What Should Cyrodiil Look Like After Vengeance? (Poll + Open Discussion)

BXR_Lonestar · July 2

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

Honestly, I thought I would hate Vengeance because of its limited, stripped down nature, but after getting into some mega fights (involving probably 200+ people) on multiple occasions and experiencing zero connectivity issues, I finally see the trees through the forest.

If the tradeoff is going to be giving up fancy sets, champion perks, and upgraded abilities in exchange for a higher population, more grand-scale fights, and less toxicity and trolling, then I'm personally willing to make that tradeoff. I thought I would hate Vengeance because it was a radical departure to how I'm used to playing the game, but after failing over and over in somewhat small scale engagements, I learned that my group needed to work with others to accomplish anything, and we started to get into some insane battles that have truly been some of the most fun I've had in a year. All I can say is that Vengeance has truly been a breath of fresh air.

A slight adjustment in mindset and play style, but good players are still going to be good players, and bad players are going to be less of a hinderance than they were before (i.e., they're not bomb bait).

React · July 2

Performance wasn’t better and I hate the limited skills/builds.

LadyGP wrote: »

React wrote: »

What performance boost has there been, exactly? Here is what tonight looked like on PC/NA. Multiple second delays on abilities/damage numbers, abilities playing their whole animations without actually firing, rubberbanding, etc. Entire server was complaining of the same issues. This is worse than I've seen it in GH since the patch released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1T09FY4YRw

It's interesting while the majority seem to have amazing performance, some don't and it's just as bad as GH or worse.

In the video you are at fare - I was there too and had zero lag - obviously you did. Now the arrius fight later in the night... yeah that got rough but my experience was that it was nothing like GH lag. There also seemed to be the majority of the entire server at arrius so I kind of expect it.

Hopefully they are getting some data to figure out why the edge cases are still having performance issues.

All of zone chat was complaining of this. Multiple friends who I whispered were having the same issues. I ported to IC just after the clips in this video, and had zero issues in a fight with around 30 players present in temple district.

This is clearly server lag - likely the throttling that was mentioned by firor or wheeler in the post last year. It's the same lag we've had for years in prime time GH when ball groups are fighting or a faction gathers around the hammer.

Edit: and just to be clear because there seems to be some confusion, I was at fare DURING that arrius fight. I was about as far away from the conflict as I could possibly be and still having the same issues that were being complained about by those up at the actual conflict.

Nemesis7884 · July 2

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

I love vengeance - just offer both campaigns and see which one attracts more players in the long run...

the ONLY thing i think that needs fixing in vengeance is that we need the speed buffs back

Veinblood1965 · July 2

I didn't vote, my feelings about it where not present in the options. I played it for the first time last night and liked it even though I didn't think I would. After a time it became very obvious that it was a numbers game though, the faction with the most numbers just dominates period. Maybe some tweaks to give low pop some offensive advantage that increases the larger the population difference might help.

It was obvious who the hardcore pvpers were versus newbies though. I could hardly be killed except by a lot of people at once attacking me just due to line of site etc. I expect it to be boring soon though, but great for getting newbies interested in PVP as they don't feel like fish in a barrel.

Varana · July 2

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

LadyGP wrote: »

I disagree.

Right now skills don't have morphs, right? So they have to work on all of those still. They can very much so bring back all the usual sets, all the usual skills, CP, etc BUT in a reduced/reworked fashion. At the end of the day it's the "this skill does X, Y, and Z" that is causing the performance issues. They can rework sets/skills/CP so it's now this skill does X... and sometimes Y.
...
To your last point - no there has been ZERO balancing done to PvP aside from making all the skills pretty much 1:1 copies of each other.

Yeah, Vegeance is obviously not balanced at the moment. That was not what I meant, though.

