Banner Bearer Player entering ring noise makes it unplayable

i11ionward · December 8

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, as a follow up to this, we are still investigating adjustments to reduce the impact of the sound effects of the ability in these cases. As we've delved into the investigation and what is possible, it's become apparent that this will take some time to adjust, test, and implement. Realistically, the work around improving this is going to be included in Update 45 (next year) at the earliest.

The Banner Bearer sound issue is just disgusting.
But what's even more disgusting is that people will have to wait for the next update to fix this issue. I'm very disappointed, this sound issue should never have been released to the live server, but now we have to wait a few more months for it to be fixed. You guys urgently need to do something about the quality of your game, otherwise a lot of people will stop playing it soon.

Pelanora · December 9

There must be a moment in design when somebody appropriately senior finally says to the proposal 'yes it's cool I love it we will do that'. And it rolls into production.

HOW does that happen for things which so obviously, surely, are going to be a negative experience when played at scale, in a trial, over and over...... and then lo, they are a negative experience and we tell you at PTS and then...... nothing.

How is there such a disconnect between final design choices and player experience.

That's what I'm always baffled by.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · December 10

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Why not just turn it off? At least until your testing can be done?

This is fair question and was also the first one we asked when this was first reported. It takes time to push fixes across to completion, between the multiple teams involved, certifications, etc. This isn't something that we are able to hotfix and requires an update. Doing a temp update to effectively undo a fix that is already coming and pivot to another approach would make the actual fix take even longer.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · December 10

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I think the team could perhaps do with re-evaluating how it considers the cost/benefit of fixes, major annoyances and critical combat bugs. IMO it would be better to implement quick fixes for (in most cases) even if that means the eventual fix would take longer.
For example with the banner sound effect example I don't think players would care if a fix to the audio took longer if the 'quick fix' of muting it was implemented quickly.

I don't really think there's many players who would say things like "Man I wish I could be deafened by banner in groups for longer whilst a proper fix was implemented" or "I miss the banner audio I wish it would come back sooner"

Luckily on PC we have Addon devs who can workaround such issues quicker so only console need suffer.
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info3983-QuietBanner.html

Erickson9610 · December 10

I'd rather wait for a stable, more permanent fix than to receive a rushed, temporary hotfix that is itself broken and becomes a low priority to fix in the long run.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · December 10

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'd rather wait for a stable, more permanent fix than to receive a rushed, temporary hotfix that is itself broken and becomes a low priority to fix in the long run.

A fix being of poor quality isn't a factor that should be considered despite being an issue in the past. A temporary fix should still actually be a fix and not break the rest of the skill (this is where QA comes in to assist development).

On this specific issue it is quite confusing as to why it would require the development input of multiple teams, it's not like a new audio is required just a fix to stop the sound replying every time someone enters the radius (I would assume it's doing a check for this combat occurrence and then simply replying the sound in which case the 'reply the sound line' could just be removed without impacting the rest of the skill?), it should only play one on activation/deactivation. Makes me wonder what the team structure is & code state (outside of pushing a fix from the combat team to the QA team). 12 weeks seems a little excessive. One would assume that not playing a sound surely couldn't impact the banner from applying effects to allies...

acastanza_ESO · December 10

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Why not just turn it off? At least until your testing can be done?

This is fair question and was also the first one we asked when this was first reported. It takes time to push fixes across to completion, between the multiple teams involved, certifications, etc. This isn't something that we are able to hotfix and requires an update. Doing a temp update to effectively undo a fix that is already coming and pivot to another approach would make the actual fix take even longer.

Except that we wouldn't care if the actual fix then takes longer because the actual problem that is impairing people's game experience wouldn't exist for that whole time. ZOS's perspective on and process for resolving player's complaints and fixing the issues players actually care about seems to be fundamentally broken. Just completely backwards priorities.

VixxVexx · December 11

A single audiofix requires multiple teams and certifications? Now I understand why PTS always goes live as is.

