PTS Update 46 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

danielarvynn1

Now that Grim Focus, and its morphs stacks up to 10, it has become handy and useful when you do an excess of light attacks. The only issue I've encounted thus far is when I have 5 stacks (icon changed to Spectral Bow), if I do any successive light attacks it reverts back to non-bow proc icon. It's kinda annoying if you don't keep track of your stacks.

MafiaCat115

Could it be reconsidered to have the the Slate Gray skin for the Warden bear become unlocked for anyone specced into Animal Companions instead of just from-the-start Wardens? That skin is in a weird state between not being like the other skill styles with having a class requirement and yet is categorized like the rest of them. I know that it is far older than the rest of the styles, hence the difference in implementation, but it seems only fair that it is fully modernized with this update's class reworkings.

katorga

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Subclassing feels rotten for sorc no matter what you are planning to do. I'm not sure what the solution is, but this seems to punish sorc more than anything else.

Welp, I've played Sorc for a long, long time with no heals on ward and back barred resto. That said, I'll keep storm calling for streak. That is probably it. NB Assassination for burst and passives. My NB gets streak. My sorc gets a newly buffed Merciless/Grim Focus.

PVE sorc primary storm calling for passives, arcanist for fatecarver/runeblades, Necro Gravelord for sacrificial bones, rapid rot and more crit. Beacon of oblivion/Deadly = 30% damage. necro another 25% damage, Velothy ur Mage, 15%, lightning staff and CP another 24%, amplitude 1-10% ----> 95-104% damage before crit. hmmm.

Rkindaleft

I just wanna say Eight Puppies on his stream got up to 171k without using bugged Solar Barrage.

Basically every trial isn’t balanced for this level of damage. Fatecarver did nearly 90k of DPS just by itself. The power creep will be blown out of the water.

I honestly don’t know what you can even do to make this balanced but there needs to be something like a small nerf to skills from outside your main class or something else (the casuals and roleplayers can still use it and they’re a large portion of the player base that actually likes this) otherwise I think you should go back to the drawing board because if you play at a level where this stuff actually matters this just feels wrong.

Joy_Division

I like what ZOS is trying to do with subclasses. I do.

But add me to the voices who are not happy with the sorcerer changes. For 11 years, I have always felt as if I was being punished for not playing a pet sorc. Now ZOS is just washing its hands of the whole thing, telling me to just go pick up another class line. Not so easy if you're looking for an all around build as there were things in Daedric Summoning that were core to how sorcerer's played, even if they didn't make use of all of them (Curse delayed burst, magicka passive, shield scaling off magicka, etc).

I also think the developer comment about Mage's Fury is outdated from 2016. This skill has always been weak when it came to damage. Even before scribing, before Hybridization, this skill was not used in meta PvE DPS rotations.

For PvP, this skill was once OK when it was undodgeable and player health was in the 22K health range ensuring that it would actually execute a target. Most of the better sorcerer players have long dropped this skill because bar space is at a premium and it's not worth slotting an execute that too often no longer executes with everyone is running around in super high health builds in PvP meta heavily biases healing/defense.

DaisyRay

So basically I have to become a pet sorc or swap that skill line for one of the other heavily nerfed skill lines. Gotcha. About what I expected to happen.

pandazooka

With a stamsorc that chooses not to use pets, there doesn't appear to be any decent alternative for Daedric Summoning. Bound Armaments by itself is a very powerful ability, and none of the passives benefit the play style. Looking at other skill lines, nothing else compares to Bound Armaments in damage and the buff it provides.

supabicboi

Joy_Division wrote: »

I like what ZOS is trying to do with subclasses. I do.

But add me to the voices who are not happy with the sorcerer changes. For 11 years, I have always felt as if I was being punished for not playing a pet sorc. Now ZOS is just washing its hands of the whole thing, telling me to just go pick up another class line. Not so easy if you're looking for an all around build as there were things in Daedric Summoning that were core to how sorcerer's played, even if they didn't make use of all of them (Curse delayed burst, magicka passive, shield scaling off magicka, etc).

