LaintalAy wrote: »

Trophies are for home use.
For out-and-about:
https://nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/6903

Bosmer skin is softer, so I've heard

...Although the Bosmer using every part of the dead doesn't seem that gruesome to me somehow. It's their culture, and in case of eating grandma or making a stool out of some other relative's bones, it's even consensual.

Who knows, if I played a traditional Green Pact Bosmer, I might even appreciate hanging random stuffed heads on my walls - after I've eaten the rest.

It just doesn't fit most characters I play (which is usually not the tiny cannibal wearing a loincloth made of a dead squirrel, or whatever Bosmer wear nowadays).

My characters have all killed many times just to pick a flower. I'm kind of surprised one of them hasn't turned the skulls into flower pots so they can grow their own instead of running across the continent looking for flowers.

Syldras wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

I'd rather see the mounted head of a bad guy than that of an innocent deer...

So your ESO characters are all vegetarians? Or do they just throw away the heads of the animals they eat?

We would fast run out of space if we put the head of every animal we ate on our walls.

SilverBride wrote: »

We would fast run out of space if we put the head of every animal we ate on our walls.

The thing I was about is that if a character kills animals for meat, I see no problem in also hanging a trophy of said animals on the wall. The animal is dead anyway, and from my perspective, it's better to use as much as possible from it instead of wasting parts (which doesn't apply to trophies only, of course - in a medieval setting it would also be bone, hair, leather/pelt, fat and sinews that are useful materials for crafting).

SilverBride wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We would fast run out of space if we put the head of every animal we ate on our walls.

The thing I was about is that if a character kills animals for meat, I see no problem in also hanging a trophy of said animals on the wall. The animal is dead anyway, and from my perspective, it's better to use as much as possible from it instead of wasting parts (which doesn't apply to trophies only, of course - in a medieval setting it would also be bone, hair, leather/pelt, fat and sinews that are useful materials for crafting).

If that is what someone wants to do then that is their prerogative, but it is not wrong for others to have a different personal view, in real life or in their game life.

Absolutely true.

I'd like to point out, to those using existing violence in ESO as justification, that most of the killing or morally objectionable deeds one does in ESO quests (outside of the DB) are usually carried out for a greater benefit, like saving lives. They can be argued as a necessary evil.

Decapitating your enemies and displaying their heads as trophies, however, is completely unnecessary, and implies the action is done for pleasure. They're not equivalent to me.

I agree with OP's point, though I don't like any heads on my walls, human or otherwise. Masks are fine obviously.

BretonMage wrote: »

I'd like to point out, to those using existing violence in ESO as justification, that most of the killing or morally objectionable deeds one does in ESO quests (outside of the DB) are usually carried out for a greater benefit, like saving lives. They can be argued as a necessary evil.

Decapitating your enemies and displaying their heads as trophies, however, is completely unnecessary, and implies the action is done for pleasure. They're not equivalent to me.

I agree with OP's point, though I don't like any heads on my walls, human or otherwise. Masks are fine obviously.

I'm not sure if most the killing is for greater benefit. Much of it is just picking a side. Someone stole my families land or crest or whatever can you go get it back and while you are there kill everybody on your way by? Sure, no problem, I'm not even going to ask for proof what you tell me is true.
My characters have done a lot of killing so they may some day get a really cool mount with endeavors. And I have no idea how many ogres my main killed trying to get a toe ring. It was in the 100s. Some magic keeps bringing them back so we don't feel real bad about all the killing. My main did accidently kill a fox though and we both felt a little bummed about that.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Well, my characters (for the most part) only kill when attacked, and the bosses in the group dungeons are most definitely attacking her. Those are the only ones of which there are trophies. So they aren’t innocents for sure. Perhaps others would justify it similarly.

I mean, it's you who are the intruder in their sinister cult / evil cabal / world-ending ritual / barbaric lair, they're just defending their property. You could have left as soon as you saw the locals being hostile. Instead, you are the one who attacked them. ;⁠-⁠)

spartaxoxo wrote: »

So, I just think it's worth pointing out, as someone could have a very good reason for drawing certain lines with two things that might share superficial similarities.

Agreed.

But the core of this argument is not where one draws his lines or even why. It's the fact that this is a choice based on ones individual morals. That everyone gets the same choice.

And in arguing to take away the choice by removing human trophies from the game entirely, one infringes on the rights of all other players.
At least that is how I see it.

@prof-dracko

prof-dracko wrote: »

I'm going to list all of the trophies taken from an enemy that could be considered sentient and suggest an alternative or alteration from the dungeon. For the sake of argument I'll exclude anything undead, even if they were once human, since they're prolonged artificially and essentially monsters and Daedra since they can't truly die permanently, so displaying the husk they used to inhabit is more or less fine.
Oathsworn Pit: Could have been a vine-tangled axe representing Anthelmir's Construct
Earthen Root: Corruption of Root
March of Sacrifices: Tachyr (you know, the thing you were hunting. That you take a heart from. AS A TROPHY!)
Moongrave Fane: Kujo Kethba the gargoyle
Depths of Malatar: Should have been Narilmoor's transformed form
Castle Thorn: Vaduroth the Wraith-of-Crows
Kyne's Aegis: Captain Vrol's helm on a plinth
Icereach: Stormborn Revenant
Red Petal Bastion: Prior Thierric's helm and chest plate on a stand
Scalecaller Peak: Either make it clear that it's just Zaan's mask taken as a trophy or even Spellbreaker on a plaque
Moon Hunter Keep: Vykosa's pauldrons?
Cloudrest: Z'Maja's amulet

Thanks for taking the time to make a constructive suggestion (it's a pity it's completely ignored, because this could be a good base for a discussion)!

I'd personally say it wouldn't even have to be a part of the enemy directly, but it could also be an important item from the dungeon. Although I'm not surprised that ZOS goes for the most obvious thing - the face - of the enemy, because everything else would probably be too subtle or so, and ESO doesn't really go for subtlety, also in other aspects of the game (there have been enough discussions about them relying on absolute clichés when it comes to creating npcs, for example).

It's a bit tiring that this whole discussion always sways back to the assumption that people who don't want a severed head on their wall were weak, babies, or whatever (and sorry, framing other people as weak for not finding gory things appealing, or emphasizing how much violence one could enjoy, as if this would be an important value for a person, always sounds very "caveman" to me). Especially if they completely seem to fail to understand (or maybe they don't want to understand) that it's not about not being able to look at violence, but just a matter of personal taste; and that for some, a severed head feels more "insane mass murderer", "wild cannibal tribe" or just "rustic" than they personally find appealing - or find fitting for the characters they play (I've written it somewhere before: for roleplayers, it makes a difference whether they play a sophisticated Altmer wizard who lives in a mansion in Alinor, or a brute-ish orc hunter, or a Bosmer cannibal living in a very primal community - and this also shows accordingly in how they decorate their character's homes). So they'd wish for something different, or rather more choices or a bigger variety of different trophies in the future, because a severed head as decoration just doesn't fit everyone.