Whats up with all these fake dps lately

Ezhh

Muizer wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

You could argue that for a Damage Dealer to fullfil their role at a minimal level (similar to the use taunt or heal you posted about) they should be able to outdps a tank or healer - otherwise they are not fulfilling their role and you might as well get 4 supports in. Since my fully specced as a tank character pulls about 7k DPS and my healer double that anything less that lets say 12-15k DPS is a fake DD.

I've not heard that one before. That's actually not a bad approach to this question. Well done!

This is also the approach I mentioned earlier, and why I get a bit frustrated when people seem to think the "fake DD" label is being applied to those who don't LA weave.

What I wrote earlier: "My personal measure of whether a DD is "fake" is whether I outdamage them while on full healer spec with just my wall and light attacks."

Someone could do this with just repeat use of their spammable and nothing else while using a crafted set.

tom6143346

cptscotty wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I think that talking about "fake" dps is just a distraction from the very real problem that fake tanks and healers present. Mostly in the more difficult dungeons. That and they are mostly speed runners. Or they just nope out as soon as Scribners Hall (for instance) pops up forcing a replacement that can often take a long time.

One is a bad dps? Well at least there are 2 of them.

But I understand not everyone thinks that and I'm happy to agree to disagree.

oh dps going in as tank and heals is a huge problem. The game should not allow it at all for random queues. Too many times in the last few days I had to redo March of Sacrifice queue because dps queued in for Tank/Heals and the first boss couldnt be completed. Sometimes they just left as soon as they showed up because they knew it was going to be a disaster, sometimes they tried to do the boss and just apologized when they couldnt and then dropped. I think it was the 7th time of trying this week before finally getting a proper group in a random queue for that dungeon.

Tbh most will leave this dungeon not so much bc you can’t tank it on a dps , most will leave bc it’s a super long dungeon and with low dps it can be a even longer pain to go true. So they think it just not worth the effort and leave.

Hasenpfote

tom6143346 wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I think that talking about "fake" dps is just a distraction from the very real problem that fake tanks and healers present. Mostly in the more difficult dungeons. That and they are mostly speed runners. Or they just nope out as soon as Scribners Hall (for instance) pops up forcing a replacement that can often take a long time.

One is a bad dps? Well at least there are 2 of them.

But I understand not everyone thinks that and I'm happy to agree to disagree.

oh dps going in as tank and heals is a huge problem. The game should not allow it at all for random queues. Too many times in the last few days I had to redo March of Sacrifice queue because dps queued in for Tank/Heals and the first boss couldnt be completed. Sometimes they just left as soon as they showed up because they knew it was going to be a disaster, sometimes they tried to do the boss and just apologized when they couldnt and then dropped. I think it was the 7th time of trying this week before finally getting a proper group in a random queue for that dungeon.

Tbh most will leave this dungeon not so much bc you can’t tank it on a dps , most will leave bc it’s a super long dungeon and with low dps it can be a even longer pain to go true. So they think it just not worth the effort and leave.

The issue with low dps damage dealer in vet DLC dungeon is, you may reach the final boss, but still you have to defeat the final boss. Meaning if it runs worth, you already have spend maybe like 30 minutes just to abort the dungeon after these 30 minutes.

Veteran stands for an experienced player. In veteran DLC dungeons you may meet trash mobs with 1M HP.
If you have low dps in a dungeon like Fungus 1 Vet, its fine, if you need double amount of time to finish this.
If you have low dps in a dungeon like city if ash 2 vet, double amount of times means you may need 1 hour for a single dungeon.

xylena_lazarow

ZOS needs a way to bridge the gap between from overworld mobs to Vet PvE and PvP. If I queue into a Vet dungeon as a tank, NO it is not my responsibility to sit through Fungal Grotto I for the next 45 minutes while some noob stumbles through the learning process. That's what Normal is for, if you use Vet for this, you're just being rude.

Bo0137

In ESO specifically fake (bad) DPS is way worse than a fake tank or fake healer

cptscotty

The game really needs an outlet for competitive pve players

Thysbe

Bo0137 wrote: »

In ESO specifically fake (bad) DPS is way worse than a fake tank or fake healer

a fake tank and healers have massive impact on overall group performance:

• you have to run dungeons with selfheal equipped (damage loss)
• groups are not stacked - you have to kill mobs 1:1 because they are anywhere , no cleave or meaningful use of AOE (massive damage loss)
• boss is constantly on you - so you have to block and dodge draining your dd ressources (damage loss)
• Buffs like Major Courage, War Horn and Pillagers Profit are missing (damage loss)
• Penetration is missing due to having no major breach and minor breach from tank (damage loss)
• no sustain from healer - so you are constantly drained and cannot perform as epxected (damage loss)

there might be more points

the log posted before is a desaster and that guy was obviously plaing the arcanist like an oakensorc.

To get the more Class Mastery Scripts I queued a few vet dungeons and was positively suprised - it was decent groups, people played their roles and were respectful of others doing quests or trying for no death. Same for Undaunted 2 key dailies.

As a decent but not pro DD (having done about 18/25 Trifectas) I queue vet nowadays, and spare myself the pain of fake tank, fake heal, speed runner normal dungeons. In my experience your are maybe even faster in the same content on vet if you can pull off the damage and the intended support is available.

Kappachi

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

MidniteOwl1913

Jimbru wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I think that talking about "fake" dps is just a distraction from the very real problem that fake tanks and healers present. Mostly in the more difficult dungeons. That and they are mostly speed runners. Or they just nope out as soon as Scribners Hall (for instance) pops up forcing a replacement that can often take a long time.

I think the game needs to introduce anti-rushing mechanics. So sick of joining a dungeon and a rusher takes off and is halfway to the second boss before the rest of the group is even logged in, leaving the rest of the group to deal with crowds of angry mobs on the way. This is especially hard on new players who haven't done the dungeon yet, and rushing fools who get them killed are their first impression of how dungeons work, so they end up avoiding group content or leaving the game altogether. Screw rushers. If your time is really that precious to you, then you should be doing something more worthwhile with it than playing a game. Lone player gets too far ahead of the group? Sheogorath laughs out loud and turns them into a statue until we catch up.

Statue I like the idea! :-)

But the worst rushing I think is when the rushers causes the other 3 players to be dragged from encounter to encounter. Joining encounter can be helpful but speed rushers really ruin that.

Charlesce

Whenever I'm tanking and the DPS is low, despite the sets I bring (tremor/naz pearl tide) I slot an execute. On NB with said pearl tremor tide I can squeeze a nice overall 12k into the mix from my execute while still rocking sword and board and ice staff. It's not much - and not ideal - but it greases the wheels

katanagirl1

Jh

markulrich1966 wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

Many players are younger than me (58), and don't experience such pain in their hands yet, so they continue this way and complain about "fake DPS". This likely will change once they encounter such health issues, too. The "fake" DPS might be luckier, avoiding such issues by just playing the game the way most games are intended to be played.

Have you tried heavy attack builds or Arcanist with a controller?

yes, I turned more than half of my 72 alts into HA builds.
But as those got nerfed too, I gave up.
Problem is, that you are forced into "niche-gameplay" in this game, if you can't or won't use an unhealthy playstyle.
As most other games don't force you that way, I switched to those.

One of my favourite tasks in ESO was farming worldbosses, you mostly had to do that solo, as there were not enough other players around like 4 years ago in summerset, when WB-farming was still done by groups.
As I no longer could do this after the nerfs, I now just login for daily rewards, some endeavours, and sometimes events.

We had adressed these problems often already years ago in this forum, but ZoS tried to focus on different things. It is ok, it is their game, but they lost me as an interested and well paying (>1000 Euro) elderly customer.

I have been dealing with tendinitis in my right index finger for nearly a year now. I try to play at a lower level instead of quitting completely. Light attacks are too painful so regular builds are out for prolonged combat. I am not quite elderly yet, but I am getting up there in years, lol.

The HA Oakensorc is too hard on my right finger with holding down the R2 trigger for so long. I made an arcanist and it is easier and less stressful on my finger. In group dungeons you can get by without light attacking at all because the rotation is more forgiving. The damage is better than the sorc too.

I recommend giving it a shot.

notyuu

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Jh

markulrich1966 wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

Many players are younger than me (58), and don't experience such pain in their hands yet, so they continue this way and complain about "fake DPS". This likely will change once they encounter such health issues, too. The "fake" DPS might be luckier, avoiding such issues by just playing the game the way most games are intended to be played.

Have you tried heavy attack builds or Arcanist with a controller?

yes, I turned more than half of my 72 alts into HA builds.
But as those got nerfed too, I gave up.
Problem is, that you are forced into "niche-gameplay" in this game, if you can't or won't use an unhealthy playstyle.
As most other games don't force you that way, I switched to those.

One of my favourite tasks in ESO was farming worldbosses, you mostly had to do that solo, as there were not enough other players around like 4 years ago in summerset, when WB-farming was still done by groups.
As I no longer could do this after the nerfs, I now just login for daily rewards, some endeavours, and sometimes events.

We had adressed these problems often already years ago in this forum, but ZoS tried to focus on different things. It is ok, it is their game, but they lost me as an interested and well paying (>1000 Euro) elderly customer.

I have been dealing with tendinitis in my right index finger for nearly a year now. I try to play at a lower level instead of quitting completely. Light attacks are too painful so regular builds are out for prolonged combat. I am not quite elderly yet, but I am getting up there in years, lol.

The HA Oakensorc is too hard on my right finger with holding down the R2 trigger for so long. I made an arcanist and it is easier and less stressful on my finger. In group dungeons you can get by without light attacking at all because the rotation is more forgiving. The damage is better than the sorc too.

I recommend giving it a shot.

get the velothi ur amulet, slap that on, ta-da now weaving and ha is useless to ya, but your skills are all 15% stronger, have fun

Aurielle

Jimbru wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

it is not so much about the gear, but about the rotation. 2-3 years ago, there were widespread nerfs, that forced you to use light attack weaving in case you would have the same dps than before the nerfs without it. *snip*

Light attack weaving is the worst thing about combat in this game. I will go to my grave saying that light attacks should be an autoattack, and animation canceling should be automatic.

I disagree. One of the things that drew me to ESO in the first place all those years ago was its active combat system. I loved it that I had to actively complete my “auto” attacks, had to actively dodge and block. I still do. Auto attacks are such a tired, dated, generic MMORPG feature. ESO still feels unique in this regard compared to ancient MMOs like WoW, LOTRO, EQ, etc.

Orbital78

katanagirl1 wrote: »

The HA Oakensorc is too hard on my right finger with holding down the R2 trigger for so long. I made an arcanist and it is easier and less stressful on my finger. In group dungeons you can get by without light attacking at all because the rotation is more forgiving. The damage is better than the sorc too.

I recommend giving it a shot.

I still enjoy my heavy attack builds, but ya it does cause a little strain on your trigger finger after awhile. Arcanist in the way, more powerful and easier IMO. There is a reason they are stacked in rosters.

VouxeTheMinotaur

EF321 wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

There is no such thing as fake dps, just bad dps. Stop with this trolling nonsense.

Random veteran dungeon, 40k SnB and taunting boss with puncture. That is fake DPS in my book.

What's the problem if she doesn't die from mechanic?

I queued as a real tank. Not fake. They are stealing my primary function and not doing theirs.

thisssss, thank you ugh

BlueRaven

markulrich1966 wrote: »

I tried to adapt, resulting in a beginning carpal-tunnel syndrome, so I used the emergency break and switched to Fallout 76, that does not require a rotation, light attack weaving, or animation cancelling.

I am sick of rotations and other gimmicks in games. It feels like an outdated construct at this point.

I like games like fallout and Skyrim. Simple straightforward yet grounded combat.

Elsonso

BlueRaven wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

I tried to adapt, resulting in a beginning carpal-tunnel syndrome, so I used the emergency break and switched to Fallout 76, that does not require a rotation, light attack weaving, or animation cancelling.

I am sick of rotations and other gimmicks in games. It feels like an outdated construct at this point.

I like games like fallout and Skyrim. Simple straightforward yet grounded combat.

Yup. Left and Right hand and the ability to hurl insults in Skyrim.

I think that is what a lot of new players coming from Skyrim and Fallout 4 expect when they start playing ESO, given the number of times I hear about people just using weapon light attacks. Admittedly, new players are also probably intimidated by the choices available in skills because they don't know which ones to pick. The advisor should be helping with that.

AnduinTryggva

I've done a few vet dungeons (non-DLC) as tank in the last few days for pledges. The majority of the groups had good and even excellent dps.

This morning however I ran into a group where me as tank did about 20% of damage. I've seen a one bar bow necromancer that took 2s for casting a skill or applying a light attack. If I had a bit more time I would probably have stayed despite that I actually wanted to do HM due to the double key (pledge) which would have been impossible with that group because I don't much like other people running away as soon as things don't go so mega smoothly. After the third boss or so I left nonethess dropping the advice to reconsider their build before going into vet dungeon again.

There is no shame in playing teacher (in a respectful way) to others that are maybe not at all aware that their dps is lacking because they were carried thru normal dungeons or simply have no clue in what department they are lacking.

AvalonRanger

Hasenpfote wrote: »

Lately, i see many DPS characters with ~10k dps in Vet dungeons or Vet DLC dungeons. It is no rocket science to get a stable 30k dps as DPS.
Alone today i had to abort maybe 10 dungeons as tank or healer, because it would be an endless dungeon and time is meaningful.
So please, if you are a new player, get equipment first. If you have no idea, what to farm, go wayrest NORMAL or blessed NORMAL, there you can find some easy equipment, which boosts your damage to 30k+ dps. For Empower source, take oakensoal if possible, if not, get mageguild to level 9 or take empower from scribing skills or class kills, if available.

Most of people who don't have reliable tank and healer friend can't do
pure DD build. I'm tank and healer main player, and it is very rare case
to meet better tank and healer than mine in random grouping.

Wereswan

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

Kappachi

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I've done a few vet dungeons (non-DLC) as tank in the last few days for pledges. The majority of the groups had good and even excellent dps.

This morning however I ran into a group where me as tank did about 20% of damage. I've seen a one bar bow necromancer that took 2s for casting a skill or applying a light attack. If I had a bit more time I would probably have stayed despite that I actually wanted to do HM due to the double key (pledge) which would have been impossible with that group because I don't much like other people running away as soon as things don't go so mega smoothly. After the third boss or so I left nonethess dropping the advice to reconsider their build before going into vet dungeon again.

There is no shame in playing teacher (in a respectful way) to others that are maybe not at all aware that their dps is lacking because they were carried thru normal dungeons or simply have no clue in what department they are lacking.

I was a one bar bow necromancer, although now I'm a healer with a 2h weapon using heals entirely off spellcraft, works a bit better but I do miss the days of my one bar bow necromancy that did no DPS, made vet dungeons fun since bosses would actually have time for mechanics.

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

On that note, while I queue healer for vet dungeons, I usually change my role to DPS for trials on the same one-bar healing build since my heals wouldn't be nearly enough for a trial but I can still output some DPS with one of my 5-set pieces.

spartaxoxo

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

A fake is anything that is no authentic. Your issue with fake healers and tanks may be them taking up a slot in the queue. But it is not required for it to be everyone's issue.

A fake tank is someone not built for handling aggro.

A fake healer is someone not built for healing others.

A fake DPS is someone not built for dealing significant damage.


Fake DPS are a primary cause of the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue. They make vet dungeons miserable for real support roles. So, such players exit the queue entirely.

Wereswan

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

A fake is anything that is no authentic. Your issue with fake healers and tanks may be them taking up a slot in the queue. But it is not required for it to be everyone's issue.

A fake tank is someone not built for handling aggro.

A fake healer is someone not built for healing others.

A fake DPS is someone not built for dealing significant damage.


Fake DPS are a primary cause of the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue. They make vet dungeons miserable for real support roles. So, such players exit the queue entirely.

Nope, not buying it; the "you don't need a healer/tank" talking point wouldn't even exist if people weren't doing it to selfishly beat the queue.

spartaxoxo

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

A fake is anything that is no authentic. Your issue with fake healers and tanks may be them taking up a slot in the queue. But it is not required for it to be everyone's issue.

A fake tank is someone not built for handling aggro.

A fake healer is someone not built for healing others.

A fake DPS is someone not built for dealing significant damage.


Fake DPS are a primary cause of the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue. They make vet dungeons miserable for real support roles. So, such players exit the queue entirely.

Nope, not buying it; the "you don't need a healer/tank" talking point wouldn't even exist if people weren't doing it to selfishly beat the queue.

I made no such claim otherwise.

Tanks and Supports leave the queue because of fake DPS. And if you don't think that's true, then just actually read what support players have to say. Because the real ones have quit randoms in droves because of fake DPS.

Wereswan

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

A fake is anything that is no authentic. Your issue with fake healers and tanks may be them taking up a slot in the queue. But it is not required for it to be everyone's issue.

A fake tank is someone not built for handling aggro.

A fake healer is someone not built for healing others.

A fake DPS is someone not built for dealing significant damage.


Fake DPS are a primary cause of the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue. They make vet dungeons miserable for real support roles. So, such players exit the queue entirely.

Nope, not buying it; the "you don't need a healer/tank" talking point wouldn't even exist if people weren't doing it to selfishly beat the queue.

I made no such claim otherwise.

Tanks and Supports leave the queue because of fake DPS. And if you don't think that's true, then just actually read what support players have to say. Because the real ones have quit randoms in droves because of fake DPS.

Yes, I've seen those stories—and also the stories about players kicking actual tanks and healers at the start of a RND. How does the latter fit into "well actually it's a skill issue?"

Pevey

Normal dungeons are very forgiving and meant for new players who might not even know what dps stands for. Especially the first ones, which unlock at level 10, I think? Vet is a different story. People should not be self-selecting into vet until they know their role.

I just wish the undaunted intro quest were more than buying some npcs drinks in a bar and doing some cheer/chant. (This is based on memory...it's been years.) New players are thrown into dungeons with zero in-game hints as to what to do for their roles. They get carried by experienced players through normal and may have no idea whether they are ready for vet.

I came to this game from Skyrim, where I played a sneaky archer. Based on this experience, I proceeded to make a nightblade toon in ESO on which I managed to LA my way through a lot of quest lines. Seriously. It was not pretty. To anyone who did a dungeon with me many years ago... I am sorry.

That said, I don't care what role ppl queue for in a normal dungeon, so long as they can stay alive. Know how to block, roll dodge, interrupt and stay out of red. Then LA your way through it if you want, I don't care. If you queue as tank, pull less than a third (your fair share) of the dps, and die constantly because you don't know how to play the game... that is the only time I nope out of a dungeon and switch to a new toon. I'll carry a 5k fake dps and rez them over and over, but I won't carry an anti-social fake tank. To each their own.

spartaxoxo

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

A fake is anything that is no authentic. Your issue with fake healers and tanks may be them taking up a slot in the queue. But it is not required for it to be everyone's issue.

A fake tank is someone not built for handling aggro.

A fake healer is someone not built for healing others.

A fake DPS is someone not built for dealing significant damage.


Fake DPS are a primary cause of the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue. They make vet dungeons miserable for real support roles. So, such players exit the queue entirely.

Nope, not buying it; the "you don't need a healer/tank" talking point wouldn't even exist if people weren't doing it to selfishly beat the queue.

I made no such claim otherwise.

Tanks and Supports leave the queue because of fake DPS. And if you don't think that's true, then just actually read what support players have to say. Because the real ones have quit randoms in droves because of fake DPS.

Yes, I've seen those stories—and also the stories about players kicking actual tanks and healers at the start of a RND. How does the latter fit into "well actually it's a skill issue?"

Considering the large numbers of complaints being about the lack of real tanks, I don't think a few people not wanting real tanks in RND is relevant. It is also once again centering someone other than the tanks and healers. Anytime tanks complain about what the game is like for them due to fakes, the topic shifts to someone else.

Wereswan

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

A fake is anything that is no authentic. Your issue with fake healers and tanks may be them taking up a slot in the queue. But it is not required for it to be everyone's issue.

A fake tank is someone not built for handling aggro.

A fake healer is someone not built for healing others.

A fake DPS is someone not built for dealing significant damage.


Fake DPS are a primary cause of the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue. They make vet dungeons miserable for real support roles. So, such players exit the queue entirely.

Nope, not buying it; the "you don't need a healer/tank" talking point wouldn't even exist if people weren't doing it to selfishly beat the queue.

I made no such claim otherwise.

Tanks and Supports leave the queue because of fake DPS. And if you don't think that's true, then just actually read what support players have to say. Because the real ones have quit randoms in droves because of fake DPS.

Yes, I've seen those stories—and also the stories about players kicking actual tanks and healers at the start of a RND. How does the latter fit into "well actually it's a skill issue?"

Considering the large numbers of complaints being about the lack of real tanks, I don't think a few people not wanting real tanks in RND is relevant. It is also once again centering someone other than the tanks and healers. Anytime tanks complain about what the game is like for them due to fakes, the topic shifts to someone else.

So have that conversation without the false equivalence of "fake DPS." Nobody is queuing their non-DD alts in the DD queue for the thrill of sitting in the queue forever. There are, however, quite a lot of fake tanks and fake healers popping up (and they tend to be bad DPS players in the bargain.) "Bad" and "fake" are not the same; a fake role is someone queuing as the wrong role who has no intention of performing that role. Bad DPS players are still trying to DPS, even if they're failing miserably in the process.

spartaxoxo

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

No such thing as fake DPS. If you aren't tanking or healing then you're DPS, you have a right to queue for vet dungeons like anyone else. I've seen many low DPS but as long as we can pass through enrage/dps checks it's fine, if not then the most lacking DPS is kicked and replaced and so on. As long as the DPS is attacking and making use of their skills they're a real DPS, as an RPG first and foremost players are able to build nearly however they want.

It's kind of amazing that this discussion is still going on. A fake healer is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake tank is a DPS player who has marked themself for the wrong role because the queue is faster. A fake DPS would be a healer or tank who has, for some reason known only to Sheogorath, decided to queue as DPS for the pleasure of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop.

That's the complaint with fake healers and fake tanks: that they're in the wrong queue for their own selfish benefit. There simply is not an equal and opposite problem with hordes of healers and tanks taking up DPS spots, because that would be silly.

A fake is anything that is no authentic. Your issue with fake healers and tanks may be them taking up a slot in the queue. But it is not required for it to be everyone's issue.

A fake tank is someone not built for handling aggro.

A fake healer is someone not built for healing others.

A fake DPS is someone not built for dealing significant damage.


Fake DPS are a primary cause of the lack of real tanks and healers in the queue. They make vet dungeons miserable for real support roles. So, such players exit the queue entirely.

Nope, not buying it; the "you don't need a healer/tank" talking point wouldn't even exist if people weren't doing it to selfishly beat the queue.

I made no such claim otherwise.

Tanks and Supports leave the queue because of fake DPS. And if you don't think that's true, then just actually read what support players have to say. Because the real ones have quit randoms in droves because of fake DPS.

Yes, I've seen those stories—and also the stories about players kicking actual tanks and healers at the start of a RND. How does the latter fit into "well actually it's a skill issue?"

Considering the large numbers of complaints being about the lack of real tanks, I don't think a few people not wanting real tanks in RND is relevant. It is also once again centering someone other than the tanks and healers. Anytime tanks complain about what the game is like for them due to fakes, the topic shifts to someone else.

So have that conversation without the false equivalence of "fake DPS." Nobody is queuing their non-DD alts in the DD queue for the thrill of sitting in the queue forever. There are, however, quite a lot of fake tanks and fake healers popping up (and they tend to be bad DPS players in the bargain.) "Bad" and "fake" are not the same; a fake role is someone queuing as the wrong role who has no intention of performing that role. Bad DPS players are still trying to DPS, even if they're failing miserably in the process.

Again, just because you define it that way, does not mean others have to do so. I listed exactly how I defined it.

A fake tank is someone not built to get/handle aggro

A fake healer is someone who is not built to heal others.

A fake DPS is someone not built to do significant damage.

Fake just means "not authentic" in the dictionary. It does not require deception. Monopoly money and counterfeit bills are both fake. Monopoly moneys goes out of its way to not deceive. Counterfeit money tried to trick people into thinking it's real. Both are fake because they are not real currency.

I don't understand why this semantic discussion always needs to derail tank player threads. The tank players clearly aren't saying that DPS are purposefully skipping queues. They are saying that they are having a bad experience.

xylena_lazarow

You guys do realize that "fake dps" is a humorous epithet for bad dps, right? It really doesn't matter why it's taken a half hour to get past the first boss of Vet Wayrest 2, my time as a tank has already been wasted by extremely rude dps players who should be queueing into Normal to learn the game, not Vet where teammates depend on basic competency.