Gold Road: Path to eliminating loose pain points. Doc do you agree?

TaSheen · January 2024

@chessalavakia_ESO - AWESOME post. Thanks.

wolfie1.0. · January 2024

Pinja wrote: »

Something I feel alot of us dreamed about from the original vision and immersion of the games three alliances was all out war. Cyrodiil provided it and I’ve seen several names stick around as a result. Sadly due to the performance demand of the player engagements on server software and bugs in script, animation, and cross country internet latency its incentives content was deprioritized. To the accomplishment of the devs after 10 years of quality of life and performance patches they have returned if not if not improved the consistency and reliability of its fast paced combat.

Since High Isle the lore has been hinting at a return to revitalize and promote pvp with Gold Road being no exception. Spellcrafting was a fan favorite of the previous Elders Scrolls games returned as scribing. It was a disappointment to fans originally when a Dev showcased their prototype years ago, but the system was cut back from release. Aiming to please at this year's announcements revealed scribing and hinted at a pvp element being added later this year.

Over the years the team has been trying to close off loose ends of irritants, like by releasing the all in one attunable crafting stations to shorten guild house visits. I’ve repeatedly heard over the years and myself have experienced that the games overland zone content is too easy. I have also read, supported, and petitioned for pvp flag systems like dueling, however, ones more expansive, active, and cooperative. One current tone being set in the mmo and ESO space is that the games pvp is fun, but there are no collectible incentives for longevity of vet players especially in housing or motifs. Another grip by some players is that theirs too many useless sets.
Pvp only has 5 motif chapters and a handful daedric designs which dec my house so you can tell I Pvp.

Here’s the suggestion/prediction: Integrate the current proven years old systems into a groupable flagable mode that puts PvE and PvP debuffs on players to simulate a vet mode that:
Allows for alliance war pvp.

Makes them take extra damage.

Stuns players intermittently when they take damage.

Gets worse effects the more experience they obtain until death.

Summons bosses on players.

Makes use of the unused lesser set effects to help provide balance data to help revitalize those sets. (Mathed out by the metrics of the duration of the intensity of the debuffs on player kill. To then be balanced by K’D ratios.)

Doubles the drops of the zone like an event, quadrupling in an overlapping event.

Gives gold bonuses to the alliance with the most player kills, incentivising more casuals to occasionally compete. Resetting with the weekly traders.

Gives trial and arena gear to Pvpers who are on the top of the leaderboard across all of tamriel.

The fact that its a debuff vs a hardmode saves the work of a PvE overhaul adjusting 100s of different enemy variables mathematically, but still emulates a similar result.

It gives access to overland rewards like racial furniture designs at a different experience of play.

Opens players to overworld ganking, and adds surprise encounters.
Lore: After peace talks and years of fighting, Alliance war Nobles have grown tired and discouraged of funding soldiers. Passionate, invested warriors and war bands have now begun looting the countryside to supplement income. Funded by rogue lords.

Even if zos were interested in this set up, it's too complex to release in this development cycle. The soonest such a thing could occur would be 2025 and ZOS next cycle. All of rhe key features for 2024 have been decided, and are being worked on. All we can influence is minor changes to what they have planned. This would not be a minor change.

Ugrak · January 2024

What if they just made something like mythic items?

I wouldn't want it to be incompatible with the mythic item slot though because those are fun too.

Maybe it could behave like a mundus stone you interact with to toggle it on or off. Or vampire utility raisign and lowering stages.

For example suppose you obtain a curse from the Infinite Archive that spawns random hard maligraphies whenever you engage in combat.

Or another that places you under PVP rules outside of group instances (free-for-all or alliance-based?).

Northwold · January 2024

Why so many people seem to imagine that the game was built in part to cater to solo players / players who don't want constant interaction by accident is a mystery. What IS this assumption that all players are missing is being attacked by random strangers while they're going about their day? No, they aren't missing that. They don't want that. If that happened they would drop the game and ESO's player count would disintegrate.

DrNukenstein · January 2024

Flaggable mode, dedicated instances to protect the PVE'ers from witnessing fun.

These flagged instances could have higher yield nodes with chances at gold mats to encourage participation and passive AP generation.

It's not like it's never been done in a videogame before, and when it's done it's broadly appreciated by the community. Even grandpa games can be brought back to life by such a fun system.

