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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
PTS Update 45 - Feedback Thread for Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)
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DrGIggles80✭✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.3 -
KiltMaster✭✭✭✭✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
Or they’ll all go play the strongest class and they’ll have plenty of data on NB and none on necro/templar.
They want to see how different things affect the server but you don’t get to see so many things in affect if folks aren’t testing them.
PC/NA
GM of "Kilts for Sale"
twitch.tv/thekiltmaster
He/Him5 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
Every class will seem like trash if you compare to live..... but you are not fighting against live enemies. You are fighting against other people who think their class is trash. How is it that everyone thinks their class is trash? Better incentives other than ap and xp are worth investigating though. Arena weapons or a new food recipe or something idk. Maybe mythic leads or transmutes?We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more3 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hey @acastanza_ESO, we understand why the balance topics you are calling out are important to you. We want to stress that for PTS specifically, this is a functionality test only, ahead of the live test and the test overall is designed to prioritize game performance to see what is possible. For this functionality test on the PTS, we are focused on the questions in the first post. Remember, the core point of this test is to see how Cyrodiil performs overall in a barebones environment, rather than on class kit focus.
I just want to follow up that this response is grossly misleading. @ZOS_GinaBruno popped into PainintheAxe's stream while he was on PTS and I had the opportunity to ask her if there was any possibility of seeing balance changes before this makes it to the live server, this is her response:
So, saying this is "for PTS specifically" is false. We do actually need to have the balance conversation right now.
There is nothing misleading here. We have stated this several times in this thread. The testing on PTS is for functionality testing. Making sure that the core systems works. When this goes to live for one week, it is to test for server performance. We have also said that balance is not the focus here.
What Gina noted is in line with that. Unless there is something horrific that needs to be fixed, the focus is on getting server performance data, not on class/skill balance, as previously stated.
I do think saying "for PTS specifically" a bunch of times in a bunch of places when there is zero intention doing any kind of adjustments before pushing it out to live is, in fact, misleading. I understand the purpose of the test, I was on board with it, I want to participate, but you have to understand, if there isn't even a cursory attempt at balance before making this the only campaign for a week you will absolutely kill any enthusiasm for participating. We're not asking for perfect just an attempt, all of the classes need to be in a state that makes them fun to play, that is not where this is right now. If this goes to live as-is, the campaign will be, at best, literally all nigthblades. I don't want this to feel like an attack here, I know you're just the messenger, and I know you've already passed along these concerns, but this is definitely something that the dev team needs to understand, and I really don't think they do.Edited by acastanza_ESO on January 22, 2025 6:11PM6 -
Erickson9610✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
People will still play this campaign during the test, especially since it will offer bonus AP. Further, since characters are replaced with templates, it's incredibly easy to create a Level 1 character of any Class and participate in the Cyrodiil test with full functionality as any other character — and since the most OP Classes for Vengeance are base game, it's highly unlikely that people can't make new characters to do well in the Cyrodiil test.PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the EP Templar Khajiit Werewolf
Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).0 -
DrGIggles80✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »Hey @acastanza_ESO, we understand why the balance topics you are calling out are important to you. We want to stress that for PTS specifically, this is a functionality test only, ahead of the live test and the test overall is designed to prioritize game performance to see what is possible. For this functionality test on the PTS, we are focused on the questions in the first post. Remember, the core point of this test is to see how Cyrodiil performs overall in a barebones environment, rather than on class kit focus.
I just want to follow up that this response is grossly misleading. @ZOS_GinaBruno popped into PainintheAxe's stream while he was on PTS and I had the opportunity to ask her if there was any possibility of seeing balance changes before this makes it to the live server, this is her response:
So, saying this is "for PTS specifically" is false. We do actually need to have the balance conversation right now.
There is nothing misleading here. We have stated this several times in this thread. The testing on PTS is for functionality testing. Making sure that the core systems works. When this goes to live for one week, it is to test for server performance. We have also said that balance is not the focus here.
