oldbobdude wrote: »

My opinion is normals are end game for casuals. I’m sure min/maxers will consider their endgame vet trials and progression groups.

Endgame is not subjective person-to-person. What endgame communities they are in may differ but there is no “endgame trials for casuals”. There’s a reason why people tend to use “casual” and “endgamer” as opposites as opposed to “casual” and “hardcore” in ESO. Almost any casual can become an endgamer. That’s what happened to me. Overland questing with my 5pc lvl 45 livewire + trappings of invigoration now nearly 5 years later got 3 trial tris and every dungeon tri. It’s the same continuous spectrum for everyone regardless on where you’re on it.
Where the breaks are on the spectrum are debatable but it still wouldn’t differ person-to-person based on the definition of endgame, the continuous experience of moving through the game no matter where you started, and the fact that there’s no “endgame normal content” community— it’s just in social guilds as far as I know but even then there’s always vet and hm and trifecta above normal.

I am an officer in a guild that exists primarily to answer questions and help new players navigate the byzantine experience of Early Game ESO. I organize normal trials about twice a week in this guild.

My primary goal in ESO right now is to help newer players understand that normal trials are well within their abilities. We don't have DPS requirements (they are actually against our rules). I don't have level requirements. You can enter trials at level 3, after all. The game scales you up aggressively. I also don't have any experience requirements. All of my runs are learning runs.

We have cleared Dreadsail Reef with two tanks who had never tanked a trial before. They had fun. We have cleared DLC trials with a momentary group DPS maximum of 110k. We have cleared trials with 10 people and 2 companions because I picked an unpopular time slot. We have wiped on Z'Maja twice, adapted our strategy, and then succeeded. We don't offer unsolicited advice, but we do answer questions and help people who ask for it.

It is absolutely against my interests to let people claim normal trials are endgame content without challenge. I constantly hear from people who thought they'd never do 12-person content that it was fun, that it was easier than they thought, that it wasn't scary after all. One of the greatest joys I get from ESO is this kind of response. I know it's not technically for everyone, but it is definitely for a lot of people who assume it isn't.

I am no End Game player. (I don't do vet trials and I struggle in vet DLC dungeons.) I'm a crafter main who would rather pick flowers and do daily writs than almost anything else. But seeing beginners learn how to play as a team is what makes me love ESO.

I know I won't convince anyone in this thread. But forum posting is largely a performative act and I want everyone reading this thread to understand: There is a place for you in normal trials no matter what your ability level. You might not find it in Craglorn or the Activity Finder, but it is out there. You can find a safe space. You can find good people. And you can absolutely participate in and contribute to completing normal trials right now, just as you are.

I run trials in a social guild on a friday night - naked, themed, all healers, all tanks (slow) bring your pets to work, all baby characters (under level 50). I set no requirements for any of them and they are successful. I don't see the normal craglorns as any harder than base normal dungeons, they just have more people in them

my guidelines on every post for signup (note I am on playstation hence the headphones as we use group chat)

Anyone of any experience can join, but this isn't a full training trial, so just go with the flow 🙂

Not first come first serve, I will try and prioritise people who didn't play last week after key roles are filled

please be on headset even if you aren't on mic so that you can hear instructions and our bad jokes and singing

We don't care if you die, bring lots of soul gems and a sense of humour

I don't really know what "endgame" means, but normal trials do require some skill or knowledge. I have only played trials at normal difficulty and it's not at all unusual, in that experience, for the group to quit before completion, because we're getting wiped out.

With some groups, a player doesn't need to understand that trial's distinct mechanics. But I discover new mechanics on my second, third, fourth etc runs, because the first group I joined for that trial was way more competent and carried me through it.

That shadow realm stuff with Z'Maja? I presume that on my first visit, either some players did it without planning it with the whole group or the DPS rate was fast enough to skip it (probably the former). In my last visit to the Halls of Fabrication (which requires some communication at the best of times), my character got killed by his own spells against some calefactors. That just didn't happen previously. Whereas we had no trouble with that boss the three tethered robots and don’t remember what issue was before.

Then there’s the first boss of the Maw of Lorkhaj, whose name ironically eludes me, even I though I still feel sorry for him. In the Infinite Archive, his copy has one of those “you instantly die for some reason” abilities, so I looked up a solution. I have played the MoL more than almost any trial, but we have never needed to take cover.

An individual player can participate in trials without knowing what they’re doing. A group can’t.

Yes, all trials are endgame content by definition. There is nothing beyond them. Endgame content, as everything else, can have different modes, but it's endgame nonetheless.

Based on the comments above, I guess many of those who clicked "no" were actually answering the question "Do you consider normal Trials to be difficult", which is not the same thing.