AtriaKhorist · December 11

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Kyip wrote: »

Sorry to ping you, I'm not sure if quoting you gave a ping or not. Please see my post and the subsequent many, many comments. Plus the 44 entire tabs of discontent on the forum post for this topic. Can we please, please get some help restoring Grim Focus to the way it was visually for the first 10+ years of the game, before the change with Necrom broke it, making it permaglow. The volume of comments show how big an issue this is for the community. If changes will be made to the banners, which can currently be resolved by disabling Effects under Audio, can we please get help for an issue we are unable to fix, the Grim Focus permaglow?

Hey @Kyip! Just wanted let you know we see this question, and we're very aware of the thread. When the feedback about the Grim Focus change first surfaced, we did raise it with the dev team. In the thread, Kevin did pass along the info that we got from the dev team, that this change was intended and not a bug. That said, we've raised it again to see what's possible. Reading back through our responses in the original thread, there may also be an opportunity to elaborate on why we made the change - we're checking with dev on that. (As an aside, many of us are about to be out for Thanksgiving holiday break, so any additional info we can share will likely be the week of Dec. 2.)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Apologies Jessica, but this issue has persisted for well over a year. The thread is filled to the brim with evidence that this is in no way intended, no matter what reasoning the devs bring up. It comes with several botched resulting problems, fulfills zero immersive or gameplay value and has made a lot of of people angry - especially in light of moderative action and the sheer lack of communication over a year between two 'I can check with devs' and 'dev said this is intended'. Even your statement speaks of last week already.

People feel like they're not taken seriously and that their concerns are dismissed by a statement observably not true, or worse, they feel silenced. I believe that this is not your intent, and I realize you have the thankless job of the messenger, but it is how it comes across far too often.

Laying out a reason will see that reason dismantled in short order - quite possibly by directly referencing what many have already said over the course of more than a year.

What needs to happen is a fix, not a doomed attempt at gaslighting us into believing it needs to be this way.

Wuduwasa13 · December 11

All this could have been avoided had someone competent who actually plays the game in any meaningful way been involved in the design & implementation process.

I dread to imagine what the future holds for skill sound effects, emergency service vehicle sirens? Ear-splitting sonar? Jumbo jet engine roars?

robpr · December 11

Wuduwasa13 wrote: »

All this could have been avoided had someone competent who actually plays the game in any meaningful way been involved in the design & implementation process.

I dread to imagine what the future holds for skill sound effects, emergency service vehicle sirens? Ear-splitting sonar? Jumbo jet engine roars?

More Tarnished Nightmare procs.

Kyip · December 12

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Kyip wrote: »

Sorry to ping you, I'm not sure if quoting you gave a ping or not. Please see my post and the subsequent many, many comments. Plus the 44 entire tabs of discontent on the forum post for this topic. Can we please, please get some help restoring Grim Focus to the way it was visually for the first 10+ years of the game, before the change with Necrom broke it, making it permaglow. The volume of comments show how big an issue this is for the community. If changes will be made to the banners, which can currently be resolved by disabling Effects under Audio, can we please get help for an issue we are unable to fix, the Grim Focus permaglow?

Hey @Kyip! Just wanted let you know we see this question, and we're very aware of the thread. When the feedback about the Grim Focus change first surfaced, we did raise it with the dev team. In the thread, Kevin did pass along the info that we got from the dev team, that this change was intended and not a bug. That said, we've raised it again to see what's possible. Reading back through our responses in the original thread, there may also be an opportunity to elaborate on why we made the change - we're checking with dev on that. (As an aside, many of us are about to be out for Thanksgiving holiday break, so any additional info we can share will likely be the week of Dec. 2.)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Apologies Jessica, but this issue has persisted for well over a year. The thread is filled to the brim with evidence that this is in no way intended, no matter what reasoning the devs bring up. It comes with several botched resulting problems, fulfills zero immersive or gameplay value and has made a lot of of people angry - especially in light of moderative action and the sheer lack of communication over a year between two 'I can check with devs' and 'dev said this is intended'. Even your statement speaks of last week already.

People feel like they're not taken seriously and that their concerns are dismissed by a statement observably not true, or worse, they feel silenced. I believe that this is not your intent, and I realize you have the thankless job of the messenger, but it is how it comes across far too often.

Laying out a reason will see that reason dismantled in short order - quite possibly by directly referencing what many have already said over the course of more than a year.

What needs to happen is a fix, not a doomed attempt at gaslighting us into believing it needs to be this way.

This, 100%.