A disheartening lack of tolerance for low level players in trials

C_Inside · May 19

Recently I've created an alt character that I'm leveling. In case you don't know the most efficient way to level the Undaunted skill line before hitting CP is to do the weekly trial quests since you can start joining trial groups at level 10 (not to mention you get a bunch of transmutes, slaughterstones, and possibly style pages). What I've found however is that for all the talk of the ESO community being this inclusive place that is more than willing to help new players, it sure isn't willing to let them participate in any harder content (if you can even call nAA hard).

Almost every single trial group I join the leader winds up kicking me. Keep in mind, these are normal trials I'm trying to do and I'm queuing as a DD. So not a very significant role. Even if I was only providing like 4K dps it wouldn't change anything as there are no dps checks in normal trials. Most of the time I have to explain myself and even after linking several hard mode clears I still get kicked. I honestly can't imagine how hard it must be for actual new players to start doing trials when this is what I have to deal with. Nevermind how often I have to try and defend myself from the "your dps is too low for this normal base game trial that has no dps checks" crowd. Something that a new player probably won't have the confidence to do.

Speaking of new platers how do these people who kick low levels think a new player that has just gathered the courage to apply for a trial will feel? Are they going to try again with a different group or will they just go "Well I tried, I got told to ef off. Clearly raiding isn't for me". It's no secret that ESO has a problem with player retention, which is especially felt in the end game community and this sort of behavior really isn't helping the matter. I sometimes wonder how much easier it would be to find support roles if low level trials were encouraged instead of how it is right now. The group finder for trials opens up at level 10 for God's sake!

This pedantic focus on level doesn't end once you hit CP, however. Oh no. Wanna do vAA? Better hope you're at least CP2000 with fully golded gear (including the jewelry and armor) otherwise you're not stepping foot in vet trials chief. I was recently in a vHRC pug and had to argue with the raid lead and 4 other people about a CP438 player that wanted to join. Wanna know what happened at the last boss? Most of the CP2000 people that were in the group died to Shehai Storm because they didn't know to split up. Meanwhile the CP438 didn't die once.

Bottom line is I just really wish ESO as a whole encouraged low level raiding more and that the community would be more accepting of low level raiders. Most of the best gear in the game is found in trials after all and I bet many people would stick around with ESO if Minor Slayer gear wasn't this mythical, unobtainable thing that only the top 0.01% of players have.

Desiato · May 19

This is completely understandable as most people use normal trials to grind gear. They want to do it as quickly as possible. They are not interested in carrying players who are grinding undaunted.

Even among level 50 characters, dps can be very low in normal trial pugs.

You may have the option of playing trials at level 10, but that doesn't exclude other players for having different requirements and expectations. It's their prerogative. If you disagree, you are free to run your own groups with requirements you think are appropriate.

fizl101 · May 19

I assume you mean PUGs in this example for under 50 characters. Social and training guilds often take baby characters on normal trials

licenturion · May 19

C_Inside wrote: »

Bottom line is I just really wish ESO as a whole encouraged low level raiding more and that the community would be more accepting of low level raiders. Most of the best gear in the game is found in trials after all and I bet many people would stick around with ESO if Minor Slayer gear wasn't this mythical, unobtainable thing that only the top 0.01% of players have.

To be fair, that gear that 0.01 percent of players have isn't necessary to have at all. In fact you will be fine in 99.99 percent of content of the game with gear you can farm in PUGS.

I do mainly PUG trials and when I notice there are a few low level baby alts, I usually take a deep breath because I usually know how the trial will go which either takes 3 times as long or most people just leave after the third boss because we keep wiping. But I do give it a shot.

There are guilds like Ultimate Recruits for example that organize runs for lower characters, story mode runs or learning mechanics. I would advise to go that route so that you have a pleasant experience.

I do agree CP doesn't mean anything. I regularly see high CP players spamming bosses that have the immortal health bar, instead of taking care of the protectors first.

Dragonnord · May 19

C_Inside wrote: »

Recently I've created an alt character that I'm leveling. In case you don't know the most efficient way to level the Undaunted skill line before hitting CP is to do the weekly trial quests since you can start joining trial groups at level 10 (not to mention you get a bunch of transmutes, slaughterstones, and possibly style pages). What I've found however is that for all the talk of the ESO community being this inclusive place that is more than willing to help new players, it sure isn't willing to let them participate in any harder content (if you can even call nAA hard).