Paulytnz · January 2024

My prediction for the incoming PVP that they hinted at:

ESO Fortnite edition - You get the idea, one big map, everyone drops in somewhere or spawns in. Everyone fights it out with the map getting smaller and smaller until there is only ONE winner left.

I can see them doing this for a new PVP mode. Everyone else has jumped on the Fortnite rip off bandwagon so why not ZOS?

Don't get me wrong, I don't play or like Fortnite. But I do see how games that have that sort of playstyle are popular with a lot of people. So, it could look attractive to ZOS.

kargen27 · January 2024

Why give double PvE rewards for opting into a PvP mode? Instead were this ever done (and I think it is a bad idea) the rewards should be unique to the PvP experience. I see no reason to give double drops to players logging in during off hours and going to out of the way places to avoid other players.
The problem with creating more PvP enabled zones is we already have a thin PvP population. The problem with opening up other zones to PvP is those zones were not designed for PvP. Cyrodiil and Imperial City have choke points and clear PvP objectives. The zones are created to help insure player contact. There are no choke points in the other zones. What you would end up with is a few gankers hiding near wayshrines hoping some player wanting the double rewards appears.
Early after introduction there might be enough players willing to risk it to make it worth the gankers time. They would get frustrated though and quit queuing for PvP. That means less targets for the gankers and eventually they get bored and go back to camping outside the dungeon entrance on days when one of the endeavors is to gain telvar.
Eventually you end up with little to no PvP taking place and the few farmers that still chance it running and hiding any time someone gets near.
The single good aspect I see to this would be to allow guilds to host PvP events where they could do a free for all or some five on five (any number) competitions. I think this type of PvP being added to the game would be a positive but there are much better ways to go about doing it.
I know I am jumping around some but the double rewards for flagging for PvP would cause new resentment as players would feel forced into a system they don't want to be a part of.

Pinja · January 2024

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

If we are at it imperial city should be reworked too. At the moment we are swamped with spawn campers which makes it impossible to play. Why don't we have TWO separate spawn points (and no, spawning in another district and running to the appropriate gates is not a solution because we have spawn point camping generally in almost all districts because of course with alliance imbalances we have we have a one alliance dominating everything at one given time slot)

I think this is a mixed issue that has good and bad aspects. The bad caused by the loss in competing pvp guilds since the linear progression of pvp collectibles and cosmetics went down. A lot of Senior pvp leadership retire from the game due to linear progression in power like some PvEers. And in the past, bugs, and performance. However, running a pvp guild is hard when your low on gold, chasing sets in PvE for Pvp. Collectibles take up a good portion of ESO's internal economy. Being able to incorporate casual cosmetic rewards to help support the guild.
I rotate in for the rotating experimentation of new tactics and combinations.

To get around spawn camping the upper city is designed to let you choose a path by returning to the lower sewer when dominated. The long walks of Cyrodiil are to spread out fighting and slow death. The lower sewers have alternate entrances making for long protected walks with alternatate entrances to their center. Each alliance with their own pathing.

I go by darklad101 on streams recently. I passively drop gametips while playing for visuals.

karthrag_inak · January 2024

Pinja wrote: »

but I have unique experiences that make open world pvp challenging and fun.

Khajiit is going to have to see a full CV and verify a few references before he will consider this statement, and any of the others along with it, as anything other than the crustiest of tail crust.

Hapexamendios · January 2024

As some have stated, no to PvP in PVE areas. Don't want it even if it is optional. The dueling is honestly bad enough. Keep it in Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds or even private homes. Anywhere where I don't have to see it and you can have all of it as far as I'm concerned.

SilverBride · January 2024

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Flaggable mode, dedicated instances to protect the PVE'ers from witnessing fun.

One player's fun is another player's agony.

Pinja · January 2024

kargen27 wrote: »

Why give double PvE rewards for opting into a PvP mode? Instead were this ever done (and I think it is a bad idea) the rewards should be unique to the PvP experience. I see no reason to give double drops to players logging in during off hours and going to out of the way places to avoid other players.
The problem with creating more PvP enabled zones is we already have a thin PvP population. The problem with opening up other zones to PvP is those zones were not designed for PvP. Cyrodiil and Imperial City have choke points and clear PvP objectives. The zones are created to help insure player contact. There are no choke points in the other zones. What you would end up with is a few gankers hiding near wayshrines hoping some player wanting the double rewards appears.
Early after introduction there might be enough players willing to risk it to make it worth the gankers time. They would get frustrated though and quit queuing for PvP. That means less targets for the gankers and eventually they get bored and go back to camping outside the dungeon entrance on days when one of the endeavors is to gain telvar.
Eventually you end up with little to no PvP taking place and the few farmers that still chance it running and hiding any time someone gets near.
The single good aspect I see to this would be to allow guilds to host PvP events where they could do a free for all or some five on five (any number) competitions. I think this type of PvP being added to the game would be a positive but there are much better ways to go about doing it.
I know I am jumping around some but the double rewards for flagging for PvP would cause new resentment as players would feel forced into a system they don't want to be a part of.

