Well, it finally happened. I won't be renewing my ESO+ subscription.
-
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ESO_player123 wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »ESO_player123 wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »They're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
No, they don't affect YOUR gameplay. Some people play MMORPG's to collect tons of armor and mounts, to create a style and look for their main and alts characters. When these "cosmetics" cost, I dunna....$500.00 to obtain in a game we already paid for, in a chapter we already paid for with a subscription we already paid for...well then ya, customers like the OP have a right to complain because it absolutely affects how they play the game.
There are quite a few mounts that don't require money other than buying chapters. Some of them are pretty nice looking.
Irrelevant and does not address my post.
I mentioned that you don't need to spend money to get attractive mounts. I don't see how that's irrelevant to you complaining about spending money on attractive mounts.
Becuase I did not argue about spending money on attractive mounts. You statedThey're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
And I corrected you on the fact that not everyone plays the same way you do. Some people play for cosmetics, which does affect their gameplay.
Suggesting that players can get a handful of mounts in game does not negate what you said, inferring that everyone plays like you do.
You can't play for cosmetics with the crown store. That's not gameplay. Gameplay is scrying, doing events to earn tickets to get mounts, doing quests to unlock mounts (I think Necrom had one?), and doing trial trifectas to earn mounts. Swiping a credit card is not gameplay, so crown crate cosmetics do not involve gameplay in any way.
No, anything that involves the game is gameplay. Anything once you are past the log in screen is "playing the game".
It's not. The developers in this game don't even consider that way. Shop items are not gameplay because they do not involve play.
That is not a matter for them to develop on. Its a fundamental fact that if you are inside a game, past the log in screen playing it, you are playing it. It's all part of the gameplay.
Crown crates only take place in game, not outside of the game. Opening a crown crate is in fact gameplay, no one has the authority to cherry pick a definition of what gameplay is.
Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.
No. That isn't a fundamental fact. Gameplay is defined as the tactical aspects of a game, such as its plot or the way it's played. Gameplay isn't the same thing as in-game purchases (which is legally distinct), graphics, sound design, etc. There are separate elements that create a video game.
Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.
Tales of Tribute has tactics. There's no tactics to opening crown crates. Pacrooti is just graphic and sound design added to a real money transaction to make that transaction more interesting. It is fun but it is not gameplay.
You are still playing the game, inside the game. The definition of "gamplay" is highly contentious and debated amongst game developers. There is no one rule. I argue that playing a part of the game, inside the game is part of that games "gameplay". It's not random, had to be desiged, art assets created, coded, implemented and updated to live servers to happen. It's not happenstance, its deliberate and by design. Part of the game, part of playing the game, part of the games gameplay.
You can call it however you like, but the only reason Pacrooti is in game is to make the players part with their money on regular basis and to promote addictive behavior. ToT and other aspects of "gameplay" do not come even close to that.
You and the peole who upvoted you are missing the point. Pacrooti is gameplay just like TOT is gameplay. Actions that a player makes in game while playing the game.
It does not matter if they are different, they are both still part of ESO's gameplay.
We have to agree to disagree. I will never consider any in-game cash shop a gameplay.
It's not up for debate to disagree with. Obtaining crown crates can only happen in game and through a mechanic with sound, animation, graphics and coded with specific intent, non of it accidental. Its part of the game, part of the ESO experience, part of the gameplay.Pixiepumpkin wrote: »
You and the peole who upvoted you are missing the point. Pacrooti is gameplay just like TOT is gameplay. Actions that a player makes in game while playing the game.
It does not matter if they are different, they are both still part of ESO's gameplay.
Setting aside where any of us stand on crown crates (personally I'm indifferent and don't feel the need to purchase any), I can't believe there's 2 pages of debate on whether or not opening crates is "playing a game".
How is this:
Any different than this:
Game of Chance is Game of Chance lol
Exactly."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes5 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »
You and the peole who upvoted you are missing the point. Pacrooti is gameplay just like TOT is gameplay. Actions that a player makes in game while playing the game.
It does not matter if they are different, they are both still part of ESO's gameplay.
Setting aside where any of us stand on crown crates (personally I'm indifferent and don't feel the need to purchase any), I can't believe there's 2 pages of debate on whether or not opening crates is "playing a game".
How is this:
Any different than this:
Game of Chance is Game of Chance lol
Neither of those is a game LOL. They're both just choosing to burn some money to no purpose.11 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »
You and the peole who upvoted you are missing the point. Pacrooti is gameplay just like TOT is gameplay. Actions that a player makes in game while playing the game.
