seriously, please shut down this post (SOLVED)

Mayrael · April 26

I love this system so far (I play more on PTS now than on live lol), it opens up so much possibilities!

The only ones who don't anticipate it are the ones who are afraid of losing current status quo, and the ones with gazillion toons leveled for different roles.

From what I've tested on PTS our base class still matters since it's up to us how many new lines we will use, because sometimes it's better to replace just one skill line.

TLDR; This change is simply amazing, most of the players will love it.

Daoin · April 26

Mayrael wrote: »

I love this system so far (I play more on PTS now than on live lol), it opens up so much possibilities!

The only ones who don't anticipate it are the ones who are afraid of losing current status quo, and the ones with gazillion toons leveled for different roles.

From what I've tested on PTS our base class still matters since it's up to us how many new lines we will use, because sometimes it's better to replace just one skill line.

TLDR; This change is simply amazing, most of the players will love it.

do you mean those who have invested alot of time into characters of different classes ? also this is not a crit at the reply and thankyou but all players have no choice and only the ones who like it will continue to play eso properly which would be forgiven as seeing it as most people liking it as those who dont are like not going to be around. I am all for being in support of the update but the reply has me thinking about all the bad again. maybe a differently worded support post for the update could help work the magic. if anything happens over on PTS that helps create some form of divide between the old class system and the new system please be sure to post here again

something i could use as ammo while watering the update down to folk. as it stands now oblivion remastered is downloading hopefully will help to go back to grass routes for a while (this already equals 60 pounds spent elswhere due to an eso update which i would not have done before, but the sunny side is a cut/stop to eso+ sub would make up the difference after a few months and give savings in the long run given the fact i have had eso + since forever it was just always noted as money already spent each month. i will end the + at the end of this cycle then work around that in game) i cannot in good concience pay to help drive the players i like away. but until now eso had been a blast and enjoyed 90% of my time so the money was well spent. luckily just like my i did with my chars chars im a bit of a keen eye to detail and stay tidy freak so my bank is always close to spotless along with all my chars inventories so im not worried about space. and i already had a dedicated house for furniture storage so no change there either. and the chances of me ever running out of potion gold or already stored material is none-existent so its win win all around i can just still do what i have to totally free

licenturion · April 26

Mayrael wrote: »

I love this system so far (I play more on PTS now than on live lol), it opens up so much possibilities!

The only ones who don't anticipate it are the ones who are afraid of losing current status quo, and the ones with gazillion toons leveled for different roles.

From what I've tested on PTS our base class still matters since it's up to us how many new lines we will use, because sometimes it's better to replace just one skill line.

TLDR; This change is simply amazing, most of the players will love it.

Yeah and I also saw the announcement that scribing comes to the base game for free for everyone next month.

So gameplay wise everyone has now all the same tools to experiment with if they want to and they probably will expand on those systems in the future too.

And then there is the ongoing thing with Vengeance. ZOS is really changing things up to keep things fresh and flexible and it will probably attract new players as well.

Daoin · April 26

thankyou for the replies and coversations everyone it really helped me find my feet again and where to go from here

Castagere · April 27

I had ESO on my PC for 8 years. I also have had enough of the stuff being put out with this latest update. The content pass is forcing me to pay for content I never do like, dungeons, and the fact that it's yearly makes it worse. But their boss, Microsoft, loves the season pass model, so of course, they added it in ESO. And the so-called subclassing thing that's not really subclassing and the always bold claim that this is what we all have been asking for, is not true. I have never seen a post from anyone asking for it. And if you want the worm cult content, you don't even get it all at once, so they can give justice to the yearly content change. So, after my 8-year run, I have uninstalled ESO from my PC for the first time. The worst part is that in every stream they do, they claim something we've all been asking for.