Base game PVE and most maps in general have impasses to help guide players to linear story progression's. The diversity of the maps adds variety to taste aesthetic and play of strategy. Also points of interest effect gathering and conflict. To limit the amounts of maps effected it could be integrated with Cyrodiil monthly leader boards so that the winning alliance is subject to the most invasion. This would allow Senior guild leadership to try new vista's and help redirect concentration of flaggers. It also would spread out the pvp population across maps based on player age desire. Newer players fight for cyodiil's interest to explore pvp in a new safe proven space. Older pvpers are encouraged to go to high concentration zones for newer looks and time sensitive pvp exclusive vanity rewards if they both pvped and pve'd in addition to better fights. Loosing alliances have the released strain of loosing, putting the sharpest edge of the sword into battle of interests. As a returning PvPer and PvEer wanting to catch up in other zones collections and pvp it gives me the chance to not have as violent a thrashing from those I let eclipse me in preparation by offering a spread of ability. training, repeated practice in pvp + rewards. All the while keeping PvE's feel intact.

Players would become accustomed to double rewards with the toggle would advance quicker for their increased effort. Players wanting not to face other players would just be slower in economy and collections. The difference is the collectors race and field of competition. PvE mat races may be effected number wise.

Blood_again · January 2024

Pinja wrote: »

Groupable flagable mode that puts PvE and PvP debuffs on players to simulate a vet mode that:
Allows for alliance war pvp.

Makes them take extra damage.

Stuns players intermittently when they take damage.

Gets worse effects the more experience they obtain until death.

If you check topics about Vet Overland, you'll see that people don't want it as just moreHP/moreDmg/moreStuns mobs. It is not enough to make it Vet.
Try to run any trial normal and vet, you'll see the real difference.

Pinja wrote: »

Makes use of the unused lesser set effects to help provide balance data to help revitalize those sets. (Mathed out by the metrics of the duration of the intensity of the debuffs on player kill. To then be balanced by K’D ratios.)

What is this about? Absolutely no connection with harder overland or pvp overland.

Pinja wrote: »

Doubles the drops of the zone like an event, quadrupling in an overlapping event.

Unacceptable.
If you enjoy pvp so much - it is a reward itself. Just have a usual drop while pvping and having fun.
If you think you're eligible for higher reward because you play against other players - there's no reason for it. Look at the IC design: you get more if you risk with what you have - that's the reason.
If you wanna just grief the game for young meat who were attracted by higher reward, then return to IC and wait for the next ticket'n'boxes event. June/July I guess.

Pinja wrote: »

Gives gold bonuses to the alliance with the most player kills, incentivising more casuals to occasionally compete. Resetting with the weekly traders.

Gives trial and arena gear to Pvpers who are on the top of the leaderboard across all of tamriel.

For playing overland? Uhu. Also crown rewards, free ESO+ for life and GameMaster permissions. Sure thing.

Really, want arena reward - play arena. Want pvp reward - play pvp.
You even have dungeon jewelry, monster hats'n'shoulders available on Cyro vendor already.This system is broken in favor of pvp players.
Also there is no gankers griefing your run in trials, if you ask. Try it.

Pinja · January 2024

Blood_again wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Gives gold bonuses to the alliance with the most player kills, incentivising more casuals to occasionally compete. Resetting with the weekly traders.

Gives trial and arena gear to Pvpers who are on the top of the leaderboard across all of tamriel.

For playing overland? Uhu. Also crown rewards, free ESO+ for life and GameMaster permissions. Sure thing.

Really, want arena reward - play arena. Want pvp reward - play pvp.
You even have dungeon jewelry, monster hats'n'shoulders available on Cyro vendor already.This system is broken in favor of pvp players.
Also there is no gankers griefing your run in trials, if you ask. Try it.

