PTS Update 46 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

Ragnarok0130 · April 15

ADarklore wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

Wrong. Ruining current classes to be able to add skill lines from another class is vastly different than the class change tokens we've heard people asking for. Class change tokens would be much more welcome than ruining sorc tanking etc.

ADarklore wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

The sorcerer changes are wretched.

If they can't make subclassing work without ruining classes, why are they doing this? I've never heard anyone ask for subclassing; scribing is much more fun.

People have been asking for this for YEARS. Not directly by calling it 'subclassing'... but class change tokens especially are highly requested. IMO, subclassing is much better than a class change token because this allows us to change ANY TIME. Does it need some work and adjustments, sure... I mean it's only been on PTS not even a day... this is what feedback is for. But in the end, I think it could very well save the game by bringing back players and bringing in new players who don't want to be locked into a single class or be forced to run alts just to have some variety.

So you're saying that because you and a small minority of Sorc tanks have a problem, that the majority should suffer by not getting new content? And no, class change tokens would NOT be more welcome, it would just be a continuation of the same stale game that's driven many players to leave. Subclassing will bring more players back because it offers more options, and in the long term health of the game, that's a good thing.

This is giving me real U35 vibes where we warned the devs it would result in chaos and failure and we were not only ignored but met with dismissal from the combat team. I’m with SaintJohnHM, we’ve asked for class change tokens for years not the destruction of classes. In fact a strong theme on the forums for years was for stronger class identity not the destruction of classes to be an online Skyrim with friends for the role players. Disclosure I’m not a tank nor a Sorc main.

DaisyRay · April 15

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for current class balance and abilities. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Please keep in mind that many of the updates related to classes and abilities are with Subclassing as a focal point this update.

I'm okay with hardened ward losing the heal but could you please put daedric curse on another skill line so I still have access to it when I remove daedric summoning?

Also, could you make dark conversion an instant heal? My goodness and please make it so people cannot bash me while I'm trying to heal. What is that? No one else has a heal (that I know of) that can be bashed. It's going to make life really hard if I don't have my shield, my shield's heal, and a bashable dark conversion. I know there are other heals, but dark conversion gives me health, magic, and damage buff.

Please keep bound aegis as it is, it's one of the few protections sorcs even have left.

I honestly just wish you left everything as it was and just removed the heal on the shield. Then made dark conversion an instant heal, but I know you won't do that. I knew we would get a heavy hand nerf, even when people were saying "Oh they've been good about it in the past." You just can't help yourselves. There is no such thing as balance in this game, so please stop trying to make it balanced. All you're doing is ruining classes for everyone, not just sorcs. I'm glad I bought some crowns, I'll probably just have to play another class at this point.

DaisyRay · April 15

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

The sorcerer changes are wretched.

If they can't make subclassing work without ruining classes, why are they doing this? I've never heard anyone ask for subclassing; scribing is much more fun.

Agreed. All I ever wanted was class change tokens. I would pay crown or gold to change my class whenever I wanted. I don't really care or need subclasses.

R3animate · April 15

Do we report animation issues here? I can't figure out which specific thread.

The two handed light attack animation has a bit to much "wind" and leaves a very visible diagonal line after the swing, it looks silly.

The two handed cleave animation currently drops the handle of the weapon OUTSIDE of the hand whilst swinging.

PrinceShroob · April 15

It's not just "use a different skill line." It's "grind out an entirely new skill line that'll eat twice as much experience and skill points because your fully-leveled Dragonknight or Necromancer don't mean beans." If you don't like pets, you pay a premium to get back to where you were a month ago.

Are the developers truly prepared for the level of "just sink hours into farming skill points and experience"? For the new minimum parse to be 150k when overland is trivialized with 15k and the majority of players can't hit that?

Arcanist--as a singular package--was a great leveler and revitalized endgame by giving players an easy-to-play class with an automatic niche with easy-to-acquire gear after Update 35 significantly dropped the power of other classes. Will those players stay when Arcanist now requires fully leveling a Templar and a Necromancer (a DLC class) and 80 skill points and millions of experience points?

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · April 15

The subclassing is looking great, and I am beyond thrilled to have it go live. It's infinitely better than a class change token, and theory crafters such as myself are going to have so much fun with the system. I expected far heavier nerfs to individual classes, so I'm pleased to see they overall still retain good usefulness even outside subclassing options. That being said, I do feel sorcerer could use more love, especially the no pet sorcerers. More bonus to lightning damage would also be most welcome.

