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Weekly Endeavors week beginning 19/02/24 - Not for Casual Gamers!
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SkaiFaith✭✭✭✭✭
✭Laivine_Aldaron wrote: »This discussion leads nowhere I am afraid.
This week is the perfect opportunity for guilds to take over and organize community events in Cyro, IC and casual trial runs for everyone.
This is the time to get people to love the game modes you love as well and gather fresh players who stick forever, without salt and toxicity. Just for fun!
But I guess this is not the spirit of ESO community. Has this thing ever happened before? because from where I come from, this was a daily practice. It would be nice to have something similar here as well.
If you are new here, first of all: welcome! Hope you enjoy your stay
About what you are asking, don't worry, the forums are not the game. The atmosphere in game is often wildly different than what you see here, especially if you join active guilds. You'll have a fun time, for the most part.Dragonnord wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
Did.... did you read my full reply? I gave you two videos of inexperienced players completing normal AA in 20 minutes. It takes about five minutes to get a normal Craglorn trial filled, and will probably take even less time to fill it this week. It doesn't take "a couple of hours" to do a single normal trial, let alone four.
On the topic of doing Trials this week, since I am totally inexperienced with Trials and I only solo Dungeons I want to ask you if you think I could pug normal Trials "at ease", because I always see people complaining even about simple Dungeons pugs "that take forever". I'm quite scared of pugging Trials, especially since I don't like having to interact with others in chat.
I can carry myself but I would be a high level noob not knowing mechanics etc...
I'm not asking about difficulty, but the social and role aspect, since I only have solo builds and would prefer to avoid dramas.
About difficulty the question is more about: can normal Trials be soloed? The only one I know of is Asylum Sanctorum.
Your answer to this could be useful to others this week, maybe.
- note: don't count group forming time, since on every platform is very different: I am Xbox EU and I'm sure it would take longer than on PC.
People aren't exactly complaining about dungeon PUGS the same though. People are complaining about dungeon PUGS formed via the random dungeon tool which has the potential of varying goals between group members.
Dungeon/Trial PUGs formed in zone have a single goal that can be opted into directly by accepting or declining to join the group. For Trials, it is mostly completion or gear farming. So joining that group, any complaints will come from a player deviating from the pre-agreed upon basis for the group. But the choice exists in the overland PUG formation to self select for groups that cater to the run you want, or to start your own that fits your needs.
[edited to remove quote]
Oooh, I see now... Thanks for the reply!
So is there a standard that is fair to assume a Trial pug would aim for?
If I see someone forming a Trial pug in Group Finder, what should I prepare myself for if it's not clearly stated? Generally speaking... Just to know if hardcore players participate in that and could scold me, or if it is a more casual play style where you can make mistakes, and maybe enjoy the quest...
As you pointed out, pugging random normals can put you in a situation where some want to run and others "walk". How is the vibe between people pugging Trials? More chill and welcoming?
One fear I have is, since I'm CP 2.000+, that I may end up being the highest level and people put hopes I don't deserve on me XDA: "We, as humans, should respect and take care of each other like in a Co-op, not a PvP 🌸"
B: "Many words. Words bad. Won't read. ⚔️"1 -
jad11mumbler✭✭✭✭✭Zos has been pretty anti-casual since Necrom came out, so should these “choices” really be that much of a surprise?
I honestly have no idea how you can possibly believe that.
About 95% of the game is completely designed around casual players.
Unless casual for you means the same as horrible at the game.
There are two parallel threads about this topic and I wrote this response there:
“ With Necrom zos has;
-Heavily nerfed oak/ha builds again.
-Made World Events into a semi dungeon experience.
-Made wbs more difficult, with reduced rewards making them less farmable.
-Turned the 3rd (4th?) quarter questing zone into an arena environment (IA).
-Placed housing plans and housing materials in IA.”
So yes, Necrom has been terrible for casual players.
You can’t keep doing this stuff to casual players and not have some sort of push back.
Lol what.
191 characters and counting.2 -
jad11mumbler✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »No one is asking that there not be an end game and a PvP option. But telling us that we do not have a right to a more general option as there has been since endeavors were introduced, and that we should all be meta and can run a veteran trial in 5 minutes and that everyone should be able to successfully PvP is not reasonable or helpful.
Where does it say to run a veteran trial in 5 minutes?
All I see is complete 4 trials, which is pretty easy and straightforward for many of them.
191 characters and counting.3 -
jad11mumbler✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »So yeah, not sure at all what point you're trying to make here, because all of the options you've listed are more time consuming and "difficult" (due to the time investment required and real money investment required) than any of the three options up for grabs this week, and ultra casual players would absolutely complain about them.
Difficulty is subjective.
I find trials to be difficult and time consuming. I also find PvP in Cyrodiil to be difficult and time consuming. The fact that others may have a different opinion or experience doesn't magically make their view true for me.
The real complaint is being completely lost by telling us why the other options are enough. Those options are fine for many but not for everyone.
The real issue is that this is the first week that there has not been a more general option for the weekly endeavor and it is negatively affecting a lot of players.
Why not just skip a week?
I've skipped dozens and it hasn't affected how I play or enjoy the game.191 characters and counting.6 -
Shara_Wynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shara_Wynn wrote: »Shara_Wynn wrote: »Shara_Wynn wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »
15 kills in cyrodiil is super easy and fast. Took me 10 minutes today. If you don't want to PvP, do two normal trials. It will take a lot longer than the 15 kills in cyro, but it's still super easy as well. These are not hard tasks to complete. ESO+ does not entitle a player to free rewards without having to play the game.
