Malyore wrote: »

Does anyone else also have imaginary conversations with their companions? Since I despised Azandar, I had to basically talk myself into doing his quest to get his keepsake. To do so I used a method of imagining my character talking to Ember, who is my current favorite. It makes me appreciate them more.

I definitely "respond" to some of my companions' comments, especially the goofier ones or the ones I've heard a billion times.

Me: *harvests columbine*
Bastian: What do you think you'll make with that?
Me: A crapton of money.

I also like to respond to Azandar's old man throat-clearing when we mount up by looking at him sweetly like "oh, did you say something?"

I like your idea of imagining the companions interacting with each other even though that isn't something we'll ever get in-game. I particularly like to envision Bastian and Azandar talking magic shop, until they get into a fistfight over the Psijics.

My favorite personalities are Bastian and Azander, the two most disliked ones. IDK how much that says about me.

I can't stand Mirri, she literally does not want me to play the game.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Treselegant wrote: »

I don't think community management should wade into threads known for being hot topics and stir things up. I don't really care if others still find it funny but for me - I've had enough.

The intention was not to stir things up. The joke was just to engage in light banter of the fact that Bastian's personality is not winning any favors in the poll set up. We love and care about all of the characters we create, but we also should be able to engage and poke fun at things every once in a while. In the same way everyone here should feel empowered to note the things they like or dislike about a companion's personality. Again, if the joke didn't land for you, that's fine. However I want to be clear the intention was not to cause an issue.

And I'll leave it at that. Going to bow out so the actual point of the thread can continue.

Except the poking, lack of content and communication has gone one particular way for the last few years and the 'light banter' copies the tone of some of the most toxic exchanges on forum. So no it didn't land Kevin. I'm sure ZOS won't miss my small subscription fee but since I was around for beta and have been subscriped for years, I thought it was significant to mention that the company won't be having it any more due to your post.

Malyore wrote: »

Treselegant wrote: »

but you seem to have misinterpreted this gentle prodding as being a heated debate.

I've been watching companion threads since High Isle. I've just had enough. My 'prodding' was not joking but meant as "gentle questioning". Kevin's joke was similar to the kind of nonsense that comes up in every big companion thread. There's only so many cheese jokes you can take while the content you like is left in a broken and unfinished state for years. It's a bit like going into a PVP thread as a dev rep and going, "pvp - what a joke." So yeah, completely different situation.

And as for "heated debate" no - this is just me letting a company which I given many years of patronage that their style of communication isn't for me and subsequently they won't be getting that patronage any more. That's it.

Treselegant wrote: »

I've been watching companion threads since High Isle. I've just had enough... only so many cheese jokes you can take

It's been sounding like Bastian is a big comfort character for you. If it makes you feel any better, I knew nothing about him before this thread (I didn't even know he disliked cheese!). If it hadn't been for all of the clarity and the interpretations from everyone here, I wouldn't have developed an interest for him as I have now. It may be old content for you, but it can be new for others. Some responses got me thinking, others made me chuckle. The full range of experiences has been insightful.

In the starter quest, Bastian knew when defending someone came at too great a cost to him. In that light, I don't think he'd want you to exhaust yourself constantly trying to defend his character against people who don't share the same appreciation you have for him.

If it weren't for the conflicting tastes in this thread, I would not have gotten the peace that comes from appreciating a full range of views and then deciding to delve into the discussed content after knowing what all lies within it.

Malyore wrote: »

Treselegant wrote: »

I've been watching companion threads since High Isle. I've just had enough... only so many cheese jokes you can take

It's been sounding like Bastian is a big comfort character for you. If it makes you feel any better, I knew nothing about him before this thread (I didn't even know he disliked cheese!). If it hadn't been for all of the clarity and the interpretations from everyone here, I wouldn't have developed an interest for him as I have now. It may be old content for you, but it can be new for others. Some responses got me thinking, others made me chuckle. The full range of experiences has been insightful.

