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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
Can we please get a Auction House?
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Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭SmellyUnlimited wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »I want an auction house system in ESO.
I want a central auction house too. But only if I'm the only player who has access to it.
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
Hard yes. If I do not have to run all over Tamriel to get a single item or pray that "last seen 10 hrs ago" on TTC is still valid, then I'm all in. Trade Guilds is a failure.
The current trading guild/vendor system is what keeps inflation under control....at least as much as can be expected. I like my trade guilds. It would be a huge disappointment to lose them.
How exactly does it keep inflation under control? It seems like the opposite would be true. More players listing goods, the market would more likely lower in price as people would be more inclined towards getting a sale than waiting for someone to buy from them with that much competition. It would eventually reach a medium, as the free market would dictate, and it’s more regulated than the gold baron system of traders we have now who arbitrarily inflate the prices based on how accessible they are as opposed to smaller trading guilds. No more weekly dues, no more money hoarding, individual traders can actually make money without having to subsidize a guild. PvE and PvP guilds will still abound, but the trading guild dynamic has languidly persisted for too long with little to no benefit to the majority of players.
There are two kinds of traders in this game and this is something I don't think we've really talked about. Some traders out there, guilds are what they base their economy around. In other words, the guilds are what their economic processes are founded on. Many of these same players use MM and other tools as well I believe so making any move against the guilds place in this economic system is going to be moving against them as well.
Then there are others who are more freelance and we kind of bounce around, do our thing. But trade guilds are still useful for us as well. Doing anything to remove trade guild participation in this game will help some but it will also hurt others in the way they wish to experience ESO. In fact there's an entire culture built around certain guilds, and this is something I was (kind of) talking about earlier. In other words, the problem is not just about the price of things, it also becomes a problem for those who want to leave trade guilds alone for the sake of how they play the game and organize their economy.
I don't think its fair to take that away from them so some can buy things a little cheaper. Although, I don't see any problem with them introducing like a marketing system (that guilds could choose whether or not to opt-in) and the guilds could have some means to advertise or allow players to conveniently look-up what they have for sale. Compromise on some levels makes good business sense, however this could also become a privacy concern, which not going the auction house route in a way is protecting others right to privacy as well. All I'm saying is there's more to think about regarding the manner in which changes could affect other people, as opposed to what might be gained by some people.Edited by Vulkunne on January 19, 2024 6:25PM“You speak of justice? Of cowardice? I will show you the justice of the grave and the true meaning of fear.”0 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »....... Why is there an addon that PC players use to help turn this unique amazing system ZOS created basically into a central AH?....
No, there isn't.
Add-ons don't work like that. Nor can they as zos control precisely and specifically their capabilities.
FYI for @Kidgangster101 et al TTC comes in two parts. the first part, the add-on, can only gain data via the game API by the player with it installed virtually moving one of their characters with that add-on active to every single vendor location in Tamriel (or as many as they can be bothered with), at which point a snap-shot of that vendor's data can be taken and locally stored on that player's pc via the add-on's capabilities. The second part of the add-on is a windows executable - a separate and distinct application with zilch to do with eso that simply takes that individual data and uploads it to the ttc server where it is aggregated with data provided by other players who have done the same or similar kind of vendor-visiting rounds. That aggregated data is then, presumably, available to the add-on user via the same windows portable executable/add-on interface(I don't use it).
This is NOT an auction house by any definition - all it provides is a snap-shot of 'that vendor' at 'that time' on 'this day' by 'that visiting character' - nothing more. A player/flipper could visit a remote vendor, grab the data via add-on and two-minutes after they're gone someone lists a 'bargain' - which they miss, simply because only the most hard-core traders are doing this circuit of all traders daily or more than once a day.
The reason why most 'bargains' listed via TTC are gone by the time you get there is because the data is already OLD by the time it is uploaded to ttc's servers.
TTC and any other trade add-ons are not in any shape or form anything other than useful tools for pushing/pulling data bits around - they don't magically give all their users a huge advantage or insight that the game otherwise doesn't provide. They are only as good as the data an individual chooses to fill them with by VIRTUALLY VISITING EACH AND EVERY VENDOR.