I wasn't asking for free rewards and nowhere in any of my posts, did I ever state that I wanted free rewards. I just wanted more balance in the tasks needed to earn the rewards. I am happy to play the game, but never has ESO been advertised as a PVP experience so I fail to see how it is being unreasonable or entitled to expect a non-pvp route to obtaining weekly endeavors that doesn't involve grouping with 12 other people to complete four Trials.
Uhhhh… Cyrodiil and the Alliance War was ESO’s original end game, and was advertised as such… ESO has been a PVP experience from the start. Some of the devs who worked on developing ESO/Cyrodiil also worked on DAoC, another triple faction PVP-focused MMO.
Read this article from 2013: https://www.gameskinny.com/culture/elder-scrolls-online-and-the-legacy-of-daoc/
That might have been the case back in 2013, however a quick scroll through https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates shows no mention of PVP outside of one DLC, that being Imperial City.
The vast majority of content in TESO is non PVP so for me, coming into the game, ESO was very much sold as PVE experience and their DLC list further reinforces that point.
Yeah, and I started playing ESO back in Beta, when this WAS advertised as a PVP game, so you were still incorrect in stating that this has “never” been advertised as a PVP game. Never means not ever. The game’s advertising history does not date back to when you personally started playing ESO.
ESO to me has never been advertised as a PVP game. And anyone can go to their website and look through the descriptions for all the DLC's since Imperial City to see that it has not been advertised as a PVP game for a long time. So I don't think what was advertised in Beta is really relevant anymore to most people.
Here is your original quote:never has ESO been advertised as a PVP experience
That is an objectively false statement, and I was merely correcting it. Words matter. Never means not ever. It is irrelevant that the PVP aspects of the game were not advertised when you first started playing the game, and it is irrelevant that the game has, over time, increasingly neglected PVP in favour of PVE. The fact remains that PVP was at one time a core feature of the game's original conception. It was proudly referred to in media as a successor to DAoC. Many of us who were here at the start who enjoy PVP have not forgotten that objective fact. So saying "never has ESO been advertised as a PVP experience" is incorrect. That is all.
Granted, my use of the word "never" was wrong. My main point still stands however, that ESO is no longer really advertised as a PVP game.
Yes...
Dark Age of Camelot...
*shudders*
Still it wasn't as bad as...
Asheron's Call...
*shudders even more*
I'm afraid I am very much a carebear when it comes to MMORPG's, which is why I chose to play ESO
Edited by Shara_Wynn on February 19, 2024 7:39PMAlchemy says "Hi".3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shara_Wynn wrote: »1. Kill 15 players in Cyrodiil
2. Defeat 7 Patrolling Horrors in the Imperial City Districts
3. Complete 4 Trials
I get that it is WSM/MYM this week but really? Two out of the three weekly endeavors are PVP based and the third is Trials.
Nothing for the casual gamer this week then.
I get that the third option isn't PVP but Trials are also something which many casual players simply don't engage in. As such many of us will be locked out of earning the 250 endeavors this week.
Disappointed.
I'm having a hard time coming up with worse choices than these for the casual player.
Can anyone think of a recent Weekly Endeavor that would be worse than this week's three, for a casual player who does not PvP or do group PvE such as Trials?
Someone actually came up with some worse options for the casual player earlier in this very thread. They involved: fully decorating a house, with all slots used (which would force players to purchase ESO+); fully completing four zone story lines (very time consuming); and completing 50 daily writ quests (which would necessitate making multiple alts and levelling them to the point of being able to do writs, if you only have one character and only have a few days in the week to play). Fortunately, the actual endeavors this week are all much easier to do, and do not at all necessitate regular participation in trials or PVP!3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jad11mumbler wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »No one is asking that there not be an end game and a PvP option. But telling us that we do not have a right to a more general option as there has been since endeavors were introduced, and that we should all be meta and can run a veteran trial in 5 minutes and that everyone should be able to successfully PvP is not reasonable or helpful.
Where does it say to run a veteran trial in 5 minutes?
All I see is complete 4 trials, which is pretty easy and straightforward for many of them.
It doesn't say run a trial in 5 minutes but we are repeatedly being told how fast an easy trials are, which isn't the topic of this thread and doesn't address the fact that there is no general option for the weekly for the first time.PCNA3 -
SkaiFaith✭✭✭✭✭
✭
On the topic of doing Trials this week, since I am totally inexperienced with Trials and I only solo Dungeons I want to ask you if you think I could pug normal Trials "at ease", because I always see people complaining even about simple Dungeons pugs "that take forever". I'm quite scared of pugging Trials, especially since I don't like having to interact with others in chat.
I can carry myself but I would be a high level noob not knowing mechanics etc...
I'm not asking about difficulty, but the social and role aspect, since I only have solo builds and would prefer to avoid dramas.
About difficulty the question is more about: can normal Trials be soloed? The only one I know of is Asylum Sanctorum.
Your answer to this could be useful to others this week, maybe.
- note: don't count group forming time, since on every platform is very different: I am Xbox EU and I'm sure it would take longer than on PC.