I also think the developer comment about Mage's Fury is outdated from 2016. This skill has always been weak when it came to damage. Even before scribing, before Hybridization, this skill was not used in meta PvE DPS rotations.

For PvP, this skill was once OK when it was undodgeable and player health was in the 22K health range ensuring that it would actually execute a target. Most of the better sorcerer players have long dropped this skill because bar space is at a premium and it's not worth slotting an execute that too often no longer executes with everyone is running around in super high health builds in PvP meta heavily biases healing/defense.

see this guys knows what hes talking abt for sorcs, WHY ZOS WHY MASSACRE MY SORC WHY

how about remove pets from sorcs completely? why punish non pet sorcs?? that flappy bird and that ugly ahh imp needs to go. why force non pet sorcs to turn to NB or other classes for skills.... just cuz subclass is becoming a feature............................

lydra

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Feedback for "Classes"? What is that?
I don't get why you would add Subclassing (it's actually Multiclassing) but then put an artificial restriction on it like not being able to swap all 3 skill lines or only being allowed to take one of each class. If a combination of 2 Necro 1 Sorc is allowed for Necro, why disallow it for Sorc? You are clearly fine with Sorcs giving up two of their skill lines if they are spread out more and it's not a balance concern either. It's just an artificial limitation. Either remove classes completely, or keep the restrictions tighter to where they still make sense (for example by only allowing one skill line swap, not two).

100% agree. This completely destroys the point of picking a class in the first place, without actually making possible to truly change your class. PICK ONE.

Personally, I like the idea of being able to change out one skill line. But if I can change out 2, then why can't I change 3 and make a character I have as say a nightblade intoa sorc? Why the aftificial limit if you're going to do this?

Meiox

Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
General Skill Line: We’re removing the separation of a pet vs no pet build in this skill line now that sub-classing is here. Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole. Many abilities in this skill line have been adjusted with this in mind.

I guess, solo-no-pet-sorcerers are not supposed to use shields?

VixxVexx

You could've gone so many different ways for Daedric Summoning but you picked one of the worst options:

• Make pets 1-bar only like netch, mender, etc (make them non-permanent for all I care)
• Change one morph of each pet skill to something similar like the vengeance versions (non-pet versions)
• Add a seperate pet skill line for everyone and give sorc some frost/fire skills which you'd expect from a sorc
• Remove the pet requirement entirely for the passive and just give the max stats for slotting or active skills

ZhuJiuyin

Since Daedric Summoning takes up most of the PVE Sorc's slots and dps sources (permanent pets 4 + Atronach 1 + (possible Bound Armaments 1), this has caused sorcs in the past to complain about the lack of enough slots and flexibility.
However, since Subclassin requires at least one sorc skill line to be retained, non-pet sorc players will find it embarrassing that, except for Crystal and Hurricane, they can hardly carry the abilities from the other two sorc lines.

Dark Magic: Aside from the powerful crystals and team buffs from Exploitation, the other skills and passive abilities are lackluster.
Storm Calling: Surge, Lightning Splash, Boundless Storm, and Endless Fury all need to be reworked, otherwise they will not be able to compete with other Subclassings.

This means that if Daedric Summoning is swapped out, Sorc will almost never be able to use any abilities from the Sorc class skill line, because those abilities either have very low damage or have extremely poor passives in the skill line. If I don't need to carry the Sorc class skill, why don't I choose other class combinations Subclassing from the beginning?