In short, for these add-ons to work players/traders have to do the exactly the same kind of leg-work any other player would have to do. If on console, you could achieve exactly the same results by visiting each vendor in turn and writing it all down (and I'm pretty sure for those with trade as their end-game they have at least a subsample of this kind of data for high selling items of interest). The only advantage an add-on has is it reduces the human drudge involved in manually going through and collating the data from each vendor - but you still need to visit each vendor to get that data.
Secondly, other trade add-ons are only as good as the data from the guilds you are in - high sale, high volume guilds in 'top' locations will arguably have 'better' data than marginal ones.
From my understanding of pc trading, most players can't be bothered checking anything other than what their fellow guildmates are listing an item at and undercutting them. It means that quite often you could have two top location vendors side by side selling the same items with mini-price wars going on independently within each and a fairly substantial difference between mean and median prices for that item(s) on each guild.
Add-ons, TTC specifically, are NOT an auction house; they're not even close and anyone using, for example TTC website, believeing it to offer the same functionality of an AH would be better spending their time on taking a subsection of trade vendors and visiting them in game if looking for an uncommon item.
Hope that's clearer now.
3 -
Warhawke_80✭✭✭✭✭
✭nobody is left out.Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
*Looks at prices....
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahha!!!!““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné5 -
Lumsdenml✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
I'm talking about rare items that there is a small supply of. Does that happen now? Yes. People want to control the market in something and will monitor and visit multiple vendors in order to buy up all of those things. There is a small percentage of people willing to put in that time and effort to do this. Can you tell me if that would be easier or harder to do if all they had to do was go to one place to buy all of them? And now that the time barrier is removed by an AH, how many more people will do it. I bet it is more, not less.In game ID: @KnightOfTacoma
Main: Black Knight of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50/CP 2160 Nightblade NA PC - Grand Master Crafter, adventurer and part time ganker. Rank 35 - Palatine Grade 1
PVP Main:Knight of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Rank 29 - Brigadier Grade 1 - Ravenwatch veteran. Blood for the Pact!
Guild: The Disenfranchised - ZZ!Other alts:
Blood Scion of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Nightblade NA PC
Duke of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Dragonknight NA PC
Yama Of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Necromancer NA PC
Count Of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Necromancer NA PC
Seigneur of Tacoma - EP Lvl 28 Arcanist NA PC
Grand Vizier of Tacoma - EP Lvl 19 Arcanist NA PC - Icereach
Baron of Tacoma- EP Lvl 50 Warden NA PC -
Ali'i nui of Tacoma- EP Lvl 17 Sorcerer NA PC -
Angus of Tacoma- EP Lvl 47 Sorcerer NA PC - Former EmperorObituary:
RIP Priest of Tacoma - EP Lvl 22 Dragon Knight NA PC Kyne - Lost in the Garden of Shadows.
RIP.Viscount of Tacoma - EP Lvl 18 Dragon Knight NA PC Kyne - Lost in the war.
RIP. Squire of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Died of Knahaten Flu.
RIP Reaper of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Died of Consumption.
RIP Sovereign of Tacoma - EP Lvl 32 NightBlade NA PC Kyne - Lost at The Battle of Brindle, December 13, 2018.
RIP Dauphin of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC Kyne - Overdosed on Skooma.
RIP Wraith of Tacoma - EP Lvl 10 Dragon Knight NA PC - Eaten by a dragon.
RIP Red Knight of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Died at the Battle of Chalmen, March 18th, 2021.
RIP Maharajah of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Lost in a sandstorm.
RIP Vampire Of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Sorcerer NA PC - Fell asleep in the sun. RIP0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
We can say for sure all the trade guilds would become obsolete overnight. That unto itself would be very damaging to the game and every member of a trade guild that is an integral part of the social aspect of the game.
@reazea
How so? They could implement "guild advisors" in each zone that allows you to search the world to see what item is posted where. Then it could give you an option to run there and retrieve it yourself or maybe it could allow you to pay a fee (based on distance) to retrieve the item for you. Bam just like that guilds stay alive, you have a gold sync system built into it, and life can go on? Maybe it also gets rid of the need "sell X amount of items to stay in a guild" because more people would be interested in selling now and joining trader guilds.1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game. They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
Finding things is the easy part. Got to place said item drops, do the thing you need to do to get said thing to drop. Pray rng gives you luck. Rinse and repeat. Everything tradable is essential free with effort.
