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Can we please get a Auction House?

  • reazea
    reazea
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    Why do you guys want to change the fundamental design of ESO? There are lots of other games out there that have an auction house and no incentive to join guilds.
  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    Stx wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    Lumsdenml wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.

    This is often asserted, without any proof.

    No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.

    We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!

    It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.

    But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.

    People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.

    Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.

    Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game. They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.

    Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.

    Casual players can sell items to guild mates in a social guild even it they do not have a trader. Casual players can sell items in zone chat. If a casual player doesn't want to join a guild that gets a trader that is their choice. There are guilds with no dues that have a trader almost every week. One I was in for quite a while had only one requirement. You had to log into the game at least once a month.
    The current system has many different levels and the more you participate the more you get out of it. Kind of like trials. If you want to run vet hard mode trials you join a guild and get on a progression team. If you just want to run normal you can find groups in zone.
    Putting in an auction house now would double thump casual players. There is enough gold in the game that a few players could easily drive up prices on rare items and the abundance of common items would make it harder to earn gold just starting out or through casual play.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • wolfie1.0.
    wolfie1.0.
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    Lumsdenml wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.

    This is often asserted, without any proof.

    No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.

    We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!

    It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.

    But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.

    People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.

    Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.

    You are forgetting a few things of import. First is the near infinite capacity of craft bags.

    Second, nearly every hardcore trader in the game has a war chest of gold stored away in the game.

    Third this won't happen suddenly, there will be time to prepare.

    Now maybe someone can't create a monopoly on all of the Columbine in the game. But they can sure try with an central auction house.
    At the very least market manipulation will occur. At worst a trade guild will corner the market on items and set prices primarily because they could in reality out buy almost everyone else.

    Like I said before, no matter what system you use hardcore traders will still make gold.
    wolfie1.0. wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.

    This is often asserted, without any proof.

    No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.

    We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!

    Finding things is the easy part. Got to place said item drops, do the thing you need to do to get said thing to drop. Pray rng gives you luck. Rinse and repeat. Everything tradable is essential free with effort.

    There are instances where motif prices have increased mostly because players in general stopped doing the content needed to farm them, because the precieved value was too low.

    No matter what economic structure you have you will never reach what the true value of something is because value is a subjective and volatile term which humans will adjust to according to their own terms. Even in situations where prices are fixed value is not, because humans are not bots.

    Where do blue or green Aggressive Pants drop?

    No, it is not easy to find some things, and that is an example I faced recently on the PS5. I can't go to "where it drops" and farm it. Nor do I want to farm Vet dungeons I suck at to maybe get something. I want to find where it is sold and decide if the price is reasonable enough for me. I also want to know how much I should charge for something I do get, basically impossible for many of us today.

    They drop the same way all campion gear drops. Have a companion out and kill stuff until rng blesses you. I never said it was easy. It's whether your lucky.

    As for how much to charge. Even with TTC it often comes to guess work.

    On many occasions I have come across items that are rare enough that ttc doesn't have a record of it, and sales data doesn't exactly exist reliably.

    In those instances the market was mine to play with, but how do you set a price to sell? Most of the time it's toss something out and see what bites.

    In other instances where there are 2 or 3 items out there you still have to go hunt to see if things have sold.

    And when finding things ttc will tell you it's there when it's gone.

    It's not a perfect system, but since it exists outside of eso, it and esohub can function better than any similar system would exist in game.

    I don't hate the idea, I just don't think zos can or would implement it in such a way that it would be as effective.
  • Kidgangster101
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    reazea wrote: »
    Why do you guys want to change the fundamental design of ESO? There are lots of other games out there that have an auction house and no incentive to join guilds.

    Why did PVE players want to change the fundamental design of the game because the games 1st end game was PVP. So by your logic here all PVE content should be turned into pvp zones...... Just saying it works both ways lol
  • Kidgangster101
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    Stx wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    Lumsdenml wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.

    This is often asserted, without any proof.

    No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.

    We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!

    It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.

    But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.

    People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.

    Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.

    Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game. They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.

    Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.