Daoin · April 27

i strongly doubt anyone believes casual eso players asked for a cheating way to borrow skill lines from other classes to get jobs done. and then posted new all time high dps levels of themselves from test servers everywhere. that is beyond the scope of reality of any other casual players i know of

Orbital78 · April 27

Daoin wrote: »

i strongly doubt anyone believes casual eso players asked for a cheating way to borrow skill lines from other classes to get jobs done

It doesn't matter at this point. Don't fight it, just let it happen and enjoy it.

Pixiepumpkin · April 27

joshisanonymous wrote: »

I'm not thrilled about subclassing, but I don't understand what this has to do with money you've spent. Are you saying that once you spend money on an MMO, that MMO is not allowed to change from that point forward?

MMO's can change, sure, it is expected they do....but not completely rewriting a core aspect of the game. Sub-classing removes class identity, something people have been asking for ZOS to double down on (making class identity stronger), instead they wen't in the opposite direction.

AtriaKhorist · April 27

I do wonder what sort of groups people play in that claim you MUST follow the meta.

I mean, I see it when you're scorepushing Trial Trifectas, but people in here claim it's the case for dungeons.

I do Dungeon Trifectas. I don't have a single meta build, and what's 'meta' for a meticulously planned trial group wouldn't be meta for our far more random 4 mans anyway.

If someone asked you to run a trial meta build for a 4 Man Trifecta, bonk them. If needed, find a better group.

Pixiepumpkin · April 27

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

I do wonder what sort of groups people play in that claim you MUST follow the meta.

I mean, I see it when you're scorepushing Trial Trifectas, but people in here claim it's the case for dungeons.

I do Dungeon Trifectas. I don't have a single meta build, and what's 'meta' for a meticulously planned trial group wouldn't be meta for our far more random 4 mans anyway.

If someone asked you to run a trial meta build for a 4 Man Trifecta, bonk them. If needed, find a better group.

It's not that complex.

I have been vote kicked out of dungeons because I was doing 37% of the DPS and the other DPS felt that they were doing the other 63% (forgetting that the tank and healer are also contributing).

I always say hello, I never speed run unless the group is, I wait for quests and respect other players. So I know its not an "attitude" thing, its a "the other DPS feels like they are doing all the work thing".

To a degree, I get it. I have run dungeons where I was the TANK doing 85% of the overall damage. But I have never vote kicked DPS for not doing their part.

The issue is, this was not a one time occurance and has forever stained me about some of the players and the design of the game (a better solution would have been to implement 5 person groups. This obfuscates who is doing most of the work and it absorbs a DPS out of the queue pool..win win).

said no one ever · April 27

I don't scry or scribe or play tales of tribute or use arcanist or necromancer and when these things that don't interest me were added and I mentioned that that was so I was told I didn't have to play them. Yeah sure I don't have to play them but they added no value to the game for me. Meanwhile they added value to the game for others. Subclassing looks like it might actually add value to the game for me and I might consider playing an arcanist if I can do away with their assanine intrusive healing skills and replace it with something useful and not breaking my 1st person view gameplay and everyone on the forums is mostly having a melt down over what? If you don't like it or if it doesn't interest you then you dont have to play it. Choice is a wonderful thing after all and you are free to not play it just as I am free to not play all the things that don't interest me.

Koshka · April 27

Orbital78 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

i strongly doubt anyone believes casual eso players asked for a cheating way to borrow skill lines from other classes to get jobs done

It doesn't matter at this point. Don't fight it, just let it happen and enjoy it.

This sounds really... wrong.

licenturion · April 27

Koshka wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

i strongly doubt anyone believes casual eso players asked for a cheating way to borrow skill lines from other classes to get jobs done

It doesn't matter at this point. Don't fight it, just let it happen and enjoy it.

This sounds really... wrong.

It does not.

The system will come to the base game on June 2. Scribing will also come that day to the basegame. These are facts and people (even the ones posting here) know it deep down.

The only things you can do at this point is:
- helping to test on PTS and experiment and find/point out overperforming or underperforming combinations
- ignore the system if you are not interested in it
- leave now without even experiencing how the final version plays on live

But 'I will quit if you do this' posts is totally pointless, will change nothing and even against forum rules.