What Gina noted is in line with that. Unless there is something horrific that needs to be fixed, the focus is on getting server performance data, not on class/skill balance, as previously stated.
if class and skill balance isnt a focus then why change them at all?KiltMaster wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
Or they’ll all go play the strongest class and they’ll have plenty of data on NB and none on necro/templar.
They want to see how different things affect the server but you don’t get to see so many things in affect if folks aren’t testing them.
so rather than make some quick balance changes we should gamble extra population for the test on hoping they will play a different class lmao got it.1 -
DrGIggles80✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
People will still play this campaign during the test, especially since it will offer bonus AP. Further, since characters are replaced with templates, it's incredibly easy to create a Level 1 character of any Class and participate in the Cyrodiil test with full functionality as any other character — and since the most OP Classes for Vengeance are base game, it's highly unlikely that people can't make new characters to do well in the Cyrodiil test.
so your suggesting players need to ake and level a new charchter just to participate in the test. ok...0 -
umagon✭✭✭✭✭1. Do characters properly zone into Cyrodiil with templatized Stats and Gear?
2. Do characters earn XP/AP/Gold upon leaving?
3. Do siege weapons still function with the limitations of only deploying 1 type at at time?
4. Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, etc?
5. What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
6. Do you have any general feedback?
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. No.
5. The environment effect in the zone looks nice.
6. The zone seems like it will be boring from a pvp stand point. The lack of build variance even within side of the class will just lead to spread sheet battles. Battles become boring when players can easily math out what they need to do and when.
The encounters just come down to who can execute actions faster and who makes mistakes. The whole part of figuring out your opponent’s build somewhat gets erased with the current version of the zone.
The biggest variance factor I saw was just crit damage. There should be some consideration to adding special sets and/or a variety of boons to the zone that players can pick from. But ones that are less taxing on the server. Maybe modeled after the mythics that only gave one type of effect and limited to one set and one boon.
3 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
The goal of the test is to see if the server can handle large scale battles with minimal calculations. Since ZOS mentioned they want to bring it back to original population caps which is about 1800 (Source here https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/6533), you class being "pure trash" is not going to matter if you have 400 other players around you making up for your weaknesses.
The biggest feedback I can give ZOS during PTS is better incentives to get players to join, especially for PvE players since the current PvP population is nowhere near 1800. They can't unlock/level alliance skills during the test which is what many of them wanted to do. Quests, skyshards, and fishing is also disabled. A PvEer is not going to care about alliance points as a currency, so I hope ZOS can come up with something before the test to incentivize players to join and stick around for the entire week. It's why I mentioned providing a unique cosmetic and a crown crate upon reaching tier 3 campaign rewards earlier in the thread.7 -
Erickson9610✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
People will still play this campaign during the test, especially since it will offer bonus AP. Further, since characters are replaced with templates, it's incredibly easy to create a Level 1 character of any Class and participate in the Cyrodiil test with full functionality as any other character — and since the most OP Classes for Vengeance are base game, it's highly unlikely that people can't make new characters to do well in the Cyrodiil test.
so your suggesting players need to ake and level a new charchter just to participate in the test. ok...
Make, but not level. You only need to be Level 1 because characters in Vengeance are templates. You don't get any benefit from CP, leveling/unlocking skills, or outside gear.
Just make a new character and jump in! Use a PvE character in the correct Class if necessary — it literally doesn't matter what that character has actually done. Surely out of all of those characters slots, everyone has one of each Class.Edited by Erickson9610 on January 22, 2025 6:23PMPC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the EP Templar Khajiit Werewolf
Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).2 -
DrGIggles80✭✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
The goal of the test is to see if the server can handle large scale battles with minimal calculations. Since ZOS mentioned they want to bring it back to original population caps which is about 1800 (Source here https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/6533), you class being "pure trash" is not going to matter if you have 400 other players around you making up for your weaknesses.