CalamityCat · April 15

Most classes I'm okay with the changes, the DK and warden changes don't seem especially nice but my NBs look okay and finally losing that grim focus glow will be fantastic. Really don't think the arcanist need that extra damage on the beam but the target limit might balance it a little. I guess we'll know if update 46 goes live and the game turns into Star Wars

But then we get to the sorc changes. I knew my sorc would likely get hit by the nerf stick, but I didn't expect "pets or GTFO". Sorc pets are as ugly as an ugly thing. I don't want to be annoying either myself or other players with the flapping monstrosity whenever I go out. So IMHO non-pet sorcs need to be just as viable as pet sorcs, so sorc players can fulfil different roles without having to double bar pets they don't want to have in play.

Suggesting that we just swap out a skill line is horrible. I had no plans to sub class my sorc and I don't want to be pushed towards that. Sub classing should be a choice, not what we're expected to do as default. I'd rather have more sensible balancing changes for PvP/PvE and have the choice of using the summoning line skills without pets.

It's strange me hating these changes, because I'm literally that player who always wants fighting pets in games. But while I enjoy having the option of fighting pets, I don't actually want to have a zoo just so I can use those skills and keep the atronach ulti. I want to choose what pets I use and not annoy others with them.

P.S. if we're going to have this new wave of zoo builds, can I please ask that we auto-unsummon them all when players come into town?

CameraBeardThePirate · April 15

Here's some skill lines on each class that, from a PvP perspective, will likely see little to no use because of their low power. Note that some of these skill lines are simply the weakest for that class, and might still see use here and there.

Nightblade
Shadow:
Unless you want invis or fear, or are doing some health stacking shenanigans, this tree is pretty lackluster compared to what the other 2 nightblade lines give you. Assassination is undoubtedly the best line in the game, and Siphoning has some of the best healing, sustain, and a fantastic ultimate. Shadow is therefore sort of left behind. I don't think it necessarily needs a buff, but maybe some slight passive tweaks?

Dragonknight
Earthen Heart:
This skill line has 2 solid abilities (Corrosive and Fossilize) but otherwise is really lackluster. The passives aren't great now that Battle Roar has been nerfed, and with the stealth-nerf to Reduce Cost jewelry enchants, Ash Cloud is pretty unappealing now. The biggest offender of this line is of course Poop Rocks (aka Stone Fist). Seriously, buff this skill.

Templar
Dawn's Wrath:
For PvE this skill line will see tons of use still, but with the nerf to Jesus Beam for PvP, this is the line that will likely get swapped out the most. This line isn't bad, but like Nightblade's Shadow tree, Dawn's Wrath is pretty outclassed by the other two Templar trees. Not sure if too much can be done here to be honest - maybe a slight buff to POTL/Purifying Light?

Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning:
This is *probably* going to be the least used tree in Sorc's kit, but it's close with Dark Magic. With Daedric Summoning, you're either picking it for Curse and Shield or you're not picking it up at all. Please consider allowing Daedric Prey to work with other pets at a reduced magnitude, because it feels a tad upsetting that "The Pet Skill Tree" doesn't actually give you any cool skills for other pets.

Warden
Green Balance:
Green Balance has always been a little lackluster in PvP. It has great passives, but most of Warden's healing in PvP comes from Polar, so Wardens can comfortably drop this tree to grab more damage, better utility, or a better healing tree like Restoring Light, Siphoning, or Living Death. The only thing you're really losing out on by dropping this tree is Minor Toughness. A slight buff to some of the abilities here could help things, but it's in a bit of a weird situation where this tree isn't terrible, just not as strong as the other two in a PvP context.

Necromancer
Bone Tyrant:
Not much to say here really. This tree is pretty awful in PvP unless you're specifically leveraging the Goliath ultimate. The only other really good PvP skill here is Necrotic Potency/Deaden Pain, and that skill took an indirect nerf this patch with the limit on corpses/pets and the reduced corpse duration. Grave Grasp is utter garbage (seriously, have any of the devs even tried to hit actual players with this thing?), Bone Totem is essentially free CC immunity for the enemy, and Necro's armor buff is outclassed by most of the other armor buffs in the game even after it received Minor Resolve. The only other saving grace this tree has is some decent passives, and I'm not sure that saves it from the chopping block.

