seriously, please shut down this post (SOLVED)

Daoin · April 25

am i the only person in eso to feel cheated out of all the cash i spent on eso for 10 years now a simple hammer has been added to the toolbox of never ending tweaks, system of class identity crashing not landing ? and losing friends in-game to quitting or losing heart because of this terrible update ?

Pixiepumpkin · April 25

No, you are not the only one. I can say at least for my wife and I, we feel very similar about the changes coming and how they impact the monetary and time investment into this game for the past 10 years.

MJallday · April 25

There’s certainly a vocal amount of people who don’t like anything but a pure class system

Personally i would prefer that - but it involves balancing the game, which the team have conclusively proved time and again they can’t do

Therefore we are left with this “soup” of a system - which I suspect will cause more problems than it will solve

That all said - I’m excited to try it and I’ll have fun experimenting - so I’m not going to throw away 10
Or so years of game time because of this

RealLoveBVB · April 25

Pretty much this.

My gf and I are just logging in for our raidgroups and sometimes IA.

But the fun on this also slowly decreases, as players burn out or are not happy with unnecessary changes, which make them quit, which makes those raid groups dying.

One of our groups has only 11 players and every week we have to check for a replacement. But it's difficult to prog triples then, because that replacement have to learn the way we play some mechs and at the end there isn't really progress, which feels like a wasted evening every time.

IA was attractive at the beginning, but it lost its appeal too, as there is no save option and we ask ourselves if it was worth to waste a day just for a good run.
Runs could be better, if there was an option to save the progress, as concentration goes down the later it proceeds.

Maybe its also time to check for something else, when the next useless update goes live.

TaSheen · April 25

No, you are not alone. I'm still reading (and occasionally posting) in the forum, but I haven't logged into the game in a couple of weeks.

I'm feeling the need to uninstall.

licenturion · April 25

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either. And if people want to control how others look or play, online games are not the right genre.

This reminds me of the all the prerelease theatrics of Assassins Creed Shadows where people made it seem the world would end, but in the end it is the second most sold title of 2025, and it only is a month out yet. Pretty sure subclassing will be a hit among the general player base as well. ZOS has the data and marketing research to make decisions what to add.

RealLoveBVB · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either.

Depends what content you play. If you are in a prog raid group, then you are pretty much forced to use certain things.

Also, players who play several years, can pretty much imagine what to expect from updates.

AzuraFan · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If it's optional, great. But reports from PTS say that unless you subclass, you'll be left behind. Also, skills are being changed/nerfed to accommodate subclassing, so it's not optional if the skills you like to use are being gutted for a system you're not interested in.

But to be fair, maybe they'll manage to balance 3000+ combinations in a way that doesn't involve gutting anything. After all, they did manage to balance the pure classes and...oh, wait.

TaSheen · April 25

AzuraFan wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If it's optional, great. But reports from PTS say that unless you subclass, you'll be left behind. Also, skills are being changed/nerfed to accommodate subclassing, so it's not optional if the skills you like to use are being gutted for a system you're not interested in.

But to be fair, maybe they'll manage to balance 3000+ combinations in a way that doesn't involve gutting anything. After all, they did manage to balance the pure classes and...oh, wait.

This.

Daoin · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either.

This reminds me of the all the prerelease theatrics of Assassins Creed Shadows where people made it seem the world would end, but in the end it is the second most sold title of 2025, and it only is a month out yet. Pretty sure subclassing will be a hit among the general player base as well. ZOS has the data and marketing research to make decisions what to add.

its not dramatic, players i consider close hate it, some are simply not going to play the game and i know for a fact after years of experience chatting with players about our toons that its a crap idea and that others who remain quiet about it simply wont like it anyway even if they continue to play. and the only drama here is the fact we only have 5 weeks to finish up what we want to do with out toons that we have had for nearly a decade, some of them, and stuck with the game through all the crap changes already to them and still enjoyed playing them due to thier class anyway, before they get diluted into some sort of hybrids and a final decision must be made. uninstall for the last time or see this mess through too because this is so bad of a change there simply is no amount tweaking it to ever make it better again. i am also not saying there are enough players that dont like the change to cause a drama about it, hence the post about my own feeling towards it. it just feels like when i log in now theres a really big elephant in the room

Koshka · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either. And if people want to control how others look or play, online games are not the right genre.