Even if I swap Daedric Summoning with Herald of the Tome, I will still lose the team buff from Atronach, and the dps still won't be enough to compete with other Subclassing compositions.


suggestion:
1. Swap Bound Armaments with Daedric Mines, and change the passive ability of Bound Armaments to While slotted, your Max Stamina&Magic is increased by 5%.
2. Change Lightning Splash to the same level as Spear Shards, increase damage, and allow own synergy.
3. Exchange Power Stone with Persistence to turn all Daedric Summoning abilities except pets into tank abilities.
4.Expert Summoner changed back to U45 effect.
5. Suppression Field has been reworked, leaving the silencing effect to Absorption Field, and greatly increasing the damage of Suppression Field, and giving Major Brittle to the damaged target, making it competitive with Atronach.
6. Reworked Endless Fury, removed the execution effect, and provided more damage, making it a spam skill for sorc.
7. Reworked Power Surge and changed it to a sticky dot similar to Degeneration.
8. Buff Shattering Spines, so that it gives a 10-second sticky dot and a 4-second delayed burst of direct damage, making it a qualified damage skill.
9. Defensive Rune has been reworked to have an effect similar to Solar Barrage, dealing direct damage every 5 seconds centered on itself, and increasing the damage the target receives from the black magic skill line.

Sordidfairytale

Diundriel wrote: »

Needing 10 light attack stacks for Grim Focus makes it much worse for pvp … nightblade lives of having frequent burst and making it a proc every 10 or more seconds instead of 5ish is mega nerf … do you want me to backbar it for the 600 spelldamage and then drop siphoning skillline to slot crystal fragments on a nightblade???

It’s gonna be interesting having those huge crystal frags on magblade but I kinda liked using grim focus…

You don't need 10, you get a proc at 5 stacks and a second proc at 10 stacks. So you can basically have a double barrel grim focus.

Soundinfinite

Can the Sorc finisher now be moved to 25% Health at least, so it matches other executes in the game in power...I'm good giving it a 0.5 sec window or no window at all...whatever you want to have it actually chime in power for some PVE play...also, so people can stop claiming none of your kills are really yours in PVP. I mean is that a fair trade off....you got finisher scaling from 100%, 50%, 40%, now 30%, and then the base of 25% for the bulk of them....awww...except that sorc one, nope 20%.

While your at it why can't you just make the Lightning the Sorcs spammable....that then has an explosion at execute...since the skill already works that way...so Sorcs have a spammable, and the lightning DPS line can actually have some, ya know, DPS skills in it...and also hit that sweet spot for those "Elementalist" builds that your live stream claimed you were allowing us to make with subclassing.

And the whole attitude of use pets or go home regarding the sorcerer, is just simply wrong, and uncalled for. Hell half the classes of your game are some sort of pet build for optimum DPS, you all are very pet happy designers...Nightblade...pet...check, shadow warrior...Sorc pet...triple check....Warden...pets...yep just throw them on....Necor...well c'mon its in the dang name...what else were you expecting?

Well maybe I was expecting a Sorcerer to be ya know a sorcerer....Not a Conjurer, or a Summoner (CAUSE THOSE ARE DIFFERENT BUILDS or um CLASSES in most games and fantasy play)...BUT JUST A YA KNOW SORCERER...maybe....

But for an action based game it sure is fun to hold heavy attack and have 90 pets do all the action....

See, I can be nasty and have attitude too...Zos you and your devs aren't the only ones.

No one asked for this Subclassing...so don't give us something we didn't ask for and act like we should be thankful all while taking away what little we were working with before it.

Been here since 2015...so 10 years...gone through lots of changes and rolled with em....but never have I felt offended by your own words in patch notes.

RlyDontKnow

Diundriel wrote: »

Needing 10 light attack stacks for Grim Focus makes it much worse for pvp … nightblade lives of having frequent burst and making it a proc every 10 or more seconds instead of 5ish is mega nerf … do you want me to backbar it for the 600 spelldamage and then drop siphoning skillline to slot crystal fragments on a nightblade???

It’s gonna be interesting having those huge crystal frags on magblade but I kinda liked using grim focus…

Seems like you neither read the patch notes properly nor tried it ingame.
"We're allowing for over-generating stacks for this ability, so missing activation on the final stack don’t severely reduce the effectiveness of this ability - which adds up over the course of the fight. Now it allows for more wiggle room, letting you chamber up to 2 shots if you reach max stacks - which also allows for more creative use as well. As such, we're reducing the passive power of this ability slightly when using the ability similarly as before - where you fire a shot every 5-6 seconds, while increasing the passive power if you wait to use it back-to-back. This should also allow for the ability to fit into more play styles, especially for Heavy Attack builds that lost a stack of this ability every time they reached the cap."