The biggest feedback I can give ZOS during PTS is better incentives to get players to join, especially for PvE players since the current PvP population is nowhere near 1800. They can't unlock/level alliance skills during the test which is what many of them wanted to do. Quests, skyshards, and fishing is also disabled. A PvEer is not going to care about alliance points as a currency, so I hope ZOS can come up with something before the test to incentivize players to join and stick around for the entire week. It's why I mentioned providing a unique cosmetic and a crown crate upon reaching tier 3 campaign rewards earlier in the thread.
0 -
DrGIggles80✭✭Again missing the point. if players dont like how their class plays they wont play... lower population will be the result.
4 -
DrGIggles80✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
People will still play this campaign during the test, especially since it will offer bonus AP. Further, since characters are replaced with templates, it's incredibly easy to create a Level 1 character of any Class and participate in the Cyrodiil test with full functionality as any other character — and since the most OP Classes for Vengeance are base game, it's highly unlikely that people can't make new characters to do well in the Cyrodiil test.
so your suggesting players need to ake and level a new charchter just to participate in the test. ok...
Make, but not level. You only need to be Level 1 because characters in Vengeance are templates. You don't get any benefit from CP, leveling/unlocking skills, or outside gear.
Just make a new character and jump in! Use a PvE character in the correct Class if necessary — it literally doesn't matter what that character has actually done. Surely out of all of those characters slots, everyone has one of each Class.
sure anyone can make a class and has one but i guess what you are missing is alot of people wont participate without their favorite class. Personally i could care less i have 20 slots filled and toons of all makes and models. I"m just looking at how to maximize the server population and small class balances will help. the goal is to have as many players on as possible only makes sense to somewhat balance things.0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »Again missing the point. if players dont like how their class plays they wont play... lower population will be the result.
Nobody is going to like how their character plays..... thats what happens when you completely remove power creep. You can go on the pve forum and say we should reduce crit by 5% and people will want to throw hands.
If you care about pvp at all, you will participate. Otherwise you have no reason to complain about lag or performance in the future.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more7 -
DrGIggles80✭✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
The goal of the test is to see if the server can handle large scale battles with minimal calculations. Since ZOS mentioned they want to bring it back to original population caps which is about 1800 (Source here https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/6533), you class being "pure trash" is not going to matter if you have 400 other players around you making up for your weaknesses.
The biggest feedback I can give ZOS during PTS is better incentives to get players to join, especially for PvE players since the current PvP population is nowhere near 1800. They can't unlock/level alliance skills during the test which is what many of them wanted to do. Quests, skyshards, and fishing is also disabled. A PvEer is not going to care about alliance points as a currency, so I hope ZOS can come up with something before the test to incentivize players to join and stick around for the entire week. It's why I mentioned providing a unique cosmetic and a crown crate upon reaching tier 3 campaign rewards earlier in the thread.
Agreed they need to offer a greater reward than double AP. Especially considering we are due for a mayhem a month or so before this test. Costumes motifs furnishings something tyo draw in the bigger numbers they want.
2 -
Erickson9610✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »Again missing the point. if players dont like how their class plays they wont play... lower population will be the result.DrGIggles80 wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin
After reviewing all of the skill lines in pts I have some concerns. Mainly the whole point is to run this test by removing bloated complicated skills and have only core essentials. While I understand that necro and arc have their stacking systems as some sort of "identity", the skill lines were basically ignoring the whole purpose of the test.
To top it off these two classes have extra buffs needlessly tacked on to some skills that other classes have. A general rule of thumb that should have been followed was that a skills shouldn't have multiple AND statements in them "Does damage AND generates a corpse AND does a dot AND does a debuff AND gives a buff AND does offbalance AND.......AND........AND........."
If a skill is more than a paragraph long, it needs to be simplified.
Also I think it would be best to make sure the status effect system was turned off. I didnt get to check this tonight, but it is essentially added procs on every single action done in the game. Can't be healthy for the server. Probably why phys damage and mag damage didnt have status effects for so long, as they were the most common forms of damage.
There aren't going to be any Necros on during the test anyway if you look at their actual toolkit vs. NB or DK.