Sorry I don't agree with you, since trials are group content and in group content you are expected to contribute and do your part, and with a level 10, 20, 30, 40 character you can't collaborate in any way.

Every single player, new or players creating alts, have a path to walk before jumping into trials.

Also don't get why you need Undaunted leveled up so in a hurry at low level, there's a reason why Undaunted pledges become available at level 45+, and you can level that skill line up really fast by doing pledges.

sarahthes · May 19

C_Inside wrote: »

Bottom line is I just really wish ESO as a whole encouraged low level raiding more and that the community would be more accepting of low level raiders. Most of the best gear in the game is found in trials after all and I bet many people would stick around with ESO if Minor Slayer gear wasn't this mythical, unobtainable thing that only the top 0.01% of players have.

There's a lot of people who think normal trials are endgame. These aren't endgame raiders thinking this, by the way. I find there's a few levels of gatekeeping in endgame and the first level of that is definitely at a very casual level of actual gameplay.

colossalvoids · May 19

I don't think this has anything to do with any inclusivity or helpfulness, no one is obligated to carry anyone and some high CP players might need one themselves there, no matter how easy the content is for you. You can look up any difficulty thread and people are talking about not being able to do anything no matter how trivial it is, not solo nor in groups. People generally expect trials to not be newbie leveling grounds, if you do think otherwise create your own group and play by your own rules, no one going to stop you. Joining other's groups is playing by other's rules.

Araneae6537 · May 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

Recently I've created an alt character that I'm leveling. In case you don't know the most efficient way to level the Undaunted skill line before hitting CP is to do the weekly trial quests since you can start joining trial groups at level 10 (not to mention you get a bunch of transmutes, slaughterstones, and possibly style pages). What I've found however is that for all the talk of the ESO community being this inclusive place that is more than willing to help new players, it sure isn't willing to let them participate in any harder content (if you can even call nAA hard).

Sorry I don't agree with you, since trials are group content and in group content you are expected to contribute and do your part, and with a level 10, 20, 30, 40 character you can't collaborate in any way.

Every single player, new or players creating alts, have a path to walk before jumping into trials.

Also don't get why you need Undaunted leveled up so in a hurry at low level, there's a reason why Undaunted pledges become available at level 45+, and you can level that skill line up really fast by doing pledges.

Agreed. I think it a normal requirement that a character be level 50 for a trial. Even base game dungeons have level requirements for queuing.

You can join the Undaunted at an early level by talking to the quest giver in Auridon, Stonefalls, or Glenumbra and then you’ll level Undaunted as you start doing the dungeons (maybe that’s common knowledge, but I had leveled many alts before discovering I could start on Undaunted at all before the invitation letter around level 43).

valenwood_vegan · May 19

All of the guilds I've been in that do regular trials (social and trading guilds, not serious trial guilds) often have a dps spot or two open for literally any guildie who wants to join... as long as they're not like level 3 right off the boat in mismatched trash gear. Maybe not every trial run, but often. It sounds more like the issue is maybe... trying to PuG trials with a low level character?

I think it's just unrealistic to expect any old random PuG doing endgame content to take on a low level or inexperienced player. It can be a lot of work to organize 11 other people for a run and people don't want that effort to go to waste - they want to be successful. A potential weak-link lowers the chance of success... which can lead to players abandoning the run and needing to be replaced, further slowing down the run and reducing the chances of success and creating a vicious cycle.

Furthermore, following u35 and other changes, the trial community has been hollowed out, with fewer high performing players available to sort of... carry a run and make up for lower performing players.

It would be *nice* if every player was always willing to take the time to welcome and teach new players, but that's just not reality. People my be pressed for time; may have their own goals to accomplish; may have just patiently worked through a training run for 2 hours and not feel like going through that again; the lead could be very familiar with the trial and know that the group already has a less than 100% chance of success and really can't support a new or low-level player. (And yes, some are just selfish or unfriendly or don't care - if you gather a bunch of random people, the reality is that some will always fall into this category and there's not really anything that can be done about it).

No one is entitled to anyone else's time, and one can always put in the effort to form their own group if they are not happy with the requirements of groups that others put in the effort to form. Or as suggested a couple of times, try guilds.

Though more specific to OP's situation, I'm unsure whether even the most open and inclusive of guilds would want to organize and run a trial just so that an experienced player can level undaunted. I don't think that's why people organize trials.

Soarora · May 19

People seem to forget low leveled players have boosted damage thanks to One Tamriel. That said, I’ve seen guild normal trial requirements start at cp 160 for the reason of trading gear but we also have the collection system now.

