Wereswan wrote: »

Nobody is queuing their non-DD alts in the DD queue for the thrill of sitting in the queue forever. [...] "Bad" and "fake" are not the same; a fake role is someone queuing as the wrong role who has no intention of performing that role. Bad DPS players are still trying to DPS, even if they're failing miserably in the process.

Fake support skip the queue to get in the dungeon faster.
Fake DD skip the learning process to get in the dungeon faster.

Is someone puting 90% of his points in defence trying to be a damage dealer ?
Is someone with 90% of his points in defence a damage dealer ?
Is someone with 90% of his points in nothing and 10% in damage a damage dealer ?
If i unslot the taunt from my tank and queue as DD, am i a real DD ?

You just assume everyone is a DD by default and then changes in to heal or tank but you start as nothing or solo role and then need to build for groupplay heal, tank or DD. You'r not allready a DD when you come out of the tutorial.

And the problem with fake DD's is not that there bad but trying, it's that there NOT trying. It's an MMO! Join a guild or ask in zone chat "I want to be a DD and do [Dungeon X] (Veteran), is [Gear A] and [Gear B] good for that?". It's not hard and if you cant do that, DD = Dumb Dumb.

I have attempted to teached many players new to PVE and most just dont want to improve even a bit. When they see getting good dps requiers more than spamming the same DOT they are gone. When i tell them they need to take off there golded out missmatched overland gear without even e single 2piece bonus and put on some purple gear i crafted... they call me crazy and put me on ignore.

Same with mechanics. Someone cant play mechanics and group wants to kick him ? They allways say "How am i suposed to learn when i allways get a kick?". So i inv them as firend and tell them we can do the dungeon later with my guildmates they can learn everything on there own pace. And they call me a hero "Finaly someone who is not just an elitist and teches new players! Your so awsome! Thanks so much!!!". 30min later... i inv them to group... its me (healer) + Tank from guild and new DD...
DD: "Where is second DD ? I cant kill the boss alone XD"
Me: "We are here to learn mechanics, remember ? cant do that if boss is dead. We can kill him when you can play the mechanics 7/10 times."
System: DD left the group !
System: DD added you to ignorelist !

Or

DD: "Im actually a PVP player XD. I just need the helmet XD"
Me: "Yea i get that! . Here is a deal: If you beat my out of date PVP char that i made but never realy played 2/3 times in a 1v1, i carry you for any dungeon or raid you want all evening!"
System: DD left the group !
System: DD added you to ignorelist !

Same with Raids:
DD: "How am i suposed to learn when i allways get a kick?"
Me: "I can inv you to beginner guild where you can learn."
DD: "Im allready in 5 guilds and dont want to leave :-("
Me: "Np! I talk with raid lead he will inv you without joining the guild"
DD: "Oh i dont have time on Friday what a shame!!!"
Me: "Np! I talk with all the raid leaders i know and you can join any raid any day! "
DD: "Well thing is, i dont know when i can play so i might get late or have to leave early"
Me: "Thats no problem at all ! People do this all the time and there are allways free slots filled up by exp. playsers! Just log in and if a raid is going /w raid lead and a fill in exp. Player will make space for you. If you need to go he will fill in again or they just play 1 player short its all fine! "
System: DD left the group !
System: DD added you to ignorelist !

Here is what bad DD's look like:
- Port to guildhouse to craft gear, mundus etc. everything is there.
- spent 15-30 min learning to stand in front of healer, blockcasting, simple rotation 1-2-3-4-4-4-4-4-4.
- do vet DLC dungeon in ~60 min for helmet. ( No carry!)

But yea... why spend 30 min learning the game when you can wipe 30 min at the first boss just to get a kick and waste everyones time in the process.
Its just ridiculous and unnecessary and has nothing to do with justifying fake support or picking on bad/ new players.
Its all about players having limited amount of free time and other players deliberately wasting that time.

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

A fake is anything that is no authentic. Your issue with fake healers and tanks may be them taking up a slot in the queue. But it is not required for it to be everyone's issue.

A fake tank is someone not built for handling aggro.

A fake healer is someone not built for healing others.

A fake DPS is someone not built for dealing significant damage.


Fake DPS are a primary cause of the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue. They make vet dungeons miserable for real support roles. So, such players exit the queue entirely.

Nope, not buying it; the "you don't need a healer/tank" talking point wouldn't even exist if people weren't doing it to selfishly beat the queue.

I made no such claim otherwise.

Tanks and Supports leave the queue because of fake DPS. And if you don't think that's true, then just actually read what support players have to say. Because the real ones have quit randoms in droves because of fake DPS.

Well this healer doesn't. I help players not matter their skill level do their best. I think that's what a support role is all about.

A fake tank in a dungeon that really needs one can cause a group to fail, but I try to support them even then.

I had that idea when I thought it would be people every now and then. But when it was every other run, it got to be truly miserable. Eventually, I quit trying to be a vet dungeon tank. It just wasn't worth the time and annoyance.

And most of them did not want to get better. Their attitude was "I don't care about being an elitist DPS" and it's not like anyone was suggesting that. I haven't made a serious effort again in years. And I'm far from the only player that quit tanking entirely over it.

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

A fake is anything that is no authentic. Your issue with fake healers and tanks may be them taking up a slot in the queue. But it is not required for it to be everyone's issue.

A fake tank is someone not built for handling aggro.

A fake healer is someone not built for healing others.

A fake DPS is someone not built for dealing significant damage.


Fake DPS are a primary cause of the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue. They make vet dungeons miserable for real support roles. So, such players exit the queue entirely.

Nope, not buying it; the "you don't need a healer/tank" talking point wouldn't even exist if people weren't doing it to selfishly beat the queue.

I made no such claim otherwise.

Tanks and Supports leave the queue because of fake DPS. And if you don't think that's true, then just actually read what support players have to say. Because the real ones have quit randoms in droves because of fake DPS.

Well this healer doesn't. I help players not matter their skill level do their best. I think that's what a support role is all about.

A fake tank in a dungeon that really needs one can cause a group to fail, but I try to support them even then.

I had that idea when I thought it would be people every now and then. But when it was every other run, it got to be truly miserable. Eventually, I quit trying to be a vet dungeon tank. It just wasn't worth the time and annoyance.

And most of them did not want to get better. Their attitude was "I don't care about being an elitist DPS" and it's not like anyone was suggesting that. I haven't made a serious effort again in years. And I'm far from the only player that quit tanking entirely over it.

Fair enough. I get that bad dps just like fake support roles can ruin dungeons.

And doesn't recognize right answer when told is pretty bad. It irritates me too. When the rest of the party just tries to power thru the mechanics.

I honestly don't know what the answer is, but understand the pain. I do.

IDK the right answer. But I wish ZOS could recognize that the current situation hurts all players and not just support roles.

Because this is how my ESO dungeon journey went

I want to DPS

DPS queues are so long, I'll just make a real tank instead.

Fake DPS ruins dungeons. No, I can't just offer to help. They don't want to learn. They don't care about "sweaty" "elitist" DPS. I don't even want that, just enough to clear mechs without tons of stress.

Quit trying to be a real tank

Enter RND as a "fake" tank. However, unlike some jerks, I do slot a taunt. It's just incredibly rude not to taunt imo. I understand some would not consider me a fake since I have a taunt.

And I'm not alone on that.

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

What about the very lacking 10k DD who queues for vet (for their own benefit - mask because entitled or style page farm) and costs the rest of the group time and frustration at their lack of ability to fulfill their role (50% of the damage role)?