Did you watch any of the videos I posted? Those are pug runs. Did they look scary or intimidating to you? That one player was more hyped up and distracted by the bookcases than anything going on in the trial! Normal Craglorn trials are very easy to PUG (as a DPS or healer). Tanks are really the only ones who would have to read up on the mechanics. Just go for it! If you were on PC NA, I'd happily take you through any of the normal Craglorn trials. People only really care about builds and rotations in difficult content. Normal Craglorn trials are not difficult content. I'll add that it's easier, too, to hide weak DPS in a 12 man Craglorn trial (versus, say, a normal 4 man dungeon), so your chances of getting singled out over anything are slim to none. I can't remember when last I ever even saw anyone talking in a Craglorn trial. People just run them to fill out their sticker books these days.
[edited for baiting]
Thanks for the offer anyway
Good to know I have to avoid being tank, and that the experience can be "chill".A: "We, as humans, should respect and take care of each other like in a Co-op, not a PvP 🌸"
B: "Many words. Words bad. Won't read. ⚔️"0 -
daim✭✭✭✭✭Shara_Wynn wrote: »1. Kill 15 players in Cyrodiil
2. Defeat 7 Patrolling Horrors in the Imperial City Districts
3. Complete 4 Trials
I get that it is WSM/MYM this week but really? Two out of the three weekly endeavors are PVP based and the third is Trials.
Nothing for the casual gamer this week then.
I get that the third option isn't PVP but Trials are also something which many casual players simply don't engage in. As such many of us will be locked out of earning the 250 endeavors this week.
Disappointed.
+1
If it even was 7 dungeons instead Trials it would be better - but having TWO pvp goals .. why ? I hope the feedback has been read and this wont happen again. Or do you not want us the do the endeavours anymore ?""I am that which grips the heart in fright, hearkens night and silences the light." It was written on my sword, long…long ago." ―Ajunta Pall
PC|EU5 -
jad11mumbler✭✭✭✭✭Or do you not want us the do the endeavours anymore ?
ZoS adds ONE week of endeavours that isn't for you, and you're calling it quits as if the world is ending?
Notably, during the one PvP event in the game.
80%+ of the game, daily log in rewards, community event rewards, events, SO MUCH, in this game is catered mainly to casuals.
And the moment something isn't you guys are up in arms?Edited by jad11mumbler on February 19, 2024 8:10PM191 characters and counting.7 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shara_Wynn wrote: »Shara_Wynn wrote: »Shara_Wynn wrote: »Shara_Wynn wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »
15 kills in cyrodiil is super easy and fast. Took me 10 minutes today. If you don't want to PvP, do two normal trials. It will take a lot longer than the 15 kills in cyro, but it's still super easy as well. These are not hard tasks to complete. ESO+ does not entitle a player to free rewards without having to play the game.
I wasn't asking for free rewards and nowhere in any of my posts, did I ever state that I wanted free rewards. I just wanted more balance in the tasks needed to earn the rewards. I am happy to play the game, but never has ESO been advertised as a PVP experience so I fail to see how it is being unreasonable or entitled to expect a non-pvp route to obtaining weekly endeavors that doesn't involve grouping with 12 other people to complete four Trials.
Uhhhh… Cyrodiil and the Alliance War was ESO’s original end game, and was advertised as such… ESO has been a PVP experience from the start. Some of the devs who worked on developing ESO/Cyrodiil also worked on DAoC, another triple faction PVP-focused MMO.
Read this article from 2013: https://www.gameskinny.com/culture/elder-scrolls-online-and-the-legacy-of-daoc/
That might have been the case back in 2013, however a quick scroll through https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates shows no mention of PVP outside of one DLC, that being Imperial City.
The vast majority of content in TESO is non PVP so for me, coming into the game, ESO was very much sold as PVE experience and their DLC list further reinforces that point.
Yeah, and I started playing ESO back in Beta, when this WAS advertised as a PVP game, so you were still incorrect in stating that this has “never” been advertised as a PVP game. Never means not ever. The game’s advertising history does not date back to when you personally started playing ESO.
ESO to me has never been advertised as a PVP game. And anyone can go to their website and look through the descriptions for all the DLC's since Imperial City to see that it has not been advertised as a PVP game for a long time. So I don't think what was advertised in Beta is really relevant anymore to most people.
Here is your original quote:never has ESO been advertised as a PVP experience
That is an objectively false statement, and I was merely correcting it. Words matter. Never means not ever. It is irrelevant that the PVP aspects of the game were not advertised when you first started playing the game, and it is irrelevant that the game has, over time, increasingly neglected PVP in favour of PVE. The fact remains that PVP was at one time a core feature of the game's original conception. It was proudly referred to in media as a successor to DAoC. Many of us who were here at the start who enjoy PVP have not forgotten that objective fact. So saying "never has ESO been advertised as a PVP experience" is incorrect. That is all.
Granted, my use of the word "never" was wrong. My main point still stands however, that ESO is no longer really advertised as a PVP game.
Now this I will agree with. You're right: PVP has taken a back seat, to the point where we only have a couple of events per year, to the point where PVP players are usually neglected in updates, to the point where we rarely see PVP-related endeavors (beyond the occasional "kill one player in Cyrodiil" or "complete five battlegrounds" variety). So to see the forums imploding with negativity and toxicity because this ONE time, immediately before a PVP event, there are multiple PVP-related endeavors to do this week... yeah, it's a little disheartening to say the least. If the threads aren't complaining about endeavors, they're asking for PVP events to be outright cancelled. Do you guys not see how... well, negative that is? We don't bombard the forums any time there is a PVE event or PVE-related endeavors. All we're asking for is some basic respect.
Anyway, folks, I get it: if you don't like PVP, it obviously sucks that that two of your weekly endeavor options are PVP-related this week and this week alone. BUT! Four trials? Very easy, very doable! Normal Craglorn trials: anyone can do them.