Group leaders are entitled to bring whoever they want into their group, especially because they might not actually know how to do the mechanics with lower damage. That said, doing older trials with lower damage sounds like it’d be fun.

virtus753 · May 19

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

Recently I've created an alt character that I'm leveling. In case you don't know the most efficient way to level the Undaunted skill line before hitting CP is to do the weekly trial quests since you can start joining trial groups at level 10 (not to mention you get a bunch of transmutes, slaughterstones, and possibly style pages). What I've found however is that for all the talk of the ESO community being this inclusive place that is more than willing to help new players, it sure isn't willing to let them participate in any harder content (if you can even call nAA hard).

Sorry I don't agree with you, since trials are group content and in group content you are expected to contribute and do your part, and with a level 10, 20, 30, 40 character you can't collaborate in any way.

Every single player, new or players creating alts, have a path to walk before jumping into trials.

Also don't get why you need Undaunted leveled up so in a hurry at low level, there's a reason why Undaunted pledges become available at level 45+, and you can level that skill line up really fast by doing pledges.

Agreed. I think it a normal requirement that a character be level 50 for a trial. Even base game dungeons have level requirements for queuing.

You can join the Undaunted at an early level by talking to the quest giver in Auridon, Stonefalls, or Glenumbra and then you’ll level Undaunted as you start doing the dungeons (maybe that’s common knowledge, but I had leveled many alts before discovering I could start on Undaunted at all before the invitation letter around level 43).

That’s a good reminder to unlock the guild early. On my newest character I’d done a few of the story quests from the early dungeons at a lower level without having unlocked the guild, and those rep points are now lost. I had to make up for them with other story quests and finally pledges (when I got to 45).

furiouslog · May 19

If you are on PCNA, send me a friend invite (@furiouslog), I can help with finding some people to raid with. A couple of guilds I'm in sponsor training or casual trials, and I might be able to point you in the right direction.

One of the downsides of the group finder is that the motivations of some raid leaders might be speed farming, in which case lower DPS is a detriment, even if it does not prevent a clear. If you attend scheduled raids with a stated intent that matches your abilities and your own requirements, you'll be welcome no matter what your DPS is as long as you are actively participating and trying to learn.

Desiato · May 19

furiouslog wrote: »

If you are on PCNA, send me a friend invite (@furiouslog), I can help with finding some people to raid with. A couple of guilds I'm in sponsor training or casual trials, and I might be able to point you in the right direction.

It's good of you to offer, but the OP seems to have experience raiding as they reference HM completes. So I don't think they're looking for training. They state their goal was to level undaunted on a low level character. So they're looking for a carry for that purpose.

I'm part of a couple of trial communities that offer training as well. And as nice and tolerant as they are, I'm not sure they would necessarily be receptive to filling a training slot for undaunted leveling. That's not why they volunteer their time.

Blood_again · May 19

C_Inside wrote: »

Almost every single trial group I join the leader winds up kicking me.

C_Inside wrote: »

Speaking of new platers how do these people who kick low levels think a new player that has just gathered the courage to apply for a trial will feel?

If you want a group with participation rules you like - create your group and lead it to a trial. Your group - your rules. Someone's group - accept their rules or leave.

If your heart is bleeding for newcomers in trials, they are fine. I saw many many players who started trials for the last two years. They have friends and guilds who advise and mentor them. They have no problem getting CP160 and running normals with good crafted gear and a group leader they trust.
As for PUG, this is a bad way to learn the trials. If your heart is still bleeding for new players, advise them to run their first trials with guilds, if they ask. You will help them a lot that way.

CrashTest · May 19

You're pretending there's a problem here when there isn't bc you just want a free carry from 11 others.

I'm a raid leader. I would kick you too. I have no issues bringing or teaching new or low level CP characters into trials, but I take great issue with entitled inconsiderate players, no matter what level they are.

katanagirl1 · May 19

You can level up with random daily dungeons to get Undaunted at level 10.

Such low level toons might have CP, but don’t have the proper skills unlocked and leveled up to do a proper rotation. That is likely the best reason for not including them.

spartaxoxo · May 19

There are social guilds that would take you on stuff like naked trial. The issue isn't whether you know the mechs, it's that you won't be able to contribute much since your skills aren't leveled yet. PUGs are generally looking for everyone who can at least theoretically pull their own weight. Whereas a social guild doing fun trials are just looking to have fun and probably wouldn't mind taking you.

furiouslog · May 19

Desiato wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

If you are on PCNA, send me a friend invite (@furiouslog), I can help with finding some people to raid with. A couple of guilds I'm in sponsor training or casual trials, and I might be able to point you in the right direction.

