Trophies made from human heads

Parasaurolophus · August 1

It's cool when it's all sorts of monsters and other creatures. Right? But for the love of all the gods, what is this?

Trophies made of human heads, you made trophies of human heads. I've never seen such ultra-violence in games.

prof-dracko · August 1

I brought this up way back when Red Petal was added. It felt weird and unnecessary. Then they stopped for a while until this new elf. I mean he's not even the monster set for the dungeon.

Even though it's been going on for a while, with Zaan, the Icereach witch, Grundwulf, the Dragonstar champion, they could all just be excused as being hollow armour or masks. Then there's the two werewolves which are unarguably sentient creatures.

I know some people like it, but it just feels icky to me. They were creative in the past with Stonekeeper's arm being the trophy, and even recently with Tho'at's sword. Why not break tradition a little and make the trophy something more unconventional if the best alternative is just a dude's head on a plank?

Julia_Nix · August 1

Desiato · August 1

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Trophies made of human heads, you made trophies of human heads. I've never seen such ultra-violence in games.

In Rust you can make named trophies from the skulls of other players -- which are obtained from harvesting their dead bodies for meat, fat (for low grade fuel) and bones...

Scaletho · August 1

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

It's cool when it's all sorts of monsters and other creatures. Right? But for the love of all the gods, what is this?

Trophies made of human heads, you made trophies of human heads. I've never seen such ultra-violence in games.

All these trophies stuff seem VERY DISGUSTING. They should be removed and substituted by really beautiful rewards instead. Use those horrible "trophies" in a wall is borderline symbolic of real animal cruelty.

Artim_X · August 1

It's a fantasy role-playing game made for adults... although I do prefer the monsters, I personally love the undaunted trophies inclusion in the game.

One can also get the more socially appropriate bronze busts by completing content on vet difficulty. Housing is endgame!

Syldras · August 1

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

It's cool when it's all sorts of monsters and other creatures. Right? But for the love of all the gods, what is this?

Have you tried eating it? It's probably made of wax anyway.

Scaletho wrote: »

All these trophies stuff seem VERY DISGUSTING. They should be removed and substituted by really beautiful rewards instead. Use those horrible "trophies" in a wall is borderline symbolic of real animal cruelty.

It probably comes down to cultural differences. In some countries, hunting for sport is common and considered a normal hobby, in others, it's considered barbaric (or a hobby of old-fashioned degenerate nobles) and frowned upon.

Although I don't think that today's real world matters when it comes to ESO - and considering the pseudo-"medieval" setting, having hunting trophies does seem reasonable to me. That is, when it comes to animals or monsters. That's a common medieval fantasy trope.

Mounting human heads on the wall rather isn't, even if human heads as trophies have existed in the history of mankind (everywhere - not only the native headhunters of Melanesia that people might have heard of). Actually, it still happened as part of war crimes (including of Western nations) within the last 50 years, which makes it especially unsavory.

freespirit · August 1

Sorry guys but now I want to go see if I can place one of these on a "corpse burned, seated"

Soarora · August 1

The first two have Daedric afflictions and thus mounting their heads may be seen as more socially acceptable. RPB, all the bosses are humans so I understand it being a person. The head feels eerie but to me it reads more as a wax figure than an actual head. After all, the head would decay. This is a mature fantasy game series (though I feel ZOS forgets this sometimes), if you have problems with mounting human heads you’re going to have far worse problems when you learn about the lore— such as Sanguine, Molag Bal, the curse of the Falmer, Meridia’s distaste for free will…

Syldras · August 1

Soarora wrote: »

The head feels eerie but to me it reads more as a wax figure than an actual head. After all, the head would decay.

In the real world, there are many different methods of preservation. It wouldn't matter whether the chunk of flesh (sorry!) is a human's or a pig's, for example. In Tamriel, also magic could be used.

Soarora wrote: »

This is a mature fantasy game series (though I feel ZOS forgets this sometimes), if you have problems with mounting human heads you’re going to have far worse problems when you learn about the lore— such as Sanguine, Molag Bal, the curse of the Falmer, Meridia’s distaste for free will…

I personally have no problem with the lore at all, but I see a difference whether atrocities happen in lore or are committed by npcs, or whether the player character is supposed to participate in them (which also seems a little implausible considering that the player character is usually the morally good hero type helping random people - there's no other way to solve most quests).

