A disheartening lack of tolerance for low level players in trials

barney2525 · May 22

LaintalAy wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

snip

There is no corruption here. Players are intended to decide who they play with, one way or another.

snip

Yes and my points are that they do it in way that, as OP suggests, is disheartening. Most counter-arguments to OPs statements have been largely 'intolerant'.

How are you defining 'intolerant' ?

My understanding of what the OP wrote was 'why don't people carry my low levels around and do everything ? '. I did not see a single offer by the OP of what they would be contributing to the group that was carrying. It was simply a complaint that people did not want to 'help them out'. And that for some reason, those other players were bad people for Not doing something for free for the low level character.

I disagree with that logic. IMHO, I don't think Players are here, first and foremost, to do the work of gaining XP, for other players.

HatchetHaro · May 22

As with any content, you need to be able to carry your weight.

Now, what you're explaining may be a good point if your character was like level 40 and had good level 40 gear and all the necessary skills unlocked to be able to do good damage. However, at level 10, you barely have the skillpoints and experience to have skills unlocked and leveled, let alone the ability to barswap.

If everyone joined a group expecting others to carry them, the group would disband after dying a few times to trash.

Carry your weight.

karthrag_inak · May 22

So, correct Khajiit if he misunderstands this.

OP is complaining because other players do not want to spend their valuable trial play-time volunteering to carry OP's low level, non-contributing character, which even the OP couldn't be bothered to level up first, through a normal trial. Is this accurate?

This one saw no mention of compensation in OP's first post, although it is known that Khajiit reads through such posts in a very hurried and cursory manner (he does not wish to get any of the rampant indignation in his fur). So from Karth's readings, it seems the OP wants this service performed for them for free, yes? As some kind of donation perhaps?

Ok, then. To this, Khajiit flicks his tail.

There was the question raised of helping low-level characters, which Khajiit applauds and encourages; however, when Khajiit does encounter a low-level character who would like to get involved ASAP in all the advanced content ESO has to offer, Karth invariably suggests they level their character up first.

"There are myriad ways to level up in ESO," Khajiit tells them. "Some can take a week, some can take a day or two, and some can take -looks at watch- approximately an hour, give or take. It all depends on how much one wishes to spend."

One of the free ways to level up is through random normal dungeons. This one absolutely loves doing RNs with low level characters, and jumps at the chance to do so. It is known, Khajiit would participate in low-level Delve-mode Fungal Grotto 1, Darkshade Caverns 1 and Spindle Clutch 1 runs on all 20 of his characters (19 Khajiit and 1 Argonian Fishycat with fluffy delusions) every day with gusto and aplomb. This may take a while, and perhaps might even be boring, but the potential rewards for higher level characters (the exp and transmutes from doing easy RNs) are much more attractive, time spent is much shorter than for a trial, and it is of course easier to find 3 other folks that wish to help out than it is to find 11.

If one has gold and isn't afraid to spend it, there is always the option of doing sealed master writs to level up. Alchemy, Enchant and Provisioning can be leveled to 50 very quickly (approx 20 mins, give or take) if one has mats and, in the case of Enchanting, another player with max level Enchant willing to help out by crafting purple glyphs.

Then, with perhaps 200 sealed master writs for Alchemy, Enchant and Provisioning and a Mythic Ambrosia or 150 scroll, then -poof- you will be level 50. 200 sealed writs of this sort will be expensive - perhaps 3-4 mil gold, give or take - not to mention the costs of the various materials.

On the other claw, when you are done, not only will you be cp, but you will also have perhaps 1000-1500 writ vouchers, which currently have a conversion rate of 2k gold per voucher, give or take, through selling writ-purchased items such as attunable stations. So you can make a lot of your gold back.

sarahthes · May 22

Y'all are making so many assumptions about low level characters.

I can guarantee you that my level 10 character in purple training gear, with CP slotted, is gonna do more damage than the average cp 160 groupfinder pug.

In fact, I was tanking a pug rockgrove recently and a cp 200 character did more damage than anyone else in the entire trial - because it was an experienced player's new alt account.

Stop judging based on level and look at performance, y'all.

Warhawke_80 · May 22

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Level 4. No CP. Blue crafted gear, purple weapon. Mediocre weaving.

45k DPS on the trial dummy.

19k on the 3m skeleton.

Seems about on par with a copy-pasted Alcast build, underpenning by 7k and losing Rele stacks at random, which is what you'll probably get with the CP160 crew. At any rate, we can probably stop the "4k DPS getting carried" hyperbole now. The game aggressively scales you up when you're below level cap.