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SpacemanSpiff1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ishtarknows wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »Do normal trials
Or just find a zerg of your alliance in cyro and just light attack enemy players. Pretty sure you don't need killing blows just to do something.
Will take 5 minutes.
That assumes you can find a zerg. Not a safe assumption!
Just look at the map then, and follow the action
be proactive? you ask the impossible.3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Laivine_Aldaron wrote: »This discussion leads nowhere I am afraid.
This week is the perfect opportunity for guilds to take over and organize community events in Cyro, IC and casual trial runs for everyone.
This is the time to get people to love the game modes you love as well and gather fresh players who stick forever, without salt and toxicity. Just for fun!
But I guess this is not the spirit of ESO community. Has this thing ever happened before? because from where I come from, this was a daily practice. It would be nice to have something similar here as well.
If you are new here, first of all: welcome! Hope you enjoy your stay
About what you are asking, don't worry, the forums are not the game. The atmosphere in game is often wildly different than what you see here, especially if you join active guilds. You'll have a fun time, for the most part.Dragonnord wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
Did.... did you read my full reply? I gave you two videos of inexperienced players completing normal AA in 20 minutes. It takes about five minutes to get a normal Craglorn trial filled, and will probably take even less time to fill it this week. It doesn't take "a couple of hours" to do a single normal trial, let alone four.
On the topic of doing Trials this week, since I am totally inexperienced with Trials and I only solo Dungeons I want to ask you if you think I could pug normal Trials "at ease", because I always see people complaining even about simple Dungeons pugs "that take forever". I'm quite scared of pugging Trials, especially since I don't like having to interact with others in chat.
I can carry myself but I would be a high level noob not knowing mechanics etc...
I'm not asking about difficulty, but the social and role aspect, since I only have solo builds and would prefer to avoid dramas.
About difficulty the question is more about: can normal Trials be soloed? The only one I know of is Asylum Sanctorum.
Your answer to this could be useful to others this week, maybe.
- note: don't count group forming time, since on every platform is very different: I am Xbox EU and I'm sure it would take longer than on PC.
People aren't exactly complaining about dungeon PUGS the same though. People are complaining about dungeon PUGS formed via the random dungeon tool which has the potential of varying goals between group members.
Dungeon/Trial PUGs formed in zone have a single goal that can be opted into directly by accepting or declining to join the group. For Trials, it is mostly completion or gear farming. So joining that group, any complaints will come from a player deviating from the pre-agreed upon basis for the group. But the choice exists in the overland PUG formation to self select for groups that cater to the run you want, or to start your own that fits your needs.
[edited to remove quote]
Oooh, I see now... Thanks for the reply!
So is there a standard that is fair to assume a Trial pug would aim for?
If I see someone forming a Trial pug in Group Finder, what should I prepare myself for if it's not clearly stated? Generally speaking... Just to know if hardcore players participate in that and could scold me, or if it is a more casual play style where you can make mistakes, and maybe enjoy the quest...
As you pointed out, pugging random normals can put you in a situation where some want to run and others "walk". How is the vibe between people pugging Trials? More chill and welcoming?
One fear I have is, since I'm CP 2.000+, that I may end up being the highest level and people put hopes I don't deserve on me XD
There aren't really any expectations for normal trial pugs (unless they clearly state them in the group finder, or in the zone advertisements). If you want to, you can tell folks it's your first time doing the trial. I see that quite often, and it's actually very helpful, as those of us with more experience can alert you to anything that's necessary to do to advance in the trial (e.g. stepping on the platforms/pads in AA). If you'd rather not communicate at all, though, that's totally fine. You can always read some guides or watch some videos to know what to expect (watch the normal versions, though, not veteran HM), but that's also not strictly necessary. Stuff just dies so quickly.
I personally find normal trials way less prone to speed runners than random normal dungeons. People do RNDs fast on multiple characters for the transmute stones, and they just want to get through them as quickly as possible. There's really no "incentive" to do normal Craglorn trials, outside of farming gear or just experiencing the trial.Edited by Aurielle on February 19, 2024 8:19PM3 -
Drammanoth✭✭✭✭✭You do guys realise that it takes a group and half an hour to complete this endeavour, don't you?
I've just done it.
3 -
SkaiFaith✭✭✭✭✭
✭Laivine_Aldaron wrote: »This discussion leads nowhere I am afraid.
This week is the perfect opportunity for guilds to take over and organize community events in Cyro, IC and casual trial runs for everyone.
This is the time to get people to love the game modes you love as well and gather fresh players who stick forever, without salt and toxicity. Just for fun!
But I guess this is not the spirit of ESO community. Has this thing ever happened before? because from where I come from, this was a daily practice. It would be nice to have something similar here as well.
If you are new here, first of all: welcome! Hope you enjoy your stay
About what you are asking, don't worry, the forums are not the game. The atmosphere in game is often wildly different than what you see here, especially if you join active guilds. You'll have a fun time, for the most part.Dragonnord wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
Did.... did you read my full reply? I gave you two videos of inexperienced players completing normal AA in 20 minutes. It takes about five minutes to get a normal Craglorn trial filled, and will probably take even less time to fill it this week. It doesn't take "a couple of hours" to do a single normal trial, let alone four.
On the topic of doing Trials this week, since I am totally inexperienced with Trials and I only solo Dungeons I want to ask you if you think I could pug normal Trials "at ease", because I always see people complaining even about simple Dungeons pugs "that take forever". I'm quite scared of pugging Trials, especially since I don't like having to interact with others in chat.
