill mobs.

I don't want you to either. Stay in normal overland if you want. See the difference? I'm advocating for choice. You don't want that choice to exist.

If you want challenging content then do your quests naked and vet dungeons naked.
This game just gets out of balance...those that are in vet trials gear can pulverise anything but not all players are geared like that.

There's literally two videos of naked levels 3s on this page doing that and it's borderline impossible to die. Scroll up.

Go to infinate archives and get challenged.

No thanks. I don't want to do instanced content. I want to enjoy the majority of the content I've paid for (overland questing).

Gotcha yes thank you. The choice is much appreciated 😊

shadoza · August 20

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Sorry but I gotta push back on the whole 'difficulty is subjective' thing. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but that's as preposterous to me as saying the sun is purple and the earth is flat.

Where's the difficulty in the footage generously provided by @Lysorris
https://youtu.be/JZ5sTWo_lbE?si=TwpfUQziVrbGkXU-
or my favorite footage of the naked, statless level 3 AFKing in front of a bear mauling them for a minute and a half?
https://youtu.be/CLYwxXFqEZk

I get that the game feels "harder" as you level because players are upscaled to CP160 instead of downscaled to the level of zones prior to One Tamriel. But if the average player is genuinely struggling with most of the overland content that’s designed for solo play, then ZOS has a much bigger issue than simply adding optional difficulty options. That suggests casual players are reaching level cap without ever really learning how the game works. Especially how gear functions.

The problem is that this lack of understanding only becomes obvious when they queue for a random dungeon and suddenly face content that requires even a little bit of knowledge or skill. Then suddenly it's like they're playing a different game entirely that treats itself as a sink or swim scenario. I'm of the opinion that a good progression system slowly ramps up the difficulty and you're punished for ignoring the systems slowly being made available to you. Why even have the 1-50 experience if this is what it's going to be?

It’s absurd that the entire playerbase had to deal with a watered-down overland, the vast majority of what we've paid for, and people will defend it under the guise of accessibility just because the game doesn’t properly teach its own systems (or because some players ignore and refuse to read the tutorial it provides).

I am curious how the character has 22,773 Health without assigning attributes. My character didn't have that much health with attribute points. Is the Dragon Knight started with more heath power than other characters?
The second video, the character has some armor on, has 22,902 Health at level 3, no attributes assigned and none in the que. What happened to their attributes?
The videos are questionable as evidence as the actions or activity in the background is not being shown. I took a test character to a location and let a wolf attack. It did very low damage until I engaged in a fight with it. Then it hit harder. Perhaps the lower attack is to save AKF from being killed before they return to the keyboard?

When you say without learning how the game works, are you referencing group dungeons? I do not need to learn the mechanics of a group dungeon to enjoy overland content. If overland held the same non-sense mechanics that group dungeons involve, I would not be playing this game. Perhaps what you need to resolve your complaint there is a training dungeon for group mechanics.

I disagree with your calling overland watered-down. Most players, average base, are not sporting gold armor, weapons, jewelry, pots acquired from trials and group dungeons. Most players, average base, do not turn the game into a math spreadsheet with min/max, rotation, weaving, whatevers . . . they just want to play the over land, the simple dungeons in overland questing and enjoy the story. When I first purchased this game 11 years ago, it was a story-drive MMORPG it is still that. It is not a co-op. It is not Elden Ring. It is not Dark Souls. I don't want it to be.

The problem I have with two difficulty levels for the game, is the same problem that I have with public dungeons and delves. If there is a separate level for those that want a more difficult experience, those same players will still graze the easier fields of the original difficulty. They will still hit the delves and public dungeons for drops. They will still roam the field for resources. They will still killed overland targets for quick experience, resources, and event results. Why is there a need for a more difficult overland if it won't be used as an overland?

Pcgamer · August 20

If the difficulty does get raised for overland then can we please have our survey maps be very close to a wayshrine?
Also can we have our antiquities dig sites be away from mob filled areas.
By all means make those that want the difficulty raised happy but you know the survey maps grind is real so appreciate your consideration of this thank you kindly.

shadoza · August 22

I was in Crimson Cove this day along with a few other players. There was one player that was herding mobs into a a group and taking them out with a spammed magic. They were making laps through that part of the dungeon non-stop for over 30 minutes. I am not certain the player was active. It may have been a bot or character running on a macro.

What aoe/DoT spell requires hopping while casting?

ESO_player123 · August 22

shadoza wrote: »

I was in Crimson Cove this day along with a few other players. There was one player that was herding mobs into a a group and taking them out with a spammed magic. They were making laps through that part of the dungeon non-stop for over 30 minutes. I am not certain the player was active. It may have been a bot or character running on a macro.

