Discussion Thread: Dev Team’s “Top 5 Bugs & Pain Points” Request

DenverRalphy · February 2

virtus753 wrote: »

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DenverRalphy wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Bank Stacking seems to be under represented under pain points.

The bank ui is in dire need of a Stack All option. Let alone a smarter algorithm knowing when to stack items upon deposit.

Dumb question, can't yoou just hit Y or something and it makes the stacks for you?

Nope. The bank UI doesn't have a Stack function like your inventory does. So when your bank is at like 480/500, you have to actually go through all 480 items to find duplicates to withdraw, stack, re-deposit. Gotta keep a sharp eye out anytime you deposit anything stackable (ie.. surveys).

Oddly, while they did put a Split Stack option into the bank ui, they left out the reverse.

It would be nice if they could do it and we could get rid of Roomba (PC addon).

I always figured it was due to database concurrency issues that they did not want to solve, since 500 people could be using the bank at the same time. Updating stacks is a lot more risky than just adding a new entry in the table.

Not in my top-10 list of things I would ask for, though.

The Guild Bank has its own long list of flaws. But I'm referring to the player bank itself. There's only 1 entity able to withdraw/deposit at any given time.

I may be misremembering, but I thought that guild bank stacking had been a thing very early on and had to be removed due to duplication issues. It's been a very long time, though.

Djennku wrote: »

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virtus753 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Bank Stacking seems to be under represented under pain points.

The bank ui is in dire need of a Stack All option. Let alone a smarter algorithm knowing when to stack items upon deposit.

Dumb question, can't yoou just hit Y or something and it makes the stacks for you?

Nope. The bank UI doesn't have a Stack function like your inventory does. So when your bank is at like 480/500, you have to actually go through all 480 items to find duplicates to withdraw, stack, re-deposit. Gotta keep a sharp eye out anytime you deposit anything stackable (ie.. surveys).

Oddly, while they did put a Split Stack option into the bank ui, they left out the reverse.

It would be nice if they could do it and we could get rid of Roomba (PC addon).

I always figured it was due to database concurrency issues that they did not want to solve, since 500 people could be using the bank at the same time. Updating stacks is a lot more risky than just adding a new entry in the table.

Not in my top-10 list of things I would ask for, though.

The Guild Bank has its own long list of flaws. But I'm referring to the player bank itself. There's only 1 entity able to withdraw/deposit at any given time.

I may be misremembering, but I thought that guild bank stacking had been a thing very early on and had to be removed due to duplication issues. It's been a very long time, though.

Exactly this. People were duplicating stuff and exploiting the system.

The solution then would be to fix the stacking mechanism and put it back in. They used a saber when a scalpel would have sufficed.

sarahthes · February 3

DenverRalphy wrote: »

show previous quotes

virtus753 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Bank Stacking seems to be under represented under pain points.

The bank ui is in dire need of a Stack All option. Let alone a smarter algorithm knowing when to stack items upon deposit.

Dumb question, can't yoou just hit Y or something and it makes the stacks for you?

Nope. The bank UI doesn't have a Stack function like your inventory does. So when your bank is at like 480/500, you have to actually go through all 480 items to find duplicates to withdraw, stack, re-deposit. Gotta keep a sharp eye out anytime you deposit anything stackable (ie.. surveys).

Oddly, while they did put a Split Stack option into the bank ui, they left out the reverse.

It would be nice if they could do it and we could get rid of Roomba (PC addon).

I always figured it was due to database concurrency issues that they did not want to solve, since 500 people could be using the bank at the same time. Updating stacks is a lot more risky than just adding a new entry in the table.

Not in my top-10 list of things I would ask for, though.

The Guild Bank has its own long list of flaws. But I'm referring to the player bank itself. There's only 1 entity able to withdraw/deposit at any given time.

I may be misremembering, but I thought that guild bank stacking had been a thing very early on and had to be removed due to duplication issues. It's been a very long time, though.

show previous quotes

Djennku wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Bank Stacking seems to be under represented under pain points.

The bank ui is in dire need of a Stack All option. Let alone a smarter algorithm knowing when to stack items upon deposit.

Dumb question, can't yoou just hit Y or something and it makes the stacks for you?