You still need 5 stacks to fire the proc which will continue to consume 5 stacks. So you can fire 2 procs back to back if you kept 10 stacks. This is far from being a nerf...

I think being able to store two procs is overkill. Let it go to 9 (or some other number in between) to give it some leeway without allowing to store two full procs to limit the burst it provides a bit.

techprince

Subclassing should limit only one dps/healer/tank skill line. It means you can only have one of each type.

Turtle_Bot

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Edit: Your dev comment for BA nerfs is from Deadric Prey, so I'm super curious to see the reasoning behind this.

Why? Bound Armaments is already the worse of the two, and for some reason you decided to buff Grim Focus by allowing the Weapon Damage to stack to 450/600, while nerfing Bound Armaments damage by -10% despite them being functionally the same ability. Mercilous Resolve already deals 37% more damage than BA on live, it now has up to 450 weapon damage, lasts infinitely while BA stacks only last 10s, and lastly heals for a huge amount. Also allowing for 2 procs on both abilities is a neat idea, but it can't be understated how powerful it's going to be to allow someone 2 chances at using Grim Focus from stealth, a skill that deals ult level burst with Death Stroke.. but yeah.. lets buff Grim Focus and nerf BA because of pet sorcs?

Also, why is Bound Armaments and Bound Aegis still providing +8% Mag OR +8% Stam when we're still hybridzing the game to work for everyone? This is the same patch you've hybridized NB's Magicka Flood to also offer Stamina.

Additionally, you removed the Expert Summoner passive for no pet Sorc's that were the most likely to use skills like Bound Armaments (nerfed), Hardened Ward (nerfed), and Haunting Curse. Your dev comment of "no pet sorc's can use subclassing" is really underhanded. No other class seems to have nerfs with comments like that. I thought the point was for subclassing to be optional, not necessarily optimal, and this is coming from someone excited to use it, but I can't understand why the class is designed this way.

On the chance I want to use Daedric Summoning without pets, I'm now punished for it. I really want to use these core abilities I care about, but why would I when NB's Assassination line esentially does the same thing, but better in every way? Why offer the option to use those skills at all if the line is meant for pets?

Can we just outright move Bound Armaments to Dark Magic? Maybe move Mines or Encase over to Daedric Summoning? If you did that, then Dark Magic would be a little bit more enticing to use. As it stands now, it has Crystal Frags and that's it. Dark Deal for pvp, then a bunch of cost reduction passives and minor prophecy (which has no other passive bonus despite NB giving 10% crit dmg) which I could again.. pick up from NB's Assassination line giving me over 25% crit chance, up to 600 weapon damage, and 2k resource return from kills.

Sorcerer as a whole feels very disjointed. Storm Calling is the obvious "DPS" line, but really, it's a damage/utility line with Surge/Streak taking up 2/5 slots. Only Hurricane is worth using in all content for DPS, Endless Fury is only useful for kill stealing in pvp and is by far the weakest execute in the game for pve, and Liquid Lightning hasn't been on a Sorc's bar in pve for 6 years.

Obviously this is entirely from a DPS perspective. The sustain passive shifting to Storm Calling, moving to flat weapon damage instead of a multilpier, mitigation for Daedric Summoning being active, and Crystal Shards proccing from either bar are all decent to cool changes. Also the Hardened Ward nerf was entirely justified, but most of us never requested the heal in the 1st place.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror can we get some direct (and immediate) responses to these concerns please? Better yet, some comments from the team on how ZOS plans to resolve these issues moving forward.

All the good work done over the past year to bring non-pet sorcerers into a somewhat viable state (in PvE) has been completely undone with the changes made in this PTS, made even worse by how intertwined sorcs skills are for the different roles across all 3 lines (much more so than the other classes kits are).