Arcanist
Curative Runeforms:
This tree is pretty bad for PvP. The ultimate is middling at best, requiring you to stay in one area for a slight boost to damage and just-okay healing. Runemend feels very ineffective compared to other burst heals, and most Arcanists in PvP simply replace it with Healing Soul+class script+major mending (because why wouldn't you?). The beam heal is powerful in raw output, but falls short in actual combat because of the awkward range and limited mobility. Chakrams can be very strong, but require you to scale your max mag. Why do this if you can just scale health and get even stronger shields from Scribing? Arcanists Domain is very buggy, sometimes not giving its buff if cast on uneven terrain, and the Portals are unfun to use because of various casting issues, the cooldown, and strict requirement of flat terrain.

ceruulean · April 15

I think templar's Radiant Destruction should go back to 1.8 second cast time. Unlike arcanist where they naturally get a break to build up Crux before beaming , templar PvE players have to keep up PoTL, Solar Barrage, and now use Flawless Dawnbreaker or Incap Strike to buff their execute, and the long cast time messes up the tempo.

Also nobody in PvP is going to seriously cast for the total 4.8 seconds because it leaves you vulnerable to interrupt

ForumBully · April 15

ceruulean wrote: »

Also nobody in PvP is going to seriously cast for the total 4.8 seconds because it leaves you vulnerable to interrupt

Oh sure they will. Everyone standing on a keep wall will. Everyone running in a zerg will. That's 90% of PvP having the time of their lives

ceruulean · April 15

ForumBully wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Also nobody in PvP is going to seriously cast for the total 4.8 seconds because it leaves you vulnerable to interrupt

Oh sure they will. Everyone standing on a keep wall will. Everyone running in a zerg will. That's 90% of PvP having the time of their lives

Ok well those types of players do 0 damage and die in 2 seconds because they let their buffs drop off. And beam is roll dodgable, everyone will have streak/cloak to break line of sight. The point is?

sarahthes · April 15

The amount of ulti gen on supports looks to be downright disgusting with being able to pull in ult gen passives from multiple classes.

Today we are experimenting with a healer using horn while on pillager cooldown and seeing if they get back a full or nearly full pillager when the cooldown is up. I feel certain we will be able to.

ForumBully · April 15

ceruulean wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Also nobody in PvP is going to seriously cast for the total 4.8 seconds because it leaves you vulnerable to interrupt

Oh sure they will. Everyone standing on a keep wall will. Everyone running in a zerg will. That's 90% of PvP having the time of their lives

Ok well those types of players do 0 damage and die in 2 seconds because they let their buffs drop off. And beam is roll dodgable, everyone will have streak/cloak to break line of sight. The point is?

The point is that that's the player ZoS wants to please.

sweatapodimas · April 15

Dear Devs and pvpers and meta-players,

Taking away pen from nb skill line is yet another nerf, the crit chance boost is useless. Why nerf this again, more like Vanilla Assassin passive. Next theyre gonna take away 10% crit damage and nb becomes the butler.

Case in Point: 400 ms incap delay, 10% damage after leaving stealth (old), 10% major berserk, nerfed stealth, concealed passive nerf, fear everywhere now, and RIDICULOUS detect pot range lol.

How about nb just be a summon for sorcs, and necros :P .

Losing our identity because ppl hate getting ganked, pay attention, drink your carry pot, use your carry sets (rallying), and carry CP

.

Love and kisses,

Sweati

AdmiralDigby · April 15

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for current class balance and abilities. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Please keep in mind that many of the updates related to classes and abilities are with Subclassing as a focal point this update.

The actual changes are mostly good (actually the best balance changes we have seen in a long time). It's just a shame subclassing will ruin it.

The plar beam nerf is too much. Mainly the increased duration makes it harder to keep up POTL and other dots. 3 sec beam would be great.

sweatapodimas · April 15

ceruulean wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Also nobody in PvP is going to seriously cast for the total 4.8 seconds because it leaves you vulnerable to interrupt

Oh sure they will. Everyone standing on a keep wall will. Everyone running in a zerg will. That's 90% of PvP having the time of their lives

Ok well those types of players do 0 damage and die in 2 seconds because they let their buffs drop off. And beam is roll dodgable, everyone will have streak/cloak to break line of sight. The point is?