Nope. The bank UI doesn't have a Stack function like your inventory does. So when your bank is at like 480/500, you have to actually go through all 480 items to find duplicates to withdraw, stack, re-deposit. Gotta keep a sharp eye out anytime you deposit anything stackable (ie.. surveys).

Oddly, while they did put a Split Stack option into the bank ui, they left out the reverse.

It would be nice if they could do it and we could get rid of Roomba (PC addon).

I always figured it was due to database concurrency issues that they did not want to solve, since 500 people could be using the bank at the same time. Updating stacks is a lot more risky than just adding a new entry in the table.

Not in my top-10 list of things I would ask for, though.

The Guild Bank has its own long list of flaws. But I'm referring to the player bank itself. There's only 1 entity able to withdraw/deposit at any given time.

I may be misremembering, but I thought that guild bank stacking had been a thing very early on and had to be removed due to duplication issues. It's been a very long time, though.

Exactly this. People were duplicating stuff and exploiting the system.

The solution then would be to fix the stacking mechanism and put it back in. They used a saber when a scalpel would have sufficed.

It's a server latency issue with the guild bank, unfortunately. Not really a coding issue.

katanagirl1 · February 4

I just wanted to say that there were a lot of good points made in all of the posts in the official thread, but since we were limited I chose the ones that affected me most directly. A lot of the others are certainly bugs and pain points that need to be fixed and addressed, and I will continue to support them in other threads even if I did not mention them. I set a pretty high pain threshold for the thread, lol.

DenverRalphy · February 4

sarahthes wrote: »

show previous quotes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Bank Stacking seems to be under represented under pain points.

The bank ui is in dire need of a Stack All option. Let alone a smarter algorithm knowing when to stack items upon deposit.

Dumb question, can't yoou just hit Y or something and it makes the stacks for you?

Nope. The bank UI doesn't have a Stack function like your inventory does. So when your bank is at like 480/500, you have to actually go through all 480 items to find duplicates to withdraw, stack, re-deposit. Gotta keep a sharp eye out anytime you deposit anything stackable (ie.. surveys).

Oddly, while they did put a Split Stack option into the bank ui, they left out the reverse.

It would be nice if they could do it and we could get rid of Roomba (PC addon).

I always figured it was due to database concurrency issues that they did not want to solve, since 500 people could be using the bank at the same time. Updating stacks is a lot more risky than just adding a new entry in the table.

Not in my top-10 list of things I would ask for, though.

The Guild Bank has its own long list of flaws. But I'm referring to the player bank itself. There's only 1 entity able to withdraw/deposit at any given time.

I may be misremembering, but I thought that guild bank stacking had been a thing very early on and had to be removed due to duplication issues. It's been a very long time, though.

Djennku wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Bank Stacking seems to be under represented under pain points.

The bank ui is in dire need of a Stack All option. Let alone a smarter algorithm knowing when to stack items upon deposit.

Dumb question, can't yoou just hit Y or something and it makes the stacks for you?

Nope. The bank UI doesn't have a Stack function like your inventory does. So when your bank is at like 480/500, you have to actually go through all 480 items to find duplicates to withdraw, stack, re-deposit. Gotta keep a sharp eye out anytime you deposit anything stackable (ie.. surveys).

Oddly, while they did put a Split Stack option into the bank ui, they left out the reverse.

It would be nice if they could do it and we could get rid of Roomba (PC addon).

I always figured it was due to database concurrency issues that they did not want to solve, since 500 people could be using the bank at the same time. Updating stacks is a lot more risky than just adding a new entry in the table.

Not in my top-10 list of things I would ask for, though.

The Guild Bank has its own long list of flaws. But I'm referring to the player bank itself. There's only 1 entity able to withdraw/deposit at any given time.

I may be misremembering, but I thought that guild bank stacking had been a thing very early on and had to be removed due to duplication issues. It's been a very long time, though.

Exactly this. People were duplicating stuff and exploiting the system.

The solution then would be to fix the stacking mechanism and put it back in. They used a saber when a scalpel would have sufficed.

It's a server latency issue with the guild bank, unfortunately. Not really a coding issue.

Again... not talking about the Guild Bank.