AtriaKhorist · April 27

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

I do wonder what sort of groups people play in that claim you MUST follow the meta.

I mean, I see it when you're scorepushing Trial Trifectas, but people in here claim it's the case for dungeons.

I do Dungeon Trifectas. I don't have a single meta build, and what's 'meta' for a meticulously planned trial group wouldn't be meta for our far more random 4 mans anyway.

If someone asked you to run a trial meta build for a 4 Man Trifecta, bonk them. If needed, find a better group.

It's not that complex.

I have been vote kicked out of dungeons because I was doing 37% of the DPS and the other DPS felt that they were doing the other 63% (forgetting that the tank and healer are also contributing).

I always say hello, I never speed run unless the group is, I wait for quests and respect other players. So I know its not an "attitude" thing, its a "the other DPS feels like they are doing all the work thing".

To a degree, I get it. I have run dungeons where I was the TANK doing 85% of the overall damage. But I have never vote kicked DPS for not doing their part.

The issue is, this was not a one time occurance and has forever stained me about some of the players and the design of the game (a better solution would have been to implement 5 person groups. This obfuscates who is doing most of the work and it absorbs a DPS out of the queue pool..win win).

Frankly, that's a people problem, not a meta problem. And a bizarre one ontop paired with an assumption on what the reasoning was.

I got kicked out of dungeons before they started. Others leave before they start. It happens. Move on.

Doesn't change that you can blast through Dungeon Trifectas off-meta, and that meta builds aren't designed for 4 Man in the first place.

Pixiepumpkin · April 27

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

I do wonder what sort of groups people play in that claim you MUST follow the meta.

I mean, I see it when you're scorepushing Trial Trifectas, but people in here claim it's the case for dungeons.

I do Dungeon Trifectas. I don't have a single meta build, and what's 'meta' for a meticulously planned trial group wouldn't be meta for our far more random 4 mans anyway.

If someone asked you to run a trial meta build for a 4 Man Trifecta, bonk them. If needed, find a better group.

It's not that complex.

I have been vote kicked out of dungeons because I was doing 37% of the DPS and the other DPS felt that they were doing the other 63% (forgetting that the tank and healer are also contributing).

I always say hello, I never speed run unless the group is, I wait for quests and respect other players. So I know its not an "attitude" thing, its a "the other DPS feels like they are doing all the work thing".

To a degree, I get it. I have run dungeons where I was the TANK doing 85% of the overall damage. But I have never vote kicked DPS for not doing their part.

The issue is, this was not a one time occurance and has forever stained me about some of the players and the design of the game (a better solution would have been to implement 5 person groups. This obfuscates who is doing most of the work and it absorbs a DPS out of the queue pool..win win).

Frankly, that's a people problem, not a meta problem. And a bizarre one ontop paired with an assumption on what the reasoning was.

I got kicked out of dungeons before they started. Others leave before they start. It happens. Move on.

Doesn't change that you can blast through Dungeon Trifectas off-meta, and that meta builds aren't designed for 4 Man in the first place.

No, its a design problem. You can literally design around behavior. A games design can encourage good behavior, or encourage bad behavior. If the design allows people to do bad things, those will happen.

And it does matter if the content is meta or not. As I already said, players who do a ton of DPS often expect others to do the same DPS even if the content does not call for it. So the "Meta" player in the dungeon/vet dungeon who is pulling stupid DPS vs the player who is pulling what is required will still leave the player who is pulling what is required at the end of the vote kick stick.

And "moving on" is not the answer, not when I am doing everything required in game to run content, but I am abused/harassed by other players who are wasting my time.

This is a design problem, not a player problem. The design can not change persons attitude, but it can prohibit their bad behavior.

AtriaKhorist · April 27

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

I do wonder what sort of groups people play in that claim you MUST follow the meta.

I mean, I see it when you're scorepushing Trial Trifectas, but people in here claim it's the case for dungeons.