There are instances where motif prices have increased mostly because players in general stopped doing the content needed to farm them, because the precieved value was too low.
No matter what economic structure you have you will never reach what the true value of something is because value is a subjective and volatile term which humans will adjust to according to their own terms. Even in situations where prices are fixed value is not, because humans are not bots.
2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SmellyUnlimited wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »I want an auction house system in ESO.
I want a central auction house too. But only if I'm the only player who has access to it.It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
Hard yes. If I do not have to run all over Tamriel to get a single item or pray that "last seen 10 hrs ago" on TTC is still valid, then I'm all in. Trade Guilds is a failure.
The current trading guild/vendor system is what keeps inflation under control....at least as much as can be expected. I like my trade guilds. It would be a huge disappointment to lose them.
How exactly does it keep inflation under control? It seems like the opposite would be true. More players listing goods, the market would more likely lower in price as people would be more inclined towards getting a sale than waiting for someone to buy from them with that much competition. It would eventually reach a medium, as the free market would dictate, and it’s more regulated than the gold baron system of traders we have now who arbitrarily inflate the prices based on how accessible they are as opposed to smaller trading guilds. No more weekly dues, no more money hoarding, individual traders can actually make money without having to subsidize a guild. PvE and PvP guilds will still abound, but the trading guild dynamic has languidly persisted for too long with little to no benefit to the majority of players.
It doesn't control inflation it limits it. A central auction house would also not curb inflation. It would also limit it just in a slightly different way.
Preventing inflation is not a great argument for not changing systems. It's a great argument for ZOS to increase the number of gold sinks in the game.Edited by wolfie1.0. on January 20, 2024 12:06AM1 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jaekobcaed wrote: »My two cents... let's not.
I've played quite a few MMOs over the years and one sad reality of this genre is that it has dramatically hemorrhaged the social aspects (they also tend to lose the script on the roleplaying elements as well, but that's not a problem with ESO). Back when the MMO genre was a novel concept, people fell in love with them not because of raids or grind or being the best. No, they fell in love with the fact that these games are supposed to be living worlds wherein many players play together; while there's definitely a need for solo gameplay in every MMO, the game should also actively encourage players to interact in at least a few different ways.
ESO does this marvelously.
How can you say this when you can be in a trading guild with no interaction as long as you make your sales or donation requirements?
How does the current system force the interaction you note?
PC
PS4/PS52 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
Finding things is the easy part. Got to place said item drops, do the thing you need to do to get said thing to drop. Pray rng gives you luck. Rinse and repeat. Everything tradable is essential free with effort.
There are instances where motif prices have increased mostly because players in general stopped doing the content needed to farm them, because the precieved value was too low.
No matter what economic structure you have you will never reach what the true value of something is because value is a subjective and volatile term which humans will adjust to according to their own terms. Even in situations where prices are fixed value is not, because humans are not bots.
Where do blue or green Aggressive Pants drop?
No, it is not easy to find some things, and that is an example I faced recently on the PS5. I can't go to "where it drops" and farm it. Nor do I want to farm Vet dungeons I suck at to maybe get something. I want to find where it is sold and decide if the price is reasonable enough for me. I also want to know how much I should charge for something I do get, basically impossible for many of us today.PC
PS4/PS52 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Y'all need to stop for a bit and understand that the guild trader system is NOT going away. Why? Because ESO would lose so many players it might never recover. ZOS set out to enable guilds/traders as a non-optional system for "trade" - and now it's been in place for dog's years, it's not going away.
And begging for a global option may not go away either. But just think about how many people are vested in the trade guilds. And what would happen if the rugs got jerked out from under them by changing the status quo from "guild traders" to "open global market" after 10 years.
It's not going to happen. I personally would prefer the open global market - but I do not believe that will ever happen in this game.
