Apologies but I personally think skill, situational awareness, hawk eye on buff/debuff durations, using class passives & advantages effectively and lastly gear are the hallmark of our best players in this excellent game.

There are a lot of tiers in this and any game, and it should take both expertise & dedication to achieve the top tiers.

"We, who are about to die, salute you"

Frogmother wrote: »

that gear based PvP does not work.
No matter how good you are , a worse player with PvP gear will have a too big advantage over you. Such events are a fun trap for everyone who wants the rewards but usually does not participate in PvP.

Mommy... is that you?

Anyway, there are ways to make a build without PVP gear. For me, I hadn't PVP'd with my main in a long time but decided I want to rank up my main. I have some PVP builds on dedicated PVP toons but had none for this. So I quickly slapped something together. I am a bad to average player when it comes to PVP but still with this crafted build I have managed to hold my own longer than I should be able to with my skills. Amazingly I didn't even completely suck in bg.

Here is the super secret build that is so incredibly original no one surely has ever done anything like it:
2pc Balorgh
Heavy trainee chest
MA axes on fb
WV ice staff on bb (wanna use s&b? Go for it. I just happened to have a frost staff in a chest.)
S&S neck

This is like complaining you cant clear Vateshran with a trail healer setup lol

spartaxoxo wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

DeadlySerious wrote: »

Frogmother wrote: »

that gear based PvP does not work.
No matter how good you are , a worse player with PvP gear will have a too big advantage over you. Such events are a fun trap for everyone who wants the rewards but usually does not participate in PvP.

Edit:
almost every Battleground game ends becaus we steamroll the other team or we get steamrolled by them. Less than a handful games was more or less even.

What do you expect to happen when you go into PvP wearing PvE gear?

Your conclusion is not accurate because you didn't gear up for PvP in the first place. Plus, if ZOS mandates the template only PvP they're gonna lose a ton of the PvP players that most likely won't be replaced by the PvE crowd suddenly becoming enamored with PvP. The template only PvP system is a lose lose proposition for ZOS.

You have to play PvP to earn PvP gear... 🙄

Any PvP player would know this... 😑

I'm a veritable noob to PvP in ESO. In all the years I've played, this is the first year I've ever decided to get my feet wet in the PvP arena. And I managed to get PvP gear from my PvE resources.

There are crafted sets that require zero PvP. And tons of gear you can buy from the Traders to stickerbook for reconstruction using Transmute Crystals collected from PvE content, As well numerous PvE dungeon sets that are commonly used in PvP builds.

I geared up my PvP builds, and went charging into Cyro, IC, and BG's without a care in the world. I still got spanked quite a bit (cuz hey, you still gotta learn to play against humans), but it most I can confidently say that it wasn't due to the gear.

Good for you. But that was not the point of this topic.

I merely presented data to refute your claim. I didn't bring it up. <shrug>

I think OP's point isn't

"It's too difficult to get PvP gear," but rather that having to collect gear for PvP at all creates an inferior PvP experience to games where gear plays no role in player success at all.

When you look at the most successful pvp games on the market, gear isn't a factor in most of them.

Personally, I think the OP has a point but it's probably too late for this game to change things up.

I think it about PvP reward really too bad so buy/farm PvP set just waste of your gold ...wait PvP have reward(?
As a pve main ,I feel pvp build(and class) choose still better than Pve more...
I can play my necro/stam sorc/nb and run no meta build (class set or all crafter set) do good pvp in 210+ping
If I have healer in group and not combat with a low ping nb/sorc/dk

Calastir wrote: »

DeadlySerious wrote: »

Frogmother wrote: »

that gear based PvP does not work.
No matter how good you are , a worse player with PvP gear will have a too big advantage over you. Such events are a fun trap for everyone who wants the rewards but usually does not participate in PvP.

Edit:
almost every Battleground game ends becaus we steamroll the other team or we get steamrolled by them. Less than a handful games was more or less even.

What do you expect to happen when you go into PvP wearing PvE gear?

Your conclusion is not accurate because you didn't gear up for PvP in the first place. Plus, if ZOS mandates the template only PvP they're gonna lose a ton of the PvP players that most likely won't be replaced by the PvE crowd suddenly becoming enamored with PvP. The template only PvP system is a lose lose proposition for ZOS.

You have to play PvP to earn PvP gear... 🙄

Any PvP player would know this... 😑

uh, a lot of us play in sets that work for PVP that don't even come from any PVP zone...read information online about it, and you'll learn what PVP players really do

Calastir wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

DeadlySerious wrote: »

Frogmother wrote: »

that gear based PvP does not work.
No matter how good you are , a worse player with PvP gear will have a too big advantage over you. Such events are a fun trap for everyone who wants the rewards but usually does not participate in PvP.

Edit:
almost every Battleground game ends becaus we steamroll the other team or we get steamrolled by them. Less than a handful games was more or less even.

What do you expect to happen when you go into PvP wearing PvE gear?

Your conclusion is not accurate because you didn't gear up for PvP in the first place. Plus, if ZOS mandates the template only PvP they're gonna lose a ton of the PvP players that most likely won't be replaced by the PvE crowd suddenly becoming enamored with PvP. The template only PvP system is a lose lose proposition for ZOS.