ADarklore

techprince wrote: »

Subclassing should limit only one dps/healer/tank skill line. It means you can only have one of each type.

Does Skyrim force you to do this? NO... well, the design of this game is 'Skyrim with friends' and ZOS does not consider ESO to be a traditional MMO. And while they flirted with the concept of having a dps/healer/tank line- subclassing now brings it closer to 'Skyrim with friends'. It gives tanks the option to run all tank lines, or healers to run all healer lines, and dps to run all dps lines if they so choose. So why force people to spec into class lines that wouldn't fit their build anyway?

ForumBully

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Edit: Your dev comment for BA nerfs is from Deadric Prey, so I'm super curious to see the reasoning behind this.

Why? Bound Armaments is already the worse of the two, and for some reason you decided to buff Grim Focus by allowing the Weapon Damage to stack to 450/600, while nerfing Bound Armaments damage by -10% despite them being functionally the same ability. Mercilous Resolve already deals 37% more damage than BA on live, it now has up to 450 weapon damage, lasts infinitely while BA stacks only last 10s, and lastly heals for a huge amount. Also allowing for 2 procs on both abilities is a neat idea, but it can't be understated how powerful it's going to be to allow someone 2 chances at using Grim Focus from stealth, a skill that deals ult level burst with Death Stroke.. but yeah.. lets buff Grim Focus and nerf BA because of pet sorcs?

Also, why is Bound Armaments and Bound Aegis still providing +8% Mag OR +8% Stam when we're still hybridzing the game to work for everyone? This is the same patch you've hybridized NB's Magicka Flood to also offer Stamina.

Additionally, you removed the Expert Summoner passive for no pet Sorc's that were the most likely to use skills like Bound Armaments (nerfed), Hardened Ward (nerfed), and Haunting Curse. Your dev comment of "no pet sorc's can use subclassing" is really underhanded. No other class seems to have nerfs with comments like that. I thought the point was for subclassing to be optional, not necessarily optimal, and this is coming from someone excited to use it, but I can't understand why the class is designed this way.

On the chance I want to use Daedric Summoning without pets, I'm now punished for it. I really want to use these core abilities I care about, but why would I when NB's Assassination line esentially does the same thing, but better in every way? Why offer the option to use those skills at all if the line is meant for pets?

Can we just outright move Bound Armaments to Dark Magic? Maybe move Mines or Encase over to Daedric Summoning? If you did that, then Dark Magic would be a little bit more enticing to use. As it stands now, it has Crystal Frags and that's it. Dark Deal for pvp, then a bunch of cost reduction passives and minor prophecy (which has no other passive bonus despite NB giving 10% crit dmg) which I could again.. pick up from NB's Assassination line giving me over 25% crit chance, up to 600 weapon damage, and 2k resource return from kills.

Sorcerer as a whole feels very disjointed. Storm Calling is the obvious "DPS" line, but really, it's a damage/utility line with Surge/Streak taking up 2/5 slots. Only Hurricane is worth using in all content for DPS, Endless Fury is only useful for kill stealing in pvp and is by far the weakest execute in the game for pve, and Liquid Lightning hasn't been on a Sorc's bar in pve for 6 years.

Obviously this is entirely from a DPS perspective. The sustain passive shifting to Storm Calling, moving to flat weapon damage instead of a multilpier, mitigation for Daedric Summoning being active, and Crystal Shards proccing from either bar are all decent to cool changes. Also the Hardened Ward nerf was entirely justified, but most of us never requested the heal in the 1st place.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror can we get some direct (and immediate) responses to these concerns please? Better yet, some comments from the team on how ZOS plans to resolve these issues moving forward.

All the good work done over the past year to bring non-pet sorcerers into a somewhat viable state (in PvE) has been completely undone with the changes made in this PTS, made even worse by how intertwined sorcs skills are for the different roles across all 3 lines (much more so than the other classes kits are).