This reminds me of the all the prerelease theatrics of Assassins Creed Shadows where people made it seem the world would end, but in the end it is the second most sold title of 2025, and it only is a month out yet. Pretty sure subclassing will be a hit among the general player base as well. ZOS has the data and marketing research to make decisions what to add.

It's nothing like the AC drama. That had nothing to do with mechanics and was caused by so-called "culture war".
And it's not "optional" when your "pure" char will get nerfed because one of their skill lines is OP in tandem with another class' skill line. Not to mention that ZOS balances new group content around whatever is considered high dps in the current patch... And if "pure" class pulls 30k less, in means they will be left behind.

Pixiepumpkin · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

Optional™

For the most part the PTS is not about testing whether a system will be integrated or not, but more to do with using players to find bugs and stress test. What is on the PTS now, as history has shown will be what is pushed to live.
So, "drama" not need apply. Peoples concerns are very real and for good reason.

licenturion wrote: »

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it.

My answer above covers this as well.

licenturion wrote: »

It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either.

Except on the PTS the subclass DPS is shown to be far superior to "pure" class DPS, people will be EXPECTED to run the higher DPS (ergo forced to subclass). This has been proven time and time again, in EVERY single MMORPG and EVERY single patch from anyone of these games since their inception. Players are always expected to run the FOTM build to make group content runs easier.

licenturion wrote: »

And if people want to control how others look or play, online games are not the right genre.

You mean like forcing players to run sub-class builds or be left on the bench?

licenturion wrote: »

This reminds me of the all the prerelease theatrics of Assassins Creed Shadows where people made it seem the world would end, but in the end it is the second most sold title of 2025, and it only is a month out yet. Pretty sure subclassing will be a hit among the general player base as well. ZOS has the data and marketing research to make decisions what to add.

Single player games are not designed the same as multiplayer games, nor can they be. They each have specific demands that must be met and are often multually exclusive in those design parameters.

licenturion · April 25

Koshka wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either. And if people want to control how others look or play, online games are not the right genre.

This reminds me of the all the prerelease theatrics of Assassins Creed Shadows where people made it seem the world would end, but in the end it is the second most sold title of 2025, and it only is a month out yet. Pretty sure subclassing will be a hit among the general player base as well. ZOS has the data and marketing research to make decisions what to add.

It's nothing like the AC drama. That had nothing to do with mechanics and was caused by so-called "culture war".
And it's not "optional" when your "pure" char will get nerfed because one of their skill lines is OP in tandem with another class' skill line. Not to mention that ZOS balances new group content around whatever is considered high dps in the current patch... And if "pure" class pulls 30k less, in means they will be left behind.

This is all speculation so far until the final version is live. We will first have to see what classes and skill lines get nerfed or buffed. If you want to have balance, keep testing and submitting feedback on the PTS. That is the only way. I am sure they will do their best to keep class identity relevant. And they will not change 10 years of group content overnight either if you see how long it takes for overland difficulty changes.

One thing is for sure: they will launch it and there are also a lot player super enthusiastic about the new system.

Daoin · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either. And if people want to control how others look or play, online games are not the right genre.

This reminds me of the all the prerelease theatrics of Assassins Creed Shadows where people made it seem the world would end, but in the end it is the second most sold title of 2025, and it only is a month out yet. Pretty sure subclassing will be a hit among the general player base as well. ZOS has the data and marketing research to make decisions what to add.

It's nothing like the AC drama. That had nothing to do with mechanics and was caused by so-called "culture war".
And it's not "optional" when your "pure" char will get nerfed because one of their skill lines is OP in tandem with another class' skill line. Not to mention that ZOS balances new group content around whatever is considered high dps in the current patch... And if "pure" class pulls 30k less, in means they will be left behind.

This is all speculation so far until the final version is live. We will first have to see what classes and skill lines get nerfed or buffed. If you want to have balance, keep testing and submitting feedback on the PTS. That is the only way. I am sure they will do their best to keep class identity relevant. And they will not change 10 years of group content overnight either if you see how long it takes for overland difficulty changes.