What aoe/DoT spell requires hopping while casting?

They do not require hopping, but some players sometimes like to hop. Crimson Cove have conveniently placed mobs for herding, so whenever I visited it I usually have seen at least on person there leveling their lower level toon. I do not know if that was a bot/someone using a macro (as you say) but If you are on a magic toon, then herding is a way to go. That is what I did when I was there.

DenverRalphy · August 22

shadoza wrote: »

What aoe/DoT spell requires hopping while casting?

Grinding PD's for XP/Gold gets really boring. Bunny Hopping is just something to help break the monotony and makes the grind less... grindy.

shadoza · August 22

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I was in Crimson Cove this day along with a few other players. There was one player that was herding mobs into a a group and taking them out with a spammed magic. They were making laps through that part of the dungeon non-stop for over 30 minutes. I am not certain the player was active. It may have been a bot or character running on a macro.

What aoe/DoT spell requires hopping while casting?

They do not require hopping, but some players sometimes like to hop. Crimson Cove have conveniently placed mobs for herding, so whenever I visited it I usually have seen at least on person there leveling their lower level toon. I do not know if that was a bot/someone using a macro (as you say) but If you are on a magic toon, then herding is a way to go. That is what I did when I was there.

Did you stop to fight or just move in a set pattern, spamming magic to kill what you herded and what you didn't kill ran back to its start when your pattern got too far away?
I didn't know if this was normal behavior; I hoped it was not normal behavior. I was running the dungeon with a player who was running a new class for the first time. They were level 18. We were not leveling in the dungeon, he was testing his neco build. He just purchased the class and wasn't sure how effective his decisions were. However, he wanted to leave the dungeon when the hopping, magic spammer kept stealing the mob he was trying to fight. Since he was a lower level, it took longer to kill the mob. He didn't have a chance to complete a kill. We finished the quests and went to a different public dungeon.

ESO_player123 · August 22

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I was in Crimson Cove this day along with a few other players. There was one player that was herding mobs into a a group and taking them out with a spammed magic. They were making laps through that part of the dungeon non-stop for over 30 minutes. I am not certain the player was active. It may have been a bot or character running on a macro.

What aoe/DoT spell requires hopping while casting?

They do not require hopping, but some players sometimes like to hop. Crimson Cove have conveniently placed mobs for herding, so whenever I visited it I usually have seen at least on person there leveling their lower level toon. I do not know if that was a bot/someone using a macro (as you say) but If you are on a magic toon, then herding is a way to go. That is what I did when I was there.

Did you stop to fight or just move in a set pattern, spamming magic to kill what you herded and what you didn't kill ran back to its start when your pattern got too far away?
I didn't know if this was normal behavior; I hoped it was not normal behavior. I was running the dungeon with a player who was running a new class for the first time. They were level 18. We were not leveling in the dungeon, he was testing his neco build. He just purchased the class and wasn't sure how effective his decisions were. However, he wanted to leave the dungeon when the hopping, magic spammer kept stealing the mob he was trying to fight. Since he was a lower level, it took longer to kill the mob. He didn't have a chance to complete a kill. We finished the quests and went to a different public dungeon.

How a player does that depends, well, on the player. Like with any griding activity that has been done for a long time, a player tends to fall into a pattern As a result, the actions are done almost automatically. I personally have not grinded any levels in public dungeons for quite a while (I do RND dailies on new toons for the XP reward with an XP scroll). Nowadays, if I'm in a public dungeon on a new toon, I'm getting the skyshard/skill point or doing a daily for the Mages guild.

Seaviy · August 25

There are already examples of difficulty levels for overland content in other MMOs. This is a personal choice, and such a system may not affect other players. Like flexible buff/debuff on your character which only works in the open world and reduces your damage and increases incoming damage, or has some other additional options. There is no point in dividing the player base. Instance content should remain the same.
You need to start somewhere and then move forward based on player feedback.

Tariq9898 · August 25

Seaviy wrote: »

There are already examples of difficulty levels for overland content in other MMOs. This is a personal choice, and such a system may not affect other players. Like flexible buff/debuff on your character which only works in the open world and reduces your damage and increases incoming damage, or has some other additional options. There is no point in dividing the player base. Instance content should remain the same.
You need to start somewhere and then move forward based on player feedback.

My problem with this is encountering someone playing on normal difficulty and two shotting the boss whom I was feeling the good struggle to kill. I don’t mind seeing other players in Vet overland, but they all have to be on vet overland as well.