And no, I do not use the guild trader system other than if I need a few mats to complete daily writs (like clothing - which I NEVER seem to have a survey for.... *SIGH*)Edited by TaSheen on January 20, 2024 3:24AM______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....2 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Y'all need to stop for a bit and understand that the guild trader system is NOT going away. Why? Because ESO would lose so many players it might never recover. ZOS set out to enable guilds/traders as a non-optional system for "trade" - and now it's been in place for dog's years, it's not going away.
And begging for a global option may not go away either. But just think about how many people are vested in the trade guilds. And what would happen if the rugs got jerked out from under them by changing the status quo from "guild traders" to "open global market" after 10 years.
It's not going to happen. I personally would prefer the open global market - but I do not believe that will ever happen in this game.
And no, I do not use the guild trader system other than if I need a few mats to complete daily writs (like clothing - which I NEVER seem to have a survey for.... *SIGH*)
I would agree that a full centralized auction house is very unlikely, but having some aspects of TTC in the game is not impossible. It is already available on the PC, so the argument against it is much lower.PC
PS4/PS52 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
And they are not all of a sudden going to go up in price anymore than they already do. In fact, "rare" items are already so price prohibitive that it will not affect the common player, or rather 99% of the player base (yes % is made up, but most likely not far from the truth). So even if they did go up, the net effect is nil.Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game.
They already can not afford the rarist items.They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.
Bottom line is that I feel there should be a place for players, all players "play it your way, as ZOS says" to be able to engage in trading, but not being forced into a trade guild.
A hybrid system is the beste solution. Allow guild traders to maintain their stalls and the sale of medium to expensive items and allow the common/new/guildless player to have access of means to trade outside of spamming zone chat.
"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes2 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
I'm talking about rare items that there is a small supply of. Does that happen now? Yes. People want to control the market in something and will monitor and visit multiple vendors in order to buy up all of those things. There is a small percentage of people willing to put in that time and effort to do this. Can you tell me if that would be easier or harder to do if all they had to do was go to one place to buy all of them? And now that the time barrier is removed by an AH, how many more people will do it. I bet it is more, not less.
i understand this, but the net effect is not going to change anything about the game for the playerbase as a whole. The rarest items in game are already out of the reach of anyone not playing the game to make money, or buying gold which is agaist the EULA.
However, not having a cental location to sell of lower priced items (I would set a limit on buy it now items and only allow "expensive" items to be bid on) hurts many players, even those WITH guild traders.
There needs to be a way to offload 50 gold items, 100 gold items, low tier patterns we all get spammed with, etc etc. Its a massive disservice to sell these items at guild traders due to the cost of a stall. A central auction house would allow for this.
"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
I'm talking about rare items that there is a small supply of. Does that happen now? Yes. People want to control the market in something and will monitor and visit multiple vendors in order to buy up all of those things. There is a small percentage of people willing to put in that time and effort to do this. Can you tell me if that would be easier or harder to do if all they had to do was go to one place to buy all of them? And now that the time barrier is removed by an AH, how many more people will do it. I bet it is more, not less.
i understand this, but the net effect is not going to change anything about the game for the playerbase as a whole. The rarest items in game are already out of the reach of anyone not playing the game to make money, or buying gold which is agaist the EULA.
However, not having a cental location to sell of lower priced items (I would set a limit on buy it now items and only allow "expensive" items to be bid on) hurts many players, even those WITH guild traders.
There needs to be a way to offload 50 gold items, 100 gold items, low tier patterns we all get spammed with, etc etc. Its a massive disservice to sell these items at guild traders due to the cost of a stall. A central auction house would allow for this.
The inevitable end would be these common items drop to vendor prices. So the solution for the low cost common items would be NPC vendors.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
I'm talking about rare items that there is a small supply of. Does that happen now? Yes. People want to control the market in something and will monitor and visit multiple vendors in order to buy up all of those things. There is a small percentage of people willing to put in that time and effort to do this. Can you tell me if that would be easier or harder to do if all they had to do was go to one place to buy all of them? And now that the time barrier is removed by an AH, how many more people will do it. I bet it is more, not less.
i understand this, but the net effect is not going to change anything about the game for the playerbase as a whole. The rarest items in game are already out of the reach of anyone not playing the game to make money, or buying gold which is agaist the EULA.