Well, personally I'm not that much bothered by these trophies, to be honest, because I normally don't use them anyway (I find them ugly), but I can understand that some players might find it off-putting or of bad taste and wish they would rather get something less debatable as a reward for a dungeon completion.

belial5221_ESO · August 1

You play a game killing,stealing,lying to,and more to humans,there's corpses and stuff all over in palces,yet you have an issue with a head on a plaque,lol.Other RPGs have similar things.Maybe choose another genre of game to play if you offended by a head,and not any of the other immoral things lol.

SilverBride · August 1

They aren't human heads. They are replicas of evil bosses that we defeated. I'd rather see this than the head of an innocent deer hanging on my wall.

Parasaurolophus · August 1

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

You play a game killing,stealing,lying to,and more to humans,there's corpses and stuff all over in palces,yet you have an issue with a head on a plaque,lol.Other RPGs have similar things.Maybe choose another genre of game to play if you offended by a head,and not any of the other immoral things lol.

Of course yes. But to make stuffed humans you have to be a really terrible maniac.

El_Borracho · August 1

Its a video game where in order to earn that trophy I slaughtered several dozen of those humans to earn that head. I can live with it.

Wait until OP gets to Bal Sunnar where the human boss pukes all over you. Or The Cauldron where a boss farts on the group.

darvaria · August 1

Actually I don't like the killing of wild life in this game. We have a lot of humanoid bosses in game. IMO, everything should be a fictional representation of something not human or animal.

The one that really bothers me is the killing of Tarcyr in March of Sacrifice. I can't stand the entire concept of this dungeon.

And yeah, the stealing and blade of woe. I make sure none of my rl friends or relatives play this game. The violence is staggering. Maybe fantasy should remain as "fantasy", not realistic representations.

Syldras · August 1

SilverBride wrote: »

They aren't human heads. They are replicas of evil bosses that we defeated. I'd rather see this than the head of an innocent deer hanging on my wall.

At least the rest of the deer was probably eaten, which cannot be said about the boss. Unless one's playing a Bosmer, of course

But seriously, I do think it's possible to consider these things a replica. Although I'm still not sure why one would mount that on a wooden plate and decorate one's home with it. Not sure if I wanted to stare at random_meanie_#12's head while having dinner or trying to fall asleep.

Soarora · August 1

Syldras wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

The head feels eerie but to me it reads more as a wax figure than an actual head. After all, the head would decay.

In the real world, there are many different methods of preservation. It wouldn't matter whether the chunk of flesh (sorry!) is a human's or a pig's, for example. In Tamriel, also magic could be used.

Soarora wrote: »

This is a mature fantasy game series (though I feel ZOS forgets this sometimes), if you have problems with mounting human heads you’re going to have far worse problems when you learn about the lore— such as Sanguine, Molag Bal, the curse of the Falmer, Meridia’s distaste for free will…

I personally have no problem with the lore at all, but I see a difference whether atrocities happen in lore or are committed by npcs, or whether the player character is supposed to participate in them (which also seems a little implausible considering that the player character is usually the morally good hero type helping random people - there's no other way to solve most quests).

Well, personally I'm not that much bothered by these trophies, to be honest, because I normally don't use them anyway (I find them ugly), but I can understand that some players might find it off-putting or of bad taste and wish they would rather get something less debatable as a reward for a dungeon completion.

True, though either way, my brain insists it's a wax figure haha. Can go either way though! And to be fair, I think lore-wise the people doing dungeons and trials are the Undaunted and I'm not sure if they can be considered flat out morally good. I'm sure a few of them would have no qualms about beheading their enemy and sticking it on their fireplace. My player characters certainly are all morally questionable in one way or another. I tend to use the other heads more though, unless I'm just trying to show them all or fill a bookshelf. Really, looking at all the heads, a lot more of them than just those 3 are people. Dragons are sentient people, Daedra are sentient people, Z'maja's a sentient person...

darvaria wrote: »

Actually I don't like the killing of wild life in this game. We have a lot of humanoid bosses in game. IMO, everything should be a fictional representation of something not human or animal.

The one that really bothers me is the killing of Tarcyr in March of Sacrifice. I can't stand the entire concept of this dungeon.

And yeah, the stealing and blade of woe. I make sure none of my rl friends or relatives play this game. The violence is staggering. Maybe fantasy should remain as "fantasy", not realistic representations.

March of Sacrifices takes you through a Hunt. Hircine's entire thing is the Predator-Prey dynamic however unlike with real life hunting, the Prey is completely able to become the Predator. This is why he is typically shown as a deer-man. Teams of lycanthropes fight for Tarcyr's heart to give to Hircine for a boon, but Tarcyr is still able to kill you.