I can carry myself but I would be a high level noob not knowing mechanics etc...
I'm not asking about difficulty, but the social and role aspect, since I only have solo builds and would prefer to avoid dramas.
About difficulty the question is more about: can normal Trials be soloed? The only one I know of is Asylum Sanctorum.
Your answer to this could be useful to others this week, maybe.
- note: don't count group forming time, since on every platform is very different: I am Xbox EU and I'm sure it would take longer than on PC.
People aren't exactly complaining about dungeon PUGS the same though. People are complaining about dungeon PUGS formed via the random dungeon tool which has the potential of varying goals between group members.
Dungeon/Trial PUGs formed in zone have a single goal that can be opted into directly by accepting or declining to join the group. For Trials, it is mostly completion or gear farming. So joining that group, any complaints will come from a player deviating from the pre-agreed upon basis for the group. But the choice exists in the overland PUG formation to self select for groups that cater to the run you want, or to start your own that fits your needs.
[edited to remove quote]
Oooh, I see now... Thanks for the reply!
So is there a standard that is fair to assume a Trial pug would aim for?
If I see someone forming a Trial pug in Group Finder, what should I prepare myself for if it's not clearly stated? Generally speaking... Just to know if hardcore players participate in that and could scold me, or if it is a more casual play style where you can make mistakes, and maybe enjoy the quest...
As you pointed out, pugging random normals can put you in a situation where some want to run and others "walk". How is the vibe between people pugging Trials? More chill and welcoming?
One fear I have is, since I'm CP 2.000+, that I may end up being the highest level and people put hopes I don't deserve on me XD
There aren't really any expectations for normal trial pugs (unless they clearly state them in the group finder, or in the zone advertisements). If you want to, you can tell folks it's your first time doing the trial. I see that quite often, and it's actually very helpful, as those of us with more experience can alert you to anything that's necessary to do to advance in the trial (e.g. stepping on the platforms/pads in AA). If you'd rather not communicate at all, though, that's totally fine. You can always read some guides or watch some videos to know what to expect (watch the normal versions, though, not veteran HM), but that's also not strictly necessary. Stuff just dies so quickly.
I personally find normal trials way less prone to speed runners than random normal dungeons. People do RNDs fast on multiple characters for the transmute stones, and they just want to get through them as quickly as possible. There's really no "incentive" to do normal Craglorn trials, outside of farming gear or just experiencing the trial.
Thank you very much for the explanation!
I guess the Craglorn Trials are in fact THE trial to Trials; confusing but hopefully makes sense, somehow XD
Then it's sad that so many people like me are scared by them. I bet there are Trials enjoyers that would be happy to have more players to "add to their fodders".A: "We, as humans, should respect and take care of each other like in a Co-op, not a PvP 🌸"
B: "Many words. Words bad. Won't read. ⚔️"0 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
Did.... did you read my full reply? I gave you two videos of inexperienced players completing normal AA in 20 minutes. It takes about five minutes to get a normal Craglorn trial filled, and will probably take even less time to fill it this week. It doesn't take "a couple of hours" to do a single normal trial, let alone four.
Ok, but that player probably knew what AA is. I don't even know that. I get the nXX is normal, but other than that I have no clue. Imposing that level of ignorance on 11 other people would be rude in my opinion. I would prefer not to do that.
PS5/NA2 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Drammanoth wrote: »You do guys realise that it takes a group and half an hour to complete this endeavour, don't you?
I've just done it.
which endeavour? there are 3miaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).
🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
"Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
🦬🦌🐰
PlayStation and PC EU.
LunaLolaBlossom on psn.
LunaFloraBlossom on pc.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are no two ways about it, this was poor planning by ZOS.
I disagree. Normal trials are fairly easy content. I have seen under level 50s clear NCR.
It is often the case that none of the endeavors involve a trial/PvP and that receives no complaints. So I think it's okay if during events it's the other way around. It encourages more people to give PvP a try. And those that really and truly can't step foot in PvP for various mostly legitimate reasons, there is still an easy third endeavor.4 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shara_Wynn wrote: »Shara_Wynn wrote: »Shara_Wynn wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »
15 kills in cyrodiil is super easy and fast. Took me 10 minutes today. If you don't want to PvP, do two normal trials. It will take a lot longer than the 15 kills in cyro, but it's still super easy as well. These are not hard tasks to complete. ESO+ does not entitle a player to free rewards without having to play the game.
I wasn't asking for free rewards and nowhere in any of my posts, did I ever state that I wanted free rewards. I just wanted more balance in the tasks needed to earn the rewards. I am happy to play the game, but never has ESO been advertised as a PVP experience so I fail to see how it is being unreasonable or entitled to expect a non-pvp route to obtaining weekly endeavors that doesn't involve grouping with 12 other people to complete four Trials.
Uhhhh… Cyrodiil and the Alliance War was ESO’s original end game, and was advertised as such… ESO has been a PVP experience from the start. Some of the devs who worked on developing ESO/Cyrodiil also worked on DAoC, another triple faction PVP-focused MMO.
Read this article from 2013: https://www.gameskinny.com/culture/elder-scrolls-online-and-the-legacy-of-daoc/
That might have been the case back in 2013, however a quick scroll through https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates shows no mention of PVP outside of one DLC, that being Imperial City.
The vast majority of content in TESO is non PVP so for me, coming into the game, ESO was very much sold as PVE experience and their DLC list further reinforces that point.