Yep, cloak will get nerfed again lol, it will be functionally abused.

BretonMage · April 15

PrinceShroob wrote: »

And that's not even getting into attempting to massacre Hardened Ward. Regenerative Ward actually does heal without a pet, so the patch notes are completely wrong--but it's still at half the strength of on live.

Yeah. I've been happily using Regenerative Ward for ages, and I'm really disappointed that they're halving the healing from it. I thought the issue was with Hardened Ward, not Regenerative?

Also, those of us who won't be subclassing shouldn't be punished for the sake of balancing others' subclasses. I'm not really happy with this.

master_vanargand · April 15

It would be better to stop using "Increases your X by Y for each Z ability slotted." passive skill.
This is not static at all. The effect should be get even when switching weapons.
Need is "While slotted on either bar.", need this real.
Losing health every time you swap weapons in Nightblade is extremely frustrating.

Ezhh · April 15

After testing plar in trial I can only say the change to beam means I'll be abandoning the class if this goes live.

I just can't feel engaged in gameplay where I have to press one skill roughly every 5 seconds. Plar had a nice variation and pace to the gameplay, with fast skills up until execute and then a slightly slower pace. It felt good, but moving to 4.8 secs per skill saps the fun for me. I'm no longer engaged by the gameplay. If I'd wanted this, I'd have been playing arcanist already.

I guess now everyone will effectively play arcanist though if they want to engage in mid to end game content and be effective. Though it's also looking like class mastery will mean actual arcanists still have the advantage and will be more desired than other classes will, even once they have arc beam added in.

Class imbalance feels worse than ever, unless you like beaming.

Alpheu5 · April 15

ADarklore wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

Wrong. Ruining current classes to be able to add skill lines from another class is vastly different than the class change tokens we've heard people asking for. Class change tokens would be much more welcome than ruining sorc tanking etc.

ADarklore wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

The sorcerer changes are wretched.

If they can't make subclassing work without ruining classes, why are they doing this? I've never heard anyone ask for subclassing; scribing is much more fun.

People have been asking for this for YEARS. Not directly by calling it 'subclassing'... but class change tokens especially are highly requested. IMO, subclassing is much better than a class change token because this allows us to change ANY TIME. Does it need some work and adjustments, sure... I mean it's only been on PTS not even a day... this is what feedback is for. But in the end, I think it could very well save the game by bringing back players and bringing in new players who don't want to be locked into a single class or be forced to run alts just to have some variety.

So you're saying that because you and a small minority of Sorc tanks have a problem, that the majority should suffer by not getting new content? And no, class change tokens would NOT be more welcome, it would just be a continuation of the same stale game that's driven many players to leave. Subclassing will bring more players back because it offers more options, and in the long term health of the game, that's a good thing.

They could have gone ahead with subclassing without taking a "my way or the highway" approach to the Daedric Summoning skill line. Pets and their associated passives have always been underwhelming for skills that require 2 slots to use, have a cast time to activate, and can be killed at any time. Sorcs have remained somewhat relevant in spite of pets, not because of them. If they're going to shoehorn us into using pets, they need to increase their power to make up for the offset.

The reason a burst heal being added to ward was such a big deal to sorc tanks was because 1) they were likely already using it in addition to Clannfear, which meant 2) they could finally replace the Clannfear with 2 utility skills they previously didn't have the space for that other classes could easily fit on their bars.

Undoing that change and going "If you don't want to use pets, use a different skill line" in a dev note is completely tone deaf and ignores the use cases of the other 8 skills. It reeks of defeat. "We couldn't balance pet and non-pet sorcs, so either use pets or play with a different class's skills."

I also want to point out the hilarity of people defending locking IA motifs to specific classes because it helped "preserve class identity", and now this whole patch happens a year later. A sorc wearing a nightblade crest? Ridiculous! A bone goliath shrouded in lightning while shooting a beam from a book? Perfectly legal.

lPeacekeeperl · April 15

There is so many from sorks, let me add some
But from not sork perspective

Conjured Ward - Still strongest shield in game both in % from mana|hp and in scaling at the same time from mana or HP in both morphs, no other class have anything alike, and obligation to have a pet for heal from shield... do you understand how overpowered this thing was? Shield and heal in one skill.
You know that this game has not only resource economy, you also have to fit no more than 10(5) skill on panels, and 2 in 1 is really powerful

What next, will we finally see some streak fix? like, not combining damage, mobility and control in one skill?