It's good of you to offer, but the OP seems to have experience raiding as they reference HM completes. So I don't think they're looking for training. They state their goal was to level undaunted on a low level character. So they're looking for a carry for that purpose.

I'm part of a couple of trial communities that offer training as well. And as nice and tolerant as they are, I'm not sure they would necessarily be receptive to filling a training slot for undaunted leveling. That's not why they volunteer their time.

I didn't take his comments as a desire to get carried as much as an observation that there are several barriers to entry which discourage newer raiders, which was the concern I was trying to address. If what he wants is to get carried in a speed run for free by a pug group, I'd agree that such an ask is unrealistic.

Dragonnord · May 19

furiouslog wrote: »

I didn't take his comments as a desire to get carried as much as an observation that there are several barriers to entry which discourage newer raiders,

Newer raider is someone interested in walking their first steps in the world of trials, get to know trials, learn mechanics, progress...

OP made clear he/she wants to use trials to level up Undaunted only.

furiouslog · May 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

I didn't take his comments as a desire to get carried as much as an observation that there are several barriers to entry which discourage newer raiders,

Newer raider is someone interested in walking their first in the world of trials, get to know trials, learn mechanics, progress...

OP made clear he/she wants to use trials to level up Undaunted only.

Well, most of the post is about newer raiders, so I'm addressing that situation. Do you find that satisfactory, or should we instead endlessly bicker about the internal semantics of the OP's vague and uncertain rant?

Never mind, I retract my offer. If there is anyone else that would like to discourage me from doing anything positive in response to this thread, don't let yourself worry about it, I won't keep trying.

dmnqwk · May 19

C_Inside wrote: »

Recently I've created an alt character that I'm leveling. In case you don't know the most efficient way to level the Undaunted skill line before hitting CP is to do the weekly trial quests since you can start joining trial groups at level 10 (not to mention you get a bunch of transmutes, slaughterstones, and possibly style pages). What I've found however is that for all the talk of the ESO community being this inclusive place that is more than willing to help new players, it sure isn't willing to let them participate in any harder content (if you can even call nAA hard).

Almost every single trial group I join the leader winds up kicking me. Keep in mind, these are normal trials I'm trying to do and I'm queuing as a DD. So not a very significant role. Even if I was only providing like 4K dps it wouldn't change anything as there are no dps checks in normal trials. Most of the time I have to explain myself and even after linking several hard mode clears I still get kicked. I honestly can't imagine how hard it must be for actual new players to start doing trials when this is what I have to deal with. Nevermind how often I have to try and defend myself from the "your dps is too low for this normal base game trial that has no dps checks" crowd. Something that a new player probably won't have the confidence to do.

Speaking of new platers how do these people who kick low levels think a new player that has just gathered the courage to apply for a trial will feel? Are they going to try again with a different group or will they just go "Well I tried, I got told to ef off. Clearly raiding isn't for me". It's no secret that ESO has a problem with player retention, which is especially felt in the end game community and this sort of behavior really isn't helping the matter. I sometimes wonder how much easier it would be to find support roles if low level trials were encouraged instead of how it is right now. The group finder for trials opens up at level 10 for God's sake!

This pedantic focus on level doesn't end once you hit CP, however. Oh no. Wanna do vAA? Better hope you're at least CP2000 with fully golded gear (including the jewelry and armor) otherwise you're not stepping foot in vet trials chief. I was recently in a vHRC pug and had to argue with the raid lead and 4 other people about a CP438 player that wanted to join. Wanna know what happened at the last boss? Most of the CP2000 people that were in the group died to Shehai Storm because they didn't know to split up. Meanwhile the CP438 didn't die once.

Bottom line is I just really wish ESO as a whole encouraged low level raiding more and that the community would be more accepting of low level raiders. Most of the best gear in the game is found in trials after all and I bet many people would stick around with ESO if Minor Slayer gear wasn't this mythical, unobtainable thing that only the top 0.01% of players have.

I have to disagree with your attitude here.

You want 11 other people to donate their free time to help someone they don't know on an activity they're not supposed to be doing.

Sure, you CAN do 12 level 10s in a trial - but they're not designed for that and so expecting to be given free reign to abuse other people's time is just plain wrong.