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Sadly as veteran newer trails become for complex in mechanics less zone chances to engage with them as there is always a "share achievement". By an large its difficult to get into guild trials as well as its usually a very tight group.

So sad. Would really like to run some of them with a group of people that are not going to kick me for smallest mistake

thats not true, there seems to have been a slump in many guild trials lately with not enough signing up to get the vet trial started on the day in guild when the event organizers are more than willing to explain everything every step of the way and never kick it has just become the norm now for me to see cancelled each week next to any vet trials due to lack of sign ups

you can still die in normal trials without doing mechanics like the portals in the Z'maja fight.

so im confused why anyone here thinks you can ignore mechanics

endgame though seems like it's subjective. so both poll options are correct at the same time.

End game for me is what I'm happy doing, Maybe happy is not the right word as I pvp. That is my end game, Its the only reason I farm gear, Do pve stuff is to fuel my endeavours into killing other players. Trials aren't even in the equation.

Strictly speaking, Normal trials are not endgame content because there are harder possibilities (Veteran versions for one). On the other hand they require groups (apologies to anyone who has soloed one; hats off to you). To elements of the player base the are endgame content for exactly that reason. Neither is wrong; that's just the way things are.

I have no first hand experience with trials yet, so can't vote, but I want to ask a question to Veteran trial runners and Solo players:

Is Normal Asylum Sanctorium "easily" soloable?

I saw a video of the Saint Olms fight but could not get the level of difficulty - it was on Normal, but was it something many could achieve with the right setup and mindset?

I'm curious to try but since my arms hurt I don't want to go for too much for me.
Best I did is probably to solo Inkslayer. Is nAS more difficult than that to solo?

If anyone can give experienced insight on this would be much appreciated.
If I am too off-topic, sorry, maybe I'll open a thread about this...

SilverBride wrote: »

I consider all trials endgame content. They are a group activity and normal trials are entry level endgame. I know they are easy for geared and experienced players but they are not for many.

I’ve played MANY trials where people were < level 50. Definitely not end game.

End game PvE activities constitute veteran activity. Is a normal dungeon (fungal grotto) at level 10 end game activity? No.

Dragonnord wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

you can still die in normal trials without doing mechanics like the portals in the Z'maja fight.

so im confused why anyone here thinks you can ignore mechanics

endgame though seems like it's subjective. so both poll options are correct at the same time.

You can also die in World Bosses if you don't do their mechs, even super old bosses like the Guar in Deshaan, and I didn't read anyone, not even one person, saying that world bosses are endgame.

They even asked to replace the trials endeavors with killing x amount of world bosses.

So if a boss is behind a loading screen (you need one to get into trials) is endgame but if the same boss is in open overland (no loading screen) is not endgame and it's OK having 30 WB's kills as endeavors.
 

yea clearly endgame is subjective like i said

Then, if subjective, people should not open threads blaming, complaining and saying "ZOS, you didn't add an option for non-endgame" like if endgame/non-endgame is a fact on what it is, when you just said it's subjective if something is or not endgame. ;-)
 
 
 

i have not seen consistent definitions for Casual or Endgame. so it all seems subjective to me.

and the thread about weekly endeavours is asking for more choices at all. as not everyone does trials or pvp. regardless of whether or not those things are endgame.

which i think has already been said there multiple times so unsure why you're bringing it up in another post.

Dragonnord wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

you can still die in normal trials without doing mechanics like the portals in the Z'maja fight.

so im confused why anyone here thinks you can ignore mechanics

endgame though seems like it's subjective. so both poll options are correct at the same time.

You can also die in World Bosses if you don't do their mechs, even super old bosses like the Guar in Deshaan, and I didn't read anyone, not even one person, saying that world bosses are endgame.

They even asked to replace the trials endeavors with killing x amount of world bosses.

So if a boss is behind a loading screen (you need one to get into trials) is endgame but if the same boss is in open overland (no loading screen) is not endgame and it's OK having 30 WB's kills as endeavors.
 

yea clearly endgame is subjective like i said

Then, if subjective, people should not open threads blaming, complaining and saying "ZOS, you didn't add an option for non-endgame" like if endgame/non-endgame is a fact on what it is, when you just said it's subjective if something is or not endgame. ;-)
 
 
 

i have not seen consistent definitions for Casual or Endgame. so it all seems subjective to me.

and the thread about weekly endeavours is asking for more choices at all. as not everyone does trials or pvp. regardless of whether or not those things are endgame.

which i think has already been said there multiple times so unsure why you're bringing it up in another post.

There are specific requests to remove the trials endeavor and change that one specifically for something non-endgame (suitable for casuals).
 

ah i have not seen those.

so then it would be better to have an extra choice instead.
like 4 endeavors instead of 3