If they continue to rework the skills and sets until they hit the sweet spot of build options and performance (and imho this will sacrifice a lot of build options, but let's see), we'll still end up with skills that are specific to this version of Cyrodiil. They won't then go and change the skills and sets in PvE to this version.
Which means that we will have one version of a skill in regular ESO, and one version in post-Vengeance Cyrodiil. I.e. separate balancing.

LadyGP · July 2

Love the performance boost (less lag, smooth fights) but hate the limited skills/builds (no customization, samey playstyles).

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Honestly, I thought I would hate Vengeance because of its limited, stripped down nature, but after getting into some mega fights (involving probably 200+ people) on multiple occasions and experiencing zero connectivity issues, I finally see the trees through the forest.

If the tradeoff is going to be giving up fancy sets, champion perks, and upgraded abilities in exchange for a higher population, more grand-scale fights, and less toxicity and trolling, then I'm personally willing to make that tradeoff. I thought I would hate Vengeance because it was a radical departure to how I'm used to playing the game, but after failing over and over in somewhat small scale engagements, I learned that my group needed to work with others to accomplish anything, and we started to get into some insane battles that have truly been some of the most fun I've had in a year. All I can say is that Vengeance has truly been a breath of fresh air.

A slight adjustment in mindset and play style, but good players are still going to be good players, and bad players are going to be less of a hinderance than they were before (i.e., they're not bomb bait).

Agreed.

My hope is that they find some middle ground somewhere in this whole thing.

React wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

React wrote: »

What performance boost has there been, exactly? Here is what tonight looked like on PC/NA. Multiple second delays on abilities/damage numbers, abilities playing their whole animations without actually firing, rubberbanding, etc. Entire server was complaining of the same issues. This is worse than I've seen it in GH since the patch released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1T09FY4YRw

It's interesting while the majority seem to have amazing performance, some don't and it's just as bad as GH or worse.

In the video you are at fare - I was there too and had zero lag - obviously you did. Now the arrius fight later in the night... yeah that got rough but my experience was that it was nothing like GH lag. There also seemed to be the majority of the entire server at arrius so I kind of expect it.

Hopefully they are getting some data to figure out why the edge cases are still having performance issues.

All of zone chat was complaining of this. Multiple friends who I whispered were having the same issues. I ported to IC just after the clips in this video, and had zero issues in a fight with around 30 players present in temple district.

This is clearly server lag - likely the throttling that was mentioned by firor or wheeler in the post last year. It's the same lag we've had for years in prime time GH when ball groups are fighting or a faction gathers around the hammer.

Edit: and just to be clear because there seems to be some confusion, I was at fare DURING that arrius fight. I was about as far away from the conflict as I could possibly be and still having the same issues that were being complained about by those up at the actual conflict.

Yup, I'm tracking now. I misunderstood at first the timing/location.

100% agree there was a ton of lag during that time frame. I was at the arrius fight and yes zone chat was talking about it too. I thought you were at fare by yourself or something... didn't realize this was during the Arrius fight. 100% what we felt was server lag.

code65536 · July 2

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

LadyGP wrote: »

React wrote: »

What performance boost has there been, exactly? Here is what tonight looked like on PC/NA. Multiple second delays on abilities/damage numbers, abilities playing their whole animations without actually firing, rubberbanding, etc. Entire server was complaining of the same issues. This is worse than I've seen it in GH since the patch released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1T09FY4YRw

It's interesting while the majority seem to have amazing performance, some don't and it's just as bad as GH or worse.

In the video you are at fare - I was there too and had zero lag - obviously you did. Now the arrius fight later in the night... yeah that got rough but my experience was that it was nothing like GH lag. There also seemed to be the majority of the entire server at arrius so I kind of expect it.

Hopefully they are getting some data to figure out why the edge cases are still having performance issues.

It seems like there have been more waves of DDoS attacks against the servers, and I suspect that's what's going on.

The reason I'm suspecting this is because on multiple days now, when I was doing event stuff on EU during NA primetime (i.e., when EU is dead and quiet), I've had ping spikes and disconnects. Outside of busy hours, outside of Cyrodiil.