Destai · February 4

LadyGP wrote: »

Kevin created a thread asking players to submit their top five bugs and pain points that we would like addressed but asked to keep comments to a minimum.

This thread is for discussing the dev team’s request itself, what bugs and issues you think are the most important, and any expectations or thoughts on how they might address them.

Here’s a link to the original thread for reference: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672718/dev-team-request-a-top-5-list-of-bugs-and-pain-points-you-would-like-addressed#latest

For me the top bug I was going to put in was stuck in combat and then pain points was going to be overall performance. Sounds like they are actilvey working on both.

So far I'm impressed with the changes ZoS has made to coms and player engagement. The off the cuff stream they did the other day was awesome as well - loved the insight.

I'm really impressed with the new direction community management is taking. It's long overdue, and I'm not sure what really changed over there, but I'm happy nonetheless.

This request was a great place to start. The format was clear and concise. There seems to be a lot of common ground - especially around performance and combat bugs. If anything, it'll help ZOS identify and prioritize some really targeted efforts.

Off the cuff is great, especially with folks like Rich who really have a lot of knowledge. That did way more to restore my confidence in the game than some rehearsed stream or corporate letter. Just talking to people like people goes so much further. And the community seems to be more positive as a result.

LadyGP · February 4

Destai wrote: »

show previous quotes

LadyGP wrote: »

Kevin created a thread asking players to submit their top five bugs and pain points that we would like addressed but asked to keep comments to a minimum.

This thread is for discussing the dev team’s request itself, what bugs and issues you think are the most important, and any expectations or thoughts on how they might address them.

Here’s a link to the original thread for reference: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672718/dev-team-request-a-top-5-list-of-bugs-and-pain-points-you-would-like-addressed#latest

For me the top bug I was going to put in was stuck in combat and then pain points was going to be overall performance. Sounds like they are actilvey working on both.

So far I'm impressed with the changes ZoS has made to coms and player engagement. The off the cuff stream they did the other day was awesome as well - loved the insight.

I'm really impressed with the new direction community management is taking. It's long overdue, and I'm not sure what really changed over there, but I'm happy nonetheless.

This request was a great place to start. The format was clear and concise. There seems to be a lot of common ground - especially around performance and combat bugs. If anything, it'll help ZOS identify and prioritize some really targeted efforts.

Off the cuff is great, especially with folks like Rich who really have a lot of knowledge. That did way more to restore my confidence in the game than some rehearsed stream or corporate letter. Just talking to people like people goes so much further. And the community seems to be more positive as a result.

I can't agree more with this and I think we need to be more vocal about our apprciation for the change. We, me included, have been so vocal about the poor coms for a while and now that they are making changes it's only right that we acknowledge it.. and continue to acknowledge the changes.

Bravo @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno and anyone else I forgot to mention that played a role in this. We see you... and very much appreciate it.

code65536 · February 4

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Again... not talking about the Guild Bank.

Erm, there is and has always been a stack button in the vanilla UI for the player bank. At least on PC non-gamepad. Is this a console and/or gamepad issue?

DenverRalphy · February 4

code65536 wrote: »

show previous quotes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Again... not talking about the Guild Bank.

Erm, there is and has always been a stack button in the vanilla UI for the player bank. At least on PC non-gamepad. Is this a console and/or gamepad issue?

Nope, no there is not. There is Split Stack, but you can't restack without pulling back into inventory, stack, re-deposit. I'm on console now, but switched from PC.

In any case, I think this may be derailing the purpose of the thread. So I'll just leave it at that.

ZOS_Kevin · February 4

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

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ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for starting this conversation, @LadyGP.

Just wanted to put a reminder that if folks share bugs and pain points here, that they also reflect that in the thread where we are collecting the list from players. LadyGP has it in the first post of this thread.

Hey Kevin, I posted in the thread but just wanted to add here that I wonder if this might also be some good material for a survey, like y'all did last year about guilds. Not that you won't get useful feedback here on the forum, but I feel like that's going to be very difficult to parse through. Especially with the answers varying so greatly depending on the areas of the game that people engage with. Just a thought about another potential avenue for gathering this feedback from players but in perhaps a more structured way.

It's really nice to see our feedback being sought after, whatever form that may take.