    Casual players can sell items to guild mates in a social guild even it they do not have a trader. Casual players can sell items in zone chat. If a casual player doesn't want to join a guild that gets a trader that is their choice. There are guilds with no dues that have a trader almost every week. One I was in for quite a while had only one requirement. You had to log into the game at least once a month.
    The current system has many different levels and the more you participate the more you get out of it. Kind of like trials. If you want to run vet hard mode trials you join a guild and get on a progression team. If you just want to run normal you can find groups in zone.
    Putting in an auction house now would double thump casual players. There is enough gold in the game that a few players could easily drive up prices on rare items and the abundance of common items would make it harder to earn gold just starting out or through casual play.

    So casual players need to go out of their way to participate in a thing that is a basic function to games? People say just join a trader guilds and make friends ECT..... But you know that's called a social guild so why not just make social guilds more important you shouldn't be forced to pay dues to make gold. Again I'm saying this as a person that has so much gold. I quit the game due to how the reading system is, how they ruined pvp, how the game is so laggy.

    I can come back right now and just flip a bunch of stuff to double my money, I could do the same in central AH except I take more risk because EVERYONE in the game has access to it and can keep undercutting me. Or keep me having to buy stock out over and over and over again. Anyone that wants to make gold will always find a way to no matter the system.

    Yes it is harder to do in the current system, but guess what? ALL the time I spend traveling and flipping items in the current system is me ignoring content. All those shouts I see for a tank for content is ignored just becaus I need to do my rounds. Just saying again no system is perfect but this one has failed terribly (and it really only benefits the rich because they can just get richer and richer..... Isn't that the #1 complaint for not having a central AH?) Just saying.......
  • Pixiepumpkin
    Pixiepumpkin
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    wolfie1.0. wrote: »
    Lumsdenml wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.

    This is often asserted, without any proof.

    No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.

    We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!

    It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.

    But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.

    People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.

    Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.

    You are forgetting a few things of import. First is the near infinite capacity of craft bags.

    Second, nearly every hardcore trader in the game has a war chest of gold stored away in the game.

    Third this won't happen suddenly, there will be time to prepare.

    Now maybe someone can't create a monopoly on all of the Columbine in the game. But they can sure try with an central auction house.
    At the very least market manipulation will occur. At worst a trade guild will corner the market on items and set prices primarily because they could in reality out buy almost everyone else.

    Like I said before, no matter what system you use hardcore traders will still make gold.

    Respectfully, I have forgotten nothing. I have considered the entirety of what there is to consider based on available data before I come to the conclusion that a central auction house with restriction will benefit both guild traders and solo/non guild participating players.

    The infinite craft bag (except that it's not infinite for those who do not have ESO+,) will makes a central AH even better. In fact, the limitations of not having ESO+ would allow for those players to unload crafting materials just to get them out of their bags vs deleting or taking up most of the precious 30 slots a player gets in a trade guild.

    As far as preparing, that will have no affect in the long run. Sure, in the short term guild traders might try to capitalize on the addition of a central AH but with most players funneling their columbine, mundane runes, etc etc into the central AH, they will overcome what the flippers will be able to do. This of course being based on the idea that the player base is as healthy as ZOS claims.

    A hybrid system with guild traders and a central AH that has a limited buy it now price/cap (only actual bidding would allow for more than whatever threshold is set), is the best solution to maintain guild traders and to give solo players and non guild participating players a way to engage with the community regarding trading.
    "𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖓 𝕲𝖔𝖉𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖑𝖎𝖐𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖆𝖇𝖘𝖔𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖊, 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖐𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝖘𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖑𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖗 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖘." ― Sotha Sil
    PC/NA
  • FlopsyPrince
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    Stx wrote: »
    Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.

    That may be true for some, but it's quite the generalization.

    This particular former casual solo quester took a chance and joined a trading guild three years ago and became an engaged, subbed endgamer.

    I for one am glad that the design of the guild trader system got me to step out of my comfort zone a little bit and engage more with the larger game. To be totally honest, I probably wouldn't still be here today otherwise.

    You are probably the exception rather than the rule. I am in several trading guilds (and have been in more in the past) on PC NA/EU and PS5 NA/EU. I have a long history with several but I am still not close to any of the people in them largely because I am a loner at heart and really being active in a group is a push for me personally. I expect I am not as rare as many may think.