So the offset is on the diversity of loot tables, gear wise pvp is fine thanks to vendors. There's the chance I have missed the addition of furniture roll able updated plans and designs for pvp in updates. But if it's the same old daedric ashen bench design and a 14-45% share of the loot table for IC, with a 90% drop rate there is an issue with the out numbered market share and depreciation of the items. I understand old tends to spread interest in ventures to other areas of the game. So to that It is nice that the rewards are unique and spread. The speed of discovery vs the need for production in forms and organization.

also chance the low drop rate shorting the ability to find in some forms a drop and confirm its appearance.

Computer science from my current perspective is a mathematical coordination of partially diffused micro mechanics (atomics) and percentages to coordinate parts, and . Generally simplifying to study of parts. At the level I'm at now I'm more so IT dealing with keyboard, mouse, touch screen interfaces. Short hand Java, C, HTML, CSS, and SQL. My codding classes were by a professor paid to work with peers, asking students to build compartmentalized solutions whom they rewarded to get graded with an A so that standard's in language could be built by consistency and improve their own. Yet the translations of some mediums of production span countries. oil, silver, gold, carbon different assements of value in different ohms. Levels of change, variance, exposure. In mediums of ability for different conditions to achieve desired effects. With truth to different conditions.

kargen27 · February 2024

Pinja wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Why give double PvE rewards for opting into a PvP mode? Instead were this ever done (and I think it is a bad idea) the rewards should be unique to the PvP experience. I see no reason to give double drops to players logging in during off hours and going to out of the way places to avoid other players.
The problem with creating more PvP enabled zones is we already have a thin PvP population. The problem with opening up other zones to PvP is those zones were not designed for PvP. Cyrodiil and Imperial City have choke points and clear PvP objectives. The zones are created to help insure player contact. There are no choke points in the other zones. What you would end up with is a few gankers hiding near wayshrines hoping some player wanting the double rewards appears.
Early after introduction there might be enough players willing to risk it to make it worth the gankers time. They would get frustrated though and quit queuing for PvP. That means less targets for the gankers and eventually they get bored and go back to camping outside the dungeon entrance on days when one of the endeavors is to gain telvar.
Eventually you end up with little to no PvP taking place and the few farmers that still chance it running and hiding any time someone gets near.
The single good aspect I see to this would be to allow guilds to host PvP events where they could do a free for all or some five on five (any number) competitions. I think this type of PvP being added to the game would be a positive but there are much better ways to go about doing it.
I know I am jumping around some but the double rewards for flagging for PvP would cause new resentment as players would feel forced into a system they don't want to be a part of.

Base game PVE and most maps in general have impasses to help guide players to linear story progression's. The diversity of the maps adds variety to taste aesthetic and play of strategy. Also points of interest effect gathering and conflict. To limit the amounts of maps effected it could be integrated with Cyrodiil monthly leader boards so that the winning alliance is subject to the most invasion. This would allow Senior guild leadership to try new vista's and help redirect concentration of flaggers. It also would spread out the pvp population across maps based on player age desire. Newer players fight for cyodiil's interest to explore pvp in a new safe proven space. Older pvpers are encouraged to go to high concentration zones for newer looks and time sensitive pvp exclusive vanity rewards if they both pvped and pve'd in addition to better fights. Loosing alliances have the released strain of loosing, putting the sharpest edge of the sword into battle of interests. As a returning PvPer and PvEer wanting to catch up in other zones collections and pvp it gives me the chance to not have as violent a thrashing from those I let eclipse me in preparation by offering a spread of ability. training, repeated practice in pvp + rewards. All the while keeping PvE's feel intact.

Players would become accustomed to double rewards with the toggle would advance quicker for their increased effort. Players wanting not to face other players would just be slower in economy and collections. The difference is the collectors race and field of competition. PvE mat races may be effected number wise.

First there is not enough of a PvP population to survive thinning. Beyond that quest relevant locations are not choke points. The bridges and gates in Cyrodiil are choke points. It sounds like you see beginning PvP in one area and hard core in another. We all know trolls exist. There would be experienced PvP'rs going to where they expect to find beginning PvP'rs just to grief them if they can find any to grief.
The double rewards offered would cause some players to feel pressured into doing something in game they don't enjoy. This is a bad idea for a variety of reasons but if it were put in place there should not be double rewards. Unique rewards wouldn't cause the uproar among the PvE crowd that double rewards would cause.