I'm usually not a fan of spreadsheet gaming....but that'll do worm ...that'll do.

Blood_again · May 22

sarahthes wrote: »

Y'all are making so many assumptions about low level characters.

I can guarantee you that my level 10 character in purple training gear, with CP slotted, is gonna do more damage than the average cp 160 groupfinder pug.

In fact, I was tanking a pug rockgrove recently and a cp 200 character did more damage than anyone else in the entire trial - because it was an experienced player's new alt account.

Stop judging based on level and look at performance, y'all.

While you're bragging with your skill, look which idea you just brought to us:
You told us that your 10lvl char performs better than average CP160 pug.
We know that player with CP160 char performs obviously better that the same player with 10lvl.
We know, that the chance to meet your 10lvl char is way less that to meet 10lvl char of those average pug.
So logically, what should we expect from the average 10lvl char we met in a trial group?
Thank you for persuading us

Gabriel_H · May 22

C_Inside wrote: »

This pedantic focus on level doesn't end once you hit CP, however. Oh no. Wanna do vAA? Better hope you're at least CP2000 with fully golded gear (including the jewelry and armor) otherwise you're not stepping foot in vet trials chief.

Sounds like you've encountered some very bad raid leaders, who not only have poor judgement, but seem to lack understanding of game mechanics.

For any content, CP is soft capped at around 1400 to 1600 - this is all that is needed to get every useful passive and the required champion bar skills.

Find a decent guild. There are plenty out there.

ClowdyAllDay · May 22

I see this post and while i havent read it or itys 4 pages of replies i have to wonder how you got into a trial and people didnt want you there? theres no such thing as a random pug for trials is there?

CrashTest · May 22

sarahthes wrote: »

Y'all are making so many assumptions about low level characters.

I can guarantee you that my level 10 character in purple training gear, with CP slotted, is gonna do more damage than the average cp 160 groupfinder pug.

In fact, I was tanking a pug rockgrove recently and a cp 200 character did more damage than anyone else in the entire trial - because it was an experienced player's new alt account.

Stop judging based on level and look at performance, y'all.

Sure, and my level 10 alt can do that as well bc I'm a sweaty raider, but this thread isn't about whether it can be done. It's about someone who expects to be carried for free by 11 strangers and has the gall to claim it's a problem when others don't want to bow and comply.

Also, let's stop pretending the average player at level 10 can pull their weight in a trial. They most assuredly can't. Pug groups have a bad rep for a reason and expecting people to know you're a capable level 10 alt is entitled and inconsiderate.

Orbital78 · May 22

Ultimately it comes down to the raid leaders decision. You could always make your own group and lead it if you know the mechs and don't need a full carry. My guilds that do normal trials will allow any level members to join pretty much, vet is another story, though some are pretty relaxed with requirements for the less difficult older trials.

Pugs don't know your actual CP level, experience, or if you can meet their goals (quick farm, etc). Guild runs are always best IMO, most have easy access to a discord to communicate properly and efficiently.

LaintalAy · May 22

barney2525 wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

snip

Yes and my points are that they do it in way that, as OP suggests, is disheartening. Most counter-arguments to OPs statements have been largely 'intolerant'.

How are you defining 'intolerant' ?
snip

Many replies fall back on the rhetoric of players "carrying" other players and how that is not fair. Well, in TEAM events there are always some members that are better than others. Most team members are carried to some extent or another. It's why they band together to rely on each other to achieve the objectives in the first place.

Your understanding:

why don't people carry my low levels around and do everything

I didn't see any comment asking for other players to "do everything" as you assert.

It was simply a complaint that people did not want to 'help them out'.

No, it was a more complicated complaint about the attitudes of Trial leaders and the effects that has on rejected players.

other players were bad people for Not doing something for free

I reread the original post, I don't agree that OP described anyone as 'bad'.

If you are suggesting that it would be tolerable for OP to offer to pay to be carried, rather than their expectation of a 'free carry', then you are now being 'intolerant' You're suggesting that bribing the team to accept a low level player is a tolerable solution, when it's simply another hurdle placed before inexperienced players - a Gold gate, rather than a Skill gate.

I don't think Players are here, first and foremost, to do the work of gaining XP, for other players

XP gain during a trial is something all 12 players will get, regardless if 11 of them are carrying the 12th.
Gear is something that they will all get.
Learning is something that they will all get.
Anyone looking for fun, might not get that if their mindset is always "that bloke isn't pulling his weight".
Some players might get a warm, fuzzy glow if they see the lowbie hold their ground and complete the trial.