One thing is for sure: they will launch it and there are also a lot player super enthusiastic about the new system.

the origial question and a couple of replies confirm there is no specualation here on this topic, this is what is coming and friends and acquaintances are the ones already going or gone. how it actually performs once its out is not a question here. for me personally this is the fastest i have ever seen anyone actually truly quit playing even before the end of PTS, i swear i tried to water it all down but i cant

Pixiepumpkin · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either. And if people want to control how others look or play, online games are not the right genre.

This reminds me of the all the prerelease theatrics of Assassins Creed Shadows where people made it seem the world would end, but in the end it is the second most sold title of 2025, and it only is a month out yet. Pretty sure subclassing will be a hit among the general player base as well. ZOS has the data and marketing research to make decisions what to add.

It's nothing like the AC drama. That had nothing to do with mechanics and was caused by so-called "culture war".
And it's not "optional" when your "pure" char will get nerfed because one of their skill lines is OP in tandem with another class' skill line. Not to mention that ZOS balances new group content around whatever is considered high dps in the current patch... And if "pure" class pulls 30k less, in means they will be left behind.

This is all speculation so far until the final version is live. We will first have to see what classes and skill lines get nerfed or buffed. If you want to have balance, keep testing and submitting feedback on the PTS. That is the only way. I am sure they will do their best to keep class identity relevant. And they will not change 10 years of group content overnight either if you see how long it takes for overland difficulty changes.

One thing is for sure: they will launch it and there are also a lot player super enthusiastic about the new system.

Its not speculation. What is on the PTS will be pushed to live. Minor adjustments will be made, nothing sweeping. They have already nerfed some classes (like sorc) into darn near oblivion, especially if you are used to playing a no pet build. Its a fundamental change into how people play.

And you are right, this will go live and those who love to max DPS will love sub-classing.

Those who actually like RPG aspects of the game, will not, they will vehmently hate it because it literally destroys a core fundamental of the 10 year old game, and that is class identity.

Koshka · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either. And if people want to control how others look or play, online games are not the right genre.

This reminds me of the all the prerelease theatrics of Assassins Creed Shadows where people made it seem the world would end, but in the end it is the second most sold title of 2025, and it only is a month out yet. Pretty sure subclassing will be a hit among the general player base as well. ZOS has the data and marketing research to make decisions what to add.

It's nothing like the AC drama. That had nothing to do with mechanics and was caused by so-called "culture war".
And it's not "optional" when your "pure" char will get nerfed because one of their skill lines is OP in tandem with another class' skill line. Not to mention that ZOS balances new group content around whatever is considered high dps in the current patch... And if "pure" class pulls 30k less, in means they will be left behind.

This is all speculation so far until the final version is live. We will first have to see what classes and skill lines get nerfed or buffed. If you want to have balance, keep testing and submitting feedback on the PTS. That is the only way. I am sure they will do their best to keep class identity relevant. And they will not change 10 years of group content overnight either if you see how long it takes for overland difficulty changes.

One thing is for sure: they will launch it and there are also a lot player super enthusiastic about the new system.

It's not speculation. It's backed by pts tests and the way how ZOS handled previous controversial patches.
When they pushed hybridization, people were also defending it, saying that it merely provides options... And it turned out to be so "optional" that even 1 bar overland builds take medium armor these days. And this class mixing thing is way more powerful than using medium armor on a magickla dd. Therefore, people who want to play a pure class will be left behind.
I do hope that ZOS end up changing something to lessen the impact of this system, but I remember how they handled controversial changes in the past.

icapital · April 25

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either.

Depends what content you play. If you are in a prog raid group, then you are pretty much forced to use certain things.

Also, players who play several years, can pretty much imagine what to expect from updates.

this is true regardless of this new system...there will always be a META, always. And if you choose to run an inferior build to said META your chances of being accepted into a group environment materially decrease...

this change isn't some magical outlier that suddenly introduces the concept of META...

this whole argument of "pure classes" is downright silly.

React · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

It is wild to me how some people are in full drama mode over an update with an OPTIONAL system that is currently in testing and only had the chance to receive 1 small hotfix on the beta server. It is still 5 weeks away.

If you want to be dramatic, angry, upset etc at least wait until it is actually live and people have actually experience the final version of it. It is also optional if you don't want to use it. So don't use it if you are so against it. U are not forced to use scribing or companions either. And if people want to control how others look or play, online games are not the right genre.