In the starter quest, Bastian knew when defending someone came at too great a cost to him. In that light, I don't think he'd want you to exhaust yourself constantly trying to defend his character against people who don't share the same appreciation you have for him.

If it weren't for the conflicting tastes in this thread, I would not have gotten the peace that comes from appreciating a full range of views and then deciding to delve into the discussed content after knowing what all lies within it.

I'm sorry the thread has been somewhat derailed for you but as others have said, there has been a problem with ZOS communication around Blackwood's unfinished companions for a few years now.

I hope you do have a good time with things but yeah, I don't have any respect for a company that doesn't deliver, doesn't respond for years, then pops up with a pretty tasteless take. It's not the only problem I have with the way ZOS treats the game but sometimes it's the little things that are the last straw.

Anyways, that's all I have to say .

It doesn't matter who does or doesn't like any of the Companions. We are still free to enjoy the ones we prefer as much as we ever were.

Hmmm. I'm not sure, many of them I dislike, but Azandar irks me only because he hates to get on a mount. Like Jeeze dude, I'm not running everywhere!!! I don't know why they made that a negative with him. I have to say though Bastian and Sharp are the ones I only use. My Bastian is an incredible tank. Sharp is the best! I love his comments. "Is it always this crowded?". Makes me laugh every single time. I feel ya Sharp, I really do.

I'm actually disinclined to vote in this thread, but in regards to the subject of Bastian:

Reading through this thread thoroughly, I have to say I can see where many of the vastly different perspectives regarding Bastian's character are coming from. I am actually someone who originally did not like the character, and shared some of the more negative perceptions regarding him when he was first released. Further analysis of his quest line and personality actually made me warm up to him, because there was much about him I was not seeing on my initial play through.

I do feel that the negative perception of Bastian ends up being reinforced by some of his dialogue occurring at times where it seems inappropriate for someone with his personality. Someone else in the thread mentioned that they speak a different language than English. When this is the case, I can definitely see how misinterpretations of his tone and intentions could occur, resulting in a wildly different perception of his personality. We must remind ourselves that things like tone and inflection can vary widely between different cultures, and that what seems polite to us, may not be for another.

With that being said, I find that every discussion about Bastian- regardless of whether or not negative opinions are expressed- ends up divulging new and interesting insights into the character that I had not considered before. My enjoyment of Bastian is considerably enhanced by these talks. When someone expresses a negative point of view, and someone else counters it with their own insight, we end up furthering the understanding of others concerning him.

I credit those who discuss Bastian's positive traits on the forums with helping me to become more curious about the character. But these kinds of discussions don't happen in a vacuum.

I think I'll add my own analysis of Bastian's character to the thread. It's actually a quote from another thread where we were complimenting the complexity of the character:

I agree that he is a character with considerable subtlety and nuance that you really need to read between the lines with.

Bastian's quest is actually really enjoyable. Throughout the story, I was left with the impression that he is someone who truly believes in his ideals, and has a strong sense of honor. His ways may be rigid and seemingly inflexible, but I think this stems from an inward desire to be the opposite of everything his father was. I think Lord Martel Hallix's actions are very much a shadow over Bastian's conscience. Its actually a very well constructed plot, dealing with a character who has an interesting psychology due to his life experiences, and it's a shame that he isn't appreciated more. So much is left unsaid, but if you read into it, it definitely feels like it's there.

You are absolutely right about the flavor text you are given. After all is said and done, the dialogue you are left with is quite surface-level, and doesn't really touch on the depth of the Companion personalities. It doesn't even scratch the surface of Bastian, honestly.

I always end up feeling just a bit sad every time I finish his quests, knowing that the complex personality I watched grow throughout the plot is going to be reduced to repeating lines of dialogue. I'd really like to see additional quests with him. Perhaps something involving king Emeric, maybe even someone trying to frame him for something he didn't do because of his relation to Lord Martel. There's lots of directions that new quests with Bastian could go in.