I would like to hear how 'carrying' a low-level player can be problematic for a team largely composed of highly skilled and experienced players in a normal-level trial. Surely, 11 players all meeting the 'gate' requirements can run a Normal Trial with one dead DD at every round. You shouldn't need to even pause to revive the player.

All this hair-pulling, feet-stamping and other 3yo tantrum behaviour just because SOMEONE GOT A FREE CARRY.
Build a bridge, folks and get over it.

CP5 · May 22

sarahthes wrote: »

Y'all are making so many assumptions about low level characters.

I can guarantee you that my level 10 character in purple training gear, with CP slotted, is gonna do more damage than the average cp 160 groupfinder pug.

In fact, I was tanking a pug rockgrove recently and a cp 200 character did more damage than anyone else in the entire trial - because it was an experienced player's new alt account.

Stop judging based on level and look at performance, y'all.

I think it's a fair assumption that level 10 characters aren't decked out in all purple gear.

I think it's a fair assumption that level 10 characters don't have champion points slotted, or even unlocked.

I think it's a fair assumption that level 10 characters don't even know what most of their skills do, let alone how to use them.

So while it is entirely correct that a low level character can out preform a higher level character, depending on the player playing each one, it is a safe bet that the common trend of lower level characters being less prepared is well-founded. I've run enough pug dungeons to know that many dps don't know what their ultimates are, how damage over time or area of effect skills work, and couldn't navigate their way out of a red circle for the life of them, so if someone is organizing a group of 12, and the assumption is that one of those players is going to cause friction for everyone else throughout the run, it is better to err on the side of caution than to risk causing frustration in the group and having people leave.

Side note, there is no performance to look at when someone just joins your group, and many people who've been in the game long enough have likely seen what an average low level player looks like, and can base their assumptions on experience.

Ragnarok0130 · May 22

licenturion wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

I do agree CP doesn't mean anything. I regularly see high CP players spamming bosses that have the immortal health bar, instead of taking care of the protectors first.

CP does mean something in trials as it adds required buffs for affecting one's performance. CP should not be taken into consideration for normal trials unless it's a support role and even then there's a wide field of consideration depending on the group. However in veteran and vet HM trials having enough CP is a must.

Also PUGs are unpredictable regarding their outlook on level/gear/CP; if the OP wants a better experience joining a raiding guild would be his best course of action to get experience, mentoring, and gear.

vsrs_au · May 22

CP5 wrote: »

I think it's a fair assumption that level 10 characters don't have champion points slotted, or even unlocked.
I think it's a fair assumption that level 10 characters don't even know what most of their skills do, let alone how to use them.

I think both of those assumptions could be completely wrong, if the character is not the player's first.

El_Borracho · May 22

sarahthes wrote: »

Y'all are making so many assumptions about low level characters.

I can guarantee you that my level 10 character in purple training gear, with CP slotted, is gonna do more damage than the average cp 160 groupfinder pug.

In fact, I was tanking a pug rockgrove recently and a cp 200 character did more damage than anyone else in the entire trial - because it was an experienced player's new alt account.

Stop judging based on level and look at performance, y'all.

Neat.

Level 10 players are still Level 10 players, even with a full compliment of CP. While I agree that CP level is not indicative of success or skill, Level 10 is indicative that the player is running with Level 10 gear, usually craftable, with Training as the trait, and without a mythic, with Level 10 enchantments, and Level 10 food, because they only have Level 10 skill points, which will have an effect on DPS and survivability. Which means the Level 10 player is getting a carry.
While the sticker book and reconstruction have changed things, normal trials are usually full of players grinding for gear. Players would prefer CP 160 gear in the desired trait. Not Level 10 gear they are guaranteed to have to reconstruct.
There are better, faster ways to level up an alternate character that don't involve having 11 players carry you.
Finally, its not up to the Level 10 player. Its up to the other 11 players in the trial.

CP5 · May 22

vsrs_au wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I think it's a fair assumption that level 10 characters don't have champion points slotted, or even unlocked.
I think it's a fair assumption that level 10 characters don't even know what most of their skills do, let alone how to use them.

I think both of those assumptions could be completely wrong, if the character is not the player's first.