Come now. Let's not pretend that there is actually a "choice" in regards to subclassing when it comes to endgame PVP and PVE. If you do not take advantage of this system, you will be drastically less effective in combat than those who do. Full stop. Across every role, in every group composition, in any game mode.

If you're a player that cares about doing this content, you're massively griefing yourself and your group mates by not taking advantage of subclassing. For those of us who have played this game since launch and enjoyed the class based system, this change is going to really impact how much variety we have within our preferred content.

Daoin · April 25

one of the elephants in the room though is we paid real cash for something eso does not offer anymore, our classes, through good and bad we played them except those of us who subbed along the way did not know we were the ones paying for the hammer to smash them up when tweaking obviously was going nowhere. people i guess paid for classes and thats what they expect to get

Pixiepumpkin · April 25

icapital wrote: »

this is true regardless of this new system...there will always be a META, always. And if you choose to run an inferior build to said META your chances of being accepted into a group environment materially decrease...

And subclassing will force players to level EVERY class in the game to ensure they can meet this new demand.
Secondly, you don't throw gasoline on a fire. Subclassing makes the "meta" chase worse. The DPS is far greater even on the PTS than pure classes.

icapital wrote: »

this change isn't some magical outlier that suddenly introduces the concept of META...

No, but its a step in the literal wrong diection, making "meta" even more mandatory than before. Where as instead they could have moved towards class integrity, and also removing the ability to track other players data to remove the "meta" from being trackable.

icapital wrote: »

this whole argument of "pure classes" is downright silly.

In your opinion. The game was sold with classes, and should be played with classes, not frankenstein builds that destroy all sense of the class and its identity.

We paid for classes in ESO. Its what we expect to be able to play with. If you do not like classes, there are other games like New World, who are massively hurting for players that you can live out your classless fantasy, but please allow us to continue playing our classes to fulfill our class fantasy, even in group content.

icapital · April 25

This argument works both ways, if you do not like build diversity, there are other games like World of Warcraft, who has plenty of confined and structured classes and specs.In fact, you can only play 1 specific spec of a class at any given time. Doesn't get more class-centric than that. Also, where was it announced that classes are completely going away?

ESO has always been about player agency and we, the players, deciding how we play the game. Build diversity and how we choose to build our characters is just a part of that agency. Want to be a mage and use heavy armor and a bow? Go for it. Want to be a knight in light armor who casts fire spells with a staff? Go for it. etc. etc.

Adding the ability to bring in new skill lines only adds to the diversity and player agency which I greatly welcome.

Daoin · April 25

icapital wrote: »

This argument works both ways, if you do not like build diversity, there are other games like World of Warcraft, who has plenty of confined and structured classes and specs.In fact, you can only play 1 specific spec of a class at any given time. Doesn't get more class-centric than that. Also, where was it announced that classes are completely going away?

ESO has always been about player agency and we, the players, deciding how we play the game. Build diversity and how we choose to build our characters is just a part of that agency.

in update 46,gone.the short reason from an aquaintance not loggin again ? 'i played for my class identity without it i am gone'. for me however when i joined at beta i wanted to join because i wanted to play a sorc with sorc skills and joined due to that class then it went from there, evetually staying becasue i started wanting to play other classes too. however it does not work both ways i have never even considered playing WoW and such games as i like the elder scrolls

Elvenheart · April 25

Just solely to answer the original question about feeling cheated out of 10 years of money spent due to this change or any other change that could have been made by ZOS - no. I’ve enjoyed the game for 10 years and invested my time and money in the game in various ways over the years, and loved every minute of it. If it turns out that I hate Subclassing so much that I can no longer play the game, I’ll still consider my time and money over the last 10 years well spent. I would be devastated and heartbroken that I could no longer play, just like if instead of a change that drove me away, ZOS were to shut down the game, but I would never regret my time spent there because after what’s happened to me before, it’s hard to think of any game as something I’m investing in for the future.

At one point in my life, City of Heroes was my most favorite game. I had played it for years and had tons of characters there. When I read the notice that it was being shut down, I immediately called someone to tell him what was happening and I was so distraught and incoherent he told me he thought someone had died. (I know I can play it now on new servers that have sprung up for the public, but I tried and it’s just not the same). I never for one moment regretted anything I had given that game except for maybe so much of my heart and soul because of all the happiness playing it had given me. But I had never even considered the possibility of the game just disappearing, so I wasn’t prepared at all.