And this is where I want to come in with how much I love @spartaxoxo 's interpretation of his character here:

This is one of the reasons I actually like him more than Isobel. It's nothing against Isobel, I like her too. I actually like all of the companions.

But often with lawful good characters they are that way because of some job or because they have an overly idealistic attitude about the world.

But Bastian is actually pretty cynical and angry at the world and his adoptive family. He wants to be lawful good because he wants to do right in a wartorn world. And he doesn't want to allow his rage to consume him. He doesn't want to be like the awful people he's met by watching over his adoptive brother.

The juxtaposition between raging against the world and wanting to do the right thing is an interesting background for a character. Reminds me a bit of Batman tbh.

This is a really excellent analysis of why Bastian is the way he is- and where the anger he seems to project at times is coming from. Oftentimes, I think that players misinterpret that anger as being directed at them, when it isn't. (A perception that probably ends up being reinforced by some of his dialogue feeling misplaced when people are in the overland with them)

With that being said, I also have a few thoughts to add to the conversation in general:

Bastian is often compared to Isobel, and I frequently see other players comment that they feel that they feel that she is meant to boost the player's ego constantly. There tends to be an implication in some of these posts (not all, some) that other players "cannot handle" criticism, or that they constantly want to be praised for their actions. I do not think this is a fair interpretation of the reasons why they enjoy Isobel.

From discussing her with other players, from an RP perspective, I have gained the impression that one of the reasons they enjoy her is because they see her as an accomplished apprentice to their own character. They like to imagine that they are helping her to see the world she longs to see, and helping her to learn more (both in combat and in life) along the way. They feel a drive to protect her, while still respecting her own prowess in combat. They often feel a mutual bond to Isobel. She has promised her sword to them, and because of that promise, the player feels they have a responsibility to her to do the same. Her honor and her devotion inspires feelings of honor and devotion in them.

They have expressed to me a desire to see Isobel grow beyond the player, while still maintaining a strong bond of friendship forged in combat and shared experience. It isn't the praise or the enthusiasm she has for the player that they like, its the feeling that she has the potential to grow to become someone of exemplary virtue and a strong sense of purpose.

I personally like her as a companion and best friend for my own Templar, because her enthusiasm and idealistic approach reminds him of himself when he was younger, and helps him to reconnect to his own ideals in his darker moments. She gives him hope- he sees the future in her.

I recognize that Bastian can actually inspire the same feelings in the players, but he has his own internal demons to fight. Where as one is left with the impression that Isobel has yet to encounter her own demons in life.

But in regards to praise- honestly, it isn't wrong to want to have positive affirmation- so if this IS the reason some people like her, more power to them. You have the right to play with a companion that gives you comfort. I understand completely that Bastian has a strong, forceful personality that can feel off putting to people who have been in situations in life where constant criticism for their every action has lead to feelings of anxiety. I get it. You are playing a game, and having someone yelling at you for accidentally picking up a "stolen" object when you never meant to, or getting mad at you for cooking with a food you like, can trigger bad memories. You just want to relax, and get away from those feelings. Taking into account that others might have feelings of trauma associated with criticism, depression, anxiety disorders, or forms of neurodivergence that might make them feel overwhelmed by it, are all important aspects to consider when discussing why other players enjoy what they enjoy. They aren't wrong for avoiding Bastian, or for favoring Isobel.

And in regards to Kevins post:

The intention was not to stir things up. The joke was just to engage in light banter of the fact that Bastian's personality is not winning any favors in the poll set up. We love and care about all of the characters we create, but we also should be able to engage and poke fun at things every once in a while. In the same way everyone here should feel empowered to note the things they like or dislike about a companion's personality. Again, if the joke didn't land for you, that's fine. However I want to be clear the intention was not to cause an issue.

And I'll leave it at that. Going to bow out so the actual point of the thread can continue.