Tru lol, NB is going to be cracked, DK is going to be impossible to 1v1 with the pressure, sorc doesnt have a spammable or an ult, arc+necro may only be strong from the sheer number of buffs they get, templar is lol just like on live.PvP has devolved into slow stalemate heavy attack spam, running out of resources before you can finish off your opponent who switched to defense until one person gets bored or makes a mistake. I don't see anyone surviving when fighting outnumbered after these changes since the sustain is just not there, nor is the burst damage.
Class balance is also wayyy off, with necromancer (ironically) and nightblade being a lot stronger than the rest.
Good thing there's BGs, but if this is some long-term direction for PvP in Cyrodiil it just feels like wasted development time.
Yeah atleast tweaking the regen to the point where you can cast 20-30 skills before starting to gas out would be nice.
Balance is obviously not the focus on this, not sure why people are so fixated on the balance for a week long test.
I cannot possibly see this as their longterm direction nor have they ever stated that. I could see them finishing stat standardizations like combining spell and weapon damage or the crits. Then would come class reworks. Before they rework classes I am sure they want to know whether the game can handle one skill being an aoe+dot+effect+debuff+........ Not every skill needs to be paragraphs long to be fun to use. Compare old dizzy swing vs new dizzy swing, I'd much rather the longer cast time knockup. It was especially fun when they fixed the aim check problems before ruining the skill with the terrible offbalance concept.
EDIT: Honestly you should get worried if zos starts really trying to balance these skill lines out.
peopleare focused on balance because the weak classes will not be played, therefore affecting the whole test.
"Weak" classes not being played won't affect the test at all. It doesn't matter what classes are played. It doesn't matter what skills are used. It doesn't matter what siege is used. The only thing that matters is how many people join the test.
it will affect the test due to population being lower. people arent gonna participate if their pvp class is pure trash.
People will still play this campaign during the test, especially since it will offer bonus AP. Further, since characters are replaced with templates, it's incredibly easy to create a Level 1 character of any Class and participate in the Cyrodiil test with full functionality as any other character — and since the most OP Classes for Vengeance are base game, it's highly unlikely that people can't make new characters to do well in the Cyrodiil test.
so your suggesting players need to ake and level a new charchter just to participate in the test. ok...
Make, but not level. You only need to be Level 1 because characters in Vengeance are templates. You don't get any benefit from CP, leveling/unlocking skills, or outside gear.
Just make a new character and jump in! Use a PvE character in the correct Class if necessary — it literally doesn't matter what that character has actually done. Surely out of all of those characters slots, everyone has one of each Class.
sure anyone can make a class and has one but i guess what you are missing is alot of people wont participate without their favorite class. Personally i could care less i have 20 slots filled and toons of all makes and models. I"m just looking at how to maximize the server population and small class balances will help. the goal is to have as many players on as possible only makes sense to somewhat balance things.
That's assuming that most people only main a single character. We just had the Alt Ascension event which encouraged people to make at least one other character of a different Class.
I'm sure most PvP players have multiple characters because the meta changes and the gameplay style between Classes is drastic, and most PvE players (for endgame PvE, that is) have at least an Arcanist, and probably one other character that they started the game with. A lot of people have some reason or another to play multiple characters, even if they prefer sticking to a main character.
That, and people are already being given an incentive to play during the test. Even if your Class isn't the best, you'd still get AP, useful for unlocking Skill Points and getting closer to the Grand Overlord rank.
To devote a lot of time to balancing temporary skills which (likely) won't be used again is a waste of time — only the regular skills should receive balance changes this PTS.PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the EP Templar Khajiit Werewolf
Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).1 -
DrGIggles80✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »Again missing the point. if players dont like how their class plays they wont play... lower population will be the result.
Nobody is going to like how their character plays..... thats what happens when you completely remove power creep. You can go on the pve forum and say we should reduce crit by 5% and people will want to throw hands.
If you care about pvp at all, you will participate. Otherwise you have no reason to complain about lag or performance in the future.
not once did i say i wouldn't participate. Class balance isn't a big deal for me as i play them all. But if we are trying to maximize population, making some classes almost useless is not gonna help that cause not everyone is like me and you. think outside the box. this test needs way more numbers than the pvp community has. Don't expect pve players to come in for a measly double ap and play classes they don't like. It wouldn't take much for zos to fix some of these classes before mid march.. 2 months away..