I do Dungeon Trifectas. I don't have a single meta build, and what's 'meta' for a meticulously planned trial group wouldn't be meta for our far more random 4 mans anyway.

If someone asked you to run a trial meta build for a 4 Man Trifecta, bonk them. If needed, find a better group.

It's not that complex.

I have been vote kicked out of dungeons because I was doing 37% of the DPS and the other DPS felt that they were doing the other 63% (forgetting that the tank and healer are also contributing).

I always say hello, I never speed run unless the group is, I wait for quests and respect other players. So I know its not an "attitude" thing, its a "the other DPS feels like they are doing all the work thing".

To a degree, I get it. I have run dungeons where I was the TANK doing 85% of the overall damage. But I have never vote kicked DPS for not doing their part.

The issue is, this was not a one time occurance and has forever stained me about some of the players and the design of the game (a better solution would have been to implement 5 person groups. This obfuscates who is doing most of the work and it absorbs a DPS out of the queue pool..win win).

Frankly, that's a people problem, not a meta problem. And a bizarre one ontop paired with an assumption on what the reasoning was.

I got kicked out of dungeons before they started. Others leave before they start. It happens. Move on.

Doesn't change that you can blast through Dungeon Trifectas off-meta, and that meta builds aren't designed for 4 Man in the first place.

No, its a design problem. You can literally design around behavior. A games design can encourage good behavior, or encourage bad behavior. If the design allows people to do bad things, those will happen.

And it does matter if the content is meta or not. As I already said, players who do a ton of DPS often expect others to do the same DPS even if the content does not call for it. So the "Meta" player in the dungeon/vet dungeon who is pulling stupid DPS vs the player who is pulling what is required will still leave the player who is pulling what is required at the end of the vote kick stick.

And "moving on" is not the answer, not when I am doing everything required in game to run content, but I am abused/harassed by other players who are wasting my time.

This is a design problem, not a player problem. The design can not change persons attitude, but it can prohibit their bad behavior.

Trial Meta does not apply to Dungeons. Even if said player kicked you due to a perceived lack of DPS - Trial Meta has nothing to do with it. I out-damage trial meta setups with my off meta build more often than not because I build for dungeons.

Yes. It is a people problem. The game doesn't work that way.

And all that is if we presume your assumption about the kick reason is right, which we don't - so I'm sorry, but I'll stop that line of discussion at this point. It's speculative and ignores the points made.

Pixiepumpkin · April 27

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

I do wonder what sort of groups people play in that claim you MUST follow the meta.

I mean, I see it when you're scorepushing Trial Trifectas, but people in here claim it's the case for dungeons.

I do Dungeon Trifectas. I don't have a single meta build, and what's 'meta' for a meticulously planned trial group wouldn't be meta for our far more random 4 mans anyway.

If someone asked you to run a trial meta build for a 4 Man Trifecta, bonk them. If needed, find a better group.

It's not that complex.

I have been vote kicked out of dungeons because I was doing 37% of the DPS and the other DPS felt that they were doing the other 63% (forgetting that the tank and healer are also contributing).

I always say hello, I never speed run unless the group is, I wait for quests and respect other players. So I know its not an "attitude" thing, its a "the other DPS feels like they are doing all the work thing".

To a degree, I get it. I have run dungeons where I was the TANK doing 85% of the overall damage. But I have never vote kicked DPS for not doing their part.

The issue is, this was not a one time occurance and has forever stained me about some of the players and the design of the game (a better solution would have been to implement 5 person groups. This obfuscates who is doing most of the work and it absorbs a DPS out of the queue pool..win win).

Frankly, that's a people problem, not a meta problem. And a bizarre one ontop paired with an assumption on what the reasoning was.

I got kicked out of dungeons before they started. Others leave before they start. It happens. Move on.

Doesn't change that you can blast through Dungeon Trifectas off-meta, and that meta builds aren't designed for 4 Man in the first place.

No, its a design problem. You can literally design around behavior. A games design can encourage good behavior, or encourage bad behavior. If the design allows people to do bad things, those will happen.