"Play with pets or swap the skill line" is a real slap in the face. If you want to make a Pets-Only line, I would hope the devs are at least open to swapping out the skills that non-pet players use to another skill line.

sans-culottes

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Sorcerer:

General Skill Line: We’re removing the separation of a pet vs no pet build in this skill line now that sub-classing is here. Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole. Many abilities in this skill line have been adjusted with this in mind

This might be the most insulting dev comment I have ever seen. JUST BECAUSE I HATE THE STUPID PETS DOES NOT MEAN I WANT TO GIVE UP BEING A SORCERER. Rethink this philosophy. We spent years getting you to stop crapping all over non-pet sorc. Straight up slap in the face.

Not to mention more stupid changes (Bound Armaments damage) that continue to make it straight up worse than other options.

I feel like we deserve a straight up answer from ZOS on who is responsible for this, and why someone who obviously hates the sorcerer class is in charge of developing it.

ForumBully wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Edit: Your dev comment for BA nerfs is from Deadric Prey, so I'm super curious to see the reasoning behind this.

Why? Bound Armaments is already the worse of the two, and for some reason you decided to buff Grim Focus by allowing the Weapon Damage to stack to 450/600, while nerfing Bound Armaments damage by -10% despite them being functionally the same ability. Mercilous Resolve already deals 37% more damage than BA on live, it now has up to 450 weapon damage, lasts infinitely while BA stacks only last 10s, and lastly heals for a huge amount. Also allowing for 2 procs on both abilities is a neat idea, but it can't be understated how powerful it's going to be to allow someone 2 chances at using Grim Focus from stealth, a skill that deals ult level burst with Death Stroke.. but yeah.. lets buff Grim Focus and nerf BA because of pet sorcs?

Also, why is Bound Armaments and Bound Aegis still providing +8% Mag OR +8% Stam when we're still hybridzing the game to work for everyone? This is the same patch you've hybridized NB's Magicka Flood to also offer Stamina.

Additionally, you removed the Expert Summoner passive for no pet Sorc's that were the most likely to use skills like Bound Armaments (nerfed), Hardened Ward (nerfed), and Haunting Curse. Your dev comment of "no pet sorc's can use subclassing" is really underhanded. No other class seems to have nerfs with comments like that. I thought the point was for subclassing to be optional, not necessarily optimal, and this is coming from someone excited to use it, but I can't understand why the class is designed this way.

On the chance I want to use Daedric Summoning without pets, I'm now punished for it. I really want to use these core abilities I care about, but why would I when NB's Assassination line esentially does the same thing, but better in every way? Why offer the option to use those skills at all if the line is meant for pets?

Can we just outright move Bound Armaments to Dark Magic? Maybe move Mines or Encase over to Daedric Summoning? If you did that, then Dark Magic would be a little bit more enticing to use. As it stands now, it has Crystal Frags and that's it. Dark Deal for pvp, then a bunch of cost reduction passives and minor prophecy (which has no other passive bonus despite NB giving 10% crit dmg) which I could again.. pick up from NB's Assassination line giving me over 25% crit chance, up to 600 weapon damage, and 2k resource return from kills.

Sorcerer as a whole feels very disjointed. Storm Calling is the obvious "DPS" line, but really, it's a damage/utility line with Surge/Streak taking up 2/5 slots. Only Hurricane is worth using in all content for DPS, Endless Fury is only useful for kill stealing in pvp and is by far the weakest execute in the game for pve, and Liquid Lightning hasn't been on a Sorc's bar in pve for 6 years.

Obviously this is entirely from a DPS perspective. The sustain passive shifting to Storm Calling, moving to flat weapon damage instead of a multilpier, mitigation for Daedric Summoning being active, and Crystal Shards proccing from either bar are all decent to cool changes. Also the Hardened Ward nerf was entirely justified, but most of us never requested the heal in the 1st place.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror can we get some direct (and immediate) responses to these concerns please? Better yet, some comments from the team on how ZOS plans to resolve these issues moving forward.