That is a good idea. The general point with the thread is to get a baseline for the communities most sought after bugs. We are reviewing this now and seeing what can get tackled and when. However, getting more feedback via a survey is not a bad idea and something we can work on for later in the year.

We do have a few surveys in the works on other issues, so we need to finish those and get them out before taking on any other survey projects.

ZOS_Kevin · February 4

LadyGP wrote: »

show previous quotes

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for starting this conversation, @LadyGP.

Just wanted to put a reminder that if folks share bugs and pain points here, that they also reflect that in the thread where we are collecting the list from players. LadyGP has it in the first post of this thread.

Hey Kevin, I posted in the thread but just wanted to add here that I wonder if this might also be some good material for a survey, like y'all did last year about guilds. Not that you won't get useful feedback here on the forum, but I feel like that's going to be very difficult to parse through. Especially with the answers varying so greatly depending on the areas of the game that people engage with. Just a thought about another potential avenue for gathering this feedback from players but in perhaps a more structured way.

It's really nice to see our feedback being sought after, whatever form that may take.

I think Kevin mentioned that they are working on a survey for performance and are in the final stages of that.

This is correct. It is finished and we are getting it translated so that other regions can share feedback as well. Working on getting this out very soon!

ZOS_Kevin · February 4

Elsonso wrote: »

show previous quotes

LadyGP wrote: »

Kevin created a thread asking players to submit their top five bugs and pain points that we would like addressed but asked to keep comments to a minimum.

This thread is for discussing the dev team’s request itself, what bugs and issues you think are the most important, and any expectations or thoughts on how they might address them.

So, about the request itself, my plan is to ignore it. My expectations are that it won't matter. My expectation is that they will be more attracted to player comments that align favorably with their current decisions and not as much for comments that are not.

I expect that they already have stuff in the works. Planned, booked, and confirmed. While ZOS needs to listen to players, I think that what we say now won't be in the game for over a year, assuming that it aligns well with what ZOS wants. 2026 or even 2027. By then, the player comments and opinions may be very much different than they are today. Many players that respond to this query today may not even be playing the game anymore.

The goal is to get feedback to that we can see what can be prioritized over the next few updates and then plan out from there. Part of Matt's end of year letter notes how the team is working to be more agile and tackle things at a faster rate. So the ask is helping to set up for that. Obviously, ultimately up to you on your level of participation in that. Just wanted to provide extra context for the ask.

kind_hero · February 4

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

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valenwood_vegan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for starting this conversation, @LadyGP.

Just wanted to put a reminder that if folks share bugs and pain points here, that they also reflect that in the thread where we are collecting the list from players. LadyGP has it in the first post of this thread.

Hey Kevin, I posted in the thread but just wanted to add here that I wonder if this might also be some good material for a survey, like y'all did last year about guilds. Not that you won't get useful feedback here on the forum, but I feel like that's going to be very difficult to parse through. Especially with the answers varying so greatly depending on the areas of the game that people engage with. Just a thought about another potential avenue for gathering this feedback from players but in perhaps a more structured way.

It's really nice to see our feedback being sought after, whatever form that may take.

That is a good idea. The general point with the thread is to get a baseline for the communities most sought after bugs. We are reviewing this now and seeing what can get tackled and when. However, getting more feedback via a survey is not a bad idea and something we can work on for later in the year.

We do have a few surveys in the works on other issues, so we need to finish those and get them out before taking on any other survey projects.

I believe that some systems deserve their own thread of "5x pain points", like combat, housing, pvp or character customization. Also, some QoL type of requests, such as removing or increasing a cap for tickets, gems etc, or stacking maps, are easier to implement, and could be prioritized. You would also save some resources by removing duplicate stacks or items.

KAT0MI · February 4

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for starting this conversation, @LadyGP.

Just wanted to put a reminder that if folks share bugs and pain points here, that they also reflect that in the thread where we are collecting the list from players. LadyGP has it in the first post of this thread.

Hey Kevin, I posted in the thread but just wanted to add here that I wonder if this might also be some good material for a survey, like y'all did last year about guilds. Not that you won't get useful feedback here on the forum, but I feel like that's going to be very difficult to parse through. Especially with the answers varying so greatly depending on the areas of the game that people engage with. Just a thought about another potential avenue for gathering this feedback from players but in perhaps a more structured way.