SilverBride · August 1

Syldras wrote: »

I'm still not sure why one would mount that on a wooden plate and decorate one's home with it.

That's a good point. I have some scattered around some of my houses but I think I will remove them now that I have a structure built specifically for displaying trophies and busts at Coldharbour Surreal Estate.

LaintalAy · August 1

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

You play a game killing,stealing,lying to,and more to humans,there's corpses and stuff all over in palces,yet you have an issue with a head on a plaque,lol.Other RPGs have similar things.Maybe choose another genre of game to play if you offended by a head,and not any of the other immoral things lol.

Yes the standard has been doubled.

Technically, all the characters are elves, are they not? None are actually human; humans don't have magic available. it's reasonable to have human-like enemies and that's what the busts are about: enemies defeated...

There's no problem with ganking, which is far more troubling from a psychological perspective.

There's age-appropriate warnings and classifications.

Scaletho wrote: »

All these trophies stuff seem VERY DISGUSTING. They should be removed and substituted by really beautiful rewards instead. Use those horrible "trophies" in a wall is borderline symbolic of real animal cruelty.

There are cats and dogs in the game that are unkillable, yet cats should be banned:
https://australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2022/02/a-diabolical-problem-needing-radical-answers-when-cats-are-not-so-cute/

The real animal cruelty is owing cats in the first place (I grew up in a house full of them).

Its_MySniff · August 1

With all due respect, some of you should keep your personal feelings and beliefs out of the game. It's not real and represents nothing but finishing a dungeon. What's next, people gluten intolerant complaining about bread in game. Enjoy and let go. Cheers.

Soarora · August 1

LaintalAy wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

You play a game killing,stealing,lying to,and more to humans,there's corpses and stuff all over in palces,yet you have an issue with a head on a plaque,lol.Other RPGs have similar things.Maybe choose another genre of game to play if you offended by a head,and not any of the other immoral things lol.

Yes the standard has been doubled.

Technically, all the characters are elves, are they not? None are actually human; humans don't have magic available. it's reasonable to have human-like enemies and that's what the busts are about: enemies defeated...

There's no problem with ganking, which is far more troubling from a psychological perspective.

There's age-appropriate warnings and classifications.

Huh? There are humans in that there are "human" races, "elf" races, "beastfolk" races, and other. Bretons are considered a human race and are based on real life humans of a specific region and yet they are incredibly magically inclined. Prior Therric is a Breton.

SilverBride · August 1

Its_MySniff wrote: »

With all due respect, some of you should keep your personal feelings and beliefs out of the game. It's not real and represents nothing but finishing a dungeon. What's next, people gluten intolerant complaining about bread in game. Enjoy and let go. Cheers.

No one is complaing or asking that these trophies be removed from the game because of their personal preference. But there is nothing wrong with vocalizing our, and our character's, beliefs and value systems.

Syldras · August 1

Soarora wrote: »

Really, looking at all the heads, a lot more of them than just those 3 are people. Dragons are sentient people, Daedra are sentient people, Z'maja's a sentient person...

I think many people like to overlook that if the creature looks like an animal or monster, which is certainly the case with a sload, even if they are considered to be highly intelligent and skilled wizards.

All those daedric trophies are quite strange, by the way, considering that they normally should just vanish to be re-formed in the waters of Oblivion (although there's a part in lore saying that sometimes, something physical remains, for unknown reasons). Although the weirdest thing for me is Iceheart. Shouldn't it melt?

BretonMage · August 1

Its_MySniff wrote: »

With all due respect, some of you should keep your personal feelings and beliefs out of the game. It's not real and represents nothing but finishing a dungeon. What's next, people gluten intolerant complaining about bread in game. Enjoy and let go. Cheers.

It's also a personal belief that commemoration of violence with dismembered body parts is acceptable.

And if it represents nothing, then I would like the trophy to look at least somewhat aesthetic, instead of a gruesome head.

Its_MySniff · August 1

I didn't say no one could speak out or voice opinions. I implied it to be a bit silly is all. By all means, share your values.

virtus753 · August 1

There’s a long history of people using humans and their remains as trophies: drinking out of skull cups, Ashurbanipal having his Dinner Party with a head hanging from a tree nearby (in a relief now at the British Museum for those interested), Shapur I displaying the skin of Valerian as a trophy in a temple after having used him for footstool service…

Even the more famous forms of trophy display do this in spirit: in classical antiquity armor was treated as a second skin and was used as the socially acceptable form of the body for trophy purposes. It was arranged and displayed in a human shape to represent the defeated. There are even references in Greek texts specifically to trophies made out of armor still considered to house their owners’ spirits long after death. And of course the line in the Aeneid where Aeneas uses Mezentius’s armor to make a trophy and implies that the trophy, not the body, is the real Mezentius.