All the good work done over the past year to bring non-pet sorcerers into a somewhat viable state (in PvE) has been completely undone with the changes made in this PTS, made even worse by how intertwined sorcs skills are for the different roles across all 3 lines (much more so than the other classes kits are).

"Play with pets or swap the skill line" is a real slap in the face. If you want to make a Pets-Only line, I would hope the devs are at least open to swapping out the skills that non-pet players use to another skill line.

While I understand your frustration, particularly if you’ve invested years refining a non-pet Sorcerer build, I don’t think this warrants the level of outrage we’re seeing here. The intention seems to be to provide more build flexibility through subclassing, not to erase class identity.

That said, I do agree that this feels like an implicit concession that some skill lines are fundamentally underperforming and won’t be rebalanced meaningfully anytime soon. The result is that, paradoxically, experienced players may end up with fewer viable options, not more. Choosing to abandon a class-defining skill line because it’s lackluster isn’t much of a “choice” in practice.

But calling this a “slap in the face” or suggesting developer malice doesn’t help the discussion. The real issue here isn’t bad faith; it’s bad balance. And we should absolutely keep the pressure on ZOS to address that with clarity and intention.

READLER

For many years now, we've been hearing from developers "We hear sorc's want to play not only through pets" and every time you drive us into this style of play even more?
One of the most terrible patches for a sorcerer. Even subclasses won't save us. Especially players who want to play more for their original class.

ForumBully

If there's a reason for removing the usefulness of the line for non pet Sorcs, I'd love to hear it. Seems like they could have just specified "Daedric Summoning Pets" if they didn't want the line buffing Necro or Warden, etc, pets and maybe removed the Hardened Wars heal if they wanted to and stopped there. There was no need for the extra step of telling non pet builds to simply swap the line.
We have to stop using Ward and Curse because those now belong exclusively to pet builds?

lPeacekeeperl

After some testing (only on dummies for now) im pretty happy with new system, though some point id like to mention

1) so much rebalance and muticlassing at the same time feels like overkill, just too much to process for "testers" and players

2) why only 2 out of 3 branches can be changed? Sure, class sets, but you can limit their usage not to "original class" but to corespondent branch.
Also, do we really have to be locked to our initial choice? I mean, my path through the game and my "role-play" experience newer was to closely linked to my class or skills, as a warden most of the "single-play" was done with weapon and guild skill (cause class skill were not so great most of the time ) Like, we can change race (which is impossible irl) and cannot change "profession" (which is literally everywhere irl) cmonn, give us freedom of choice

2.1) most classes have dedicated DPS skillbranches (with many +% dmg passives) looks like "3 dps branch" will be DPS meta for trials/vet-dungeons. I'm not saying this might be a problem, but ...

3) from Warden perspective(some may disagree) now about finally make a choice, are we "magical" "casters" or are we "frost" "casters"? Sorc as example: has passive buff for shock damage and 90% of skill do shock damage, or DK do fire and buff fire, but warden now, again, has frost dmg buff, but most of skills do "magic" dmg. So please, convert "animal" magic skill to frost dmg, or fix Piercing Cold to buff all mag dmg(but do we really need dmg buff in tank branch?).

4) from necro POW - looks like corpse management will be even bigger pain. dunno, maybe move from "corpses on the ground" to "souls around you. Like arcanist Crux. would be easier to calculate, track, manage. will lose "laser beams though, but, were they realy usable? or so visually appealing?

SaintJohnHM

The sorcerer changes are wretched.

If they can't make subclassing work without ruining classes, why are they doing this? I've never heard anyone ask for subclassing; scribing is much more fun.

ADarklore

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

The sorcerer changes are wretched.

If they can't make subclassing work without ruining classes, why are they doing this? I've never heard anyone ask for subclassing; scribing is much more fun.