Yeah, and I started playing ESO back in Beta, when this WAS advertised as a PVP game, so you were still incorrect in stating that this has “never” been advertised as a PVP game. Never means not ever. The game’s advertising history does not date back to when you personally started playing ESO.
ESO to me has never been advertised as a PVP game. And anyone can go to their website and look through the descriptions for all the DLC's since Imperial City to see that it has not been advertised as a PVP game for a long time. So I don't think what was advertised in Beta is really relevant anymore to most people.
What was that you're trying to say again?
The entitlement in this thread is off the charts. Expecting to get rewards for doing essentially nothing is not a reasonable expectation. Expecting a game with PvP in it to never have rewards encouraging players to participate in PvP is not a reasonable expectation. As others have pointed out, it takes less than 20 minutes to get 15 player kills in Cyrodiil, even for a very inexperienced player. And if you are so biased that you refuse to PvP under any circumstances even though PvP is an integral part of the game, there is the 4 trials option.
Edited by SaffronCitrusflower on February 19, 2024 9:08PM6 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shara_Wynn wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »
15 kills in cyrodiil is super easy and fast. Took me 10 minutes today. If you don't want to PvP, do two normal trials. It will take a lot longer than the 15 kills in cyro, but it's still super easy as well. These are not hard tasks to complete. ESO+ does not entitle a player to free rewards without having to play the game.
I wasn't asking for free rewards and nowhere in any of my posts, did I ever state that I wanted free rewards. I just wanted more balance in the tasks needed to earn the rewards. I am happy to play the game, but never has ESO been advertised as a PVP experience so I fail to see how it is being unreasonable or entitled to expect a non-pvp route to obtaining weekly endeavors that doesn't involve grouping with 12 other people to complete four Trials.
Uhhhh… Cyrodiil and the Alliance War was ESO’s original end game, and was advertised as such… ESO has been a PVP experience from the start. Some of the devs who worked on developing ESO/Cyrodiil also worked on DAoC, another triple faction PVP-focused MMO.
Read this article from 2013: https://www.gameskinny.com/culture/elder-scrolls-online-and-the-legacy-of-daoc/
That's a person's personal opinion not a an advertisement for the game. I saw it advertised as having both PvE and PvP being heavily featured activities. And I joined for that reason. If it had been advertised as primarily a PvP game, I would not have joined. But BOTH were heavily featured
Edit
https://youtu.be/I6m9-Dret0U?si=lNwEUL2gSrvugszK
Edited by spartaxoxo on February 19, 2024 9:28PM2 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Laivine_Aldaron wrote: »This discussion leads nowhere I am afraid.
This week is the perfect opportunity for guilds to take over and organize community events in Cyro, IC and casual trial runs for everyone.
This is the time to get people to love the game modes you love as well and gather fresh players who stick forever, without salt and toxicity. Just for fun!
But I guess this is not the spirit of ESO community. Has this thing ever happened before? because from where I come from, this was a daily practice. It would be nice to have something similar here as well.
If you are new here, first of all: welcome! Hope you enjoy your stay
About what you are asking, don't worry, the forums are not the game. The atmosphere in game is often wildly different than what you see here, especially if you join active guilds. You'll have a fun time, for the most part.Dragonnord wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
Did.... did you read my full reply? I gave you two videos of inexperienced players completing normal AA in 20 minutes. It takes about five minutes to get a normal Craglorn trial filled, and will probably take even less time to fill it this week. It doesn't take "a couple of hours" to do a single normal trial, let alone four.
On the topic of doing Trials this week, since I am totally inexperienced with Trials and I only solo Dungeons I want to ask you if you think I could pug normal Trials "at ease", because I always see people complaining even about simple Dungeons pugs "that take forever". I'm quite scared of pugging Trials, especially since I don't like having to interact with others in chat.
I can carry myself but I would be a high level noob not knowing mechanics etc...
I'm not asking about difficulty, but the social and role aspect, since I only have solo builds and would prefer to avoid dramas.
About difficulty the question is more about: can normal Trials be soloed? The only one I know of is Asylum Sanctorum.
Your answer to this could be useful to others this week, maybe.
- note: don't count group forming time, since on every platform is very different: I am Xbox EU and I'm sure it would take longer than on PC.
People aren't exactly complaining about dungeon PUGS the same though. People are complaining about dungeon PUGS formed via the random dungeon tool which has the potential of varying goals between group members.
Dungeon/Trial PUGs formed in zone have a single goal that can be opted into directly by accepting or declining to join the group. For Trials, it is mostly completion or gear farming. So joining that group, any complaints will come from a player deviating from the pre-agreed upon basis for the group. But the choice exists in the overland PUG formation to self select for groups that cater to the run you want, or to start your own that fits your needs.
[edited to remove quote]
Oooh, I see now... Thanks for the reply!
So is there a standard that is fair to assume a Trial pug would aim for?
If I see someone forming a Trial pug in Group Finder, what should I prepare myself for if it's not clearly stated? Generally speaking... Just to know if hardcore players participate in that and could scold me, or if it is a more casual play style where you can make mistakes, and maybe enjoy the quest...
As you pointed out, pugging random normals can put you in a situation where some want to run and others "walk". How is the vibe between people pugging Trials? More chill and welcoming?