It's really nice to see our feedback being sought after, whatever form that may take.

I completely agree on your point that many of us have different focuses on content in the game that most of the time I feel like many of my suggestions get missed or ignored because they do not follow the majority voice on the forums.

Like kevin mentioned I did post on their original post here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8260834#Comment_8260834 but the issue is I have so many more suggestions and multiple bugs that I have discovered in the game that being limited to 5 points for each makes it hard to narrow it down. I just wrote the first things that came to mind for the list.

DenverRalphy · February 4

I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding what the purpose of the data collection is.

It's not to gather data about what is broken or needs work, because they know that already. They have a very extensive todo list of which everything the players are pointing out is already on. Rather, it is instead gathering data to determine which of those things players feel needs the most immediate attention.

ZOS_Kevin · February 4

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding what the purpose of the data collection is.

It's not to gather data about what is broken or needs work, because they know that already. They have a very extensive todo list of which everything the players are pointing out is already on. Rather, it is instead gathering data to determine which of those things players feel needs the most immediate attention.

Bingo. This is the main point.

katanagirl1 · February 4

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

show previous quotes

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for starting this conversation, @LadyGP.

Just wanted to put a reminder that if folks share bugs and pain points here, that they also reflect that in the thread where we are collecting the list from players. LadyGP has it in the first post of this thread.

Hey Kevin, I posted in the thread but just wanted to add here that I wonder if this might also be some good material for a survey, like y'all did last year about guilds. Not that you won't get useful feedback here on the forum, but I feel like that's going to be very difficult to parse through. Especially with the answers varying so greatly depending on the areas of the game that people engage with. Just a thought about another potential avenue for gathering this feedback from players but in perhaps a more structured way.

It's really nice to see our feedback being sought after, whatever form that may take.

That is a good idea. The general point with the thread is to get a baseline for the communities most sought after bugs. We are reviewing this now and seeing what can get tackled and when. However, getting more feedback via a survey is not a bad idea and something we can work on for later in the year.

We do have a few surveys in the works on other issues, so we need to finish those and get them out before taking on any other survey projects.

I am curious how survey recipients are selected. Despite having many, many more hours in the game than most players and several stars next to my name here on the forums, I have never got one. I guess I have bad RNG everywhere, lol.

BetweenMidgets · February 4

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I am curious how survey recipients are selected. Despite having many, many more hours in the game than most players and several stars next to my name here on the forums, I have never got one. I guess I have bad RNG everywhere, lol.

I'm not 100% sure on this, however it seems like the last survey (the guild one that someone referenced earlier) was posted on the forums with a link to the survey. It was not emailed to us.

DenverRalphy · February 4

katanagirl1 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for starting this conversation, @LadyGP.

Just wanted to put a reminder that if folks share bugs and pain points here, that they also reflect that in the thread where we are collecting the list from players. LadyGP has it in the first post of this thread.

Hey Kevin, I posted in the thread but just wanted to add here that I wonder if this might also be some good material for a survey, like y'all did last year about guilds. Not that you won't get useful feedback here on the forum, but I feel like that's going to be very difficult to parse through. Especially with the answers varying so greatly depending on the areas of the game that people engage with. Just a thought about another potential avenue for gathering this feedback from players but in perhaps a more structured way.

It's really nice to see our feedback being sought after, whatever form that may take.

That is a good idea. The general point with the thread is to get a baseline for the communities most sought after bugs. We are reviewing this now and seeing what can get tackled and when. However, getting more feedback via a survey is not a bad idea and something we can work on for later in the year.

We do have a few surveys in the works on other issues, so we need to finish those and get them out before taking on any other survey projects.

I am curious how survey recipients are selected. Despite having many, many more hours in the game than most players and several stars next to my name here on the forums, I have never got one. I guess I have bad RNG everywhere, lol.

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

show previous quotes

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I am curious how survey recipients are selected. Despite having many, many more hours in the game than most players and several stars next to my name here on the forums, I have never got one. I guess I have bad RNG everywhere, lol.