People have been asking for this for YEARS. Not directly by calling it 'subclassing'... but class change tokens especially are highly requested. IMO, subclassing is much better than a class change token because this allows us to change ANY TIME. Does it need some work and adjustments, sure... I mean it's only been on PTS not even a day... this is what feedback is for. But in the end, I think it could very well save the game by bringing back players and bringing in new players who don't want to be locked into a single class or be forced to run alts just to have some variety.

AdmiralDigby

https://youtu.be/HtWkuaY1Arw

SaintJohnHM

Wrong. Ruining current classes to be able to add skill lines from another class is vastly different than the class change tokens we've heard people asking for. Class change tokens would be much more welcome than ruining sorc tanking etc.

ADarklore wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

The sorcerer changes are wretched.

If they can't make subclassing work without ruining classes, why are they doing this? I've never heard anyone ask for subclassing; scribing is much more fun.

People have been asking for this for YEARS. Not directly by calling it 'subclassing'... but class change tokens especially are highly requested. IMO, subclassing is much better than a class change token because this allows us to change ANY TIME. Does it need some work and adjustments, sure... I mean it's only been on PTS not even a day... this is what feedback is for. But in the end, I think it could very well save the game by bringing back players and bringing in new players who don't want to be locked into a single class or be forced to run alts just to have some variety.

ADarklore

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

Wrong. Ruining current classes to be able to add skill lines from another class is vastly different than the class change tokens we've heard people asking for. Class change tokens would be much more welcome than ruining sorc tanking etc.

ADarklore wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

The sorcerer changes are wretched.

If they can't make subclassing work without ruining classes, why are they doing this? I've never heard anyone ask for subclassing; scribing is much more fun.

People have been asking for this for YEARS. Not directly by calling it 'subclassing'... but class change tokens especially are highly requested. IMO, subclassing is much better than a class change token because this allows us to change ANY TIME. Does it need some work and adjustments, sure... I mean it's only been on PTS not even a day... this is what feedback is for. But in the end, I think it could very well save the game by bringing back players and bringing in new players who don't want to be locked into a single class or be forced to run alts just to have some variety.

So you're saying that because you and a small minority of Sorc tanks have a problem, that the majority should suffer by not getting new content? And no, class change tokens would NOT be more welcome, it would just be a continuation of the same stale game that's driven many players to leave. Subclassing will bring more players back because it offers more options, and in the long term health of the game, that's a good thing.

SaintJohnHM

ADarklore wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

Wrong. Ruining current classes to be able to add skill lines from another class is vastly different than the class change tokens we've heard people asking for. Class change tokens would be much more welcome than ruining sorc tanking etc.

ADarklore wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

The sorcerer changes are wretched.

If they can't make subclassing work without ruining classes, why are they doing this? I've never heard anyone ask for subclassing; scribing is much more fun.

People have been asking for this for YEARS. Not directly by calling it 'subclassing'... but class change tokens especially are highly requested. IMO, subclassing is much better than a class change token because this allows us to change ANY TIME. Does it need some work and adjustments, sure... I mean it's only been on PTS not even a day... this is what feedback is for. But in the end, I think it could very well save the game by bringing back players and bringing in new players who don't want to be locked into a single class or be forced to run alts just to have some variety.

So you're saying that because you and a small minority of Sorc tanks have a problem, that the majority should suffer by not getting new content? And no, class change tokens would NOT be more welcome, it would just be a continuation of the same stale game that's driven many players to leave. Subclassing will bring more players back because it offers more options, and in the long term health of the game, that's a good thing.

Nope, I'm saying you're wrong for thinking that ruining current classes in exchange for subclassing is the same as a class change token. I don't want to derail the rest of the discussion, enjoy your day.

JaxontheUnfortunate

ColoniaCroisant wrote: »

Am I crazy or did Werewolves get shadow nerfed? I didn't see anything about armor passives no longer working on wolves and yet when I transform now my crit drops like they don't. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin intended change or accidental?

Hmm I didn't notice that when I was playing around with that, I will have to take a closer look on that later.

I checked the stats on the tool tips and regardless of the morph I saw no changes outside of the weapon passives of course.