Ever since then I’ve approached playing MMOs as more of an “in the now” type of experience in the hopes of never having to go through something like that again. Like I said, I would be devastated if I had to quit playing ESO for any reason, but I hope I would be able to handle the loss better this time around.

licenturion · April 25

Daoin wrote: »

the origial question and a couple of replies confirm there is no specualation here on this topic, this is what is coming and friends and acquaintances are the ones already going or gone. how it actually performs once its out is not a question here. for me personally this is the fastest i have ever seen anyone actually truly quit playing even before the end of PTS, i swear i tried to water it all down but i cant

Sorry but if people already bail out before such a big system is out without even trying it in final form (or with a few early hotfixes), they are not really fans of the game at all.

It’s like walking out of a restaurant because you saw the ingredients being prepped and assumed you wouldn’t like the dish — without even tasting the final meal. You don’t know how it’s seasoned, how it’s presented, or how all the elements come together. Real fans at least stay to try the finished plate before deciding it’s not for them.

AzuraFan · April 25

Elvenheart wrote: »

Just solely to answer the original question about feeling cheated out of 10 years of money spent due to this change or any other change that could have been made by ZOS - no. I’ve enjoyed the game for 10 years and invested my time and money in the game in various ways over the years, and loved every minute of it. If it turns out that I hate Subclassing so much that I can no longer play the game, I’ll still consider my time and money over the last 10 years well spent. I would be devastated and heartbroken that I could no longer play, just like if instead of a change that drove me away, ZOS were to shut down the game, but I would never regret my time spent there because after what’s happened to me before, it’s hard to think of any game as something I’m investing in for the future.

[...]

Ever since then I’ve approached playing MMOs as more of an “in the now” type of experience in the hopes of never having to go through something like that again. Like I said, I would be devastated if I had to quit playing ESO for any reason, but I hope I would be able to handle the loss better this time around.

That's how I feel. If subclassing turns out to be the thing that kills the game for me, I won't consider the time I've spent in ESO a waste of time. In fact, I'll stick around to finish up what I want to finish up before I ride off into the sunset on one of my favourite mounts.

As a predominantly SP-game player, one thing I hate about MMOs is the constant change, which is why ESO will likely be my last one. But change is a fact of the MMO life, so I've learned never to become too attached to an MMO or any characters I play. I enjoy the party, but I always know when it's time to leave, and I do so with no regrets.

old_scopie1945 · April 25

MJallday wrote: »

There’s certainly a vocal amount of people who don’t like anything but a pure class system

Personally i would prefer that - but it involves balancing the game, which the team have conclusively proved time and again they can’t do

Therefore we are left with this “soup” of a system - which I suspect will cause more problems than it will solve

That all said - I’m excited to try it and I’ll have fun experimenting - so I’m not going to throw away 10
Or so years of game time because of this

Yes, we are singing from the same hymn sheet. Though I am totally hacked off by the route ZOS are taking, I won't throw up my hands that easily. I was equally hacked off over AWA, but I'm still hear. 7P’s (Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents *** Poor Performance.) or something like that.

Daoin · April 25

licenturion wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

the origial question and a couple of replies confirm there is no specualation here on this topic, this is what is coming and friends and acquaintances are the ones already going or gone. how it actually performs once its out is not a question here. for me personally this is the fastest i have ever seen anyone actually truly quit playing even before the end of PTS, i swear i tried to water it all down but i cant

Sorry but if people already bail out before such a big system is out without even trying it in final form (or with a few early hotfixes), they are not really fans of the game at all.

It’s like walking out of a restaurant because you saw the ingredients being prepped and assumed you wouldn’t like the dish — without even tasting the final meal. You don’t know how it’s seasoned, how it’s presented, or how all the elements come together. Real fans at least stay to try the finished plate before deciding it’s not for them.

i tried watering things down too to make them stay to see how things turn out but the notes are there and and thats what is coming i know now no point in the watering down stuff, just time to prepare for some tough decisions

Pixiepumpkin · April 25

icapital wrote: »

This argument works both ways, if you do not like build diversity, there are other games like World of Warcraft, who has plenty of confined and structured classes and specs.In fact, you can only play 1 specific spec of a class at any given time. Doesn't get more class-centric than that. Also, where was it announced that classes are completely going away?

