Whats up with all these fake dps lately

blktauna

EF321 wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

There is no such thing as fake dps, just bad dps. Stop with this trolling nonsense.

Random veteran dungeon, 40k SnB and taunting boss with puncture. That is fake DPS in my book.

What's the problem if she doesn't die from mechanic?

I queued as a real tank. Not fake. They are stealing my primary function and not doing theirs.

I must admit many years ago when a freshfaced youth I accidentally did this and the tank rage quit. I had zero idea the only skill I had at the moment taunted. Had they said' what are you doing? dont use that skill it interferes with whats going on', then it would have been better. Fortunately one of the other folks in group said something and I changed weapons. Granted this was not in vet but there's zero in game instruction on this and I've discovered a number of completely clueless newish people in dungeons who are grateful for explaination.

There should really be a dungeon tutorial. I mean you get one as a vampire and I assume as a werewolf, why is there no explaination for something so central to the ESO experience?

TheDarkRuler

Every one struggling with DPS and being unable to rota should just try Heavy Attack build with Orders Wrath and Sergeants Mail. Still deals more than enough dmg for all veteran content.

katanagirl1

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I was pleasantly surprised that players at the Mirrormoor incursions know to bash the guy with the spinny flames over his head who is shooting out fireballs that are quite devastating to everyone in the area. Gg.

That is because we do have mobs using this sort of skill quite often ingame and if players are bombarded with a certain thing, they - in most cases - are able to learn how to work/counter it.

Plenty of times I have run pledges and I have had to be the one who has to bash the bosses each time because no one else does.

notyuu

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Every one struggling with DPS and being unable to rota should just try Heavy Attack build with Orders Wrath and Sergeants Mail. Still deals more than enough dmg for all veteran content.

That would imply they are not ignorant of such options, but given most of them can't even be bothered to read tool tips for skills what hope do they have of figuring out what a HA attack build is, let alone gear sets and mythics

ZDunlain

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

Lately, i see many DPS characters with ~10k dps in Vet dungeons or Vet DLC dungeons. It is no rocket science to get a stable 30k dps as DPS.
Alone today i had to abort maybe 10 dungeons as tank or healer, because it would be an endless dungeon and time is meaningful.
So please, if you are a new player, get equipment first. If you have no idea, what to farm, go wayrest NORMAL or blessed NORMAL, there you can find some easy equipment, which boosts your damage to 30k+ dps. For Empower source, take oakensoal if possible, if not, get mageguild to level 9 or take empower from scribing skills or class kills, if available.

Translation - Only players that can support a speed run through a vet dungeon need apply.

Translation - If you are not able to do more than 30k dps (no need even to parse minimally well), then you shouldn't enter into a vet dlc dungeon. It is selfish think that you can do it and then waste LOT OF time of three other members and can happen with that dps you cant end the dungeon being all a complete waste of time. It happened to me 1000 times as a tank, real frustation.

Ardriel

moo_2021 wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

There is no such thing as fake dps, just bad dps. Stop with this trolling nonsense.

Random veteran dungeon, 40k SnB and taunting boss with puncture. That is fake DPS in my book.

What's the problem if she doesn't die from mechanic?

that comment shows us that you have no idea how dungeon teams work and what dps are supposed to do. People like you better don't do vet dungeons. Max health, and sword and shield is not an option for a dps in a 4 man dungeon to avoid damage from mechanics. That's up to the tank. Just like taunting. A dps should never taunt. For dps there are shields, self-heal and always the possibility to avoid damage before it even occurs. (Blocking, dodging, avoiding aoe fields, etc). The job of a dps is to deal as much damage as possible while staying alive and to rezz dead team members if something goes wrong. Shield and sword builds are rather suboptimal.
You should also bear in mind that this is all about teamwork. If you run a dungeon with a group, you should try to do your part as good as possible. Don't forget that it's also about people's time. Nobody has endless time. People like dps with S/B and taunt are time thieves. Someone like that has no business in a vet dungeon.

However, it's also unfortunately a fact that the game gives far too few tutorials. As soon as you reach level 50, it says you can now do veteran content... You can't blame new players. There should be better tutorials and a hint to look for better equipment and get to know your class better before joining vet dungeon groups.

Orbital78

ElderSmitter wrote: »

100k+ DPS player here and I cannot play because of these insane Lag Spikes. I would run Dungeons all Day. Many on PCNA know me from all the Gold Motif Mask hunting runs we do. I would Also Tank them if needed. So, i am 1 less High Level DPS player in the mix. This could also be contributing to the lack of DPS.