LadyGP · July 2

Love the performance boost (less lag, smooth fights) but hate the limited skills/builds (no customization, samey playstyles).

code65536 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

React wrote: »

What performance boost has there been, exactly? Here is what tonight looked like on PC/NA. Multiple second delays on abilities/damage numbers, abilities playing their whole animations without actually firing, rubberbanding, etc. Entire server was complaining of the same issues. This is worse than I've seen it in GH since the patch released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1T09FY4YRw

It's interesting while the majority seem to have amazing performance, some don't and it's just as bad as GH or worse.

In the video you are at fare - I was there too and had zero lag - obviously you did. Now the arrius fight later in the night... yeah that got rough but my experience was that it was nothing like GH lag. There also seemed to be the majority of the entire server at arrius so I kind of expect it.

Hopefully they are getting some data to figure out why the edge cases are still having performance issues.

It seems like there have been more waves of DDoS attacks against the servers, and I suspect that's what's going on.

The reason I'm suspecting this is because on multiple days now, when I was doing event stuff on EU during NA primetime (i.e., when EU is dead and quiet), I've had ping spikes and disconnects. Outside of busy hours, outside of Cyrodiil.

Hard teo tell. I agree sounds like there were some attacks, then you got the event, then you got the long maintenace, and you got the cyro tests. So many variables only the network engineers truly know what the cause is.

LadyGP · July 3

Love the performance boost (less lag, smooth fights) but hate the limited skills/builds (no customization, samey playstyles).

Had a lot of good fights last night and performance was really solid for the amount of players in the area.

That being said... it's getting boring pretty quick for me and I say that as someone who has been playing since beta mainly in PvP.

LPapirius · July 3

Performance wasn’t better and I hate the limited skills/builds.

How can performance be this bad when everything PvP is this stripped down?

tsaescishoeshiner · July 3

Some of the changes aren't a major detriment to gameplay and build choice. I don't know if these changes are greatly impacting performance, but if they were, I wouldn't mind if they stayed the same:

Simplified siege
Simplified potions, no food and mundus
No use of inventory items or mail (although the rank-boosting items would need to be addressed)
Heals using a targeting system (that default blue outline on allies in front of you) instead of "smart targeting" low-health allies in a wider area

Part of what I like about Vengeance is the gameplay (tankier, more strategic, less convoluted to build), but we can't have it feel the same while also allowing all the sets that let us make creative, personal builds. So I don't see a way that Vengeance can improve that, unless skills and sets are simplified. I want better, bigger combat, but I also want to optimize a build, you know?

For example, the burst heals in Vengeance generally just heal you, maybe with one extra effect, maybe not. If all these extra effects are indeed making skills more taxing on the server, is there a way to streamline skills without making them too samey?

ForumBully · July 3

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

LadyGP wrote: »

Had a lot of good fights last night and performance was really solid for the amount of players in the area.

That being said... it's getting boring pretty quick for me and I say that as someone who has been playing since beta mainly in PvP.

Yeah, I think they should have gone a little further than just a few skill lines. But I guess the point isn't to try getting it performant and engaging all at once. Love the direction, but I wonder how many tests we'll need. Surely ZoS has a timeline in mind.

LadyGP · July 3

Love the performance boost (less lag, smooth fights) but hate the limited skills/builds (no customization, samey playstyles).

LPapirius wrote: »

How can performance be this bad when everything PvP is this stripped down?