One fear I have is, since I'm CP 2.000+, that I may end up being the highest level and people put hopes I don't deserve on me XD
There aren't really any expectations for normal trial pugs (unless they clearly state them in the group finder, or in the zone advertisements). If you want to, you can tell folks it's your first time doing the trial. I see that quite often, and it's actually very helpful, as those of us with more experience can alert you to anything that's necessary to do to advance in the trial (e.g. stepping on the platforms/pads in AA). If you'd rather not communicate at all, though, that's totally fine. You can always read some guides or watch some videos to know what to expect (watch the normal versions, though, not veteran HM), but that's also not strictly necessary. Stuff just dies so quickly.
I personally find normal trials way less prone to speed runners than random normal dungeons. People do RNDs fast on multiple characters for the transmute stones, and they just want to get through them as quickly as possible. There's really no "incentive" to do normal Craglorn trials, outside of farming gear or just experiencing the trial.
Thank you very much for the explanation!
I guess the Craglorn Trials are in fact THE trial to Trials; confusing but hopefully makes sense, somehow XD
Then it's sad that so many people like me are scared by them. I bet there are Trials enjoyers that would be happy to have more players to "add to their fodders".
No problem! I would suggest starting off with Aetherian Archive, as it's probably the easiest to PUG. I think this video in particular is a very good representation of what the average Craglorn PUG looks like (and what to expect mechanics-wise, re the platforms in AA):
https://youtu.be/iTi2msgvY9o
Person recording the video had only done it 3-4 times before, and there were clearly a lot of people there doing it for the first time. It all went smoothly, there was no toxicity in text chat. If you look in chat, someone even went AFK to answer their doorbell at one point. No one yelled at them or anything like that. No one in chat yelled when someone got disconnected either (and actually encouraged the group to wait).
It really is unfortunate that a very small minority of toxic "leet" end game players have scared folks away from even attempting normal Craglorn trials, because the majority of ESO players don't behave like jerks in game. The thing you always need to remember is that when you see people complaining in forums about toxicity in trials or dungeons (or even PVP, for that matter), they're reporting something that actually happens fairly infrequently. You also need to remember that people generally only come to the forums to complain about stuff that was negative; far fewer come to the forums with posts like "had a great normal PUG trial in Craglorn today, everyone was so nice and chill!" And that goes for everything in life. People are more likely to write a Yelp review if they had a negative experience at a restaurant, etc.
Hope your first trials experience goes well. Enjoy it!
MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
Did.... did you read my full reply? I gave you two videos of inexperienced players completing normal AA in 20 minutes. It takes about five minutes to get a normal Craglorn trial filled, and will probably take even less time to fill it this week. It doesn't take "a couple of hours" to do a single normal trial, let alone four.
Ok, but that player probably knew what AA is. I don't even know that. I get the nXX is normal, but other than that I have no clue. Imposing that level of ignorance on 11 other people would be rude in my opinion. I would prefer not to do that.
The first player was only doing the trial for their 3rd or 4th time, and the second was doing it for their first time... they were both very inexperienced with the trial. It's not "rude" to go into a normal trial with no experience. This is an MMO -- we all had a "first time" for a particular dungeon or trial, and we all understand that. Furthermore, the Craglorn trials are by far the most common "first time" trials for new players or players who have never done trials before -- and people leading/organizing/participating in Craglorn trials all know this. Only a tiny minority of players would give you a hard time and be mean to you for admitting you've never done it before, and your chances of running into those players is so tiny. Those types of players generally aren't running normal Craglorn trials.2 -
Ingenon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shara_Wynn wrote: »1. Kill 15 players in Cyrodiil
2. Defeat 7 Patrolling Horrors in the Imperial City Districts
3. Complete 4 Trials
I get that it is WSM/MYM this week but really? Two out of the three weekly endeavors are PVP based and the third is Trials.
Nothing for the casual gamer this week then.
I get that the third option isn't PVP but Trials are also something which many casual players simply don't engage in. As such many of us will be locked out of earning the 250 endeavors this week.
Disappointed.
I'm having a hard time coming up with worse choices than these for the casual player.
Can anyone think of a recent Weekly Endeavor that would be worse than this week's three, for a casual player who does not PvP or do group PvE such as Trials?
Someone actually came up with some worse options for the casual player earlier in this very thread. They involved: fully decorating a house, with all slots used (which would force players to purchase ESO+); fully completing four zone story lines (very time consuming); and completing 50 daily writ quests (which would necessitate making multiple alts and levelling them to the point of being able to do writs, if you only have one character and only have a few days in the week to play). Fortunately, the actual endeavors this week are all much easier to do, and do not at all necessitate regular participation in trials or PVP!
Have any of these options ever been listed as weekly endeavors? I do not recall "fully decoration a house" as ever being a weekly endeavor. Sure, I can invent a never before seen endeavor that would be harder, but has ZOS ever given us a weekly endeavor that would be harder than one of the three for this week?0 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If the players complaining about these endeavors for the last couple hours in this thread put the same time in game, they'd have one of these weekly endeavors done by now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯10 -
Drammanoth✭✭✭✭✭Drammanoth wrote: »You do guys realise that it takes a group and half an hour to complete this endeavour, don't you?
I've just done it.
which endeavour? there are 3
the 15 kills. I mean please...0 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shara_Wynn wrote: »1. Kill 15 players in Cyrodiil
2. Defeat 7 Patrolling Horrors in the Imperial City Districts
3. Complete 4 Trials
I get that it is WSM/MYM this week but really? Two out of the three weekly endeavors are PVP based and the third is Trials.
Nothing for the casual gamer this week then.
I get that the third option isn't PVP but Trials are also something which many casual players simply don't engage in. As such many of us will be locked out of earning the 250 endeavors this week.
Disappointed.
I'm having a hard time coming up with worse choices than these for the casual player.