I'm not 100% sure on this, however it seems like the last survey (the guild one that someone referenced earlier) was posted on the forums with a link to the survey. It was not emailed to us.

^^^^---- This

The surveys are typically open to everyone who clickies the link.

ZOS_Kevin · February 4

katanagirl1 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for starting this conversation, @LadyGP.

Just wanted to put a reminder that if folks share bugs and pain points here, that they also reflect that in the thread where we are collecting the list from players. LadyGP has it in the first post of this thread.

Hey Kevin, I posted in the thread but just wanted to add here that I wonder if this might also be some good material for a survey, like y'all did last year about guilds. Not that you won't get useful feedback here on the forum, but I feel like that's going to be very difficult to parse through. Especially with the answers varying so greatly depending on the areas of the game that people engage with. Just a thought about another potential avenue for gathering this feedback from players but in perhaps a more structured way.

It's really nice to see our feedback being sought after, whatever form that may take.

That is a good idea. The general point with the thread is to get a baseline for the communities most sought after bugs. We are reviewing this now and seeing what can get tackled and when. However, getting more feedback via a survey is not a bad idea and something we can work on for later in the year.

We do have a few surveys in the works on other issues, so we need to finish those and get them out before taking on any other survey projects.

I am curious how survey recipients are selected. Despite having many, many more hours in the game than most players and several stars next to my name here on the forums, I have never got one. I guess I have bad RNG everywhere, lol.

The last survey on Guilds was posted on the forum, discord and shared on social media. We will be posting surveys here on the forum, discord and on Reddit going forward. These are community team led surveys. However, sometimes our other teams send out surveys and they have their own data points they are trying to hit.

zharifa · February 4

Is it a bug that armory doesnt appear to save scribed skills?
Pain points: omg why do we need a password for the forums? one for the game, one for the website, one for the forums
Go back to the 4 weeks on trader sales, please.
Eliminate the low pop bonus in Cyrodiil; why reward a faction for not playing? Probably should make a second faction-locked campaign too, Greyhost seems overpopulated.
We need better sorting of patterns/formulas/well almost everything. Alphabetical > when you learned it.
I hear we are getting stacking treasure maps, good! Now about that 1000 limit on transmute crystals...

Thank you for asking! 8)

LadyGP · February 4

zharifa wrote: »

Probably should make a second faction-locked campaign too, Greyhost seems overpopulated.

I legit can't tell if this is sarcasm or not but I personally don't feel like greyhost is over populated. If anything, its way under.. often "dead".

zaria · February 4

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

The stuck in combat "bug" is particularly bad and needs to be addressed in a way where we don't have to deal with it again. Honestly, it'd be preferable to see people get mounted on the outskirts of the combat area to bail and "get away" so to speak than it would be to have to deal with this bug.

Nothing is worse than trying to play as a coordinated group, and you got half the group falling behind because they're still stuck in combat, even though your already half way to the next objective. Some nights have been so bad that I was relegated to just running between objectives (as a mag character with relatively low stam), and then you get to the objective without any resources, and you are at a major disadvantage. This is often catastrophic when you are fighting outnumbered all the time like my alliance is in my campaign.

Yes, one major issue is that if you are in an group and some distance from some in combat +200 meter to an kilometer because some ride to close to an wolf now group is in combat.
Remove the group part of in combat until this is fixed, realistic group in combat is deleted.
Another issue now we can often not put siege on hot wheel while inside keep while keep is not under siege but their fighting outside.

Elsonso · February 4

.

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

show previous quotes

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I am curious how survey recipients are selected. Despite having many, many more hours in the game than most players and several stars next to my name here on the forums, I have never got one. I guess I have bad RNG everywhere, lol.

I'm not 100% sure on this, however it seems like the last survey (the guild one that someone referenced earlier) was posted on the forums with a link to the survey. It was not emailed to us.

If I recall, the last time that happened the survey ended rather quickly. Unsure if they reached the number of responses they wanted, or didn't want just anyone to take it.

ESO_Nightingale · February 5

1 thing that surprised me was how few responses there were about combat changes directly

katanagirl1 · February 5

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

show previous quotes

katanagirl1 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for starting this conversation, @LadyGP.