I'm curious if those of you who are having performance issues on this have a local ISP issue (like my case with my undergound fiber being cracked and causing my network to "blip" for miliseconds randomly) or if you updated to the most recent windows update and need to make some changes to the settings file in eso for the CPU performance issues that are now happening (link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7550002#Comment_7550002) @React this is what I was trying to tell you in game the other night.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Some of the changes aren't a major detriment to gameplay and build choice. I don't know if these changes are greatly impacting performance, but if they were, I wouldn't mind if they stayed the same:
Simplified siege

Simplified potions, no food and mundus

No use of inventory items or mail (although the rank-boosting items would need to be addressed)

Heals using a targeting system (that default blue outline on allies in front of you) instead of "smart targeting" low-health allies in a wider area

Part of what I like about Vengeance is the gameplay (tankier, more strategic, less convoluted to build), but we can't have it feel the same while also allowing all the sets that let us make creative, personal builds. So I don't see a way that Vengeance can improve that, unless skills and sets are simplified. I want better, bigger combat, but I also want to optimize a build, you know?

For example, the burst heals in Vengeance generally just heal you, maybe with one extra effect, maybe not. If all these extra effects are indeed making skills more taxing on the server, is there a way to streamline skills without making them too samey?

- Is attaching the mail & inventory services to Cyrodiil really causing lag? Thats a data point I'd like to have more info about. Not being able to touch my mail or my inv really when in Cyro has become really.... really...annoying.
- With the smart targeting you're suggesting... I don't see how we would be able to quickly switch who we want to target. The combats too quick and it would be a clunky system to get off the ground. I don't think they need to change "who" receives healing but more so how many stacks of healing they can get
- AOE dmg caps need to go away - like ASAP. This is hands down the most annoying feature in vengance at the moment. There is nothing more annoying than trying to stealth, go into a big group and have all your dmg lined up drop an ulti and only see three peoples health blink (when 20+ are under my ulti). I'm not a bomber - nor was I trying to bomb them - but trying to bring them down so the DC around me could finish them off.

That experience last night was terrible from a dps standpoint. If I see 20 people in front of me and I do wall of elements I want to see people take some freaking damage. Otherwise - I feel like I'm contributing jack crap while playing.

Performance was great but that experience last night happened to me so many times I just logged off. You can't do anything without 10 people around you... or you get in a 1v1 and take 5 minutes to bring someone down. This isn't fun. /IneedANap

LadyGP · July 3

Love the performance boost (less lag, smooth fights) but hate the limited skills/builds (no customization, samey playstyles).

ForumBully wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Had a lot of good fights last night and performance was really solid for the amount of players in the area.

That being said... it's getting boring pretty quick for me and I say that as someone who has been playing since beta mainly in PvP.

Yeah, I think they should have gone a little further than just a few skill lines. But I guess the point isn't to try getting it performant and engaging all at once. Love the direction, but I wonder how many tests we'll need. Surely ZoS has a timeline in mind.

This is their intent as far as I understand. It is sounding like they are going to...work some skills...do a test...work more skills...do a test...work some more skills...do a test with the point being to see where X number of skills possible before cyro starts to tank performance wise.

ForumBully · July 3

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

LadyGP wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Had a lot of good fights last night and performance was really solid for the amount of players in the area.

That being said... it's getting boring pretty quick for me and I say that as someone who has been playing since beta mainly in PvP.

Yeah, I think they should have gone a little further than just a few skill lines. But I guess the point isn't to try getting it performant and engaging all at once. Love the direction, but I wonder how many tests we'll need. Surely ZoS has a timeline in mind.

This is their intent as far as I understand. It is sounding like they are going to...work some skills...do a test...work more skills...do a test...work some more skills...do a test with the point being to see where X number of skills possible before cyro starts to tank performance wise.

I just hope this isn't the cadence or we'll be testing for years. How many months between the first and second iterations? Console wasn't part of the first.

LadyGP · July 3

Love the performance boost (less lag, smooth fights) but hate the limited skills/builds (no customization, samey playstyles).

ForumBully wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Had a lot of good fights last night and performance was really solid for the amount of players in the area.

That being said... it's getting boring pretty quick for me and I say that as someone who has been playing since beta mainly in PvP.

Yeah, I think they should have gone a little further than just a few skill lines. But I guess the point isn't to try getting it performant and engaging all at once. Love the direction, but I wonder how many tests we'll need. Surely ZoS has a timeline in mind.