3 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭DrGIggles80 wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »DrGIggles80 wrote: »Again missing the point. if players dont like how their class plays they wont play... lower population will be the result.
Nobody is going to like how their character plays..... thats what happens when you completely remove power creep. You can go on the pve forum and say we should reduce crit by 5% and people will want to throw hands.
If you care about pvp at all, you will participate. Otherwise you have no reason to complain about lag or performance in the future.
not once did i say i wouldn't participate. Class balance isn't a big deal for me as i play them all. But if we are trying to maximize population, making some classes almost useless is not gonna help that cause not everyone is like me and you. think outside the box. this test needs way more numbers than the pvp community has. Don't expect pve players to come in for a measly double ap and play classes they don't like. It wouldn't take much for zos to fix some of these classes before mid march.. 2 months away..
Yeah AP is basically useless now adays. most pvp players have XX or XXX millions with nothing to spend it on. It really needs pve incentives like undaunted keys, transmutes, arena weapons, mythic leads, food recipe. Like if you participate between 6pm and 9pm on a given day have a special bonus.
Lets be honest the purpose of the test is to form a massive zerg on each faction. Balance doesnt matter in a 100v100 fight. You may as well be screaming/casting into the void at that point.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more3 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Ball groups say hi.MincMincMinc wrote: »Balance doesnt matter in a 100v100 fight.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance3 -
ZOS_KevinCommunity ManagerSo that we can try and get back on track, we checked in with the team for an order of operations for this test, between PTS and the Live test in March. So hopefully this will help and we can get back to the core feedback needed for this portion of the test.- Functionality on the PTS server is first and the goal of that is to make sure we can provide the best play experience when this goes to the live server in March.
- We look at the data from the PTS functionality test to ensure things are working properly for the live test.
- If everything looks good, we move on to the test on the live server.
- After the test on the live server is done, we shut down Vengeance and review the data.
- Next steps will be determined based on the data. Nothing else related to the test will immediately go into the live game, including any Vengeance Class/Skill kits.
- We will share next steps once we evaluate the data.
Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter16 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Ball groups say hi.MincMincMinc wrote: »Balance doesnt matter in a 100v100 fight.
And Vengeance Test 1 hung up on them. Heals need to be targeted. Anything AOE only affects 3 players, and there's no sticky HOTs you can give players as far as I'm aware. Sets are also not allowed. Whatever a coordinated ball group does can be countered by an uncoordinated zerg since there's nothing keeping them immortal.5 -
DrGIggles80✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Ball groups say hi.MincMincMinc wrote: »Balance doesnt matter in a 100v100 fight.
And Vengeance Test 1 hung up on them. Heals need to be targeted. Anything AOE only affects 3 players, and there's no sticky HOTs you can give players as far as I'm aware. Sets are also not allowed. Whatever a coordinated ball group does can be countered by an uncoordinated zerg since there's nothing keeping them immortal. [/quot0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Ball groups say hi.MincMincMinc wrote: »Balance doesnt matter in a 100v100 fight.
Dude even if we brought the game to be only light attacking ball groups will still be an issue. Coordination with no counter to level the playingfield will always be an issue. In no way should they be fixing live server issues for just this test. You are making the mistake of applying current live server issues to a temporary test that doesnt care or wont matter if ball groups form.
If anything it would be ideal to have ball groups during this test, they drive the current lag, so making sure they participate is almost mandatory.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more3 -
Soraka✭✭✭✭✭Hey all, just a reminder to keep the conversation civil and specifically about feedback for the test. We know folks are passionate about the topic and have differing viewpoints, but please remember that we all want the same end result. So keeping the thread to the PTS test feedback and making it easier for the team to read through will be helpful to all.
I think that the struggle (myself included I apologize for that) to stay on topic comes from the general lack of trust many have now in listening to feedback etc.
It would have helped to clarify future direction/intent and address questions before this so we can focus.