Can anyone think of a recent Weekly Endeavor that would be worse than this week's three, for a casual player who does not PvP or do group PvE such as Trials?
Someone actually came up with some worse options for the casual player earlier in this very thread. They involved: fully decorating a house, with all slots used (which would force players to purchase ESO+); fully completing four zone story lines (very time consuming); and completing 50 daily writ quests (which would necessitate making multiple alts and levelling them to the point of being able to do writs, if you only have one character and only have a few days in the week to play). Fortunately, the actual endeavors this week are all much easier to do, and do not at all necessitate regular participation in trials or PVP!
Have any of these options ever been listed as weekly endeavors? I do not recall "fully decoration a house" as ever being a weekly endeavor. Sure, I can invent a never before seen endeavor that would be harder, but has ZOS ever given us a weekly endeavor that would be harder than one of the three for this week?
Collect 100 resources takes longer than killing 15 players in cyrodiil. So ya, most weekly endeavors are harder than this weeks.7 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shara_Wynn wrote: »1. Kill 15 players in Cyrodiil
2. Defeat 7 Patrolling Horrors in the Imperial City Districts
3. Complete 4 Trials
I get that it is WSM/MYM this week but really? Two out of the three weekly endeavors are PVP based and the third is Trials.
Nothing for the casual gamer this week then.
I get that the third option isn't PVP but Trials are also something which many casual players simply don't engage in. As such many of us will be locked out of earning the 250 endeavors this week.
Disappointed.
I'm having a hard time coming up with worse choices than these for the casual player.
Can anyone think of a recent Weekly Endeavor that would be worse than this week's three, for a casual player who does not PvP or do group PvE such as Trials?
Someone actually came up with some worse options for the casual player earlier in this very thread. They involved: fully decorating a house, with all slots used (which would force players to purchase ESO+); fully completing four zone story lines (very time consuming); and completing 50 daily writ quests (which would necessitate making multiple alts and levelling them to the point of being able to do writs, if you only have one character and only have a few days in the week to play). Fortunately, the actual endeavors this week are all much easier to do, and do not at all necessitate regular participation in trials or PVP!
Have any of these options ever been listed as weekly endeavors? I do not recall "fully decoration a house" as ever being a weekly endeavor. Sure, I can invent a never before seen endeavor that would be harder, but has ZOS ever given us a weekly endeavor that would be harder than one of the three for this week?
No, they haven't been. (And for good reason!) You said "I'm having a hard time coming up with worse choices than these for the casual player," so I pointed out some worse choices that someone else came up with (perhaps thinking it would rile up us pesky end game PVPers and put us in our place?). Here's that post:SilverBride wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »Every aspect of ESO is an option for every player. There is nothing stopping anyone from participating in any aspect of the game. ZOS encouraging people to play aspects of the game they don't normally engage in is a good thing, not a violation of what some think their entitled to.
What if the options were these:- Fully decorate a house using all the available slots.
- Complete the storyline quests in 4 zones.
- Complete 50 daily writ quests.
Would end game and PvPers feel like these were fair and balanced choices?
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SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »Collect 100 resources takes longer than killing 15 players in cyrodiil. So ya, most weekly endeavors are harder than this weeks.
Not if you do surveys. Then it's very fast.PCNA2 -
Melivar✭✭✭Also posted in another thread copying here for more visibility.
If you haven't tried the group finder yet this may be a good time to take a chance on some trials. Being perfectly honest the pug groups I join often are faster and have higher DPS that my guild groups.
In these cases, I am often on a sub optimal character while farming materials or skyshards/books. Only once has anyone ever commented about a lack of DPS or picking me up off the floor more times than should happen.
The normal Craglorn trials Atherian Archive (AA), Hel Ra Citadel (HRC) and Cloudrest (don't volunteer for portals) and Sunspire can be done fairly quickly and don't have a ton of punishing mechanics. Sanctum Ophidia (SO) also a Craglorn trial can be a bit more complicated. Any of the rest I would advise staying away from until you get experience in the ones listed.1 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are two PVP options (and has been well-explained, the 15 kills options is easy since it doesn't have to be killing blows) and a PVE option — can be any trial, the same trial 4 times, whatever.
How is that not options? If you say, well I refuse to PVP in any form, even solo, and I won’t do trials because reasons, how is that different than protesting that there aren’t options for pacifists every week? Maybe I don’t want to engage in combat EVER and only collect flowers, craft, and decorate? Would you not think it silly to expect such an option every week?
Weekly endeavors always give you several options each week — sometimes you will be able to complete one without even trying, other times, you might do an activity you wouldn’t otherwise engage with much if at all, and finally, you don’t have to do any of them. If the options were play x games of ToT, complete x black sacraments, or land killing blows on x players, you couldn’t argue there weren’t options, but such a week would be a hard pass from me.3 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »Every aspect of ESO is an option for every player. There is nothing stopping anyone from participating in any aspect of the game. ZOS encouraging people to play aspects of the game they don't normally engage in is a good thing, not a violation of what some think their entitled to.
What if the options were these:- Fully decorate a house using all the available slots.
- Complete the storyline quests in 4 zones.
- Complete 50 daily writ quests.
Would end game and PvPers feel like these were fair and balanced choices?
The second option strikes me as ridiculous, but then I like to take my time doing the storylines. While anyone can do writs, an inn room is free and only 15-30 slots, making that a quick and easy endeavor for anyone.Edited by Araneae6537 on February 19, 2024 10:32PM3
This discussion has been closed.