However, not having a cental location to sell of lower priced items (I would set a limit on buy it now items and only allow "expensive" items to be bid on) hurts many players, even those WITH guild traders.
There needs to be a way to offload 50 gold items, 100 gold items, low tier patterns we all get spammed with, etc etc. Its a massive disservice to sell these items at guild traders due to the cost of a stall. A central auction house would allow for this.
The inevitable end would be these common items drop to vendor prices. So the solution for the low cost common items would be NPC vendors.
Which does nothing for the new player looking to procure some of these items."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game. They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.
Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.4 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Y'all need to stop for a bit and understand that the guild trader system is NOT going away. Why? Because ESO would lose so many players it might never recover. ZOS set out to enable guilds/traders as a non-optional system for "trade" - and now it's been in place for dog's years, it's not going away.
And begging for a global option may not go away either. But just think about how many people are vested in the trade guilds. And what would happen if the rugs got jerked out from under them by changing the status quo from "guild traders" to "open global market" after 10 years.
It's not going to happen. I personally would prefer the open global market - but I do not believe that will ever happen in this game.
And no, I do not use the guild trader system other than if I need a few mats to complete daily writs (like clothing - which I NEVER seem to have a survey for.... *SIGH*)
How many people are "vested in the trade guilds"? Not as many as some posters here imply, I'd guess. Although a sizable proportion of those active on this forum presumably are, which, clearly, is not the same thing.
Meanwhile, as I and others have noted before, should we not also think about how offputting this system, as currently set up, is for new and casual players?
An awful lot of posts on this thread seem to treat the ESO playerbase as something static, and I wonder if ZOS sometimes fall into that trap, too. A fixed number of people that can only ever decline. If that really is the case, ESO is in serious trouble, because the lifeblood of any MMO is ensuring a continuous stream of *new* and *casual* players, not catering exclusively to the old guard. If you do that, the MMO dies.
There are multiple important systems in the game, trading included, that are more likely to make new/casual players think "why am I bothering with this when I can play something else" than to encourage them to stick with the game.
There are plenty of systems that MMOs can make difficult to access to some types of players without damaging the overall game experience. Trials, for instance, for people who don't like groups, card games, for people who don't like card games. Players can just not play them and they won't miss out on much except, say, a few pieces of gear and perhaps some furnishings / cosmetics.
But trading is a different type of system -- a basic function of MMO gameplay that affects / can interact with the entire player experience in all their activities rather than being a unique gameplay experience that has no impact beyond the experience of doing the activity itself.
I actually agree, as I've said before, that the developers seem so wedded to their trading system that they are unlikely to change it wholesale. But that being the case I still think they really, really ought to think about the two problems that crop up time and again and resolve them once and for all.
Namely the lack of any global or regional search and the selling gate of player administered guilds.
There are possible compromises that can at least improve the situation we have now without fundamentally blowing up traders.Edited by Northwold on January 20, 2024 1:06PM0 -
valenwood_vegan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.
That may be true for some, but it's quite the generalization.
This particular former casual solo quester took a chance and joined a trading guild three years ago and became an engaged, subbed endgamer.
I for one am glad that the design of the guild trader system got me to step out of my comfort zone a little bit and engage more with the larger game. To be totally honest, I probably wouldn't still be here today otherwise.
0 -
CrazyKitty✭✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game. They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.
Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.
ESO is an MMO. It's designed to get people to join guilds and interact with other players. This is a good thing.
A centralized auction house would be a redesign of one of the core game aspects and destroy one of the things that makes the game unique.2 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do not like that this topic comes up again and again. Its just too toxic.
The matter has been settled years ago.
ESO went a different way than other MMOs. An auction house was deemed harmful in the longrun. Because it is.
So they came up with an idea to alleviate most of the central auction house's downsides.
Is it perfect? No. There are problems. But it's the best that any MMO has to offer. Because its stable.
New players hate the guild system, because they don't know it and do not understand how integral it is to keeping the game economy stable.