In ESO we also have another type of body part trophy in the monster heads, where we take the most recognizable piece of the defeated and add it to our own power, just like Hercules did with his lion skin and arrows. Headhunting is an epic form of trophy-taking and has in many cultures been a key element in the construction of power and identity. (Although it certainly isn’t limited to the realm of fantasy and other areas in which the cultural imagination dominates reality.) Is wearing the head any more or less acceptable than displaying it? Does it only depend on whether that head is recognizably human and to what extent it may be dehumanized, e.g. through association with non-human powers like Daedra? (These answers will vary by person.)

If the trophy heads are not to one’s taste, the vet busts offer a type of trophy that may be more palatable.

Necrotech_Master · August 1

in my opinion its a fantasy game that has no impact or consequences on real life, so i see nothing wrong with the undaunted trophies as they are, you are mounting the heads of your enemies on the wall, thats it

not all "bad things" are actual monsters

ESO_player123 · August 1

SilverBride wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I'm still not sure why one would mount that on a wooden plate and decorate one's home with it.

That's a good point. I have some scattered around some of my houses but I think I will remove them now that I have a structure built specifically for displaying trophies and busts at Coldharbour Surreal Estate.

I tried doing that in the Antiquarian's Alpine gallery. I placed a lot of them on the walls on the second floor but hit the limit much faster that I expected since the trophies are not traditional furnishings (I did not realize that when I started). So, I kind of abandoned that idea.

Syldras · August 1

virtus753 wrote: »

There’s a long history of people using humans and their remains as trophies: drinking out of skull cups, Ashurbanipal having his Dinner Party with a head hanging from a tree nearby (in a relief now at the British Museum for those interested), Shapur I displaying the skin of Valerian as a trophy in a temple after having used him for footstool service…

And it continued until modern times. There's a whole very extensive wikipedia article on headhunting, btw, in case anyone wants a fast historical overview.

virtus753 wrote: »

In ESO we also have another type of body part trophy in the monster heads, where we take the most recognizable piece of the defeated and add it to our own power, just like Hercules did with his lion skin and arrows.

Although that's your personal interpretation, to be fair. There's no such tradition or belief mentioned anywhere in TES' lore. Or maybe there's something about a transfer of power by consuming enemies within Bosmer culture? I'm not sure about that, but most Tamrielic cultures don't have something like that. There, a trophy is, at most, a display of your talent as a fighter, and a souvenir from a battle. No spiritual background to that.

SilverBride · August 1

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I'm still not sure why one would mount that on a wooden plate and decorate one's home with it.

That's a good point. I have some scattered around some of my houses but I think I will remove them now that I have a structure built specifically for displaying trophies and busts at Coldharbour Surreal Estate.

I tried doing that in the Antiquarian's Alpine gallery. I placed a lot of them on the walls on the second floor but hit the limit much faster that I expected since the trophies are not traditional furnishings (I did not realize that when I started). So, I kind of abandoned that idea.

I haven't reached the limit yet and as slow as I am completing the DLC veteran dungeons I think it will take awhile before I do. I still don't have any veteran trial busts yet, either... just the trophies.

They really should increase the limit on these so we can display them all in one place.

ESO_player123 · August 1

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I'm still not sure why one would mount that on a wooden plate and decorate one's home with it.

That's a good point. I have some scattered around some of my houses but I think I will remove them now that I have a structure built specifically for displaying trophies and busts at Coldharbour Surreal Estate.

I tried doing that in the Antiquarian's Alpine gallery. I placed a lot of them on the walls on the second floor but hit the limit much faster that I expected since the trophies are not traditional furnishings (I did not realize that when I started). So, I kind of abandoned that idea.

I haven't reach the limit yet and as slow as I am completing the DLC veteran dungeons I think it will take awhile before I do. I still don't have any veteran trial busts yet, either... just the trophies.

They really should increase the limit on these so we can display them all in one place.

Well, I was not going for the busts. I have some, but I generally I do not like them. I prefer the wall trophies (not the human heads) and wanted to fill the walls with them. The limit is simply not high enough to place everything I wanted.