I haven't noticed any lag unless it is specific to dungeon instances, since i haven't done any dungeons in a few weeks. It sounds like a routing issue with ESO's servers down in Texas. I had some issues in the past but they have cleared up thankfully.

There are a ton of low dps or pvp players that haven't bothered to put together a pve build (plaguebreak and sets that mess with crit resist, etc.) If the group dps is lower than what I think is capable of a smooth run, I will just /gl and bugger off and do something else. By vet content they should have solid builds and at least a half setup gear. There are plenty of easy builds, I mean we have Arcanists now and even the nerfed heavy builds should be able to do decent numbers. I don't mind helping out newer guildmates but I am not trying to carry randoms through stuff they aren't ready for, or even attempting to be ready for.

LaintalAy

alternatelder wrote: »

There is no such thing as fake dps, just bad dps. [snip]

I thought we were DDs as in 'Damage Dealers'...
DPS is a measurement, isn't it? As in 'damage per second'. But I'm faking it all the time, so what do I know?

Fellow DDs; just run in hit whatever you can. My spammable weapon-of-choice is Soul Trap. Great for mobs.
Your reliable tank will hold the boss in position (unless they've run ahead to the next boss)
Your reliable healer will keep you alive (unless they're up the back looking through their kit for something)

Therefore If you die, it won't be your fault. You can blame the other players for watching and analysing your pathetic performance, rather than doing anything useful themselves.

(was this too harsh?)

[edited to remove quote]

Galeriano2

derkaiserliche wrote: »

Since people need to to vet dungeons for monster heads, its totally fine if they do low dps.

Vet trials is a different thing of course, since you dont "need" to do it.

You don't need to get monster heads either. There is plenty of viable and even meta setups without 2 piece monster sets often with just 1 monster set piece and You can get shoulders without visiting vet dungeons.

Ulvich

Just roll with it.... Most of these players know their DPS is low and they are in those dungeons for what reason? To get better gear. In two or three months some of these guys just might out DPS you.
As we all know gearing up a toon takes time and whole lot of dungeon runs. If someone is slowing you down who cares?
I have been here a VERY long time and I have seen all types. Low DPS does not bother me at all.

Hasenpfote

In the opening post i have written, what you can do to do so the grp still progress thrus the dungeon.

If a tank doesn't know, how tank in a VET dungeon, aka does not know, what is a taunt etc. You can expect the tank will get voted out. If a healer doesn't know, how to heal, how to do resource management, runs out of resources after 10 seconds in a VET dungeon, you can expect the healer gets voted.

I for myself do many experimental builds as Healer, so it may happen, that my healer has 40k+ life. I often get voted out before we do our first thrash mob grp. In this case, i get voted because they can see my stats, not my game experience not my healing output nor grp buffs etc.

So in summary for VET dungeons, you have a minimum, that a player playing this role should fulfill.

To say it is 'just a bad dps' player, if he brings only 5-10k dps in a VET dungeon is not really an excuse, since it is no rocket science, to get some equipment to get meaningful dps.

A baseline heavy attack build can deliver 30k dps. Also you get a stat boost in a dungeon, if you have 4 stars in your character sheet.

If you now say: "But i want to play a bow bash build, it is so nice to play, i know it s bad dps but we can try the VET DLC HM ..."
Then my answer would be simple: "Nope"

I think the reason i want to finish a dungeon in a 'normal' time is, you have to farm 13 rnd dungeon go get 125 crystals for a single set. The grind is sometimes exceptional high in this game and then time becomes a factor in the game.

BlueRaven

There is a huge gap between top end and the average player. The problem is that whenever zos tries to fix it (like with oak) the top end howls in protest and they nerf the low end players again and again.

As far as I am concerned at this point this is a self inflicted issue by the top end players. This “my way or nothing” attitude toward “proper” combat got us to where we are.

I really wish sometimes the whole eso combat system got thrown out and eso just embraced Skyrim style combat. Bows are just people flinging arrows, close combat is just swing swords or daggers or whatever. Etc.
Just bring it all back to basics.

ShadowPaladin

Hasenpfote wrote: »

I think the reason i want to finish a dungeon in a 'normal' time is, you have to farm 13 rnd dungeon go get 125 crystals for a single set. The grind is sometimes exceptional high in this game and then time becomes a factor in the game.