It does not matter if they are different, they are both still part of ESO's gameplay.
Setting aside where any of us stand on crown crates (personally I'm indifferent and don't feel the need to purchase any), I can't believe there's 2 pages of debate on whether or not opening crates is "playing a game".
How is this:
Any different than this:
Game of Chance is Game of Chance lol
Neither of those is a game LOL. They're both just choosing to burn some money to no purpose.
Incorrect. They are both games, in fact the name of the bottom picture is "Gaming Casino". It might not be a video game, but its a game none the less.
The top picture takes place in Elder Scrolls Online. The crates are puchased in game only, one must be in the game, on a character to access them to purchase them. The mechanic comes with sound, graphics, animation, and a gamble structure using a Random Number Generator (RNG) to determine the wins. The player must choose to open the crates as part of the gameplay. This is all designed purpously and with intent. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay.
The amount of mental gymnastics in this thread by folks suggesting that crown crates are not part of game play inside Elder Scrolls Online is absoutely mindnumbing."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes7 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »It feels like the people who create those items we can earn fragments for during events to complete a series of items that morph were like, you know what? This can't fail. We have whales that could tow a floating island, they always take the carrot.
I think they thought that people would be excited because they like it during events. The difference is we have time to get that stuff during the event. Nobody had to stop actually using the stuff they earn for over a year to get stuff with event tickets.3 -
Frayton✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »
You and the peole who upvoted you are missing the point. Pacrooti is gameplay just like TOT is gameplay. Actions that a player makes in game while playing the game.
It does not matter if they are different, they are both still part of ESO's gameplay.
Setting aside where any of us stand on crown crates (personally I'm indifferent and don't feel the need to purchase any), I can't believe there's 2 pages of debate on whether or not opening crates is "playing a game".
How is this:
Any different than this:
Game of Chance is Game of Chance lol
Exactly what I was thinking. Opening crown crates is just a virtual gambling slot machine game. I can't believe there are people arguing that it's not gameplay.
Anyway, saying those items are free when you have to actually buy something to get them is sketchy.Edited by Frayton on June 20, 2025 8:23AM10 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »ESO_player123 wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »ESO_player123 wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »They're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
No, they don't affect YOUR gameplay. Some people play MMORPG's to collect tons of armor and mounts, to create a style and look for their main and alts characters. When these "cosmetics" cost, I dunna....$500.00 to obtain in a game we already paid for, in a chapter we already paid for with a subscription we already paid for...well then ya, customers like the OP have a right to complain because it absolutely affects how they play the game.
There are quite a few mounts that don't require money other than buying chapters. Some of them are pretty nice looking.
Irrelevant and does not address my post.
I mentioned that you don't need to spend money to get attractive mounts. I don't see how that's irrelevant to you complaining about spending money on attractive mounts.
Becuase I did not argue about spending money on attractive mounts. You statedThey're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
And I corrected you on the fact that not everyone plays the same way you do. Some people play for cosmetics, which does affect their gameplay.
Suggesting that players can get a handful of mounts in game does not negate what you said, inferring that everyone plays like you do.
You can't play for cosmetics with the crown store. That's not gameplay. Gameplay is scrying, doing events to earn tickets to get mounts, doing quests to unlock mounts (I think Necrom had one?), and doing trial trifectas to earn mounts. Swiping a credit card is not gameplay, so crown crate cosmetics do not involve gameplay in any way.
No, anything that involves the game is gameplay. Anything once you are past the log in screen is "playing the game".
It's not. The developers in this game don't even consider that way. Shop items are not gameplay because they do not involve play.
That is not a matter for them to develop on. Its a fundamental fact that if you are inside a game, past the log in screen playing it, you are playing it. It's all part of the gameplay.
Crown crates only take place in game, not outside of the game. Opening a crown crate is in fact gameplay, no one has the authority to cherry pick a definition of what gameplay is.
Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.
No. That isn't a fundamental fact. Gameplay is defined as the tactical aspects of a game, such as its plot or the way it's played. Gameplay isn't the same thing as in-game purchases (which is legally distinct), graphics, sound design, etc. There are separate elements that create a video game.
Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.
Tales of Tribute has tactics. There's no tactics to opening crown crates. Pacrooti is just graphic and sound design added to a real money transaction to make that transaction more interesting. It is fun but it is not gameplay.