And it does matter if the content is meta or not. As I already said, players who do a ton of DPS often expect others to do the same DPS even if the content does not call for it. So the "Meta" player in the dungeon/vet dungeon who is pulling stupid DPS vs the player who is pulling what is required will still leave the player who is pulling what is required at the end of the vote kick stick.

And "moving on" is not the answer, not when I am doing everything required in game to run content, but I am abused/harassed by other players who are wasting my time.

This is a design problem, not a player problem. The design can not change persons attitude, but it can prohibit their bad behavior.

Trial Meta does not apply to Dungeons. Even if said player kicked you due to a perceived lack of DPS - Trial Meta has nothing to do with it. I out-damage trial meta setups with my off meta build more often than not because I build for dungeons.

The conversation in context has nothing to do with trials and everything to do with sub-classing and how it will allow for stronger builds (proven on PTS at this very moment). Anything that allows for stronger/faster DPS will become "meta".

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

Yes. It is a people problem. The game doesn't work that way.

And good design can work around that.

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

And all that is if we presume your assumption about the kick reason is right, which we don't - so I'm sorry, but I'll stop that line of discussion at this point. It's speculative and ignores the points made.

Your points made were out of context of this thread, so moot points.

The fact is, sub-classing as it is being designed, introduces a greater gap between people who do not chase the "meta" and those who do. Or rather, lets leave "meta" out of the conversation because it means different things to different people.

Lets say it this way.

The fact is, sub-classing as it is being desinged, introduces a greater gap between people who do not chase high DPS builds, and those who do.

There are already issues in game with players not being invited to content because their build does not chase high DPS, because they prefer their "class fantasy" role. Sub-classing, as proven on the PTS, increases this divide.

We should be working towards shriking these issues, not creating a wider gap. In my professional opinion, this is a bad design

Daoin · April 27

said no one ever wrote: »

I don't scry or scribe or play tales of tribute or use arcanist or necromancer and when these things that don't interest me were added and I mentioned that that was so I was told I didn't have to play them. Yeah sure I don't have to play them but they added no value to the game for me. Meanwhile they added value to the game for others. Subclassing looks like it might actually add value to the game for me and I might consider playing an arcanist if I can do away with their assanine intrusive healing skills and replace it with something useful and not breaking my 1st person view gameplay and everyone on the forums is mostly having a melt down over what? If you don't like it or if it doesn't interest you then you dont have to play it. Choice is a wonderful thing after all and you are free to not play it just as I am free to not play all the things that don't interest me.

then you would be an arcanist people could be hoping (have hoped) you pop out a domain not a jesus beam like you were some kind of templar in disguise. infact its not even safe to say you would actually be an arcanist anymore but would be some form of subclass with no name yet. subclassing is nothing short of a cheat mode and on top of that a way around having to address balancing for eso's more fragile players that wanted thier old full class looked at not strangled i am a very fragile player, enough to know when something has truly been broken. is anyone seriously thinking even for a bit of extra power classes cant be buffed around the board without pinching other classes skills. so since upcoming harder content and power creep needed can be wiped off the excuse list whats left ? cheat mode. will i play in the new cheat mode ? yes, because i said i would do things before i knew about the update. will i create cheating hybrid ? probably, if the groups i joined need me to. will i habridize my existing 9 chars ? no, and sure this probably means in the state of todays eso and how it will become that i likely wont play them either but to be honest the hybrid wont be getting much air time either

RealLoveBVB · April 27

Orbital78 wrote: »

It doesn't matter at this point. Don't fight it, just let it happen and enjoy it.

That is the worst attitude to life you can have.
So you are a paying customer and are not happy with a change (in general, not related to eso), then instead of shouting critics you just eat it and keep opening your purse?

I don't know where you learned that, but here the "customers are kings". Companies are dependent from their customers, as they are the ones who keep them alive.