The points might be valid - it can be done, people should be nicer to new people - but having been both a high end raid participant, a raid leader and involved in raiding for some 15-20 years this attitude about impuning on other's time while advocating 'you should all give up your time to make the raid take twice as long for me' has never been a healthy attitude.

When gear score came out in another game I distinctly remember the kerfuffle from people demanding gear score this and that and making it tough for people to join - I spent six months leading groups from the line 'LF24M' and filling faster, finishing before and having a healthier more enjoyable time than the other groups trying to be picky... and yet, I still don't agree with your sentiment.

IF you were a fresh 50 char I would be happy to support your argument, but you're not - you're trying to abuse the low requirements of trials for personal gain at others' expense, and that's just not right.

Group with friends and people willing to donate their time for you instead, not strangers you think owe you this.

LaintalAy · May 19

Desiato wrote: »

This is completely understandable as most people use normal trials to grind gear. They want to do it as quickly as possible. They are not interested in carrying players who are grinding undaunted.

Even among level 50 characters, dps can be very low in normal trial pugs.

You may have the option of playing trials at level 10, but that doesn't exclude other players for having different requirements and expectations. It's their prerogative. If you disagree, you are free to run your own groups with requirements you think are appropriate.

Do you have statistics on what constitutes "most people" - I'd be interested in seeing the actual numbers. Otherwise, this is simply a generalisation that may or may not be correct.

"Grinding" isn't really game play. It is a personal choice to repeat content to achieve a personal goal and should be considered as a secondary goal of the team. The primary goal is to complete the trial; it's a trial of your ability to work as a team member. Arenas are single-player trials.

So what is being reinforced here is the idea that high-level, high-skill players want other high-level, high-skill players to CARRY them to a quick completion of a gear-grind. They believe that they are ENTITLED to dictate how other players can and do experience this game.

You get gear along the way, regardless of completing the trial. What is done about players who get the item that they want at the first reward and then leaving the trial before completion? They got carried, but not penalised...

Like the 'trading economy'; this is just another area where the player base corrupts the original intent of the game design.

I'm no longer interested in doing trials. Trials I have done in the past were fun and challenging, but the psychodrama associated with getting into one nowadays really isn't how I want to waste my time or energy.

Dragonnord · May 19

furiouslog wrote: »

Never mind, I retract my offer. If there is anyone else that would like to discourage me from doing anything positive in response to this thread, don't let yourself worry about it, I won't keep trying.

I get what you meant, you are always contributing greatly to these forums, I have seen it many times in your posts and responses. I apologize I you felt my comment in a way it was not intended.

Just that, same as many other users in this same thread (you can confirm that if you read all posts, bet you did), we feel the main complain of the OP is him/her not being able to go to a trial to level up Undaunted. Yes, he put other examples after, but the other examples are not like the OP says, as I have seen low CP level players (CP 400+ as the OP says and even of less level), countless times in countless trials well received, not kicked and with zero problems with groups and leaders.

MidniteOwl1913 · May 19

So at CP 2067 on a fully leveled healer I just beginning to think seriously about trials. I worry about letting the other players down, but I but I think I'm ready.

I wouldn't even consider doing a trial with an unleveled toon. I don't even start normal dungeons until I can bar-swap at level 15. And even if that character will eventually be a healer I don't run as one until I've at least hit champion level and put on my best gear.

These are of course just my opinions, but I think you are expecting the others to carry you. They are not required to and you are not entitled to their aid.

Julia_Nix · May 19

Just do dungeons. You get undaunted points for completing the quests in the dungeons. I use the addon Urich's Skill Point Finder to track completed dungeon quests on my alts.

Cooperharley · May 19

?????

Is this a thread about getting booted for trying to get into pug trials as a level 10? Cmon man

Muizer · May 19

Isn't it amusing OP? All these people disagreeing with you and in doing so proving your right

Desiato · May 19

LaintalAy wrote: »

Do you have statistics on what constitutes "most people" - I'd be interested in seeing the actual numbers. Otherwise, this is simply a generalisation that may or may not be correct.

No, I do not. It is a casual observation as someone who has been grinding normal group finder pugs recently. The culture at the moment is clearly based around completing sets.

"Grinding" isn't really game play. It is a personal choice to repeat content to achieve a personal goal and should be considered as a secondary goal of the team. The primary goal is to complete the trial; it's a trial of your ability to work as a team member. Arenas are single-player trials.

Grinding is a way to complete content. When someone grinds, they are not there for the view or the story. They are there to complete the content as quickly as possible.