I understand this level of frustration from the sork community "The higher you climb, the harder you fall."
But you guys have to look not only on your own changes, but on the context - on changes in other classes, on condition of other classes for years now.

In finally the thing about sork tanking - you have now lot options to choose from Earthen heart, Winter embrace, Soldier of Apocrypha. Or you consider them to be subpar to your Conjured Ward? If so - balancing just done right

JayKwellen · April 15

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Here's some skill lines on each class that, from a PvP perspective, will likely see little to no use because of their low power. Note that some of these skill lines are simply the weakest for that class, and might still see use here and there.

Nightblade
Shadow:
Unless you want invis or fear, or are doing some health stacking shenanigans, this tree is pretty lackluster compared to what the other 2 nightblade lines give you. Assassination is undoubtedly the best line in the game, and Siphoning has some of the best healing, sustain, and a fantastic ultimate. Shadow is therefore sort of left behind. I don't think it necessarily needs a buff, but maybe some slight passive tweaks?

This is the only one I disagree with. For anyone who plays solo or small-scale, the shadow tree is potentially one of the best trees as it gives you access to the best survivability/kiting ability in the game - shade.

Anyone who plays solo/small/1vX can slot shade (and drop their armor buff, since it's a passive) and instantly become near unkillable if used properly. Just imagine chasing that warden/DK/whatever around a tower while they build ult to burn you - now imagine that they can shade too. You'll never catch them, never kill them, and never stop them. And they'll be able to build out more damage now too, since you don't need to be quite so tanky when you can LoS on demand.

Few players know how to use it well, but those who do are going to become a complete menace.

SaintJohnHM · April 15

lPeacekeeperl wrote: »

In finally the thing about sork tanking - you have now lot options to choose from Earthen heart, Winter embrace, Soldier of Apocrypha. Or you consider them to be subpar to your Conjured Ward? If so - balancing just done right

Wrong. We shouldn't have to choose a different class skill line to get shield/heal. I used to tank when the clannfear was the go-to heal, it was a waste of two skill slots. They're asking for our feedback, and we're telling them these changes are less fun than what they're planning. We shouldn't have classes gutted for the sake of subclassing.

Alpheu5 · April 15

lPeacekeeperl wrote: »

There is so many from sorks, let me add some
But from not sork perspective

Conjured Ward - Still strongest shield in game both in % from mana|hp and in scaling at the same time from mana or HP in both morphs, no other class have anything alike, and obligation to have a pet for heal from shield... do you understand how overpowered this thing was? Shield and heal in one skill.
You know that this game has not only resource economy, you also have to fit no more than 10(5) skill on panels, and 2 in 1 is really powerful

What next, will we finally see some streak fix? like, not combining damage, mobility and control in one skill?

I understand this level of frustration from the sork community "The higher you climb, the harder you fall."
But you guys have to look not only on your own changes, but on the context - on changes in other classes, on condition of other classes for years now.

In finally the thing about sork tanking - you have now lot options to choose from Earthen heart, Winter embrace, Soldier of Apocrypha. Or you consider them to be subpar to your Conjured Ward? If so - balancing just done right

I'd argue that 2 in 1 is the bare minimum standard for morphed skills in the game these days. Off the top of my head:

Arcanists have a skill that does damage and puts a ward on them. They have a skill that gives Major Sorcery and Brutality just for slotting. They have an armor buff that gives a minor buff and consumes the minor buff to heal.

Wardens have an AoE heal that provide resource regen. They have a (free) regen boost with a passive purge attached. They have a skill that gives speed and damage. They have a projectile ward that stuns attackers.

DKs have an AoE snare that heals. They have a stun that turns into a root when the stun ends. They have a heal that gives them crit while it's active.

NBs have an AoE heal that gives Major Expedition. They have a HoT that doubles as an armor skill due to passives and gives Major Protection. They have an ability that passively restores resources by slotting it and more when activated.

Necros have an armor skill that pulls ranged enemies in. They have an AoE that gives 3 different debuffs depending on which one hits the enemy. They have an AoE fear that gives Minor (?) Maim and give allies Minor Protection. They have a heal that also generates ultimate.

Templars... I haven't paid attention to in a long time so I can't say anything about them with any certainty.