You are still playing the game, inside the game. The definition of "gamplay" is highly contentious and debated amongst game developers. There is no one rule. I argue that playing a part of the game, inside the game is part of that games "gameplay". It's not random, had to be desiged, art assets created, coded, implemented and updated to live servers to happen. It's not happenstance, its deliberate and by design. Part of the game, part of playing the game, part of the games gameplay.
You can call it however you like, but the only reason Pacrooti is in game is to make the players part with their money on regular basis and to promote addictive behavior. ToT and other aspects of "gameplay" do not come even close to that.
You and the peole who upvoted you are missing the point. Pacrooti is gameplay just like TOT is gameplay. Actions that a player makes in game while playing the game.
It does not matter if they are different, they are both still part of ESO's gameplay.
We have to agree to disagree. I will never consider any in-game cash shop a gameplay.
It's not up for debate to disagree with. Obtaining crown crates can only happen in game and through a mechanic with sound, animation, graphics and coded with specific intent, non of it accidental. Its part of the game, part of the ESO experience, part of the gameplay.
Then, when next time people ask for cool mounts and other shines be available through actually playing the game/through actual gameplay you can direct them to the crown store and say that they are already available. And if they do not want to engage in this aspect of "gameplay", then tough luck for them.4 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Except the individual price of 2 out of 3 radiant apex mounts was raised by 50%.
But sure, no different than any other crate season. /s
Huh? The gem prices are still 1200 / 1600 / 2500, and the seal prices are still a flat 16K for all three.
Unless you want to count the two recolorings of the most expensive radiant (I mean, that's what they are, isn't it? they're all identical except for the color palette) as separate, in which case it would be "2 out of 5", not "2 out of 3".
And for you to call it 50% more expensive means that you're ignoring that you're getting a polymorph out of it too. Well, ok, if you had zero interest in the polymorph and you're grudgingly getting it just to unlock that particular recoloring, then yea. But... I suspect that someone who cares enough to want this in the first place is probably going to want that matching polymorph too.Edited by code65536 on June 20, 2025 8:47PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Okay, everyone, let's back up a little bit to last year, back to the Diamond Anniversary crates. The most expensive radiant apex (Shackled Titan) and the apex polymorph (Molag Bal), when used together, unlocked a special animation. Or something like that (I personally avoid anything related to crates, so I could be remembering the exact details wrong).
Now, imagine if ZOS had done something a little different this year. If you use the Dragonclash mount while using the Alduin polymorph, then the mount will take on a special coloring to match the polymorph. This would be exactly like the Tital/Bal thing, where when you used these two items together, they unlock a special thing, which is the mount changing its color to match the rider.
I don't recall there being multiple forum threads with people raising pitchforks at there being a special interaction between the Titan mount and Molag Bal polymorph, so I suspect that nobody would've cared if the Dragonclash mount had a special feature where it would change color to match the polymorph, if the player was wearing one.
But now, imagine someone at ZOS went, "But what if the player wants the recoloring without using the polymorph? Oh, I know, we can unlock the recolored variant if the player owns the polymorph rather than uses the polymorph! Then they have more flexibility and choice!" I mean, this would be better for the players, right? And yet, here we are, in a thread with people waving pitchforks. ZOS should've just done what they did last year and made the recoloring a special interaction if the polymorph is equipped. It would be more restrictive, but way better for their PR.
(Again, I avoid anything crate related. Never liked the concept. But I think it's a hilarious that people are in an uproar about this.)Edited by code65536 on June 20, 2025 8:09PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information10 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »They're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
No, they don't affect YOUR gameplay. Some people play MMORPG's to collect tons of armor and mounts, to create a style and look for their main and alts characters. When these "cosmetics" cost, I dunna....$500.00 to obtain in a game we already paid for, in a chapter we already paid for with a subscription we already paid for...well then ya, customers like the OP have a right to complain because it absolutely affects how they play the game.
There are quite a few mounts that don't require money other than buying chapters. Some of them are pretty nice looking.
Irrelevant and does not address my post.
I mentioned that you don't need to spend money to get attractive mounts. I don't see how that's irrelevant to you complaining about spending money on attractive mounts.
Becuase I did not argue about spending money on attractive mounts. You statedThey're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
And I corrected you on the fact that not everyone plays the same way you do. Some people play for cosmetics, which does affect their gameplay.
Suggesting that players can get a handful of mounts in game does not negate what you said, inferring that everyone plays like you do.
You can't play for cosmetics with the crown store. That's not gameplay. Gameplay is scrying, doing events to earn tickets to get mounts, doing quests to unlock mounts (I think Necrom had one?), and doing trial trifectas to earn mounts. Swiping a credit card is not gameplay, so crown crate cosmetics do not involve gameplay in any way.