Asking the community to go up a rung on the ladder of trust with devs and trust that this "is only a test" (I think we know that, we are worried about what happens after the test) is a lot harder when words and behavior haven't always matched. So the speculation and complaints are coming beforehand because of concern for the future. Just my two cents feedback on communication/trust.
I think a lot of us do want this to be successful AND fun, we just struggle to believe face value now.
On topic:
I noticed once I'm in vengeance Cyro I can't dismiss notifications. At least the daily login one because I can't claim it. It's super distracting.
Edit: thanks Kevin I missed your post while writing my reply
Edited by Soraka on January 22, 2025 9:53PM5 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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In other words, you agree with me that balance in 100v100 matters. It does sound like the balls will drop to a big zerg. Will the big zerg fights be dynamic and fun? Won't know until it goes live. But we do know for sure that zerg players don't like constantly being jumped by cloaking NBs inside zergs, so individual class balance matters too.And Vengeance Test 1 hung up on them. Heals need to be targeted. Anything AOE only affects 3 players, and there's no sticky HOTs you can give players as far as I'm aware. Sets are also not allowed. Whatever a coordinated ball group does can be countered by an uncoordinated zerg since there's nothing keeping them immortal.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance1 -
Kaelthorn_Nightbloom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Vengeance Crystal Shard needs to be instant cast. Otherwise the experience will be miserable because of bash interrupt.
PC NA7 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hey all, just a reminder to keep the conversation civil and specifically about feedback for the test. We know folks are passionate about the topic and have differing viewpoints, but please remember that we all want the same end result. So keeping the thread to the PTS test feedback and making it easier for the team to read through will be helpful to all.
I think that the struggle (myself included I apologize for that) to stay on topic comes from the general lack of trust many have now in listening to feedback etc.
It would have helped to clarify future direction/intent and address questions before this so we can focus.
Asking the community to go up a rung on the ladder of trust with devs and trust that this "is only a test" (I think we know that, we are worried about what happens after the test) is a lot harder when words and behavior haven't always matched. So the speculation and complaints are coming beforehand because of concern for the future. Just my two cents feedback on communication/trust.
I think a lot of us do want this to be successful AND fun, we just struggle to believe face value now.
On topic:
I noticed once I'm in vengeance Cyro I can't dismiss notifications. At least the daily login one because I can't claim it. It's super distracting.
I just dont get what is not clear to people? To take a serious look at this issue zos needs to eliminate the largest avenues first.
Is this a hardware or combat team issue? If the server runs fine with 3x the people, then congrats the combat team can actually do something to help. Otherwise they already spent the money on hardware and are not likely to do it again.
From there, the combat team will have to use the data to compare with live data to see how many players can be on the server with a given skill output.
Considering they are halfway through standardization it would make sense to do a big skill rework at a certain point. We havent had a big one since elsweyr in 2019...... which had gutted alot of loved playstyles in weapon skill lines and some classes. Many skills now adays are bloated to the point of having 6+ passives tied onto them instead of just being an active ability.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
In other words, you agree with me that balance in 100v100 matters. It does sound like the balls will drop to a big zerg. Will the big zerg fights be dynamic and fun? Won't know until it goes live. But we do know for sure that zerg players don't like constantly being jumped by cloaking NBs inside zergs, so individual class balance matters too.And Vengeance Test 1 hung up on them. Heals need to be targeted. Anything AOE only affects 3 players, and there's no sticky HOTs you can give players as far as I'm aware. Sets are also not allowed. Whatever a coordinated ball group does can be countered by an uncoordinated zerg since there's nothing keeping them immortal.
Big zerg was incredibly fun in the old days (I am talking 2018-2019 as that's when I first dabbled in PvP). I could go in not having a clue what I was doing in PvE tank sets and still feel like I was contributing.2 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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I get what they're doing, but it's not a paying gig. The game still needs to be fun.MincMincMinc wrote: »I just dont get what is not clear to people? To take a serious look at this issue zos needs to eliminate the largest avenues first.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance5