Biased poll options.

I don’t mind to grind for something, dependent in part on the length and whether I get anything out of the process (the early antiquities grind is tedious because there are very few green and blue leads worthwhile compared to how long a character may be at that level, for example) and whether I am at least making steady progress. If drops are curated for instance, great, then I’ll eventually get what I want.

The more RNG involved, the more aggravating/discouraging I’m going to find it, to the point where I may give up on something entirely. Treasure chest leads — Necrom and Gold Road have made me come to despise treasure maps. I can’t grind it, unless you call buying something repeatedly grinding, and I am NOT doing that. I don’t even want to use the maps anymore, it just feels bad.

(Edited for typo.)

Job and life demand enough of my time already.
Games are meant to be enjoyed and not feel like a second job.

Love forum polls, the questions are always loaded and uneven

"Grind" by it's definition is not meant to be fun - "The daily grind" for example. That said, I don't mind farming stuff so long as it's not ridiculous. More sandbox elements (actual farming, more minigames, side activities, base building etc) in MMOs would alleviate the grind and offer more replayability too I think, but those things have fallen by the wayside in the last decade or so.

Where's the option for "I don't mind grinding if there's something I deem worth the effort" option?

Cuz I'd have clicky'd that one.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Where's the option for "I don't mind grinding if there's something I deem worth the effort" option?

Cuz I'd have clicky'd that one.

That wouldn't fit into the narrative that there's only hardworking people that play MMOs just for the grind and lazy people that want to be handed everything for free ...

My personal option would be:

"I don't mind grinding as long as it's without RNG and everyone has to put in the same or at least comparable effort to reach the goal"

If players refer to your game as a chore, then you have failed as a game developer.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

If players refer to your game as a chore, then you have failed as a game developer.

Not necessarily. A chore to one person is an enjoyable activity to another.

I think if someone chooses to do something they do not enjoy, that is entirely on them. This used to be the case for me in ESO. I over-extended my first ESO life by around 2 years, inflicting misery upon myself instead of choosing to do something I would enjoy more.

I understand you're a pvp focused player and I sympathize with you because when I was a pvp focused player in ESO, I was miserable. It's unfortunate that the game developed so far from its original design which permitted a greater focus on pvp, but that ship has sailed.

Desiato wrote: »

Not necessarily. A chore to one person is an enjoyable activity to another.

Tandor wrote: »

Or those players are either playing the wrong game for them, or else playing a game they would enjoy more if they played it a different way.

I wouldn't mind if the grind was just killing players in PvP, but hard locking PvP relevant content behind things that a PvPer would consider a chore is garbage obsolete game design. It sets the grind players and PvPers against each other as enemies on the forums. Successful F2P games let grinders grind, and adults with responsibilities can pay cash to skip. We are different demographics playing completely different games at this point.

I paid $40 for Scribing. Not content that I finished a decade ago and have no desire to repeat, definitely not in the format of daily time gated RNG, which is an absolute insult to my time and money. Wonder how the grinders would feel if ZOS hard locked something they paid $40 for behind the Emperor! achievement in PvP...

Nathrai wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Where's the option for "I don't mind grinding if there's something I deem worth the effort" option?

Cuz I'd have clicky'd that one.

"I don't mind grinding as long as it's without RNG and everyone has to put in the same or at least comparable effort to reach the goal"

I agree with this. Tying RNG to a grind is just unnecessary. I wouldn’t have cared about the ink grind if ink spawned at reliable locations. As it stands, the ink drop rate / RNG appears to be bugged — some players have amassed hundreds with minimal effort, while others of us are struggling even when deliberately grinding for it. It’s the same thing with leads. If you had to do a task 1-3 times for a lead, that’s fine. Opening 100+ treasure chests because RNG? Not fine.

derkaiserliche wrote: »

We dont talk about years of grinding like for grand overlord or for very hard veteran trial achivements. We talk about the latest gold road grind for ink (which can be bought for gold) and the scribing-skills, where you can get 9 skills a day.

There is a difference between repeating content that I like and want to get better in vs. farming RNG-based drops that unlock something I might use in said content.

Syldras wrote: »

Advertising the game like this -
https://www.thegamer.com/eso-not-considered-an-mmorpg/ -
will attract people accordingly.

And it does! I'm originally a shooter player, neither MMO nor RPG player, didn't like Skyrim, but love the PvP here. I've paid plenty of cash over the years for PvP, and would like to continue, if the game can respect my time and money.

I can't vote. I have a totally different approach of the issue. I will try to explain.

For me, grinding is a subjective concept. Grinding has for each of us a different definition. Generally, it's when we start repeating an activity we don't like in a row, for whatever reason pushing us to believe it's the only way to go. At the top of it, the cursor is completely different from one to the next as what activity is grinding, and when does it start to be grinding (or not). Not all have the same feelings about. That's a matter of personal tastes and limits.

But all the time, no matter who, no matter the activity, that's our own decision. We decide to impose the bother to ourselves on our own. Nobody is forcing us to do that.

Something we shouldn't forget: there is no time limit of any sorts in this game, no matter what our objective(s) is(are). So we have no need to grind. We can just keep playing the way we like, pushing maybe a bit on farming once in a while if required, but just enough not to suffer. Our objectives then complete over time, without grinding, however with the consequence that it takes - of course - longer.

And I believe that's exactly the key point: Many players want to reach their objective rapidly. And that's where the problem starts, like in the case of the luminous inks: The drop rate doesn't match with "rapidly". So, to be able to do it fast, players have to push it and that's how grinding starts. But in fact, that's their own decision to "grind" so that they can go faster. Nobody force them to do so.

Personally, I never ever grind. I always play the way I like. Once in a while, if in a good mood, I force myself to do some activities I don't like much, a bit here and there, so that it never comes close to grinding. That works perfectly for me. Now of course, the counter part is that I reach most objectives a lot later than other players. But well, who cares?

Please don't misunderstand me. I don't criticize anybody. I really just try to put things back in perspective. We grind because we decide to. We sort of creating it although we're not forced to it. And in most cases, the reason behind it wanting to reach objectives as fast as possible.