    I do donate to the groups and try to sell (though doing so on console is much more of a pain, both for figuring out selling price and communicating without keyboard) but I am not as engaged as some.

    I may try voice chat again on the PS5. I hate many parts of the interface there, lacking the addon features, but I do enjoy sitting in a comfy chair playing on my 70 inch TV, so I find I am playing on both for now. I was going to try and take it easier, but making all daily endeavors and hopefully a full set of event quests (1 in Imperial City, 2 in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane and Gold Cost) sucks up time.
    PC
    PS4/PS5
  • FlopsyPrince
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    barney2525 wrote: »
    So if ZOS wants to change it, they can and will. If they don't want to, they won't.

    It's as simple as that.

    That is the core issue for many things that regularly come up on the forums.

    I found it humorous when Chrome on my tablet showed me a story where the/a lead dev for ESO said they have changed a lot based on player feedback.

    I have not seen that and it is a common complaint that comes up here. I came back to ESO after a long break not because it is so responsive (something that really annoys me) but because it is comfortable and no better alternative is out there, though I did consider WoW for a while.

    I really wish the company would consider many quality of life things noted here for years, but I won't hold my breath, though perhaps a few more will get put in this year as noted in the global release per a video on it I watched. They may not make all of them, but they should at least actively consider many things.
    PC
    PS4/PS5
  • Northwold
    Northwold
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    reazea wrote: »
    Why do you guys want to change the fundamental design of ESO? There are lots of other games out there that have an auction house and no incentive to join guilds.

    Let's be honest, here. If the only reason people join guilds is because the game forces people to join guilds so that they can sell stuff (though I hope that's not the case), then a more comprehensive rethink of how to make guilds attractive is in order. That would amount to a complete failure of game design.
  • SaffronCitrusflower
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    Northwold wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Why do you guys want to change the fundamental design of ESO? There are lots of other games out there that have an auction house and no incentive to join guilds.

    Let's be honest, here. If the only reason people join guilds is because the game forces people to join guilds so that they can sell stuff (though I hope that's not the case), then a more comprehensive rethink of how to make guilds attractive is in order. That would amount to a complete failure of game design.

    Being honest is admitting that people join guilds for many reasons, not just for trade. MMO's are for making friends, grouping up, and helping each other achieve in game goals. MMO's are not for casual solo questers who never want to interact with other players.

    A global auction house is a horrible idea for ESO. It will radically upset the guild structure, the economy, and be changing the fundamental design of the game that makes ESO unique.



    Edited by SaffronCitrusflower on January 21, 2024 3:04PM
  • Northwold
    Northwold
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    Northwold wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Why do you guys want to change the fundamental design of ESO? There are lots of other games out there that have an auction house and no incentive to join guilds.

    Let's be honest, here. If the only reason people join guilds is because the game forces people to join guilds so that they can sell stuff (though I hope that's not the case), then a more comprehensive rethink of how to make guilds attractive is in order. That would amount to a complete failure of game design.

    Being honest is admitting that people join guilds for many reasons, not just for trade. MMO's are for making friends, grouping up, and helping each other achieve in game goals. MMO's are not for solo questers who never want to interact with other players.

    MMOs are for whatever and whomever the MMO wants to be for. If there were a prescription for what *every* MMO "must" do, well, this thread would not be here and ESO would have a player base half the size happily using an auction house.

    Separately, I did not say people join guilds only for trade. I said I hoped that was not the case. The premise of the message I replied to was that people join guilds for trade.
    Edited by Northwold on January 21, 2024 3:08PM
  • SaffronCitrusflower
    SaffronCitrusflower
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    Northwold wrote: »
    Northwold wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Why do you guys want to change the fundamental design of ESO? There are lots of other games out there that have an auction house and no incentive to join guilds.

    Let's be honest, here. If the only reason people join guilds is because the game forces people to join guilds so that they can sell stuff (though I hope that's not the case), then a more comprehensive rethink of how to make guilds attractive is in order. That would amount to a complete failure of game design.