I don't think a ward also having a heal is a game-breaking combo.

And again, swapping out the entire skill line to make up for a loss in one ability ignores the use-cases of the rest of the skill line that still has use in sorc tanking, namely the atro and aegis. That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

DaisyRay · April 15

lPeacekeeperl wrote: »

There is so many from sorks, let me add some
But from not sork perspective

Conjured Ward - Still strongest shield in game both in % from mana|hp and in scaling at the same time from mana or HP in both morphs, no other class have anything alike, and obligation to have a pet for heal from shield... do you understand how overpowered this thing was? Shield and heal in one skill.
You know that this game has not only resource economy, you also have to fit no more than 10(5) skill on panels, and 2 in 1 is really powerful

What next, will we finally see some streak fix? like, not combining damage, mobility and control in one skill?

I understand this level of frustration from the sork community "The higher you climb, the harder you fall."
But you guys have to look not only on your own changes, but on the context - on changes in other classes, on condition of other classes for years now.

In finally the thing about sork tanking - you have now lot options to choose from Earthen heart, Winter embrace, Soldier of Apocrypha. Or you consider them to be subpar to your Conjured Ward? If so - balancing just done right

Why should we have to change or compromise our skills/build for others to feel okay in a game we pay for? I'm so glad I didn't buy that season pass yet. I know my little $50 won't hurt them in the slightest, but I'm content not giving money to a game who's going to force my hand in how I play.

1. Every class will have access to the sorc shield now, so the argument about no other class having anything like it is null.
2. I do agree that the heal isn't needed on the shield, but to take the heal off and not fix the problems with the other heals in sorc is wild.

- The pet bird dies often so she is not reliable in pvp nor does the damage of either pet make a dent against anyone.
- Dark conversion is not instant and can be bashed, which means if you're like me and utilizes that skill in game, you will be out of a heal all together when facing players who know what they're doing.

3. Streak doesn't do nearly as much damage as you think it does. I don't know anyone in pve or pvp who uses streak for the damage it has. Now if you had mentioned the stun, sure. Like I said previously I don't really care if they take the stun off.

*But I agree with the previous poster about the 2 in 1.*

So for the devs themselves to say use pets or change your skill line is indeed a slap in the face to people who have stayed sorc main even after all the previous nerfs and before the last buff. It's wild that you can even repeat that.

Arthtur · April 15

So... in which world 60% nerf to a sustain passive seems fine? Because thats insane. All those sustain nerfs make DK dead for solo content. You just arent sustaining those expensive skills. Small damage buff wont make it up at all.

Like currently you get on average 250 stamina and magicka per second from combustion. After nerfs it drops to around 100....
If u removed CD on that, it would be fine. But with the CD? Thats a good joke.
Battle Roar drops from 50 per ultimate to 37. Thats 25% nerf. Where all the problems with this passives come from... Pillager. Which basically doubles your ultimate regen in trials. And minor heroism potions that are rly expensive... In solo play you have nothing that makes this passive broken.
Change to flat cost reduction jewelry enchants? A nail in the coffin. Even if it makes sense, that was one of things that made sustain on DK okay.

On live i have good sustain. Just good. I run out of magicka in prolonged combat but its fine. But if those changes go live?
Unplayable. Literally. Even wearing 5p sustain set wont make up for all those nerfs. And im not kidding. Wretched Vitality isnt strong enough to make up for those nerfs.

But everyone will say "its fine". You know why?
Because Undaunted Command passive outperforms Combustion in trials if there is enough synergies.
Because Pillager and Minor Heroisom potions make Battle Roar go crazy.
Because Minor Magickasteal and all sustain buffs from healers are all they need.

You could literally remove all class sustain passives and trial groups would still be fine sustain wise.
Why in the world are you nuking solo players for ungodly power creep in group play?
Want worse sustain in trials? Nuke Undaunted Command. Nuke Sustain Synergies. Implement some mechs that make sustain worse. Maybe then healers will go back to wearing sustain sets. But class sustain passives? You can remove them and trial groups would still be fine. At worst they would need to run regen food...

Like... DK has the most expensive semispammable in tha game while at the same time having the worst sustain in the game. Where is the logic...

Honestly? Im just tired. And please, just dont bother saying "Just change skill lines to get better sustain" because that just not nice.