You should rethink your "eat it or die"- mentality.

sans-culottes · April 27

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

It doesn't matter at this point. Don't fight it, just let it happen and enjoy it.

That is the worst attitude to life you can have.
So you are a paying customer and are not happy with a change (in general, not related to eso), then instead of shouting critics you just eat it and keep opening your purse?

I don't know where you learned that, but here the "customers are kings". Companies are dependent from their customers, as they are the ones who keep them alive.

You should rethink your "eat it or die"- mentality.

💯

licenturion · April 27

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

It doesn't matter at this point. Don't fight it, just let it happen and enjoy it.

That is the worst attitude to life you can have.
So you are a paying customer and are not happy with a change (in general, not related to eso), then instead of shouting critics you just eat it and keep opening your purse?

I don't know where you learned that, but here the "customers are kings". Companies are dependent from their customers, as they are the ones who keep them alive.

You should rethink your "eat it or die"- mentality.

' attitude to life'. Come on...This is just a game. Not some philosophical or ethical life changing choice. A lot of people switch supermarkets all the time. It is not that deep.

It is not because I bought a LIVE SERVICE game that the developers should cater to my own personal whishes until the end of days.

U bought into a live service and you can continue to play or pay as long as you like the service provided. And if you don't like it anymore vote with your wallet. If enough people do things will change. If the new things attract a lot of new players, nothing will change.

Live service games change all the time. I play also a lot of Overwatch since release. That game changed completely through the years from mode to F2P business model and some of my favorite heroes changed may times. But I still play it. Same goes for other games. You either stay on the train or step off on the next station. But you can't change the tracks when the destination has been set by the train company.

Koshka · April 27

licenturion wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

i strongly doubt anyone believes casual eso players asked for a cheating way to borrow skill lines from other classes to get jobs done

It doesn't matter at this point. Don't fight it, just let it happen and enjoy it.

This sounds really... wrong.

It does not.

The system will come to the base game on June 2. Scribing will also come that day to the basegame. These are facts and people (even the ones posting here) know it deep down.

The only things you can do at this point is:
- helping to test on PTS and experiment and find/point out overperforming or underperforming combinations
- ignore the system if you are not interested in it
- leave now without even experiencing how the final version plays on live

But 'I will quit if you do this' posts is totally pointless, will change nothing and even against forum rules.

A company that wants to sell a product should not just brush off complaints. In reality it is not "adapt or die", ESO is not the only game on the market. The fact that this system caused so much stir in the community already means that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, not just brushed under the carpet. Whenever something like that happened in the past, it always caused long-lasting negative consequences (Morrowind nerfs, U35, etc). This is why people are voicing their concerns. Posting test results is nice, but we've seen this kind of feedback ignored time and time again.
Also, "just ignoring" an extremely powerful system is simply not feasible. All new content will be balanced around the new power level, and unless you are exclusively interested in collecting flowers and pickpocketing npcs, it is going to affect you. I'd say that more casual players would be affected the most since endgamers are already used to switching classes.

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

Doesn't change that you can blast through Dungeon Trifectas off-meta, and that meta builds aren't designed for 4 Man in the first place.

"Meta" simply means "most effective tactic available". Of course it will differ in different contexts.
Even in trials people usually switch setups depending on the situation (trash, aoe boss fight, etc).

sans-culottes · April 27

licenturion wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

It doesn't matter at this point. Don't fight it, just let it happen and enjoy it.

That is the worst attitude to life you can have.
So you are a paying customer and are not happy with a change (in general, not related to eso), then instead of shouting critics you just eat it and keep opening your purse?

I don't know where you learned that, but here the "customers are kings". Companies are dependent from their customers, as they are the ones who keep them alive.

You should rethink your "eat it or die"- mentality.

' attitude to life'. Come on...This is just a game. Not some philosophical or ethical life changing choice. A lot of people switch supermarkets all the time. It is not that deep.

It is not because I bought a LIVE SERVICE game that the developers should cater to my own personal whishes until the end of days.