You have to play PvP to earn PvP gear... 🙄

Any PvP player would know this... 😑

uh, a lot of us play in sets that work for PVP that don't even come from any PVP zone...read information online about it, and you'll learn what PVP players really do

I've already been forced to spend 1/5 of my life studying stuff I didn't enjoy. Now call it weird but with what little free time professional life allows me, I think it's the developers' job to present their customers something they actually enjoy doing. Like playing a video game.

you don't become skilled at stuff in life by expecting companies to hand it over to you, that includes a game
part of the fun of PVP is actually to learn it and to understand what you need to do for it
you speak about things that you didn't research and don't know about, that's my point.
do research before you make a statement. what you did with your life isn't relevant to the conversation.
Don't make comments like "A pvp player would know this" when you don't understand yourself what a pvp player would know.

TheMajority wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

DeadlySerious wrote: »

Frogmother wrote: »

that gear based PvP does not work.
No matter how good you are , a worse player with PvP gear will have a too big advantage over you. Such events are a fun trap for everyone who wants the rewards but usually does not participate in PvP.

Edit:
almost every Battleground game ends becaus we steamroll the other team or we get steamrolled by them. Less than a handful games was more or less even.

What do you expect to happen when you go into PvP wearing PvE gear?

Your conclusion is not accurate because you didn't gear up for PvP in the first place. Plus, if ZOS mandates the template only PvP they're gonna lose a ton of the PvP players that most likely won't be replaced by the PvE crowd suddenly becoming enamored with PvP. The template only PvP system is a lose lose proposition for ZOS.

You have to play PvP to earn PvP gear... 🙄

Any PvP player would know this... 😑

uh, a lot of us play in sets that work for PVP that don't even come from any PVP zone...read information online about it, and you'll learn what PVP players really do

I've already been forced to spend 1/5 of my life studying stuff I didn't enjoy. Now call it weird but with what little free time professional life allows me, I think it's the developers' job to present their customers something they actually enjoy doing. Like playing a video game.

you don't become skilled at stuff in life by expecting companies to hand it over to you, that includes a game
part of the fun of PVP is actually to learn it and to understand what you need to do for it
you speak about things that you didn't research and don't know about, that's my point.
do research before you make a statement. what you did with your life isn't relevant to the conversation.
Don't make comments like "A pvp player would know this" when you don't understand yourself what a pvp player would know.

In your haste to refute my message, you totally missed the point. We shouldn't need to study online information outside the game in order to play the game. Skills should mainly improve by playing the game.

Frogmother wrote: »

that gear based PvP does not work.
No matter how good you are , a worse player with PvP gear will have a too big advantage over you. Such events are a fun trap for everyone who wants the rewards but usually does not participate in PvP.

Edit:
almost every Battleground game ends becaus we steamroll the other team or we get steamrolled by them. Less than a handful games was more or less even.

Is your observation solely based on BG's or did you also spend time in IC and Cyrodiil?

I am asking out of genuine curiosity as, while I don't necessarily agree that the event "proves" your experience (because it hasn't been mine), I also think that the closed environment of BG's and the updates to it have accidentally exacerbated this issue in BG's specifically, and I have experienced this even without the event.

The unpredictability and scale and scope of Cyro lends itself to luck and awareness of your environment serving as a key to success as much as anything else. You also need seige and the ability to read the maps and interpret the chat to be able to participate successfully. Sure, you can run into small-scale fights where it's "my build is better than your build" but for the larger scale battles the build doesn't matter so much. And even if you have a PvP build, it's going to matter a lot whether you are built for bombing vs. sniping vs. scroll running depending on the scenario you enter. For years I jumped into Cyro and IC with my PvE builds and was able to do quite well, especially as a healer in large scale fights. I often felt I was able to help turn the tide of battle by reviving players, healing, helping with siege, burning enemy camps and siege, taking resources, and so on. Usually it's about numbers and strategy, not one person's specific build. And fantastically awesomely geared PvP players die to bombers, ball groups, and siege the same as everyone else.

However, the change in BG's from three teams to two teams, the smaller maps, and the issues with the MMR have removed a lot of the unpredictability and strategy out of BG's, such that it seems even more about 1vx fighting and nothing else. There's never a third team to disrupt, no pathways to sneak around from behind... just pure brute force. You run into the same teammates over and over and if you can't beat them once, it's unlikely you can turn the tables in the second, third, fourth run-in because there are very few disruptive cards to play. In that scenario, skills and cleverness aren't going to be as strong as great gear. It's a timed session, too, so physical stamina (not game stamina but human stamina) is unlikely to be a factor as it can be in longer fights in Cyro and IC. From the perspective of BG's only, I would agree that this could be an issue.