    Being honest is admitting that people join guilds for many reasons, not just for trade. MMO's are for making friends, grouping up, and helping each other achieve in game goals. MMO's are not for solo questers who never want to interact with other players.

    MMOs are for whatever and whomever the MMO wants to be for. If there were a prescription for what *every* MMO "must" do, well, this thread would not be here.

    Separately, I did not say people join guilds only for trade. I said I hoped that was not the case. That was the premise of the message I replied to.

    Please just stop trying to make the game what you want it to be rather than what it was designed to be. The vast majority of players like, or at least prefer, the trading system as it is now better than a central auction house, and there is zero chance ZOS is going to create a global auction house no matter how vocal the minority who wants one decide to be. A global auction house will simply be far too disruptive of a change.

    I'm convinced the majority of players asking for a global auction house are the flippers who just want to run up the prices on rare items so they can make gold easier. Their intentions are self serving, not a genuine effort at promoting a way to make the game better.

    Edited by SaffronCitrusflower on January 21, 2024 3:13PM
  • Pixiepumpkin
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    Being honest is admitting that people join guilds for many reasons, not just for trade. MMO's are for making friends, grouping up, and helping each other achieve in game goals. MMO's are not for casual solo questers who never want to interact with other players.
    And even ZOS agrees that they need to work on reasons for people to join guilds, becasue most of it is for trading.
    I have no interest in making friends in MMORPGs, neither does my wife. We like playing together and often make our own guild (so we dont get spammed with guild invites). ESO of any MMORPG out there is the most solo friendly and desinged that way. I like seeing people run around, making the world come alive, but outside of helping someone randomly who needs it, I'd rather not engage with other players. And I'd argue more people play like my wife and I do than play to meet friends.
    A global auction house is a horrible idea for ESO. It will radically upset the guild structure, the economy, and be changing the fundamental design of the game that makes ESO unique.

    Not at all. Read the entire thread for your answers.

    "𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖓 𝕲𝖔𝖉𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖑𝖎𝖐𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖆𝖇𝖘𝖔𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖊, 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖐𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝖘𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖑𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖗 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖘." ― Sotha Sil
    PC/NA
  • Pixiepumpkin
    Pixiepumpkin
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    Please just stop trying to make the game what you want it to be rather than what it was designed to be. The vast majority of players like, or at least prefer, the trading system as it is now better than a central auction house, and there is zero chance ZOS is going to create a global auction house no matter how vocal the minority who wants one decide to be. A global auction house will simply be far too disruptive of a change.
    As customers of this product, we have a right to voice our opinons on the matter. MMORPGs are ever growing and need to meet the demand of the players needs. I would argue that the vast majority of people DO NOT like the guild trade system and would prefer a central auction house. Its easier, less effort to list, generally has a much much higher listing amount and it saves a TON of time, and that alone is the primary reason so many folks dislike the guild trade system, its a waste of time and I only have so many hours left in life. Playing to have fun is one thing, wasting time to pad excel sheets is another.
    I'm convinced the majority of players asking for a global auction house are the flippers who just want to run up the prices on rare items so they can make gold easier. Their intentions are self serving, not promoting a way to make the game better.
    And I am convinced that the majority arguing against a central auction house simply want to keep control of the system they currently control, along with the billions of gold they make.
    I also wonder if there are RMT elements to this as well. As you say, self serving.




    Edited by Pixiepumpkin on January 21, 2024 3:19PM
    "𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖓 𝕲𝖔𝖉𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖑𝖎𝖐𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖆𝖇𝖘𝖔𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖊, 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖐𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝖘𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖑𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖗 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖘." ― Sotha Sil
    PC/NA
  • SaffronCitrusflower
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    @ZOS_Kevin

    Can we please just shut down this useless back and forth? This thread has devolved into polite name calling and is never going to result in anyone convincing anyone of anything. Further, ZOS is not going to implement a global auction house, so the entire discussion is mute.

    Thanks for your consideration.
  • Pixiepumpkin
    Pixiepumpkin
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    @ZOS_Kevin

    Can we please just shut down this useless back and forth? This thread has devolved into polite name calling and is never going to result in anyone convincing anyone of anything. Further, ZOS is not going to implement a global auction house, so the entire discussion is mute.