This is their intent as far as I understand. It is sounding like they are going to...work some skills...do a test...work more skills...do a test...work some more skills...do a test with the point being to see where X number of skills possible before cyro starts to tank performance wise.

I just hope this isn't the cadence or we'll be testing for years. How many months between the first and second iterations? Console wasn't part of the first.

Just 3 months. I think that is pretty impressive... They had to evaluate all the data they got, have internal meetings, decide if they are going to push forward, then have a dev team work on the next skills. Then test those skills... wrap it all up and then fit it into a maintenance window and push to production. Three months might seem like a long time but I can promise you in the dev world that feels like... 2 weeks?

Pretty impressive IMO. I do expect this to be the schedule for the rest of 2025 to be honest.

ForumBully · July 3

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

LadyGP wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Had a lot of good fights last night and performance was really solid for the amount of players in the area.

That being said... it's getting boring pretty quick for me and I say that as someone who has been playing since beta mainly in PvP.

Yeah, I think they should have gone a little further than just a few skill lines. But I guess the point isn't to try getting it performant and engaging all at once. Love the direction, but I wonder how many tests we'll need. Surely ZoS has a timeline in mind.

This is their intent as far as I understand. It is sounding like they are going to...work some skills...do a test...work more skills...do a test...work some more skills...do a test with the point being to see where X number of skills possible before cyro starts to tank performance wise.

I just hope this isn't the cadence or we'll be testing for years. How many months between the first and second iterations? Console wasn't part of the first.

Just 3 months. I think that is pretty impressive... They had to evaluate all the data they got, have internal meetings, decide if they are going to push forward, then have a dev team work on the next skills. Then test those skills... wrap it all up and then fit it into a maintenance window and push to production. Three months might seem like a long time but I can promise you in the dev world that feels like... 2 weeks?

Pretty impressive IMO. I do expect this to be the schedule for the rest of 2025 to be honest.

Great. So with just a few additions each iteration, every 3 months, the final rework should be ready sometime in 2028.

Cooperharley · July 3

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

Had a blast in vengeance, as did many of my friends.

I'm a PvE main. I already spend enough time doing PvE and grinding out gear, spending transmutes, experimenting with new builds, etc. I don't want to do all of that for PvP; for a game mode I don't find that fun in general in this game due to unkillable tanky characters running around towers and rocks, getting ganked all the time, etc etc. Being able to hop in and it be about skill in a 1v1 rather than some annoying meme build or tank build or w/e was much more fun.

Also, the performance was great and seeing SO many people again like back in the old days was sick

katanagirl1 · July 4

Performance on PS NA was worse than Gray Host and had a total of one bar across all factions. So no poll options fit for this. My performance in GH is usually good but was hoping for better, still several second skill delays for melee combat. There were big battles and lots of siege, no problems there, the frame rate was better than in Riften just doing crafting dailies.

The lack of unkillable tanks, ball groups, and RoA pulls was enjoyable.

I am not totally unhappy with the skills since everything my sorc needs is there but I miss my CP, meatbags, and lancers.

The only improvement I see is that keeps don’t stay flagged for several minutes after the fighting and repairs are done.

Where should we go from here? Gear templates I guess. Simple stuff like Hundings and Julianos.

The skill lag needs to be figured out, though. Starting the fight it’s like time slows down and nothing works.

Tommy_The_Gun · July 4

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

I am a bit torn on this. On one hand I would like more options... but I do have an impression that this vengeance is less fun to play than previous one since a little tiny bit of "cheese" is now kinda possible to do with some weapon skills since we have more AOEs & healing we can stack.

Edit: also, I think that this kinda proves that AOEs & stacking them is responsible for terrible performance. There were a couple of big fight where all 3 factions stacked at one keep and there was a metric ton of lag... which did not happened during 1st vengeance tests since we only had pretty much single target skills and limited healing skills.

ArchMikem · July 4

Love the performance boost (less lag, smooth fights) but hate the limited skills/builds (no customization, samey playstyles).

