A disheartening lack of tolerance for low level players in trials

master_vanargand · May 24

Even players with low CP are fine as long as they are not Hard mode.
Understand the trials, don't die easily, and revive your group members.
CP and sets that speed up reviving speed are very useful.
In most trials, not dying is more important than DPS value.

sarahthes · May 24

Blood_again wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

The average player at level 10 isn't going to join a trial. You're far more likely to find an endgame raider on an alt in a trial at level 10 than a random casual gamer.

I guess you ran your last pug normal before the group finder introduced.
While good old chat encryption like "LF3M 2DD 1T nHoF" was filtering out many newcomers, the group finder doesn't do that. People often join the group with no clue, just for fun and curiosity.

For the last year I got tens of <50lvl players in normal trial groups. I personally don't kick them from start because I like giving people a chance. The only question was if they imagined where the group would go.
Only five of them acted at least consciously: they kept with the group and tried to fulfill their roles. One successfully tanked nMoL with lvl11 char. Every other just did a mess: ran in random directions, died in misterious places, stayed on entry, etc.
When I kicked those poor bodies to end their suffering, almost half of them told me how bad I am, that I judge them unfairly by their level

That was my practice for about a year.
What you wrote is looking more like a theory, or our experience is way different somehow.
And your argumentation fairly persuades me to kick low levels without questions next time, if you're right

I run group finder trials all the time. I have a friend who is newer to the game who is farming gear and I go along to help.

I never actually look at party member level, but I will say I'd rather have a level 10 player than the 70K HP sorc "healer" we kept getting a few nights in a row.

furiouslog · May 24

Why is this discussion still going? Firstly, the OP clearly abandoned the conversation after the first post, because it became obvious that their motivations were purely selfish and so coming back here would only invite a negative response. Secondly, it's clear from the responses that some people are willing to host low level people in trials, so there is no real barrier to entry unless one has an overblown sense of entitlement to the point that any trial gatekeeping at all is regarded as being universally unacceptable. It's clearly not a systemic problem on either end.

Blood_again · May 24

sarahthes wrote: »

I run group finder trials all the time. I have a friend who is newer to the game who is farming gear and I go along to help.

I never actually look at party member level, but I will say I'd rather have a level 10 player than the 70K HP sorc "healer" we kept getting a few nights in a row.

Hah. It is easy to be better than the "70K HP sorc "healer" "

Amottica · May 24

LaintalAy wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

snip

There is no corruption here. Players are intended to decide who they play with, one way or another.

snip

Yes and my points are that they do it in way that, as OP suggests, is disheartening. Most counter-arguments to OPs statements have been largely 'intolerant'.

How are you defining 'intolerant' ?

My understanding of what the OP wrote was 'why don't people carry my low levels around and do everything ? '. I did not see a single offer by the OP of what they would be contributing to the group that was carrying. It was simply a complaint that people did not want to 'help them out'. And that for some reason, those other players were bad people for Not doing something for free for the low level character.

I disagree with that logic. IMHO, I don't think Players are here, first and foremost, to do the work of gaining XP, for other players.

I agree that our retorts are hardly intolerant. It is intolerant to expect every group to change their goals and requirements to bow to someone else's desires, especially when we are talking about a level 10 character wanting total strangers to do their bidding so they can level up faster.

There are all sorts of different groups and guilds. The best course of action is to find an active casual guild that runs normal trials and is willing to occasionally take along a level 10 player. It requires taking the initiative to find the right group for one's own goals and sometimes standing up and forming the group instead of expecting others to do all the work.

I say this from experience. I am in a serious raiding guild and a casual guild. I sometimes form normal raids in that casual guild and do not care about the player's skill level. Sometimes, I take a sub-50 player with us, but I have never taken anything as low-level as the OP talks about. Even in my more serious raiding guild, we do some normal raids and help a player level up a new character, so this is not unusual.

Oh, but I do have a requirement. They must be on voice comms with us. That is not being intolerant.

So, yeah, there are groups out there, and hopefully, the OP will look at the replies here to find such good advice.

Do you understand irony?

Irony is lost in text-based communication unless it is written to be obvious. That did not appear to be the case here, as I am not the only one who replied to the comment.

Warhawke_80 · May 24

This is one of those threads where I wonder if someone on the dev team has read it...and what might there thoughts be on the subject.

I know we will never know...but one wonders....

LaintalAy · May 24

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

This is one of those threads where I wonder if someone on the dev team has read it...and what might there thoughts be on the subject.

I know we will never know...but one wonders....

The forum admins read everything to ensure the rules are being followed.

As stated recently, this is not a systemic problem. It's a player behaviour issue. A systemic solution https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/63691 has already been implemented.
So, we do know that issues raised in the forums are referred to the development teams when required.

Players can't be forced to like each other, or like each other's behaviour. They key point in OP's issue was related to 'lack of tolerance'. The discussion has revealed that there are some quite polarised views on this.

Warhawke_80 · May 24

LaintalAy wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

This is one of those threads where I wonder if someone on the dev team has read it...and what might there thoughts be on the subject.

I know we will never know...but one wonders....

The forum admins read everything to ensure the rules are being followed.

As stated recently, this is not a systemic problem. It's a player behaviour issue. A systemic solution https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/63691 has already been implemented.
So, we do know that issues raised in the forums are referred to the development teams when required.

Players can't be forced to like each other, or like each other's behaviour. They key point in OP's issue was related to 'lack of tolerance'. The discussion has revealed that there are some quite polarised views on this.

While it's reassuring to know that the forum admins are diligent in enforcing the rules, the problem is their oversight can only address violations after they've occurred.

Just a thought...rather than relying solely on reactive measures, it may be beneficial to also explore proactive strategies for promoting understanding, empathy, and respectful communication among players.

After all... encouraging constructive dialogue, offering educational resources on diversity and inclusion, and fostering a sense of community responsibility can all contribute to cultivating a more harmonious gaming environment where differences are respected and conflicts are resolved peacefully.

oldbobdude · May 24

Are we saying that ZOS should force people to include those that are too low of a level to do the content? I have to disagree with that. The game allows people to form their own guilds or groups and allows anybody to join or start a “find a group” that has the same goals.

LaintalAy · May 25

oldbobdude wrote: »

Are we saying that ZOS should force people to include those that are too low of a level to do the content? <snip>

I don't recall anyone suggesting that.