Just wanted to put a reminder that if folks share bugs and pain points here, that they also reflect that in the thread where we are collecting the list from players. LadyGP has it in the first post of this thread.

Hey Kevin, I posted in the thread but just wanted to add here that I wonder if this might also be some good material for a survey, like y'all did last year about guilds. Not that you won't get useful feedback here on the forum, but I feel like that's going to be very difficult to parse through. Especially with the answers varying so greatly depending on the areas of the game that people engage with. Just a thought about another potential avenue for gathering this feedback from players but in perhaps a more structured way.

It's really nice to see our feedback being sought after, whatever form that may take.

That is a good idea. The general point with the thread is to get a baseline for the communities most sought after bugs. We are reviewing this now and seeing what can get tackled and when. However, getting more feedback via a survey is not a bad idea and something we can work on for later in the year.

We do have a few surveys in the works on other issues, so we need to finish those and get them out before taking on any other survey projects.

I am curious how survey recipients are selected. Despite having many, many more hours in the game than most players and several stars next to my name here on the forums, I have never got one. I guess I have bad RNG everywhere, lol.

The last survey on Guilds was posted on the forum, discord and shared on social media. We will be posting surveys here on the forum, discord and on Reddit going forward. These are community team led surveys. However, sometimes our other teams send out surveys and they have their own data points they are trying to hit.

I don’t use Discord or social media but I’m on here several times a day. I don’t remember seeing anything. I wouldn’t know when or where to look to be honest.

kiwi_tea · February 5

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

1 thing that surprised me was how few responses there were about combat changes directly

I feel like that reflects a lot of the complexity of ESO's community. I have good friends who avoid the "meta" very firmly, and run builds that do extremely low DPS (probably a 15-25k trial dummy parse max). They are very sweet, they play every day, and they deserve to be catered to. They collect stuff, they run normal pledges. They feel intimidated and judged by other players who, instead of nurturing them, treat their low DPS/Heals/etc as serious personal failings. They mostly play overland and normal dungeons. Nothing in the game helps them build more effectively than they already do, and they can become quite prickly about people trying to get them into more effective builds. The game doesn't foster *independence* about combat in a way that really helps people forge their own path. Oakensoul Sorcs and Wardens opened up huge avenues for these players, but really their options for low APM builds are still so restricted that anyone who doesn't want to run a particular style of Sorc or Warden is still left far, far behind.

I notice a huge number of my friends use sets that are objectively terrible, because that's a huge majority of the sets at this point. Most don't understand how poorly these sets perform and feel really confused and frustrated by how they underperform compared to the meta. Many want to wear sets for flavour, but also want their builds to be effective. It's sad to see so many of my friends gradually realise the cool effects of the sets they love are very hard to build around effectively without lots and lots of external guidance and niche expertise. Most recently I've seen a PVP DPS try very valiantly to build a Blooddrinker/Gryphon's Reprisal Nightblade - but without Bleed class abilities, and probably even with Scribed Bleed abilities, the build was always going to be DOA. Building in ESO isn't accessible or intuitive for casual players, and there is no guidance within the game itself for how to do it effectively. A good build is *complex*. Something like build templates would go a long way, especially if they explained the workings of each build in concise detail. Some in-game system that says: "Here's a build that, by-and-large, works in this role. Here's how and why it works. Here's ways you could adapt it with your preferred sets."

I love what Oakensorcs have done for accessibility. There should be more options like that for people with hand injuries, and for people overwhelmed by the complexities of weaving light attack within GCD for skills with varying cast times, etc. The whole raise the floor without lowering the ceiling notion is great. The ceiling has gotten so damned high that people on the floor can't see it. Who could blame players for not knowing what they don't know, and not getting any feedback from the game itself except that they keep dying? (Death recap often confuses more than it helps, while external tools like Combat Metrics at least *demystify* once players learn how to see the relevant parts).

It always frustrates me to see people left without adequate baseline support for a task. ESO does not provide casual players with adequate baseline support for doing combat - and efficient combat is not something a lot of ESO players concern themselves with until they hit a wall. The informed, 100k+ parse community is smaller than its members realise. One of the greatest challenges of increasing overland combat will likely be that a surprising proportion of the playerbase might be alienated and frustrated by overland content more challenging than it already is.