    Thanks for your consideration.

    No one is name calling, and please do not try to get a thread shut down because it does not coincide with your perspective on the topic.

    Please, allow us to express our voice on the matter. We are paying customers as well.

    Edited by Pixiepumpkin on January 21, 2024 3:29PM
    "𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖓 𝕲𝖔𝖉𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖑𝖎𝖐𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖆𝖇𝖘𝖔𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖊, 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖐𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝖘𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖑𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖗 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖘." ― Sotha Sil
    PC/NA
  • Four_Fingers
    Four_Fingers
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    See the thing is it is ZOS's game and they are going to implement their vision of what the game is.
    We as customers have input but and they do listen, but not at the detriment of their vision and bottom line most of all.
    Now if anyone has a couple of million to invest I am sure they will listen a little harder. :D
  • Kidgangster101
    Kidgangster101
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    Northwold wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Why do you guys want to change the fundamental design of ESO? There are lots of other games out there that have an auction house and no incentive to join guilds.

    Let's be honest, here. If the only reason people join guilds is because the game forces people to join guilds so that they can sell stuff (though I hope that's not the case), then a more comprehensive rethink of how to make guilds attractive is in order. That would amount to a complete failure of game design.

    Being honest is admitting that people join guilds for many reasons, not just for trade. MMO's are for making friends, grouping up, and helping each other achieve in game goals. MMO's are not for casual solo questers who never want to interact with other players.

    A global auction house is a horrible idea for ESO. It will radically upset the guild structure, the economy, and be changing the fundamental design of the game that makes ESO unique.



    If that's the case though then your guild should be able to stay together and be social. If the only reason your guild exists is strictly because it's tied to the trader system we go back to what the person before was saying. It forces you to join a guild strictly to have access to a feature that every other game offers without needing a guild.

    I can tell you now when I played I never spoke once in my trader guilds. I had a pvp guild I ran with a pve guild I ran with and the rest were trader guilds that I never even said hi in....... So am I the problem for that? No not at all. If I wasn't forced into those guilds I would have joined extra pve guilds and probably talked in those. But that alone shows a system that needs work.
  • Melivar
    Melivar
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    As I have mentioned before I don't think the current system is going anywhere but barring logistical issues perhaps ZOS could provide an alternative that would benefit the solo players.

    Add one guild vendor to the primary hub of the expansion that moves as the game move and allow non guild members to contribute to vendor location. If the total of all participants equals the minimum bid or average bid of a guild purchased vendor (not sure how to balance this on location) the vendor opens with all the standard trader rules limit of 500 people 30 items and the guild cut just goes into the pool for the next weeks bid. Perhaps only players who participate in securing the vendor have access (again not sure about logistics or tracking)

    If the cost of the vendor isn't met it just remains blank for the week with people able to try again next week, My guild with no fees, auctions etc gets a trader most weeks but there are times we go without so should work the same.
  • kargen27
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    Stx wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    Lumsdenml wrote: »
    reazea wrote: »
    Hard no on an auction house. Trade guilds are an integral part of the game and the current system controls inflation in a way a central auction house will not. Things are already too expensive, especially for new players. A central auction house would blow up the in game economy.

    This is often asserted, without any proof.

    No one knows for sure what would happen if things were centralized. It is too big of a change to fully predict.

    We still need some central way to find things and "reasonable" prices. That can happen in the current system, but it really is needed!

    It's very simple to know what would happen with an AH, rich people would corner the market and jack up the prices. Why would you not under that system? Sit at one place, buy up all the sales of a rare item and post them for twice the price. It's simple. Just ask yourself in which system would that be harder, the current where you have to run around everywhere or just sit in one place? Hard no.

    But that can only happen if the population is small and the items on the AH are not being replentished.

    People always leave that part out. Its not like everything is going to be bought up, relisted higher and sell, because items are always going to be listed to be sold. The flippers would not be able to keep up.

    Rare items could be purchased and flipped higher, but that already happens now due to addons that ping flippers with items that have been listed cheaper.

    Again you are concentrating on common items. Rare items are not all of a sudden be more abundant in the game. They are rare not because players hoard them but because they are hard to come by. Common items would drop in price just as you say. That means casual players have a harder time making gold so will have a harder time affording the rare items that will increase in price.

    Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.

    Casual players can sell items to guild mates in a social guild even it they do not have a trader. Casual players can sell items in zone chat. If a casual player doesn't want to join a guild that gets a trader that is their choice. There are guilds with no dues that have a trader almost every week. One I was in for quite a while had only one requirement. You had to log into the game at least once a month.
    The current system has many different levels and the more you participate the more you get out of it. Kind of like trials. If you want to run vet hard mode trials you join a guild and get on a progression team. If you just want to run normal you can find groups in zone.
    Putting in an auction house now would double thump casual players. There is enough gold in the game that a few players could easily drive up prices on rare items and the abundance of common items would make it harder to earn gold just starting out or through casual play.

    So casual players need to go out of their way to participate in a thing that is a basic function to games? People say just join a trader guilds and make friends ECT..... But you know that's called a social guild so why not just make social guilds more important you shouldn't be forced to pay dues to make gold. Again I'm saying this as a person that has so much gold. I quit the game due to how the reading system is, how they ruined pvp, how the game is so laggy.

    I can come back right now and just flip a bunch of stuff to double my money, I could do the same in central AH except I take more risk because EVERYONE in the game has access to it and can keep undercutting me. Or keep me having to buy stock out over and over and over again. Anyone that wants to make gold will always find a way to no matter the system.

    Yes it is harder to do in the current system, but guess what? ALL the time I spend traveling and flipping items in the current system is me ignoring content. All those shouts I see for a tank for content is ignored just becaus I need to do my rounds. Just saying again no system is perfect but this one has failed terribly (and it really only benefits the rich because they can just get richer and richer..... Isn't that the #1 complaint for not having a central AH?) Just saying.......

    There are plenty of social guilds with no dues that have traders. You flipping items and ignoring content isn't any different than people running trials ignoring other content, or people dueling ignoring other content. Players participate in the game how they wish and ignore what they don't want to bother with.
    This system has not failed. The economy is vibrant and flowing. The prices respond well to supply and demand. Any player can participate if they wish and those who put in more time are rewarded for their efforts. And yes people will find a way to make gold no matter the system. Players making gold isn't the problem. The problem would be a few players being able to monopolize rare items.
    Again you would be taking away a part of the game many people enjoy for no added benefit to the game. In fact the change to central system stands a better chance of being detrimental to the game. Common goods drop to vendor prices and rare items cost more. It has happened in other games with a central system so why would ESO be different?
    You have the added problem that many players are sitting on mounds of gold and could easily afford to manipulate the market. What stops them now is goods being scattered across over 200 traders. Had the game started with a central system from the very beginning maybe it wouldn't be as big a deal. To change now would wreck the economy.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
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    Stx wrote: »
    Not having an auction house is what hurts casual players. Casual players don’t / aren’t going to spend the time to join a guild just to sell their valuable items.

    That may be true for some, but it's quite the generalization.

    This particular former casual solo quester took a chance and joined a trading guild three years ago and became an engaged, subbed endgamer.

    I for one am glad that the design of the guild trader system got me to step out of my comfort zone a little bit and engage more with the larger game. To be totally honest, I probably wouldn't still be here today otherwise.

    You are probably the exception rather than the rule. I am in several trading guilds (and have been in more in the past) on PC NA/EU and PS5 NA/EU. I have a long history with several but I am still not close to any of the people in them largely because I am a loner at heart and really being active in a group is a push for me personally. I expect I am not as rare as many may think.

    I do donate to the groups and try to sell (though doing so on console is much more of a pain, both for figuring out selling price and communicating without keyboard) but I am not as engaged as some.

    I may try voice chat again on the PS5. I hate many parts of the interface there, lacking the addon features, but I do enjoy sitting in a comfy chair playing on my 70 inch TV, so I find I am playing on both for now. I was going to try and take it easier, but making all daily endeavors and hopefully a full set of event quests (1 in Imperial City, 2 in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane and Gold Cost) sucks up time.