You are missing a key point. This game was SOLD with classes with a GREAT sense of what it meant to be a dragonknight, or a sorcerer, templer, etc. What we paid for, was a game with classes. I bought this game because of in part, classes (I don't play classless games, I find them utterly boring).

When did they announce that classes were going away? When they released sub-classing. It is impossible to tell what class a class is if they use 3 skill lines from 3 classes. Playing a game with classes is not just playing the class you want to play, its observing the other classes playing around you. With sub-classing, this has gone away.

icapital wrote: »

ESO has always been about player agency and we, the players, deciding how we play the game. Build diversity and how we choose to build our characters is just a part of that agency. Want to be a mage and use heavy armor and a bow? Go for it. Want to be a knight in light armor who casts fire spells with a staff? Go for it. etc. etc.

Adding the ability to bring in new skill lines only adds to the diversity and player agency which I greatly welcome.

Build diversity is a farse due to the meta. One can not simply play a "mage in heavy armor with a bow" and expect to do well in a group setting. This is first and foremost an online game designed to be played with other players at some point in your adventure. That alone strips away "player agency".
The lack of PVP balance also strips "player agency".

And brining "new skill lines" in the form of " sub classing" does not bring diversity, it actually forced homogonization, because in order to get any of the cool rewards (found in vet trials and dungeons), the player is going to be forced to run the meta, which for players who purchased the game to play a class, is the opposite of player agency.

Pevey · April 25

I would have much preferred if the same NPC and quests they created for this feature could instead be used to try out different classes with a single character. So an in-game class switch mechanic. But perhaps with a time cost/grind to keep people from changing classes too frequently. This would allow people who play mostly one character/one class to experience other classes. It is human nature to think the grass is greener on the other side, especially if you feel locked out of the other side. Letting people experience other classes would help get better data on what balance issues are just perception issues and where there are really problems. And it would help give people the feeling of freedom they expect in an elder scrolls game to shape and change their character, without throwing away the whole class kit concept.

icapital · April 25

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

icapital wrote: »

This argument works both ways, if you do not like build diversity, there are other games like World of Warcraft, who has plenty of confined and structured classes and specs.In fact, you can only play 1 specific spec of a class at any given time. Doesn't get more class-centric than that. Also, where was it announced that classes are completely going away?

You are missing a key point. This game was SOLD with classes with a GREAT sense of what it meant to be a dragonknight, or a sorcerer, templer, etc. What we paid for, was a game with classes. I bought this game because of in part, classes (I don't play classless games, I find them utterly boring).

When did they announce that classes were going away? When they released sub-classing. It is impossible to tell what class a class is if they use 3 skill lines from 3 classes. Playing a game with classes is not just playing the class you want to play, its observing the other classes playing around you. With sub-classing, this has gone away.

icapital wrote: »

ESO has always been about player agency and we, the players, deciding how we play the game. Build diversity and how we choose to build our characters is just a part of that agency. Want to be a mage and use heavy armor and a bow? Go for it. Want to be a knight in light armor who casts fire spells with a staff? Go for it. etc. etc.

Adding the ability to bring in new skill lines only adds to the diversity and player agency which I greatly welcome.

Build diversity is a farse due to the meta. One can not simply play a "mage in heavy armor with a bow" and expect to do well in a group setting. This is first and foremost an online game designed to be played with other players at some point in your adventure. That alone strips away "player agency".
The lack of PVP balance also strips "player agency".

And brining "new skill lines" in the form of " sub classing" does not bring diversity, it actually forced homogonization, because in order to get any of the cool rewards (found in vet trials and dungeons), the player is going to be forced to run the meta, which for players who purchased the game to play a class, is the opposite of player agency.

You absolutely can play how you want, when you want, where you want, at your own discretion. No one is forcing you to follow the META. Start your own groups if you have an issue with meta based gameplay.

Your argument consists of "I don't like it, so it's objectively bad" when your opinion is simply subjective.

There is absolutely player agency. Whether or not you choose to follow trends, such as the META, is completely up to you, the player, ergo player agency.

I have nothing else to say concerning the matter because all we're doing is going in circles. I welcome this positive change to the game.

SeaGtGruff · April 25

I’m planning to be here until they shut off the servers, or I lose all access to electricity and internet, or I die, whichever comes first.