They hate the effort to find stuff they want. They do have reservations against being a member of a guild, just for being able to offer their stuff.
And if they find something they want, they don't have the money for the purchase.
The frustration is understandable, [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2024 6:08PMNo Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!2 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭valenwood_vegan wrote: »Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.
That may be true for some, but it's quite the generalization.
This particular former casual solo quester took a chance and joined a trading guild three years ago and became an engaged, subbed endgamer.
I for one am glad that the design of the guild trader system got me to step out of my comfort zone a little bit and engage more with the larger game. To be totally honest, I probably wouldn't still be here today otherwise.
When discussing mechanics that are part of an entire game, yes, generalizations are actually necessary.
Your example is great and I’m sure there are plenty of players like you. I’ll counter with my own example. I have a busy real life and don’t spend as much time playing as I used to. I’m not going to spend the time and effort to 1) find a trade guild. 2) worry about being kicked for inactivity 3) pay dues or whatever they’re called. I also play multiple MMOs, and since this is not my first MmO, I know for sure that I prefer a far more accessible and casual friendly system where I can trade my valuable goods.4 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game. They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.
Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.
ESO is an MMO. It's designed to get people to join guilds and interact with other players. This is a good thing.
A centralized auction house would be a redesign of one of the core game aspects and destroy one of the things that makes the game unique.
I agree that the system is unique and even cool, but I disagree that it’s a good thing if it means that a core function to an MMO like a centralized auction house isn’t present. Is having a unique system worth the trade off of losing players who are frustrated with it? I know a lot of players like the trader guild system, but I would be willing to bet if you took a poll of past and present ESO players, far more would either prefer an easier to use system, or wouldn’t care if an easier to use system was implemented.
3 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »
How can you say this when you can be in a trading guild with no interaction as long as you make your sales or donation requirements?
What??!! That is a bad trading guild, if that is your experience. Actually that is just a bad guild in general. .0 -
CrazyKitty✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game. They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.
Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.
ESO is an MMO. It's designed to get people to join guilds and interact with other players. This is a good thing.
A centralized auction house would be a redesign of one of the core game aspects and destroy one of the things that makes the game unique.
I agree that the system is unique and even cool, but I disagree that it’s a good thing if it means that a core function to an MMO like a centralized auction house isn’t present. Is having a unique system worth the trade off of losing players who are frustrated with it? I know a lot of players like the trader guild system, but I would be willing to bet if you took a poll of past and present ESO players, far more would either prefer an easier to use system, or wouldn’t care if an easier to use system was implemented.
Yes, having a unique trading system is FAR better than a centralized auction house. It's highly unlikely anyone has every quit playing ESO because there is no centralized auction house. Everyone I know enjoys their trade guilds and the social aspects that come with it. It's a great way to make friends in game.
These threads are so tiring and repetitive. ZOS is not going to change the design of their game because a small minority of players who refuse to play the game how it was designed to be played. Just join a trade guild. It's fun and you'll make some new friends.2 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »
Yes, having a unique trading system is FAR better than a centralized auction house. It's highly unlikely anyone has every quit playing ESO because there is no centralized auction house. Everyone I know enjoys their trade guilds and the social aspects that come with it. It's a great way to make friends in game.
These threads are so tiring and repetitive. ZOS is not going to change the design of their game because a small minority of players who refuse to play the game how it was designed to be played. Just join a trade guild. It's fun and you'll make some new friends.
1. I have quit over the trading system for one year plus at a time. Sorry.
2. Threads on Cyrodiil improvements are also "tiring and repetitive" if that's not your thing. If it isn't, just don't read them.
3. ESO *is marketed to casual players*. Not everyone *wants* to make friends in an MMO and not everyone has the same idea of "fun". Maybe they lead busy lives, maybe they just don't want to dedicate that much time to a game. And to them, an important system that requires extremely regular interaction to have access to is a non-starter. Am I going to change my lifestyle for the sake of a computer game -- a toy? No. That is not my priority in life and I hope it never is.
Now, you can tell them to go play something else. And they do. But is that really wise from a developer perspective when the game courts casual players? I certainly don't think so.