If you are in a dire need of getting a set together, then I can understand it. But, if you are not in a need to get a set together as fast as possible, then there are other ways to get the needed crystals. For example, just do some PvP in the 30 day camp, in Cyro, on a few chars, until you reached T1 in the progress bar (for that you will need 25k AP). After 30 days you will get 50 crystals as a reward and if you have done it - for example - on 5 chars, you will get 250 (5x 50) crystals. That is enough for two sets .


P.s.: That was and is the way I farmed the crystals I needed for the time when the Necro and Arca were released. I should mention, that I did so although I do not like PvP at all and I am therefore not a PvP pro!

MaraxusTheOrc

alternatelder wrote: »

There is no such thing as fake dps, just bad dps. [snip]

This. The gaslighting by people who want to enable fake tanks and fake healers is relentless, but if someone queued as dps and are dpsing, they are not “fake” just because they aren’t hitting your arbitrary benchmarks. What IS fake though is a someone who queues as tank without any means of taunting or holding aggro. What IS fake is a healer with no heals slotted and leaves you standing five minutes without healed as they continue rushing through the dungeon.

[edited to remove quote]

AnduinTryggva

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Every one struggling with DPS and being unable to rota should just try Heavy Attack build with Orders Wrath and Sergeants Mail. Still deals more than enough dmg for all veteran content.

This may all be true but how is a player can aquire this information?

Ingame there is nothing that tells him or her: Hey, before you go into vet try this or that.

Imagine: I play ESO much much longer than I am member of this forum. I assume there are a ton of players out there that either are not member of this forum or who simply don't read here.

I understand the frustration of groups falling apart because there are so many players that queue for content that is (still) beyond their capabilities.

Yesterday each single random vet raid group I joined fell apart. The entire day. Because a significant number of people hat a pretty sketchy idea of the mechanics and/or struggled to play in coordination with the rest of the group. And some vet trials are really unforgiving here (cloudrest for instance or dread sail reef).

So I really understand the frustration.

I just can recommend two things:
1. take a layed-back stance if possible. Don't consider other players failing on purpose. Assume that they really try and for some of the many reasons that exist just fail short of what is needed. It is specifically on vet content small details that make fail. Yesterday in vet cloudrest for instance I missed the lift to the upper platform in portal 1 by half a meter in time. I died and hence the portal failed. Also I saw a lot of people ressing dead players with their shadow still be alive. The black whirl ist really not easy to spot with the color distortion in this instance if you don't know what to look for. In Lucent citadel I died twice yesterday because I was standing inside an aoe that I did not see because it was drowned by some extreme shiny effects from some adds during a mob fight.
2. Explain players doing mistakes what they should do, what they should not do and what they should look out for. Consider them to be future members of one of your groups but next time more knowlegeable and hence less prone to mistakes. The more you can teach others the less the chances that you meet unknowing people during future runs.

Bammlschwamml

I wish more players would use the group finder tool instead of just joining random groups.

Hasenpfote

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

I wish more players would use the group finder tool instead of just joining random groups.

By gamedesign, you have to use random grp to get the crystals.

RicAlmighty

[Removed]

Vynera

Hasenpfote wrote: »

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

I wish more players would use the group finder tool instead of just joining random groups.

By gamedesign, you have to use random grp to get the crystals.

Look for a group in groupfinder, start a random dungeon once your group is full?

LaintalAy

Hasenpfote wrote: »

<snip>
A baseline heavy attack build can deliver 30k dps.
<snip>

If you are now referring to 'dps' as a measurement and not a player-role, then I would think that latency (ping) would impact a player's ability to achieve a high level of dps. Do you agree with that?

My ping ranges from 350-427 ms. I never seem to be able to get above 15k on any practice dummys.
How does that sit with your thinking?

LaintalAy

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Yeah I think for dps it is just not knowing what to do and that they need to do it. I was a low dps player once, nothing in the game taught me that I needed to hit skills every second with a light attack between, and keep the rotation going constantly.

Most players don’t know that when the enemy has those red lines coming off it that you need to bash him or take damage.

It’s also very easy for beginner players to think they are better than they really are because they don’t realize that the group is actually carrying them.

You're right, there are no real instructions on this. Ice staves apply taunt(?). Not sure that the tool tip mentions that, but new characters relying on overland drops for weapons will get one before they get a lightning staff and if it completes your 5 pieces, it will get used.