No, anything that involves the game is gameplay. Anything once you are past the log in screen is "playing the game".
It's not. The developers in this game don't even consider that way. Shop items are not gameplay because they do not involve play.
That is not a matter for them to develop on. Its a fundamental fact that if you are inside a game, past the log in screen playing it, you are playing it. It's all part of the gameplay.
Crown crates only take place in game, not outside of the game. Opening a crown crate is in fact gameplay, no one has the authority to cherry pick a definition of what gameplay is.
Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.
No. That isn't a fundamental fact. Gameplay is defined as the tactical aspects of a game, such as its plot or the way it's played. Gameplay isn't the same thing as in-game purchases (which is legally distinct), graphics, sound design, etc. There are separate elements that create a video game.
Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.
I gotta disagree with this one. Sitting down with pacrooti to open the mystery box is very different to Tales of Tribute. Even if someone doesn't like it there is actual strategy, tactics and counter strategies to consider while you play it. Crown crates are pure rng and basically a dressed up store menu.
But you are still playing the game, inside the game. The definition of "gamplay" is highly contentious and debated amongst game developers. There is no one rule. I argue that playing a part of the game, inside the game is part of that games "gameplay". It's not random, had to be desiged, art assets created, coded, implemented and updated to live servers to happen. It's not happenstance, its deliberate and by design. Part of the game, part of playing the game, part of the games gameplay.
Hiya! Game developer here. Microtransactions is not gameplay.
Paid-cosmetics may be something you can enjoy in-game, but it's the same way you enjoy popcorn in the movie theatre: yes, you paid for the popcorn to enhance your movie-going experience, but the important bit is that it's not part of the movie.Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
20 Argonians
6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 1x Unchained20 -
fizzylu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, I just made the mistake of renewing my sub and buying some crowns. I haven't even been actively playing the game since the BG rework, gave it a small chance with the most recent content update, but almost immediately realized that I still simply don't enjoy being in-game anymore. Yet I still renewed my sub.... and still bought crowns. It's like a toxic relationship, truly. So now I'm really at the point where despite me still wanting to give ESO (and Zenimax) a chance to be the game I once loved, I think I just need to uninstall now.
Side note:
Also love how people are arguing about what makes something gameplay because someone said some people "play for cosmetics". Clearly they meant that some people like dressing up and styling characters, running around looking cool, etc. and that those things are part of the gameplay experience for them. Really don't understand how some people did not understand that, probably in their reaching so far attempts to defend Zenimax. And let's be real, there are MMOs out there with companies that understand that MMORPG players like that kind of stuff and can be one reason they play these games.... yet still don't try to get money out of them at every opportunity just because of it.Edited by fizzylu on June 20, 2025 8:35PM10 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But now, imagine someone at ZOS went, "But what if the player wants the recoloring without using the polymorph? Oh, I know, we can unlock the recolored variant if the player owns the polymorph rather than uses the polymorph! Then they have more flexibility and choice!" I mean, this would be better for the players, right?
No. It wouldn't. Because now they can't just buy the thing they want and have to spend a lot of money on something they don't want to get something they do. If you just wanted the Molag Bal polymorph, you could just buy the polymorph.
I don't think it's hard to understand why being forced to buy both goes over worse than getting a small, free bonus if you choose to buy both.
And I don't mean forced as in someone has to spend money on anything in a video game. I mean forced as in the purchase is locked behind another purchase.Edited by spartaxoxo on June 20, 2025 9:13PM5 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »But now, imagine someone at ZOS went, "But what if the player wants the recoloring without using the polymorph? Oh, I know, we can unlock the recolored variant if the player owns the polymorph rather than uses the polymorph! Then they have more flexibility and choice!" I mean, this would be better for the players, right?
No. It wouldn't. Because now they can't just buy the thing they want and have to spend a lot of money on something they don't want to get something they do. If you just wanted the Molag Bal polymorph, you could just buy the polymorph.
I don't think it's hard to understand why being forced to buy both goes over worse than getting a small, free bonus if you choose to buy both.
And I don't mean forced as in someone has to spend money on anything in a video game. I mean forced as in the purchase is locked behind another purchase.
Yes you can?
The shackled titan animated differently when used in conjunction with the Molag Bal polymorph. To get the most out of the setup you needed both.