I agree thoroughly with this sentiment. If we cannot laugh at the characters we enjoy sometimes, are we really enjoying them? I love discussions regarding characters, and enjoy seeing the passion of others concerning them. But I thoroughly recognize the humor that can be found in even the most serious of characters and darkest of topics. Growing up with a deep appreciation of the work and philosophies of our own John Cleese taught me that.

And that is all I will say in regards to Kevin's reply, as I do not wish to derail the thread either.

That was a...long, long post.

People here dislike Bastian's passive aggressive behavior, which is totally fair. But I feel like people don't keep in mind his behavior was caused by his upbringing. When you keep in mind he was raised by noble Breton as an Imperial orphan, son of a traitor, who's dealt with emotional neglect and outright hostility his whole life, well, his pass-agg comments make a lot of sense. I wrote this a while ago as a writing exercise into his character and background. I'll bold the relevant portion:

Bastian Hallix is a chivalrous man amidst un-chivalrous individuals, born and raised in un-chivalrous circumstances. He’s the son of Martel Hallix, an Imperial advisor whose treachery of the King of High Rock, Emeric of Wayrest, led to his execution and the destruction of House Hallix. Bastian was spared due to being only two-years-old at time, and has lived a life of glorified servitude and constant, distrustful scrutiny under House Silvelle as their ward.

Needing to prove himself against his father’s crimes his whole life, Bastian has internalized and developed a chivalrous, affable mien. He desires to be a force of good in Tamriel against all its evil, his own bleak upbringing serving as impetus. He’s the type of man who will help an elderly woman cross the street, rescue a kitten stuck up a tree (he in fact hates wanton cruelty against animals) and finish off his day by rescuing a passing caravan from a band of brigands. He is a goodie two-shoes adventurer whose catch-phrase might as well be, “Let’s go find someone to help,” his most commonly uttered phrase when summoned.

He is not, however, without pragmatism. Leaping into a situation without thought or strategy are just as bad as sitting idly while evil continues. Bastian constantly advises caution, preferring to assess a situation before becoming involved. If the choice is obvious enough, however, Bastian won’t hesitate to act on the side of good.

Causing pain and misery for the sake of it are odious to Bastian. Like most of his people, the Imperials, he looks down upon criminal activities, but it’s less respect for the law and more an unwillingness to engage in the evilness such crimes require. Killing without purpose, thought, or care are particularly odious to Bastian. This singular action loses him the most rapport with the player.

Bastian has anger problems, most apparent when dealing with Quistley Silvelle, his foster brother, and in battle. He’s worked hard to rein it in through magical and martial training, but it’s a struggle when constantly dealing with criminals and world-ending threats. His class, Dragonknight, actively taps on his anger and frustration. This is most obvious with his Ultimate, Unleashed Rage. In the courts of Breton nobility it is gauche to openly display anger, so Bastian has, unfortunately, developed a tendency for passive aggressive commentary instead.

His upbringing was a lonely affair. He sought solace in his studies, trained formally as a battlemage and a sword-and-board knight. He’s an incredibly curious individual, always willing to learn new skills and meet new people. Travel fascinates him, cutting his teeth all over Tamriel as a ‘problem fixer’ for House Silvelle for years now. That problem, however, usually takes on the form of Quistley Silvelle, the libertine son and heir to House Silvelle.

After discovering the Silvelles lied to him his entire life about his sister’s death and his mother’s lack of plan for his future, Bastian cut ties with House Silvelle. For the first time in a long time Bastian is hopeful about his future, finally putting his father’s ghost to rest, and reuniting with his long-thought-death sister.

Like someone said up thread, I like Bastian because he has his own demons to fight, he comes across as a seasoned warrior due to that (plus all the traveling). I'm meh on Isobel and Ember because I don't play characters looking to mentor others, but characters who want adventuring partners who can hold their own.

tl;dr: Bastian, I like him. My husband is also a ginger with a similar personality, particularly his drive to protect others, so I liked him from the get-go. His background/story quests being only made me fall in love with him more.