Is the default to assume a level 10 is a player's first character or alt? You have achievements, you have the ability to link gear, though that's just a code printed to chat and could be modified if someone felt like it, but at a glance, just at a glance without gameplay watching them act, how is someone supposed to know? There are plenty of low level characters, and a lot of them belong to people who are just entering the game.

Necrotech_Master · May 22

CP5 wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I think it's a fair assumption that level 10 characters don't have champion points slotted, or even unlocked.
I think it's a fair assumption that level 10 characters don't even know what most of their skills do, let alone how to use them.

I think both of those assumptions could be completely wrong, if the character is not the player's first.

Is the default to assume a level 10 is a player's first character or alt? You have achievements, you have the ability to link gear, though that's just a code printed to chat and could be modified if someone felt like it, but at a glance, just at a glance without gameplay watching them act, how is someone supposed to know? There are plenty of low level characters, and a lot of them belong to people who are just entering the game.

like some others said, CP is not indicative of experience either

a lvl 10 played by an experienced player could probably out damage a cp 1000 who is inexperienced or not good with the combat

because of the scaling in this game, and the very limited vertical progression, a low lvl character can pull their weight in a group instance if they are set up properly

i would agree that a low lvl would still be limited on the dps due to the lack of skills (though as shown in this thread arcanist specifically has an advantage here because they dont need a lot of skills to excel due to the beam), but i still think they could manage at least 30k on a trial dummy if played by a skill player with a basic gear setup (such as full shattered fate)

as for the topic of the OP, for me personally i could care less if low lvls joined a normal trial i was leading as usually i just need bodies to fill slots

Rkindaleft · May 22

CrashTest wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Y'all are making so many assumptions about low level characters.

I can guarantee you that my level 10 character in purple training gear, with CP slotted, is gonna do more damage than the average cp 160 groupfinder pug.

In fact, I was tanking a pug rockgrove recently and a cp 200 character did more damage than anyone else in the entire trial - because it was an experienced player's new alt account.

Stop judging based on level and look at performance, y'all.

Sure, and my level 10 alt can do that as well bc I'm a sweaty raider, but this thread isn't about whether it can be done. It's about someone who expects to be carried for free by 11 strangers and has the gall to claim it's a problem when others don't want to bow and comply.

Also, let's stop pretending the average player at level 10 can pull their weight in a trial. They most assuredly can't. Pug groups have a bad rep for a reason and expecting people to know you're a capable level 10 alt is entitled and inconsiderate.

This. The 45K DPS on an under 50 character is nice, sure, but that is a cherry picked parse from an already very experienced player and is extremely misrepresentative of the other 99.99% of Level 10 characters that are playing the game.

Trials are not the place to go to level up in, I can't believe this is even an argument to begin with.

Juju_beans · May 22

Rejecting new players in "runs" isn't unique to ESO.
Same happens in other MMOs.

Best bet for newbies to get dungeon experience is to join a nice social guild that runs and helps players.

El_Borracho · May 22

Juju_beans wrote: »

Rejecting new players in "runs" isn't unique to ESO.
Same happens in other MMOs.

Best bet for newbies to get dungeon experience is to join a nice social guild that runs and helps players.

Except this isn't dungeons. This is about sub-Level 50 players running trials. Dungeons are exactly where newbies and low alts should be getting experience and leveling.

sleepy_worm · May 23

Desiato wrote: »

I've haven't even observed anyone sub-50 try to join a group finder trial, and if they did I would I bet few would even care. This thread is much ado about nothing.

I was really hoping this would be true. I joined 4 groups today and the first two went really well. I got top damage in Rockgrove, which was neat. Nobody mentioned my level in that run. I mentioned it in the second group because it said it was a farming run, but the people in group didn't mind. I got #3 damage in that run (Sunspire).

Third group was polite about kicking me (Cloudrest). The player even texted with me a bit after that, staying polite the whole time.

Fourth group (HoF) was unceremonious but hey, words are better than no words. I understand that HoF is definitely not the place to be if you aren't solid on the mechanics, but they didn't give me a chance to explain that I was. Ah well.

Anyway, after the first two groups, I really was hoping today would have more consistent results like that. Unfortunately, it seems that not everyone is as tolerant as the groups you've been in.

Desiato · May 23

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Anyway, after the first two groups, I really was hoping today would have more consistent results like that. Unfortunately, it seems that not everyone is as tolerant as the groups you've been in.

As I've never seen a lowbie in a random dungeon pug, they probably were as tolerant as the groups I've been in.

I may have said few would care, but I also said I wouldn't blame them if they did kick a lowbie.