U bought into a live service and you can continue to play or pay as long as you like the service provided. And if you don't like it anymore vote with your wallet. If enough people do things will change. If the new things attract a lot of new players, nothing will change.

Live service games change all the time. I play also a lot of Overwatch since release. That game changed completely through the years and some of it's heroes changed may times. But I still play it. Same goes for other games. You either stay on the train or step off on the next station. But you can't change the tracks when the destination has been set by the train company.

It’s interesting you compare live service games to boarding a train whose destination has already been set.

But in that metaphor, you are not just a passive passenger. You are the one buying the ticket, funding the route, and filling the seats that justify the train’s existence.

To say “you can’t change the tracks” forgets that without riders’ investment, there would be no train at all.

Critique is not childish pampering. It is the basic expression of the player’s role in shaping a shared service.

Accepting everything without objection is not resilience. It is learned helplessness, mistakenly called pragmatism.

Daoin · April 27

licenturion wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

It doesn't matter at this point. Don't fight it, just let it happen and enjoy it.

That is the worst attitude to life you can have.
So you are a paying customer and are not happy with a change (in general, not related to eso), then instead of shouting critics you just eat it and keep opening your purse?

I don't know where you learned that, but here the "customers are kings". Companies are dependent from their customers, as they are the ones who keep them alive.

You should rethink your "eat it or die"- mentality.

' attitude to life'. Come on...This is just a game. Not some philosophical or ethical life changing choice. A lot of people switch supermarkets all the time. It is not that deep.

It is not because I bought a LIVE SERVICE game that the developers should cater to my own personal whishes until the end of days.

U bought into a live service and you can continue to play or pay as long as you like the service provided. And if you don't like it anymore vote with your wallet. If enough people do things will change. If the new things attract a lot of new players, nothing will change.

Live service games change all the time. I play also a lot of Overwatch since release. That game changed completely through the years and some of it's heroes changed may times. But I still play it. Same goes for other games. You either stay on the train or step off on the next station. But you can't change the tracks when the destination has been set by the train company.

i personally always kept my sub and bought my own crowns because in my own little way even though i dont really need it i though it helped development to not just buy other peoples crowns when i wanted something. for the future. even when i knew i was not going to play for weeks on end i kept my monthly subs going. i bought into nothing except my classes and the lie. not one person in eso can stand up and ever say they know i bought crowns from another player. none. yet i spent a ton of crowns on my chars working around thier classes and races. and in return all i did was help to bulldoze them all down and now maint mode, bench 8 of the 9 f my ther chars to save thier image and other stuff and go into maint mode with one and maybe have to design a hybrid for new one as to not help drive more players away

Koshka · April 27

Orbital78 wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

You should rethink your "eat it or die"- mentality.

[snip]

But you can play a 2 bar heavy attack build already. Just need to cast any mages guild ability every so often for Empower.
It will actually do better damage than the typical Oaken build from what I've seen.

[edited to remove quote]

licenturion · April 27

sans-culottes wrote: »

To say “you can’t change the tracks” forgets that without riders’ investment, there would be no train at all.

There would be no train at all if you think that everybody thinks and acts exactly the same as you.

Sure you can take the car if you like, but it will not prevent new other people to hop on the train because they like the new destination.

Anyway there i nothing new I can add this this thread from here on. The only point I was trying to make originally in this thread was that complaining for an exciting feature to cancelled forever right before release is pointless and people are better off with actual testing and reporting problems instead of emotional essays that they and their whole family will quit forever if ZOS doesn't fill in their demands.

Just like AWA, U35 and all the other things, this thing has been announced and worked on for more than a year. This will launch next month and nothing will change that. I, and many others, are very excited for it so in the end this is a win for people as well. Every coin has two sides. Some hate it, other will love it. Peace out.

Orbital78 · April 27

Koshka wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

You should rethink your "eat it or die"- mentality.

[snip]

But you can play a 2 bar heavy attack build already. Just need to cast any mages guild ability every so often for Empower.
It will actually do better damage than the typical Oaken build from what I've seen.