Im on Console and just tried Vengeance last night. I anticipated itd be fun. It was miserable.

My Main has always been a Stamina Nightblade built to be a PvE Crit Kitty glass cannon that also somewhat worked in PvP. I got my first General Star on her. Last night I found my build to have been butchered. No Channeled Acceleration, ALL of my Critical Dmg wiped to zero. I had to fill in skill slots with random abilities and my character hit like a wet noodle.

I do not like this.

ForumBully · July 4

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

ArchMikem wrote: »

Im on Console and just tried Vengeance last night. I anticipated itd be fun. It was miserable.

My Main has always been a Stamina Nightblade built to be a PvE Crit Kitty glass cannon that also somewhat worked in PvP. I got my first General Star on her. Last night I found my build to have been butchered. No Channeled Acceleration, ALL of my Critical Dmg wiped to zero. I had to fill in skill slots with random abilities and my character hit like a wet noodle.

I do not like this.

Just curious, what exactly did you expect this campaign was? Unchanged but somehow better performing?

CatoUnchained · July 4

Performance wasn’t better and I hate the limited skills/builds.

The problem is performance during this version of vengeance performance isn't any better and often worse than live was/is. I didn't like the first vengeance "test", but this second round of vengeance is a complete fail. Just adding weapons and alliance skills was enough to bottom out the performance. So may as well stick with the PvP system we already have.

You know ZOS has never even tried limiting heal and shield stacking. Nor have they tried making adjustments to their most calculation heavy sets. They haven't even tried to fix the current live PvP mode and instead went on this failed vengeance tangent.

ForumBully · July 4

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

CatoUnchained wrote: »

The problem is performance during this version of vengeance performance isn't any better and often worse than live was/is. I didn't like the first vengeance "test", but this second round of vengeance is a complete fail. Just adding weapons and alliance skills was enough to bottom out the performance. So may as well stick with the PvP system we already have.

You know ZOS has never even tried limiting heal and shield stacking. Nor have they tried making adjustments to their most calculation heavy sets. They haven't even tried to fix the current live PvP mode and instead went on this failed vengeance tangent.

There was already a statement about performance issues being unrelated to Vengeance, unfortunately it wasn't very detailed and it doesn't seem like they're going to elaborate on that.

Artim_X · July 4

Love the performance boost (less lag, smooth fights) but hate the limited skills/builds (no customization, samey playstyles).

Without variety, Cyrodiil is just a strategic army vs. army game where having more peeps wins the day. Vengeance 6 the most boring inclusion to ever be made in this game, but I wouldn't mi d it existing as a separate option for peeps allergic to build craft.

ArchMikem · July 4

Love the performance boost (less lag, smooth fights) but hate the limited skills/builds (no customization, samey playstyles).

ForumBully wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Im on Console and just tried Vengeance last night. I anticipated itd be fun. It was miserable.

My Main has always been a Stamina Nightblade built to be a PvE Crit Kitty glass cannon that also somewhat worked in PvP. I got my first General Star on her. Last night I found my build to have been butchered. No Channeled Acceleration, ALL of my Critical Dmg wiped to zero. I had to fill in skill slots with random abilities and my character hit like a wet noodle.

I do not like this.

Just curious, what exactly did you expect this campaign was? Unchanged but somehow better performing?

I didn't expect the changes to abilities and stat boosts to be so drastic.

ForumBully · July 4

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

ArchMikem wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Im on Console and just tried Vengeance last night. I anticipated itd be fun. It was miserable.

My Main has always been a Stamina Nightblade built to be a PvE Crit Kitty glass cannon that also somewhat worked in PvP. I got my first General Star on her. Last night I found my build to have been butchered. No Channeled Acceleration, ALL of my Critical Dmg wiped to zero. I had to fill in skill slots with random abilities and my character hit like a wet noodle.

I do not like this.

Just curious, what exactly did you expect this campaign was? Unchanged but somehow better performing?