I will also say, though, that if one never PvP's except for the event, I do wonder how one knows that they are a better player than the "worse player with PvP gear?" Or in other words, how do you know the players are "worse players" than you? It takes a lot of skill and practice to become good at fighting and killing other players. It's completely different than learning mechanics and the teamwork and rotational skills and discipline needed to be skilled in PvE. I found I became a much better PvE player when I started to PvP more seriously. I understand the point being made, which is that you'd prefer it if gear wasn't a factor in PvP success, but I should think in a lot of cases, if someone has geared themselves for PvP, it's likely they also have a lot more practice, too. One might have the "Flawless Conqueror" title but be very unskilled in PvP. Just sayin'.

I think it would be perfectly fine if ZOS provided PvP templates to help PvE'ers get started in PvP, but only if we are still allowed to make our own PvP builds as well. Otherwise it would dumb down PvP significantly, which seems like an odd direction to go. Adapt PvP environments, enjoyed by people who like to PvP, to better cater to people who prefer to avoid PvP? That would be silly.

Frogmother wrote: »

that gear based PvP does not work.
No matter how good you are , a worse player with PvP gear will have a too big advantage over you. Such events are a fun trap for everyone who wants the rewards but usually does not participate in PvP.

Edit:
almost every Battleground game ends becaus we steamroll the other team or we get steamrolled by them. Less than a handful games was more or less even.

Maybe, same opinion like me.

PVP is not character building competition at all. Dev team keep ruining PVP contents by fake PVP game.

Calastir wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

DeadlySerious wrote: »

Frogmother wrote: »

that gear based PvP does not work.
No matter how good you are , a worse player with PvP gear will have a too big advantage over you. Such events are a fun trap for everyone who wants the rewards but usually does not participate in PvP.

Edit:
almost every Battleground game ends becaus we steamroll the other team or we get steamrolled by them. Less than a handful games was more or less even.

What do you expect to happen when you go into PvP wearing PvE gear?

Your conclusion is not accurate because you didn't gear up for PvP in the first place. Plus, if ZOS mandates the template only PvP they're gonna lose a ton of the PvP players that most likely won't be replaced by the PvE crowd suddenly becoming enamored with PvP. The template only PvP system is a lose lose proposition for ZOS.

You have to play PvP to earn PvP gear... 🙄

Any PvP player would know this... 😑

uh, a lot of us play in sets that work for PVP that don't even come from any PVP zone...read information online about it, and you'll learn what PVP players really do

I've already been forced to spend 1/5 of my life studying stuff I didn't enjoy. Now call it weird but with what little free time professional life allows me, I think it's the developers' job to present their customers something they actually enjoy doing. Like playing a video game.

you don't become skilled at stuff in life by expecting companies to hand it over to you, that includes a game
part of the fun of PVP is actually to learn it and to understand what you need to do for it
you speak about things that you didn't research and don't know about, that's my point.
do research before you make a statement. what you did with your life isn't relevant to the conversation.
Don't make comments like "A pvp player would know this" when you don't understand yourself what a pvp player would know.

In your haste to refute my message, you totally missed the point. We shouldn't need to study online information outside the game in order to play the game. Skills should mainly improve by playing the game.

nope, I didn't miss any point. I'm telling you your point isn't what games are about. also, there was not any haste. I don't agree with feeding players tutorials beyond basic new player stuff and that's that.

that's not how games or life works. no matter what you will have outside guides to get better because in game guides won't teach you how to be good, just new introduction. no matter what or how detailed there will be always somebody outside of the game who makes a better and with more detail a guide that allows a player to be the best, not just standard.

if you actually want to grow in skill, you can't rely on in game tutorials. im glad this game does not hold players hands because it means that those with real skill put in the time and effort to be that way and do their research not just getting it handed through the game tutorial.

You people never give up do you? Bringing up the same refuted points over and over again.

So adversarial. Which explains your love of PvP.!

I personally don't know what PvP gear is, it all looks the same.
I wear Grothdarr's mask. Is that PvP?
As long as I can kill mudcrabs. lol

Frogmother wrote: »

that gear based PvP does not work.

That is your experience.

It seems to be working very well for people who understand gear/sets/stats and are able to use that knowledge to design playstyles that work.

You should need to learn the game before you can excel and eventually win at it. And this is an MMORPG after all, if you don't want the ability to make those choices in the picture then why play one?

Also gear is only one part of the picture. Your skills, passives and how you use them are a major factor.

Solariken wrote: »

I agree plz nerf Rallying Cry.

Again? Seriously, this whole "nerf this, buff this" crap is kinda tiring. They WILL nerf something eventually, just ask the Azureblight fandom. Gear is definitely important to PvP in this game, and even though ZoS isn't particularly good at getting stable balancing in place, there are always ways to counter gear sets in PvP. The best players in the game (and I most definitely do NOT count myself amongst that group) will find a way to make their play style successful, patch after update after patch after update. Adjust, as in all things in this universe, or you will not find your happy place.

Rikkadir wrote: »

I personally don't know what PvP gear is, it all looks the same.
I wear Grothdarr's mask. Is that PvP?
As long as I can kill mudcrabs. lol

If the tooltip includes the word "player" or "enemy" in the description, you can use it for PvP. If it only says "monsters", you can still use it, but any procs won't hurt other players. So yes, a 2-pc Grothdarr set will proc the lava damage against players, guards and monsters in a PvP zone.