I guess I should have taken some screenshots of the random dungeons I ran with typical lowbies today. 26k group dps, 20k of was my healer in purple gear while healing the magicka sponges.

So yeah, I don't blame them for assuming that lowbie isn't an experienced player trying to prove a point.

sleepy_worm · May 23

I was only seeing if I could confirm the OP's experience, which you tried to brush aside as "much ado about nothing."

My point in posting here is not one I can prove. I think people who kick low-level players from trials are contributing to a toxic game environment. That's not something you can test for or prove. That it happens at all is something you can prove, which I did (though that is a pretty low bar). I was hoping to have been wrong about the Group Finder, because the only experience I had prior to today was the Dungeon Finder, and in a way I was.

Overall, the Group Finder is much friendlier are more tolerant than I expected. The groups that did accept me were nice to each other, though one healer did get a bit grumpy about not stacking for the hug mechanic in Sunspire (rightfully so). And the groups that kicked me did not do so silently. So, on the whole, I think I've softened my original opinion of this situation, though I still think that there are far too many people spreading bad information about normal trials in general.

Sakiri · May 23

sarahthes wrote: »

Y'all are making so many assumptions about low level characters.

I can guarantee you that my level 10 character in purple training gear, with CP slotted, is gonna do more damage than the average cp 160 groupfinder pug.

In fact, I was tanking a pug rockgrove recently and a cp 200 character did more damage than anyone else in the entire trial - because it was an experienced player's new alt account.

Stop judging based on level and look at performance, y'all.

Quite honestly, I don't care.

The content is designed for level capped players and that's what I'm taking. I wish they'd shut under 50s out just to stop nonsense like this.

You want to run a trial at 10? Form the group your dang self.

PS: I've been doing trials, vet trials, since sub 500 CP. Find the right group and you can do whatever you want.

Desiato · May 23

sleepy_worm wrote: »

I was only seeing if I could confirm the OP's experience, which you tried to brush aside as "much ado about nothing."

It is much ado about nothing because it's a rare scenario. This is a 4 page thread that exists because someone was upset they weren't permitted to grind undaunted in another player's group and conflated that with prejudice against new players -- which would be fair because a legitimately new player would be out of place and would not have performed as you could.

I can't believe how much time you've invested in-game for this! And this relevant because, IMO, most of the players in a normal trial pug are there because they're grinding sets, probably a specific weapon drop that they feel they need to move on past this stage so they feel some time urgency about it.

(for all the players on their 30th ncr pug for a rele dagger or destro, I salute you)

sarahthes · May 23

CrashTest wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Y'all are making so many assumptions about low level characters.

I can guarantee you that my level 10 character in purple training gear, with CP slotted, is gonna do more damage than the average cp 160 groupfinder pug.

In fact, I was tanking a pug rockgrove recently and a cp 200 character did more damage than anyone else in the entire trial - because it was an experienced player's new alt account.

Stop judging based on level and look at performance, y'all.

Sure, and my level 10 alt can do that as well bc I'm a sweaty raider, but this thread isn't about whether it can be done. It's about someone who expects to be carried for free by 11 strangers and has the gall to claim it's a problem when others don't want to bow and comply.

Also, let's stop pretending the average player at level 10 can pull their weight in a trial. They most assuredly can't. Pug groups have a bad rep for a reason and expecting people to know you're a capable level 10 alt is entitled and inconsiderate.

The average player at level 10 isn't going to join a trial. You're far more likely to find an endgame raider on an alt in a trial at level 10 than a random casual gamer.

Amottica · May 24

barney2525 wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

snip

There is no corruption here. Players are intended to decide who they play with, one way or another.

snip

Yes and my points are that they do it in way that, as OP suggests, is disheartening. Most counter-arguments to OPs statements have been largely 'intolerant'.

How are you defining 'intolerant' ?

My understanding of what the OP wrote was 'why don't people carry my low levels around and do everything ? '. I did not see a single offer by the OP of what they would be contributing to the group that was carrying. It was simply a complaint that people did not want to 'help them out'. And that for some reason, those other players were bad people for Not doing something for free for the low level character.

I disagree with that logic. IMHO, I don't think Players are here, first and foremost, to do the work of gaining XP, for other players.

I agree that our retorts are hardly intolerant. It is intolerant to expect every group to change their goals and requirements to bow to someone else's desires, especially when we are talking about a level 10 character wanting total strangers to do their bidding so they can level up faster.