Seaviy · August 25

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Seaviy wrote: »

There are already examples of difficulty levels for overland content in other MMOs. This is a personal choice, and such a system may not affect other players. Like flexible buff/debuff on your character which only works in the open world and reduces your damage and increases incoming damage, or has some other additional options. There is no point in dividing the player base. Instance content should remain the same.
You need to start somewhere and then move forward based on player feedback.

My problem with this is encountering someone playing on normal difficulty and two shotting the boss whom I was feeling the good struggle to kill. I don’t mind seeing other players in Vet overland, but they all have to be on vet overland as well.

I am an average player, and in its current state, the overland content seems too easy for me. I agree with you that it negatively affects immersion when you see this difference with others.
Now sometimes I see players who deal half as much damage as I do, mostly newbies. But I also see players who deal х2-х3 more damage than I do. I am certain that there are players who deal even more damage and have greater survivability with optimized gear for solo content. This raises the question of how many Vet overland levels we need and which one is right for you. I just don't like the idea of dividing the player base in an MMO into different layers. Maybe I'm wrong and such an option is needed, but that depends on the players' reaction to any changes.

BagOfBadgers · August 25

Before I say anything, I don't want overland to be made harder for for everyone as I know the majority of players are happy as it (maybe made even easier) and I would rather it stays at the difficulty level it is now, rather than force everyone to more diffcult overland, the same as it's now Saying that I would make massive use of a OPTIONAL Vet overland separate instance!

As someone who enjoys overland content but can Flail, Beam/2 HA attacks and kill most things/end of story boss that I encounter, why do I need to nerf myself to have enjoyment? Because it seems that by some of the posts of late, me being experienced and having high DPS/Survivability is not agreeable with others playstyles as, TBH, overland is trivial difficulty to me. But if I see others coming to WB/Delve Boss/Public Dungeon Boss I'll tag it and block so others can tag it also, so I'm not “that” player.

I have paid the same amount of funds and the right “to play as I want” ZOStm, and enjoy content as much as anyone else, don't I? I'm not shouting “Get Gud” is the only answer to overland difficulty. It seems reasonable that others have have access to a more challenging overland experience (Crags level off difficult would be a good starting point, and no I don't mean another crags zone, devs!) and by what has been posted some would rather us Vet players, naffed off any ways to the 4 new Dungeons/1 new Trial vet hm's a year that we get

.

So in summery:

I would like a Vet Difficulty overland.

I want it optional.

I don't want to force others into a level of difficulty that they don't want.

I just want to enjoy the game as anyone else without having to nerf toons to do it.

If ZOS can do all that I would be happy, if it all makes sense. I want to have fun, as much as anyone else in game, is the reasonable request I make.

PS I'm free to play whatever instance I chose as my disabilties vary day - day/hour-hour.

shadoza · August 25

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Before I say anything, I don't want overland to be made harder for for everyone as I know the majority of players are happy as it (maybe made even easier) and I would rather it stays at the difficulty level it is now, rather than force everyone to more diffcult overland, the same as it's now Saying that I would make massive use of a OPTIONAL Vet overland separate instance!

As someone who enjoys overland content but can Flail, Beam/2 HA attacks and kill most things/end of story boss that I encounter, why do I need to nerf myself to have enjoyment? Because it seems that by some of the posts of late, me being experienced and having high DPS/Survivability is not agreeable with others playstyles as, TBH, overland is trivial difficulty to me. But if I see others coming to WB/Delve Boss/Public Dungeon Boss I'll tag it and block so others can tag it also, so I'm not “that” player.

I have paid the same amount of funds and the right “to play as I want” ZOStm, and enjoy content as much as anyone else, don't I? I'm not shouting “Get Gud” is the only answer to overland difficulty. It seems reasonable that others have have access to a more challenging overland experience (Crags level off difficult would be a good starting point, and no I don't mean another crags zone, devs!) and by what has been posted some would rather us Vet players, naffed off any ways to the 4 new Dungeons/1 new Trial vet hm's a year that we get .

So in summery:

I would like a Vet Difficulty overland.

I want it optional.

I don't want to force others into a level of difficulty that they don't want.

I just want to enjoy the game as anyone else without having to nerf toons to do it.

If ZOS can do all that I would be happy, if it all makes sense. I want to have fun, as much as anyone else in game, is the reasonable request I make.

PS I'm free to play whatever instance I chose as my disabilties vary day - day/hour-hour.

I say no to that. There is no reason why a player should have twice the options as an average player. If one chooses to play in hard mode, then they should have to stay in that mode whether farming, questing, or dungeon running account wide. There should be a limited number of times one can change modes in case the hard mode is more difficult than they believed, they should be able to move back to normal mode. Players should not be able to switch back and forth or have some characters in one mode and other characters in another mode.