Yes I know this, but 10 seconds uptime is pretty horrible for me. Hence why I had hoped scribing would have had 20+ seconds. But with subclassing that will fix everything.

[edited to remove quote]

sans-culottes · April 27

licenturion wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

To say “you can’t change the tracks” forgets that without riders’ investment, there would be no train at all.

There would be no train at all if you think that everybody thinks and acts exactly the same as you.

Sure you can take the car if you like, but it will not prevent new other people to hop on the train because they like the new destination.

Anyway there i nothing new I can add this this thread from here on. The only point I was trying to make originally in this thread was that complaining for an exciting feature to cancelled forever right before release is pointless and people are better off with actual testing and reporting problems instead of emotional essays that they and their whole family will quit forever if ZOS doesn't fill in their demands.

Just like AWA, U35 and all the other things, this thing has been announced and worked on for more than a year. This will launch next month and nothing will change that. I, and many others, are very excited for it so in the end this is a win for people as well. Every coin has two sides. Some hate it, other will love it. Peace out.

It is strange to see you frame disagreement as selfishness but excitement as universal.

Some players raise concerns because they care enough to engage the development of the game as a shared project, not as a one-way delivery service.

Yet each time players voice dissatisfaction, you reduce them to caricatures of “emotional essays” and “demands,” while presenting your own preferences as simple “excitement” and “wins.”

In that framing, dissent is emotional indulgence, but agreement is mature realism.

If you believe “every coin has two sides,” then it follows that critique is not an obstacle to the game’s future, but one side of the very coin you claim to respect.

Thank you for the reminder that it is precisely because others stay aboard the train that some of us still think the tracks are worth debating.

Daoin · April 27

licenturion wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

To say “you can’t change the tracks” forgets that without riders’ investment, there would be no train at all.

There would be no train at all if you think that everybody thinks and acts exactly the same as you.

Sure you can take the car if you like, but it will not prevent new other people to hop on the train because they like the new destination.

Anyway there i nothing new I can add this this thread from here on. The only point I was trying to make originally in this thread was that complaining for an exciting feature to cancelled forever right before release is pointless and people are better off with actual testing and reporting problems instead of emotional essays that they and their whole family will quit forever if ZOS doesn't fill in their demands.

Just like AWA, U35 and all the other things, this thing has been announced and worked on for more than a year. This will launch next month and nothing will change that. I, and many others, are very excited for it so in the end this is a win for people as well. Every coin has two sides. Some hate it, other will love it. Peace out.

the post had nothing whatsoever to do with asking for it to be cancelled, people just tried to keep swaying things up and down from time to time in true forum fashion to make subcassing look good on it with no foundation to anything they were saying, people left again, people will leave again . i wont be happy again like before playing eso and definately wont feel right about paying to play or what i eventually helped to pay for and thats where the buck stops. some people posted remind me 90% of time spent was a blast so to chill then the thread gets sent back to square one

Koshka · April 27

Orbital78 wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

You should rethink your "eat it or die"- mentality.

[snip]

But you can play a 2 bar heavy attack build already. Just need to cast any mages guild ability every so often for Empower.
It will actually do better damage than the typical Oaken build from what I've seen.

Yes I know this, but 10 seconds uptime is pretty horrible for me. Hence why I had hoped scribing would have had 20+ seconds. But with subclassing that will fix everything.

It will not "fix everything" because your dps build does not exist in vacuum. Therefore, the 130k that HA builds are pushing on PTS will just be the new 90k and you won't suddenly be OP.
ZOS is balancing content around the current dps ceiling. Therefore, if the ceiling goes up drastically, the new content will be less accessible for those who choose to ignore the new system or pick more niche combinations. This is what we are arguing against. ESO already has a huge dps gap between optimal and less optimal builds, there is no good reason to make this gap even wider.
An alternative would be them nerfing everything to the point that every skill line is the same thing with different visuals, but as you can imagine, that's also not great.

[edited to remove quote]