This is no different except now you can use the special/different animation with any character, not just one using the polymorph.3 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »They're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
No, they don't affect YOUR gameplay. Some people play MMORPG's to collect tons of armor and mounts, to create a style and look for their main and alts characters. When these "cosmetics" cost, I dunna....$500.00 to obtain in a game we already paid for, in a chapter we already paid for with a subscription we already paid for...well then ya, customers like the OP have a right to complain because it absolutely affects how they play the game.
There are quite a few mounts that don't require money other than buying chapters. Some of them are pretty nice looking.
Irrelevant and does not address my post.
I mentioned that you don't need to spend money to get attractive mounts. I don't see how that's irrelevant to you complaining about spending money on attractive mounts.
Becuase I did not argue about spending money on attractive mounts. You statedThey're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
And I corrected you on the fact that not everyone plays the same way you do. Some people play for cosmetics, which does affect their gameplay.
Suggesting that players can get a handful of mounts in game does not negate what you said, inferring that everyone plays like you do.
You can't play for cosmetics with the crown store. That's not gameplay. Gameplay is scrying, doing events to earn tickets to get mounts, doing quests to unlock mounts (I think Necrom had one?), and doing trial trifectas to earn mounts. Swiping a credit card is not gameplay, so crown crate cosmetics do not involve gameplay in any way.
No, anything that involves the game is gameplay. Anything once you are past the log in screen is "playing the game".
It's not. The developers in this game don't even consider that way. Shop items are not gameplay because they do not involve play.
That is not a matter for them to develop on. Its a fundamental fact that if you are inside a game, past the log in screen playing it, you are playing it. It's all part of the gameplay.
Crown crates only take place in game, not outside of the game. Opening a crown crate is in fact gameplay, no one has the authority to cherry pick a definition of what gameplay is.
Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.
No. That isn't a fundamental fact. Gameplay is defined as the tactical aspects of a game, such as its plot or the way it's played. Gameplay isn't the same thing as in-game purchases (which is legally distinct), graphics, sound design, etc. There are separate elements that create a video game.
Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.
I gotta disagree with this one. Sitting down with pacrooti to open the mystery box is very different to Tales of Tribute. Even if someone doesn't like it there is actual strategy, tactics and counter strategies to consider while you play it. Crown crates are pure rng and basically a dressed up store menu.
But you are still playing the game, inside the game. The definition of "gamplay" is highly contentious and debated amongst game developers. There is no one rule. I argue that playing a part of the game, inside the game is part of that games "gameplay". It's not random, had to be desiged, art assets created, coded, implemented and updated to live servers to happen. It's not happenstance, its deliberate and by design. Part of the game, part of playing the game, part of the games gameplay.
Hiya! Game developer here. Microtransactions is not gameplay.
Paid-cosmetics may be something you can enjoy in-game, but it's the same way you enjoy popcorn in the movie theatre: yes, you paid for the popcorn to enhance your movie-going experience, but the important bit is that it's not part of the movie.
Hello fellow game dev. Microtransactions done outside of the game, are not gameplay. Microtransactions that take place in game like ESO where you have a minigame of gambling crates, are in fact gameplay."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes5 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »But now, imagine someone at ZOS went, "But what if the player wants the recoloring without using the polymorph? Oh, I know, we can unlock the recolored variant if the player owns the polymorph rather than uses the polymorph! Then they have more flexibility and choice!" I mean, this would be better for the players, right?
No. It wouldn't. Because now they can't just buy the thing they want and have to spend a lot of money on something they don't want to get something they do. If you just wanted the Molag Bal polymorph, you could just buy the polymorph.
I don't think it's hard to understand why being forced to buy both goes over worse than getting a small, free bonus if you choose to buy both.
And I don't mean forced as in someone has to spend money on anything in a video game. I mean forced as in the purchase is locked behind another purchase.
You're skipping over the comparison. The comparison is between a. making a certain cosmetic only usable when you have two other cosmetics equipped, and b. unlocking that certain cosmetic the moment you own those two other cosmetics. The former is more restrictive to the players, and almost every player would rather have the latter.Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
20 Argonians
6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 1x Unchained4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »But now, imagine someone at ZOS went, "But what if the player wants the recoloring without using the polymorph? Oh, I know, we can unlock the recolored variant if the player owns the polymorph rather than uses the polymorph! Then they have more flexibility and choice!" I mean, this would be better for the players, right?
No. It wouldn't. Because now they can't just buy the thing they want and have to spend a lot of money on something they don't want to get something they do. If you just wanted the Molag Bal polymorph, you could just buy the polymorph.