Jestir · February 5

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

1 thing that surprised me was how few responses there were about combat changes directly

The "ESO combat is an abomination" people most likely aren't going to be hanging out on the officials forums or the games dedicated sub reddit 10 years into the games lifespan

Like I might be the only person left from the large amount of people on these forums wanting a "class change token" (:< or alternate, class swapping through armory when?

) left after all these years

Eclipse318 · February 5

zharifa wrote: »

Go back to the 4 weeks on trader sales, please. (snip)
I hear we are getting stacking treasure maps, good! Now about that 1000 limit on transmute crystals...

All excellent (pain)points!

ESO_Nightingale · February 5

kiwi_tea wrote: »

show previous quotes

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

1 thing that surprised me was how few responses there were about combat changes directly

I feel like that reflects a lot of the complexity of ESO's community. I have good friends who avoid the "meta" very firmly, and run builds that do extremely low DPS (probably a 15-25k trial dummy parse max). They are very sweet, they play every day, and they deserve to be catered to. They collect stuff, they run normal pledges. They feel intimidated and judged by other players who, instead of nurturing them, treat their low DPS/Heals/etc as serious personal failings. They mostly play overland and normal dungeons. Nothing in the game helps them build more effectively than they already do, and they can become quite prickly about people trying to get them into more effective builds. The game doesn't foster *independence* about combat in a way that really helps people forge their own path. Oakensoul Sorcs and Wardens opened up huge avenues for these players, but really their options for low APM builds are still so restricted that anyone who doesn't want to run a particular style of Sorc or Warden is still left far, far behind.

I notice a huge number of my friends use sets that are objectively terrible, because that's a huge majority of the sets at this point. Most don't understand how poorly these sets perform and feel really confused and frustrated by how they underperform compared to the meta. Many want to wear sets for flavour, but also want their builds to be effective. It's sad to see so many of my friends gradually realise the cool effects of the sets they love are very hard to build around effectively without lots and lots of external guidance and niche expertise. Most recently I've seen a PVP DPS try very valiantly to build a Blooddrinker/Gryphon's Reprisal Nightblade - but without Bleed class abilities, and probably even with Scribed Bleed abilities, the build was always going to be DOA. Building in ESO isn't accessible or intuitive for casual players, and there is no guidance within the game itself for how to do it effectively. A good build is *complex*. Something like build templates would go a long way, especially if they explained the workings of each build in concise detail. Some in-game system that says: "Here's a build that, by-and-large, works in this role. Here's how and why it works. Here's ways you could adapt it with your preferred sets."

I love what Oakensorcs have done for accessibility. There should be more options like that for people with hand injuries, and for people overwhelmed by the complexities of weaving light attack within GCD for skills with varying cast times, etc. The whole raise the floor without lowering the ceiling notion is great. The ceiling has gotten so damned high that people on the floor can't see it. Who could blame players for not knowing what they don't know, and not getting any feedback from the game itself except that they keep dying? (Death recap often confuses more than it helps, while external tools like Combat Metrics at least *demystify* once players learn how to see the relevant parts).

It always frustrates me to see people left without adequate baseline support for a task. ESO does not provide casual players with adequate baseline support for doing combat - and efficient combat is not something a lot of ESO players concern themselves with until they hit a wall. The informed, 100k+ parse community is smaller than its members realise. One of the greatest challenges of increasing overland combat will likely be that a surprising proportion of the playerbase might be alienated and frustrated by overland content more challenging than it already is.

you're making some very valid points.

to add to why i was surprised, most of the discussion channels i look at on the forums are combat mechanics and the PTS. I just thought id see more people say things like they had grievances with stuff like gravelords sacrifice etc.

Amottica · February 5

LadyGP wrote: »

This thread is for discussing the dev team’s request itself, what bugs and issues you think are the most important, and any expectations or thoughts on how they might address them.

It would seem that the bugs and issues we think are most important is taken care of by the devs thread since that is what it is asking for.

So, really, the only question is how do we think they might address them, which is pretty much the same for all of them, and that is it is a long shot changes will be made. That comment is based on many that suggest we are not listened to and not my commentary on things.