So what is being reinforced here is the idea that high-level, high-skill players want other high-level, high-skill players to CARRY them to a quick completion of a gear-grind. They believe that they are ENTITLED to dictate how other players can and do experience this game.

It is rare to see highly skilled players in normal pugs! The average normal pug participant would parse poorly. Many, if not most, don't know the mechanics. There is no elitism.

When I was new to each trial, I expressed that in advanced and asked if it was OK, and I was always welcomed. The atmosphere is typically very light and welcoming. There is usually no expectation that someone is high CP or high skill for normal pugs. However, being sub-50 means they probably can't pull their own weight because they would lack skills, passives and most likely decent gear.

With that said, the leader of any group is CERTAINLY entitled to decide who they want to play with. No one is entitled to play in another player's group; only their own. We're not even entitled to play in dungeon finder groups if the other members vote us out because we don't meet their expectations.

Like the 'trading economy'; this is just another area where the player base corrupts the original intent of the game design.

There is no corruption here. Players are intended to decide who they play with, one way or another.

The irony of your post is that the greater ESO Trial community is incredibly welcoming. At least on PC/NA. I don't play on other platforms or regions. There are guilds and discord communities for every type of player. Many are mixed with experienced players regularly training and offering advice to the inexperienced.

furiouslog · May 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Never mind, I retract my offer. If there is anyone else that would like to discourage me from doing anything positive in response to this thread, don't let yourself worry about it, I won't keep trying.

I get what you meant, you are always contributing greatly to these forums, I have seen it many times in your posts and responses. I apologize I you felt me comment in a way it was not intended.

Just that, same as many other users in this same thread (you can confirm that if you read all posts, bet you did), we feel the main complain of the OP is him/her not being able to go to a trial to level up Undaunted. Yes, he put other examples after, but the other examples are not like the OP says, as I have seen low CP level players (CP 400+ as the OP says and even of less level), countless times in countless trials well received, not kicked and with zero problems with groups and leaders.

TLDR: You're good, I was just being super grumpy, my apologies for that.

To share my perception of the post, I took it as a rant of the dangers of excluding low level people in trials for fear of discouraging them. I think that's a legitimate concern. As for expecting a PUG to carry a low level character before they have any ability to make a contribution, I think that's unrealistic and unreasonable. I figured that they were asking for both, though, since a lot of it was on the newer player issues. I offered to help, because some of the guilds I associate with are fine with carrying one or two lowbies just for leveling, provided that they are regular contributors to clearing content, and that they have skills and gear that would let them play as intended.

My guild used to run public dungeons all of the time together when we were grinding skill points for lowbies, but it's pretty transactional, which I think is fair - you get as good as you give, basically. Normal trials were the same, but it seems like no one is ever trying to harvest gear before they hit CP - they wait for 160 to start farming it so that it counts, but we have occasionally dragged a sub-50 along because they wanted the Undaunted points. Once upon a time, we farmed normal trial gear for one guy who wanted the gear for a sub-50 PVP character. We've probably all done things like this with our buddies, as there is a high confidence in reciprocity.

So I guess what would be helpful is for the OP is to present the actual problem that they are trying to solve with this thread, because one issue is thoroughly conflated with the other, which caused my confusion. I think it's also because I ruled out any possibility of someone posting about how they are unhappy that they can't do what is essentially a totally selfish thing (drag down a PUG speed farm without contributing in some other way) while using unselfish narratives and constraints to justify why they should get to do that selfish thing (discouraging new players), and then subsequently calling out the entire ESO community for its moral shortcomings due to their own personal unhappiness with not getting what they want despite the fact that it's a rational and predictable outcome.

I believe that I ruled that out, because who would do such a thing so transparently? It would make no sense, because the sense of entitlement would be through the roof, and I think my brain has a blind spot there, a bias that just doesn't register that level of entitlement without additional data. So I guess I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt, and several others of you did not, although I won't judge anyone for that because humans gonna human and I am well known to be stupidly optimistic at times relative to the general population.

Anyway, perhaps they will come back and clear things up.

NoSoup · May 19

If you were level 10 I would kick you too, you don't even have bar swap yet. To be honest, complaining about getting kicked from a trial for being under lvl 50 is a bit on the nose. As far as CP I don't agree with your statements based on my personal experiences on PC|NA. CP 160 will get you into most VCraglorn trials and once you're cp 480ish will get you into most Vdlc

redlink1979 · May 19

Guilds are more tolerant than pugs. You should try joining one who runs trials on a regular basis.