ZhuJiuyin · April 15

Fatecarver gets 8% more damage, and is now able to gain sustained damage from Grave Lord's Sacrifice15% + Rapid Rot10% from Grave Lord by Subclassing, as well as a large amount of Critical from Assassination, now capable of over 140K on single target.
Yet, the developers are worried that Sorc's Daedric Prey will allow pets from other class lines to deal more damage? In addition, they completely ignore the other Sorc skill lines.
If Arc's insane sustained damage buff is acceptable, why worry about Sorc's Daedric Prey? At the same time, Sorc's other skill lines are completely ignored. The meaning of their existence in the past was to provide damage to pets, or they could only exist reasonably by relying on pet construction, such as Energized and Expert Mage.
But now the developers say "Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole." However, they did not provide reasonable Dark Magic and Storm Calling Buffs, which is tantamount to sentencing non-pet Sorc to death!

@ZOS_Kevin Please adjust Dark Magic and Storm Calling so that they are truly balanced.

In the Dark Magic line of Sorc, only Crystal Fragments and Exploitation are valuable, and Storm Calling, except for Hurricane, has almost no PVE skills worth inserting. Even the passive abilities, since Storm Calling actually lacks Shock and Physical Damage that are practical in PVE, and most other classes also lack Shock and Physical Damage, Energized does not have much value. Expert Mage also loses value after swapping Daedric Summoning for other class skill lines because Dark Magic and Storm Calling are rarely used in PVE. Also, because sorc's pets have Shock Damage, Energized will be useless to sorcs if pets are not used.
Due to the reasons mentioned above, the remaining skills and passive abilities of non-pte Socr are almost completely incompatible with other classes.

I'm not against Subclassing, but if Dark Magic and Storm Calling are not completely remade, non-pte Socr will completely die in Subclassing.

suggestion:
1. Swap Bound Armaments with Daedric Mines, and change the passive ability of Bound Armaments to While slotted, your Max Stamina&Magic is increased by 5%.
2. Change Lightning Splash to the same level as Spear Shards, increase damage, and allow own synergy.
3. Exchange Power Stone with Persistence to turn all Daedric Summoning abilities except pets into tank abilities.
4.Expert Summoner changed back to U45 effect.
5. Suppression Field has been reworked, leaving the silencing effect to Absorption Field, and greatly increasing the damage of Suppression Field, and giving Major Brittle to the damaged target, making it competitive with Atronach.
6. Reworked Endless Fury, removed the execution effect, and provided more damage, making it a spam skill for sorc.
7. Reworked Power Surge and changed it to a sticky dot similar to Degeneration.
8. Buff Shattering Spines, so that it gives a 10-second sticky dot and a 4-second delayed burst of direct damage, making it a qualified damage skill.
9. Defensive Rune has been reworked to have an effect similar to Solar Barrage, dealing direct damage every 5 seconds centered on itself, and increasing the damage the target receives from the black magic skill line.

Darkness734 · April 15

@ZOS_Kevin Is anyone going to look at buffing werewolves? The absolutely absurd numbers people are putting up with mixing classes further disenfranchises werewolves. Quite literally its only viable to play werewolf in solo play right now with any and every other option being much more viable.

I have been reporting bug reports and posting about this and I'll continue to do so until this is looked at. I would at least like to be a mid lvl dps performer in group settings, is that too much to ask for?

Udrath · April 15

Templar:

If beam is now dodgeable then streak should be dodgeable!!!!!

Restoring Light tree is way to strong and will outperform all the other support/healing skill trees.

The first passive needs to be changed to something else that is not as powerful because the class already gets minor mending. In fact this passive was fine the way it was before.

The blocking needs to go and be changed to minor resolve.

The other passive skills could use buffs and the ultimate should be buffed. Like one could do half damage and half healing, and the other just heals.

My biggest concern is the buff to jabs and burning light only for someone to decide to nerf it in the future. The devs did this last time with power of the light, and suspect that is the plan this time since radiant destruction has been made dodgeable. It’s almost like the dev doing this plays nightblade in pvp???😂

xAlucardx92 · April 15

Mages' Fury: This ability and its morphs now last for 2 seconds, down from 4.

Make it 3 or 2,5 seconds, so that you can still build a combo around it

Capacitor: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 54/108 per Sorcerer ability slotted

Change it to Class ability slotted, so it better harmonious with the new subclass system