I didn't expect the changes to abilities and stat boosts to be so drastic.

As much as I appreciate the effort to revamp PvP, they really aren't doing a great job with communication. There's really no reason anyone should have to go to a third party to get a list of changes and players don't seem to have any idea what's happening in the test, let alone what the roadmap looks like for the next few ...however many there may be, we don't know that either.
This is an area where ZOS falls down again and again. Just communicate.

Muizer · July 4

I do not want a system system where damage and healing increase exponentially if players ball up, which then needs to be countered by giving individual players ball-destroying tools. Vengeance should be used as an opportunity to get rid of this approach to balancing altogether. What concerns me is that existing PvP has created a following that will want this awful dynamic back. Perhaps even the devs still have that as their ultimate goal. That the low-energy combat that allows fights to break up into 1v1, 1v2 and 1v3 was just a byproduct of the simplified abilities and reduced calculations when it should be a goal in itself.

Markytous · July 4

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

Vengeance has been an absolute joy this week, having been able to experience the same performant and responsive gameplay as the first test phase while adding much needed stamina skills. As far as I can see, this has been a great success with the addition of many skill choices while losing no performance from the previous phase.

I understand that there are many claiming that they have lagged more than Grey Host in Vengeance Cyrodiil. This is proven to be isolated to their systems only, as the data regarding latency and ping / server performance has clearly evidenced that the server is tolerating fights with 300+ participants. This widely beats the live Grey Host server viability of, what, 20-30 individual players in area before server latency starts to kick up. I hope both the readers and ZOS are aware of the campaign against Vengeance entirely. Solution? If it's not expensive on server load, just keep GH up in its current state (it only supports maybe 300 player total anyways compared to the 900 player cap of Vengeance) so the anti-Vengeance crowd don't have grounds to stand against the fruitful pursuit of performant PVP in Cyrodiil.

Vengeance is already seeing many new blood joining the fray! Many players are voicing their enjoyment of the straightforward PVP where they don't immediately just die without clear explanation of what happened to them. Meanwhile veterans such as myself are enjoying solo-sieging sides of the map looking for 1vX experiences where I am not wearing overtuned gear sets or abusing overtuned skills to succeed (Utilizing DK during Vengeance to test my personal skill level).

My vision of ESO PVP post-Vengeance? Vengeance has its own campaign, replacing the sub50 Cyrodiil. Grey Host still available as always to keep ball-groups, subclass and proc set abusers quiet. Vengeance continues to enjoy updates of perhaps unique set or buffs that put your character in a specific niche for role purposes as well as more skill lines to play with as long as the added content does not tax server latency (considerations to an even playing field remaining intact, as Vengeance's "skill-based" nature is a big draw for many such as myself).

albertberku · July 4

Love both the performance and the simplified skills/builds (like the even field).

The gameplay has changed for better for sure, it is being more like GW2 (Streak cooldown as example), which is massive plus. I have 3k+ hours in Cyrodiil and i never enjoyed actual ESO combat gameplay, it was too chaotic, too fast and too cheesy, as a result you often cant get the response from the server that you need in 0.1 sec. Slower character speed, clear class differentiation (so that you cant combine a 90k unblockable combo by subclassing every gank skill line and wearing every proc set) and skill cooldowns, it is clearly the right direction, Vengeance. Proc sets should never belong to Cyrodiil.

On top of that make the light attack a standalone ability, and dont allow animation canceling and you will have actually a solid combat gameplay. That is the reason why vengeance is attracting so many new pvp players, because combat is a bit more clear and chilled now, which doesnt mean it is less skillful. It is just more tactical. It shouldnt be a race for who has the best internet connection / how you can fire 10 different dmg sources at the same time and animation cancel everything or who is turning around or jumping faster, it should be about being mindful of your skills/cooldowns/ressources, positioning and how you can coordinate with your friends. After all, this is a MMORPG not a Street Fighter game.