I don't think it's hard to understand why being forced to buy both goes over worse than getting a small, free bonus if you choose to buy both.
And I don't mean forced as in someone has to spend money on anything in a video game. I mean forced as in the purchase is locked behind another purchase.
Yes you can?
The shackled titan animated differently when used in conjunction with the Molag Bal polymorph. To get the most out of the setup you needed both.
This is no different except now you can use the special/different animation with any character, not just one using the polymorph.
But you could just buy the shackled titan straight up. You got a bonus for buying both but if the thing you most wanted was specifically shackled titan, you could get it2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »But now, imagine someone at ZOS went, "But what if the player wants the recoloring without using the polymorph? Oh, I know, we can unlock the recolored variant if the player owns the polymorph rather than uses the polymorph! Then they have more flexibility and choice!" I mean, this would be better for the players, right?
No. It wouldn't. Because now they can't just buy the thing they want and have to spend a lot of money on something they don't want to get something they do. If you just wanted the Molag Bal polymorph, you could just buy the polymorph.
I don't think it's hard to understand why being forced to buy both goes over worse than getting a small, free bonus if you choose to buy both.
And I don't mean forced as in someone has to spend money on anything in a video game. I mean forced as in the purchase is locked behind another purchase.
You're skipping over the comparison. The comparison is between a. making a certain cosmetic only usable when you have two other cosmetics equipped, and b. unlocking that certain cosmetic the moment you own those two other cosmetics. The former is more restrictive to the players, and almost every player would rather have the latter.
We know it is the former that got way more complaints. There's a default assumption here that everyone cares about unlocking every single aspect rather than just the part they want. But, that's not the case. Crate items are very expensive. A lot of people just pick one thing they want and go for that.2 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Okay, everyone, let's back up a little bit to last year, back to the Diamond Anniversary crates. The most expensive radiant apex (Shackled Titan) and the apex polymorph (Molag Bal), when used together, unlocked a special animation. Or something like that (I personally avoid anything related to crates, so I could be remembering the exact details wrong).
Now, imagine if ZOS had done something a little different this year. If you use the Dragonclash mount while using the Alduin polymorph, then the mount will take on a special coloring to match the polymorph. This would be exactly like the Tital/Bal thing, where when you used these two items together, they unlock a special thing, which is the mount changing its color to match the rider.
I don't recall there being multiple forum threads with people raising pitchforks at there being a special interaction between the Titan mount and Molag Bal polymorph, so I suspect that nobody would've cared if the Dragonclash mount had a special feature where it would change color to match the polymorph, if the player was wearing one.
But now, imagine someone at ZOS went, "But what if the player wants the recoloring without using the polymorph? Oh, I know, we can unlock the recolored variant if the player owns the polymorph rather than uses the polymorph! Then they have more flexibility and choice!" I mean, this would be better for the players, right? And yet, here we are, in a thread with people waving pitchforks. ZOS should've just done what they did last year and made the recoloring a special interaction if the polymorph is equipped. It would be more restrictive, but way better for their PR.
(Again, I avoid anything crate related. Never liked the concept. But I think it's a hilarious that people are in an uproar about this.)
I think there is some good and bad with the way that they did this crate unlock mechanic.
Because what you are saying is absolutely true about the Titan. I love the extra animation when being Molag Bal on the Titan, but I disliked being Molag Bal. Eventually I just stopped using the Titan.
On the other hand, having rewards unlock in such a way could cause some people to become obsessively sucked into trying to get the item that unlocks the free mounts. Afterall, a big reward doesn't just necessarily mean a new skin, it means "free" mounts too. These types of reward schemes can also cause people to get sucked in since it simmulates the illusion of free choice within a heavily RNG based system. People may feel an alure to gambling when they are coming up with their own self-talk about how clever they are to get all the free rewards (I'll use my seals here or gems there and pray on the crates), when no such agency really matters that much.
It's sort of cool that this season has many of the collectibles that I like such as weapon styles and skins. It also though is overloaded with these items in a weird way (like no alduin shield, or no akatosh mace). Being overloaded makes the crate season sort of toxic. I would have liked more consistency with the weapon styles too.