One of the reasons I play random and not use the group finder, is to get the full effect of the randomness. Some days I can see that I'm being carried, other days it's not so clear. It's painfully obvious, however, when my character is the most powerful of the team. I work a lot harder on those occasions. Point is: some days you get carried, other days you do the carrying.

This is why all players should play the role that they queue for; and everyone plays the best that they can. Inexperienced players won't ever learn by observation and varied experience if the experienced players just do whatever they want.

This is the real reason that poor performing players are fronting up in Vet dungeons. They don't get the appropriate experience with other players before looking for the Vet dungeon rewards, which they incorrectly see as the solution.

what goes around, comes around...

Wereswan

MaraxusTheOrc wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

There is no such thing as fake dps, just bad dps. [snip]

This. The gaslighting by people who want to enable fake tanks and fake healers is relentless, but if someone queued as dps and are dpsing, they are not “fake” just because they aren’t hitting your arbitrary benchmarks. What IS fake though is a someone who queues as tank without any means of taunting or holding aggro. What IS fake is a healer with no heals slotted and leaves you standing five minutes without healed as they continue rushing through the dungeon.

And in turn, this. Unless there's a bunch of healers or tanks out there queuing as DPS (unlikely, considering the relative queue times,) fake roles are very much a one-sided issue.

[edited to remove quote]

Hasenpfote

LaintalAy wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

<snip>
A baseline heavy attack build can deliver 30k dps.
<snip>

If you are now referring to 'dps' as a measurement and not a player-role, then I would think that latency (ping) would impact a player's ability to achieve a high level of dps. Do you agree with that?

My ping ranges from 350-427 ms. I never seem to be able to get above 15k on any practice dummys.
How does that sit with your thinking?

it is pretty fine, but then you should accept, that you cant do many dungeons in VET DLC, if they require to dodge aoe in a very short timeframe. The game is not designed to have such high ping for VET DLC. Some dungeons can be done with high ping, but many not.

In the whole topic i'm writing about VET DLC dungeons. Everbody should play like they want. Keep in mind, that many effets, that are deadly on VET are less deadly in normal. The example you can survive orbs in deepen grave dungeons on normal while they are deadly in VET.

Shara_Wynn

If one doesn't want to run vet dlc content with inexperienced players then maybe one should avoid PUG's instead of expecting other players to kowtow to one's own personal preferences.

Also, the chances that any of the players that the OP is referring to, are either signed up to these forums or actively reading them, is probably quite slim.

Anifaas

There is no fake anything. Just people Playing How They Want™.

spartaxoxo

derkaiserliche wrote: »

Since people need to to vet dungeons for monster heads, its totally fine if they do low dps.

Vet trials is a different thing of course, since you dont "need" to do it.

You don't need a monster helm anymore than perfected gear.

spartaxoxo

Desiato wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

There is no such thing as fake dps, just bad dps. [snip]

I think there is.

I understand overland content is very forgiving, so players aren't forced to learn how to build or play optimally. So as long as players try their best, I don't really hold low dps against them.

However, there's a kind of selfish player, in the same vein as a fake tank or healer, who will queue into a random dungeon with a completely undeveloped alt who is just looking for a pure carry. They don't tank, they don't heal, they don't dps well because they barely try and it shows.

Often they are a fake tank/healer who can't dps either. [snip]

Yes. And they will openly say that they don't care about doing good numbers while still queuing for vet content.

[edited to remove quote]

VvwvenomwvV

I always try to help people if I can. Sometimes people are not receptive to help. They are happy where they are, and that's okay.

I would think to myself "This person has DPH, not DPS", but I'd still go through the dungeon with them. Most of the time they immediately leave after it's done, but sometimes I end up making a friend.

autocookies

deleted

oicero

Ok, now this is a fresh one.
Not a vet dungeon just a normal daily random run but guess what, it's one of those DLCs which bosses have 5-6m health pool. So we started and at the 2nd boss I was wondering why we are going slow and why the boss following the other DPS instead of the tank. Then I realised one of DKs (2 dks - one of is tank) and the other one is so called DPS! with SnB. Checked the dps meter. I was doing 80% overall dps. I asked myself if I am the only idiot here.
I tried to warn him and what I got as an answer is below in the picture. (He said he doesn't care.) So..ok then. If you don't care, I won't either. I stopped bursting my butt off and joined them NOT to dps. It took 6 minutes.
So, it'is on witch (with the "B").