    Play PS5 as well. Buy a Bluetooth keyboard. It is so much easier with one for typing. For what is worth, I also use rechargeable batteries. Which honestly lasted me over a month between charges.

    Stay safe :)
  • Northwold
    Northwold
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    Can we please just shut down this useless back and forth? This thread has devolved into polite name calling and is never going to result in anyone convincing anyone of anything. Further, ZOS is not going to implement a global auction house, so the entire discussion is mute.

    Thanks for your consideration.

    Without wishing to go into this in depth, I don't think it's fair to call for the closure of a thread simply because you don't like the idea. Many users are as passionate about the trading system as others are about, say, account wide achievements and PvP server performance. I can't see why people bored of those subjects could legitimately demand they be shut down any more than that would be legitimate here.

    And I don't think it's fair to object here to "polite name calling". The other poster's description of users being "self serving", which presumably is the "polite name calling" you refer to, was quoting you(!!!!) when you wrote this:

    "Their intentions are self serving, not a genuine effort at promoting a way to make the game better."

    What I see overall in this thread is a largely very civilised, factual discussion of issues with the trading system from various perspectives. That discussion includes a number of posters suggesting possible compromises that might adjust the system rather than wholly remove it, others contributing arguments for and against such proposals, and consideration of some of the issues relating to how trading systems in this and other MMOs play out in practice (such as inflation). Not bad, and pretty constructive, as forum discussions go.
    Edited by Northwold on March 1, 2024 11:33AM
  • ShalidorsHeir
    ShalidorsHeir
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    no we can NOT get an action house because it would mean the removal of base game content for many players / guilds [snip]

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 22, 2024 5:44PM
    Eltrys Wolfszahn
    Julia Ansei at-Tava
    C H I M
    "Find a new hill, become a king"
  • LalMirchi
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    While I'm adamantly against the destruction of existing guilds to force an auction house into the game at this late point.

    I thought of a compromise, here's a suggestion.

    Introducing The Searcher:

    A new searching NPC on all platforms available to all players (preferably a Watcher NPC as they know secrets).

    The Searcher NPC can search all guilds for an item (not just based on just a few letters but very specific items) at a speed that would not overload the database.

    Perhaps the Searcher UI should not ever automatically search but wait until one has inputted all the search criteria correctly before activating search button. Once again reducing load on the database.

    Yes, we will still have to travel to the place where the item is listed but now with a greater chance of actually being able to purchase the search target.
  • RetPing
    RetPing
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    LalMirchi wrote: »

    Introducing The Searcher:

    A new searching NPC on all platforms available to all players (preferably a Watcher NPC as they know secrets).
    .

    you cant even search guilds using their names in guild finder and you want ZOS to program such a complicated thing :D
  • DarkWombat
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    I have a couple friends who say its the number one reason they wont play and I agree.
    As successful as ESO has been, an auction house would be amazing.
  • Dankulakhan
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    I don't really get it. Why not to introduce an Auction House... but make it so that you still need to be a part of trading guild and have a "trading representative" NPC hired with a shop somewhere. Literally the system stays the same, but now with a board with centralized search.
  • Ingenon
    Ingenon
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    I would really like if ESO introduced a capability like TTC across all the servers. On PS/NA, if I want to know a price for something, I need to travel to multiple locations and check many traders while scribbling the item offer prices down on a scrap of paper, or manually entering them on a computer. Folks on PC/EU or PC/NA just check TTC, and you have a decent idea of what to pay for something, or list it for sale at.

    I think it would be a quality of life upgrade feature for the game if I could type in one item name, and find the average price it sold for across the guild traders. Update it once per day during a time that the servers are quiet. Buyers and sellers would benefit. Sure, I would still have to travel around to find stuff on PS/NA, but at least I would have some idea from the average sold price if I'm getting a fair deal. And I would have a better idea how much to ask for when selling stuff.

    Edited by Ingenon on January 22, 2024 7:44PM
  • mpmp0b14_ESO
    mpmp0b14_ESO
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    As a console casual who prefers soloing (no guild), I'm really disappointed that no auction house was announced in the upcoming 2024 update. At least PC players have add ons that can make the process less painful.

    At this point, even a separate trade channel would be more helpful.
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