Lastly, I'd like to point out the dirty part, that the game possibly has a RNG based system which can be very detrimental to players if they get on a bad RNG seed that isn't refreshed between draws. I've noticed that crates are often feast or famine. I'll go from getting the Twitch Senche mount and Radiant Apex back to back to having a season where I get no Apex rewards at all over 75 crates and have many legendary rewards be repeated during the unboxing session. Something doesn't feel right with the games RNG and I've played enough ToT to believe that the issue could even be statistically signifigant due to the repeat card "bug" in that minigame.5 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »But now, imagine someone at ZOS went, "But what if the player wants the recoloring without using the polymorph? Oh, I know, we can unlock the recolored variant if the player owns the polymorph rather than uses the polymorph! Then they have more flexibility and choice!" I mean, this would be better for the players, right?
No. It wouldn't. Because now they can't just buy the thing they want and have to spend a lot of money on something they don't want to get something they do. If you just wanted the Molag Bal polymorph, you could just buy the polymorph.
I don't think it's hard to understand why being forced to buy both goes over worse than getting a small, free bonus if you choose to buy both.
And I don't mean forced as in someone has to spend money on anything in a video game. I mean forced as in the purchase is locked behind another purchase.
You're skipping over the comparison. The comparison is between a. making a certain cosmetic only usable when you have two other cosmetics equipped, and b. unlocking that certain cosmetic the moment you own those two other cosmetics. The former is more restrictive to the players, and almost every player would rather have the latter.
We know it is the former that got way more complaints. There's a default assumption here that everyone cares about unlocking every single aspect rather than just the part they want. But, that's not the case. Crate items are very expensive. A lot of people just pick one thing they want and go for that.
And yet people are raising pitchforks about the latter in this thread. How so?Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
20 Argonians
6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 1x Unchained0 -
ShutUpitsRed✭✭✭...How the heck did this post complaining about the 1.5x endeavor cost for an apex mount turn into arguing about what counts as gameplay?? Does it even matter? Though that's not nearly as weird as the bootlicking... like if you're ok with this crap good for you I guess.6
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Carlos93✭✭✭Zos should implement a roulette in which players can throw once a day to take free awards (lots of crowns of all types, mounts, gold, tel var, archive fortunes, parchments, antique tracks, etc.).
This roulette could be found in cities that are capitals of the kingdoms of the game.
In the style of the GTA V online video game that can be found in the Casino building.Edited by Carlos93 on June 22, 2025 4:42AM1 -
Carcamongus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While I don't agree that everything that happens in game is gameplay, this discussion on how far gameplay goes is quite pointless to the topic at hand. Cosmetics don't affect attributes, DPS, combat, the game's mechanics or the ability to perform in dungeons, trials, ToT, etc. For some these would be what defines gameplay, hence the common statement that "cosmetics don't affect gameplay". However, with so many ways to customize appearance, how a character looks inevitably became an important part of ESO and that's why these absurd requirements to get the free mounts are being criticized. Cosmetics don't affect what many consider gameplay, but they're relevant to players' experience, which is why these higher costs aren't a welcomed addition.Imperial DK and Necro tank. PC/NA
"Nothing is so bad that it can't get any worse." (Brazilian saying)0 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Zos should implement a roulette in which players can throw once a day to take free awards (lots of crowns of all types, mounts, gold, tel var, archive fortunes, parchments, antique tracks, etc.).
This roulette could be found in cities that are capitals of the kingdoms of the game.
In the style of the GTA V online video game that can be found in the Casino building.
Yep, 1 spin for non ESO+, 2 - for ESO+, and ZOS would sell additional spins in bundles of 10, 20, 50. ... Runescape had that at one point when I was playing it a long time ago. That would be another way to promote addictive behavior. We do not need any more of that here.1 -
Dock01✭✭✭
Do the devs even understand how ridiculous all of this is?- The game isn’t fun anymore...
- It’s all about DPS meters now.
- Zero change for solo play. Literally zero.
And this is what ZoS does?! 😂Just help me understand this, please: how the hell is it free if I still have to spend money?!
lol?! Out-of-season joke?
Some will defend this blindly and agree , no matter how they put it , you still have to put in your credit card info2 -
Dock01✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »They're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
No, they don't affect YOUR gameplay. Some people play MMORPG's to collect tons of armor and mounts, to create a style and look for their main and alts characters. When these "cosmetics" cost, I dunna....$500.00 to obtain in a game we already paid for, in a chapter we already paid for with a subscription we already paid for...well then ya, customers like the OP have a right to complain because it absolutely affects how they play the game.
There are quite a few mounts that don't require money other than buying chapters. Some of them are pretty nice looking.
Irrelevant and does not address my post.
I mentioned that you don't need to spend money to get attractive mounts. I don't see how that's irrelevant to you complaining about spending money on attractive mounts.