There are all sorts of different groups and guilds. The best course of action is to find an active casual guild that runs normal trials and is willing to occasionally take along a level 10 player. It requires taking the initiative to find the right group for one's own goals and sometimes standing up and forming the group instead of expecting others to do all the work.

I say this from experience. I am in a serious raiding guild and a casual guild. I sometimes form normal raids in that casual guild and do not care about the player's skill level. Sometimes, I take a sub-50 player with us, but I have never taken anything as low-level as the OP talks about. Even in my more serious raiding guild, we do some normal raids and help a player level up a new character, so this is not unusual.

Oh, but I do have a requirement. They must be on voice comms with us. That is not being intolerant.

So, yeah, there are groups out there, and hopefully, the OP will look at the replies here to find such good advice.

LaintalAy · May 24

Amottica wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

snip

There is no corruption here. Players are intended to decide who they play with, one way or another.

snip

Yes and my points are that they do it in way that, as OP suggests, is disheartening. Most counter-arguments to OPs statements have been largely 'intolerant'.

How are you defining 'intolerant' ?

My understanding of what the OP wrote was 'why don't people carry my low levels around and do everything ? '. I did not see a single offer by the OP of what they would be contributing to the group that was carrying. It was simply a complaint that people did not want to 'help them out'. And that for some reason, those other players were bad people for Not doing something for free for the low level character.

I disagree with that logic. IMHO, I don't think Players are here, first and foremost, to do the work of gaining XP, for other players.

I agree that our retorts are hardly intolerant. It is intolerant to expect every group to change their goals and requirements to bow to someone else's desires, especially when we are talking about a level 10 character wanting total strangers to do their bidding so they can level up faster.

There are all sorts of different groups and guilds. The best course of action is to find an active casual guild that runs normal trials and is willing to occasionally take along a level 10 player. It requires taking the initiative to find the right group for one's own goals and sometimes standing up and forming the group instead of expecting others to do all the work.

I say this from experience. I am in a serious raiding guild and a casual guild. I sometimes form normal raids in that casual guild and do not care about the player's skill level. Sometimes, I take a sub-50 player with us, but I have never taken anything as low-level as the OP talks about. Even in my more serious raiding guild, we do some normal raids and help a player level up a new character, so this is not unusual.

Oh, but I do have a requirement. They must be on voice comms with us. That is not being intolerant.

So, yeah, there are groups out there, and hopefully, the OP will look at the replies here to find such good advice.

Do you understand irony?

Blood_again · May 24

sarahthes wrote: »

The average player at level 10 isn't going to join a trial. You're far more likely to find an endgame raider on an alt in a trial at level 10 than a random casual gamer.

I guess you ran your last pug normal before the group finder introduced.
While good old chat encryption like "LF3M 2DD 1T nHoF" was filtering out many newcomers, the group finder doesn't do that. People often join the group with no clue, just for fun and curiosity.

For the last year I got tens of <50lvl players in normal trial groups. I personally don't kick them from start because I like giving people a chance. The only question was if they imagined where the group would go.
Only five of them acted at least consciously: they kept with the group and tried to fulfill their roles. One successfully tanked nMoL with lvl11 char. Every other just did a mess: ran in random directions, died in misterious places, stayed on entry, etc.
When I kicked those poor bodies to end their suffering, almost half of them told me how bad I am, that I judge them unfairly by their level

That was my practice for about a year.
What you wrote is looking more like a theory, or our experience is way different somehow.
And your argumentation fairly persuades me to kick low levels without questions next time, if you're right

Khrogo · May 24

Levelling to 50 takes no time. OP, bemoaning people’s reluctance to accept low level characters in a normal trial ignores the fact that most low-level players are an obstacle to completing a trial. Speaking from experience, on the occasions I have joined a normal trial with several low-level group members, we have wiped, repeatedly. It is not fun. And while I understand that you already have experience, there is little need for you to be running a trial, none of the sub-160 gear will be of any value to you. All you are doing is inconveniencing others.

During the pandemic, I switched from Xbox to PC. I was about 180CP when I joined my first PUG vet trial. It was vHRC. I was a healer. I wouldn’t have joined as a DD because I wouldn’t have been able to make a meaningful contribution to the group. As a healer, I was wearing a couple of sets, including one that gave Major Courage. I was confident I would not be a hindrance.

To be honest, when I see too many low-level players in trials, I often back out. If you really want to do trials at your level, set up your own trial and populate it with whomever you see fit.