Now, for me, I favour a halfway house: regional searches and crippled server-administered traders that offer selling on terms that make them much less attractive than guild traders proper. That way the character of the trader system is preserved.
But the point remains. It is perfectly reasonable for discussion of this topic to happen, just as it is perfectly reasonable for every other topic that comes up a lot to be discussed. Almost by definition, if these topics keep coming up time and again it's because people are interested in them.Edited by Northwold on January 20, 2024 4:34PM3 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.
This is often asserted, without any proof.
No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.
We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!
It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.
But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.
People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.
Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.
Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game. They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.
Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.
ESO is an MMO. It's designed to get people to join guilds and interact with other players. This is a good thing.
A centralized auction house would be a redesign of one of the core game aspects and destroy one of the things that makes the game unique.
I agree that the system is unique and even cool, but I disagree that it’s a good thing if it means that a core function to an MMO like a centralized auction house isn’t present. Is having a unique system worth the trade off of losing players who are frustrated with it? I know a lot of players like the trader guild system, but I would be willing to bet if you took a poll of past and present ESO players, far more would either prefer an easier to use system, or wouldn’t care if an easier to use system was implemented.
Yes, having a unique trading system is FAR better than a centralized auction house. It's highly unlikely anyone has every quit playing ESO because there is no centralized auction house. Everyone I know enjoys their trade guilds and the social aspects that come with it. It's a great way to make friends in game.
These threads are so tiring and repetitive. ZOS is not going to change the design of their game because a small minority of players who refuse to play the game how it was designed to be played. Just join a trade guild. It's fun and you'll make some new friends.
Thank you for recommending how I play a game, but no thanks. I know what I enjoy, and jumping through hoops to do something as basic as sell items isn’t it. I’m sorry I don’t know that you knew the entire past and present player base, I stand corrected 😂5 -
Idelise✭✭✭✭Ngl, this game would be so much more enjoyable with a general trading system instead of the trade guilds oligarchs. Not only is it annoying (having to go across the map to check all the traders, even with TTC as by the time you get there the items are usually swiped), the anxiety of if I ever leave the game for a month or so and get kicked from the guild that offers such a basic feature as an auctioneer... idk. Other games have auction houses, their economy works just fine and has a far easier time regulating itself anyway. I think it could work. The issue rn is that with some of the oligarchs out here holding the majority of wealth (aka, people who do have hundreds of millions saved) would probably keep buying off certain crucial resources in a general auction house and get even fatter flipping the market this way.
And we'd go to a point 0...
Will the auction house solve our issues now? Probably not. It could make matters worse. But I'd be still willing to give it a try as it would be a great QoL improvement over what we have now. It would be even better resolved if trade guilds were never a thing and we had AH from the start but here we are
4 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Logistically, an “auction” house can’t happen Let’s just break this down.
<snipped>
I keep saying this, there are tons of guilds with vendors out there whose only requirement is that you be an active member. That’s it. No need to interact. No need to participate in anything. No dues.
Join one of those.
There is no need to change anything, because the change is not logistically possible.
Quite the over-reaction but there were parts of it that had some accuracy. Logistically possible? Of course it is. The Mechanics of the game are not dependent on the Players. If the Company Wants to completely overhaul they system ... ANY system ... they are free to do so. The things they change are always determined by the potential positive and negative responses of the players, but they CAN do anything they please.
With the number of Players of other games that Use an AH, the number of players in ESO that would quit, should they change to an AH, would in actuality be much lower than the Nay Sayers you read on this Forum.
And your 'Tons of Guilds' with your specific requisites are Only useful if one HAPPENS to be advertising in Chat while one is playing. Applying to a Guild from the LOOOng and rather unsorted mess of the List of Guilds gets no response. The concept is nice, find Guilds that fit the player's needs, then apply and bingo, 5 Guilds to access. The Reality is - If no Guilds are advertising at the time the player is online, they won't find a Guild.
And even then, Guilds sneak in extra prerequisites they don't advertise like minimum CP levels, so new players have less of a choice.
So if ZOS wants to change it, they can and will. If they don't want to, they won't.
It's as simple as that.
Edited by barney2525 on January 21, 2024 1:33AM1