Becuase I did not argue about spending money on attractive mounts. You statedThey're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
And I corrected you on the fact that not everyone plays the same way you do. Some people play for cosmetics, which does affect their gameplay.
Suggesting that players can get a handful of mounts in game does not negate what you said, inferring that everyone plays like you do.
You can't play for cosmetics with the crown store. That's not gameplay. Gameplay is scrying, doing events to earn tickets to get mounts, doing quests to unlock mounts (I think Necrom had one?), and doing trial trifectas to earn mounts. Swiping a credit card is not gameplay, so crown crate cosmetics do not involve gameplay in any way.
No, anything that involves the game is gameplay. Anything once you are past the log in screen is "playing the game".
It's not. The developers in this game don't even consider that way. Shop items are not gameplay because they do not involve play.
That is not a matter for them to develop on. Its a fundamental fact that if you are inside a game, past the log in screen playing it, you are playing it. It's all part of the gameplay.
Crown crates only take place in game, not outside of the game. Opening a crown crate is in fact gameplay, no one has the authority to cherry pick a definition of what gameplay is.
Sitting down with Pacrooti and opening crown crates is no different than playing TOT. Its part of the game, its part of the gameplay. Its not combat, but its still playing the game.
Personally, I use my radiant apex mounts to flex how much money I have irl. I'm very good at the game of making money and spending it, which is about the only gameplay there is to buying crown crates.
I own real estate , office buildings, apartments, a 1,076,391 square foot ranch, plus a few others. I've done well for myself. So seeing someone flex a game mount like it proves something? Kinda funny, honestly. Not sure who you're trying to impress, but it says more about you than you think.
They’re not getting a cent from me. I see no value in predatory tactics like that. Sure, I could afford it easily but if someone tries to sell me fool’s gold for the price of the real thing, the answer will always be no.8 -
Ulvich✭✭✭✭✭ShutUpitsRed wrote: »I saved seals, and intended to buy crates, for Akatosh vs Alduin. The mounts looked so cool and I was so excited to reach my seal goal.
24,000 seals to get one, because you have to get the most expensive one (via gems) first AS WELL AS the corresponding living armor polymorph. That's assuming you have the seals in the first place. Rolling via actually buying the crates in hopes of getting one of these mounts is so much worse than the already awful drop rate.
Absolutely disgusting, ZOS. I've put up with a lot of crap over the years because I love this game, but this takes the cake.
This is a personal vent and I understand that not everyone is going to agree with me, but I also know I'm not the only one infuriated by this.
I can get behind you on this. It does seem a bit ridiculous in what they are asking.- BETA Group: 85 b 9
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- Hit hard. Hit Fast. Hit Often.0 -
fizzybeef✭✭✭✭This game literally encourages gambling addicting systems by the crown store slot machines and the odds are incredible low. I will never forget how i spent 300€ on that green apex heavy weight with the green spider arms.
After like 150 euro i was just like well i cant stop now, after literally dropping nothing i need, just tri pots and poisons.
So i tried to get enough gems to afford it.
Short story, took me another 150€, 300€ in total, because the gems you get for handling crown items are so less. On purpose obviously.
Since the seals of endeavour were released, i got to get one single mount by it.
You can not obtain crownstore items JUST BY PLAYING unless you have time to go everyday online and do endeavours, and even then you will likely miss some crownstore items specially if you just purchased one. Unless you pay for it.
The fact you cant obtain all these items just by playing the game makes it scammy.
It is scammy5 -
Lugaldu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm just wondering (since the topic of crown crates is currently active in several threads again): what about the people who actually enjoy Crown Crates? People who are aware of the gambling aspect and consciously choose to do so (I also had fun as a kid buying a few lottery tickets at the fair or when I was allowed to place a few bets with my parents at the racetrack – fully aware that the probability of winning something "great" was very slim).
Why these people's fun should be spoiled because others complain that there's something they can't just ignore if they don't like it?
There are some things IRL that I might like to have, but that I'll probably never get. How can a mount in a game be so important that if you can't get it, you'd gladly see an entire system abolished.4 -
Cooperharley✭✭✭✭✭
✭They're cosmetics.
They don't affect gameplay in any way.
I’ve always disliked this POV personally. Here’s why:
Excessive monetization & cosmetics takes away from actual earnable in game assets. Veteran player retention is at an all time low as it’s decreased year after year and it’s due to poor repeatable gameplay loops: not a lot worth doing end game wise. It’s a structural/foundational issue, but always a time spent vs time rewarded issue as well.PS5-NA. For The Queen!12
