Can we please get a Auction House?

FlopsyPrince · January 2024

Competition exists with a Central AH, such as in WoW. Arguing this system is the best for that ignores that reality.

Lumsdenml · January 2024

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Competition exists with a Central AH, such as in WoW. Arguing this system is the best for that ignores that reality.

True, but it makes it very easy for wealthy players to snap up rare items and be the only seller of those. This eliminates competition...

Kidgangster101 · January 2024

Vulkunne wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

A central Auction House eliminates healthy competition. In other words, I'm no longer free to market my sales or my legitimate idea to make gold in-house, I am forced to lower my prices to a lower price which can be forced on everyone by another party manipulating the market.

Erm... (my emphasis in bold, yours preserved in bold italic)

Edit : To elaborate, you appear to be claiming predatory pricing would happen. Predatory pricing, in the real world, is rewarding behaviour where a market has high startup or capital / fixed costs because it causes competitors to make a loss that, eventually, they can't endure and have to leave the market. Eg running a factory below cost.

The premise that that would be an effective strategy in an MMO using an auction house is, er, questionable. If ex guilds wanted to do this, fine, maybe other sellers would be disgruntled, but what would be achieved? The moment they put the prices up again other sellers would come back because an MMO has effectively *no costs at all* except time spent farming something or other.

So, as a trading strategy, a guild doing this to drive people away would be completely and utterly pointless.

What you're actually describing is healthy price competition.

@Northwold

Thanks for your reply regarding the pricing component

So I would argue that in this scenario its not impossible to compete however there is no sport in having competition for the sake of competition. And when I look at the Trade Post and there's literal hundreds if not many times thousands of sellers all selling something for roughly the same really low price then no that's not right.

And thats what can happen you have someone buy up enough of a market to bring the price way down and then other individual, probably hard working sellers come along and no they can't compete with that as far as getting the price they would prefer for their sale. Just like the Iron Ore fiasco, yeah its cheap but no one wants to sell it because people will only buy it for the lowest price, aside from some random exception which does happen.

To me that's not a healthy market when I'm forced to lose money because someone else wants to basically give things away. You know I understand folks are different and have different opinions on things and that's fine but just don't stop other people from making money because someone else has a point to make.

@Vulkunne

Ok let's use real life as an example and then I'll mix in how it relates to the game and the difference between PC and console.

In real life I'm a collector of classic video games. Sobe are easy to get, so we are hard to get, and some are damn near impossible.tp get and only have X amount ever even made.

The easy to get ones usually are overly populated and no matter where you go in different shops they are all priced low to maybe just get a sale. Using a central AH yes easy to get items will always flood the market and be cheap. On console games right now some people know a stack of easy material is dirt cheap if they go to a random trader in the middle of no where, BUT if you don't know it's cheap you go to a main city location (easiest to get to usually) and they are jacked up so that person buys it not knowing any better and they paid maybe 2x the amount they could have if they only had a way of knowing. Now let's look at PC. You guys get the privilege of using an add on and it tells you hey this items costs on average is X amount. If you go to a vendor you are knowledgeable enough to know hey I'm getting screwed here. (Same with selling you learn market value of the item where console lacks that ability).

Now let's talk about hard items. They are priced higher than your common item because they are rarer to get. Prices may vary slightly but usually within the same ball park figure. Again on console sometimes you have a rare item listed for 1000 gold so some shark scoops it up and places the rare item up for maybe 12-100k depending on the item. Seller gets screwed because how were they supposed to know because for them to research takes a lot of time traveling between many towns and very long load screens to maybe find out they were right or wrong depending on the item. How is that different from PC? Again an add on (literally very similar to a central AH because it gives you items sold when and how much) is available to you. So yes you guys don't feel robbed in the slightest because you have the knowledge and power to check compared to console players.

Lastly the very rare items worth a lot of money. The motifs that are super rare drops as an example. Rinse and repeat the exact words I said in the last paragraph. Except this time it is a much much much wider scale maybe now your talking 300k+. Now what's worse on these very rare items is maybe someone isn't in a trading guild what do they do? I've seen some people just vendor them for pennies.

So now that goes back to the idea of a way to inform people going rates because pc players and people exploiting this market come in all the time and say it's working as intended. So if it's working as intended why do PC players even need to look at an addon? If it's working as intended why is there so much complaints from console players? If it's working as it's intended the talk of a central ah or a central hub in cities to track and locate items and make items a similar price wouldn't be asked for since launch of the game now would it? Legitimately people have said fine keep the traders but please for the love of God allow us to search items prices/locations so I at least know where to start looking and that is even a solid no to players (mainly PC players or it is legit someone taking advantage of this exact market). Like I have stated several times I have made billions off people who legitimately don't have an understanding..........

I along with others have been on the receiving end many times of looking at 200+ guilds for a motif wasting hours for it and have it be no where. Is our time on console not worth anything to people? Because with the stoke of a button and seconds on PC you have the ability to see it's not listed in one vendor according to your addon that should be a base function of the game.

VoidCommander · January 2024

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

A central Auction House eliminates healthy competition. In other words, I'm no longer free to market my sales or my legitimate idea to make gold in-house, I am forced to lower my prices to a lower price which can be forced on everyone by another party manipulating the market.

Erm... (my emphasis in bold, yours preserved in bold italic)

Edit : To elaborate, you appear to be claiming predatory pricing would happen. Predatory pricing, in the real world, is rewarding behaviour where a market has high startup or capital / fixed costs because it causes competitors to make a loss that, eventually, they can't endure and have to leave the market. Eg running a factory below cost.

The premise that that would be an effective strategy in an MMO using an auction house is, er, questionable. If ex guilds wanted to do this, fine, maybe other sellers would be disgruntled, but what would be achieved? The moment they put the prices up again other sellers would come back because an MMO has effectively *no costs at all* except time spent farming something or other.

So, as a trading strategy, a guild doing this to drive people away would be completely and utterly pointless.

What you're actually describing is healthy price competition.

@Northwold

Thanks for your reply regarding the pricing component

So I would argue that in this scenario its not impossible to compete however there is no sport in having competition for the sake of competition. And when I look at the Trade Post and there's literal hundreds if not many times thousands of sellers all selling something for roughly the same really low price then no that's not right.

And thats what can happen you have someone buy up enough of a market to bring the price way down and then other individual, probably hard working sellers come along and no they can't compete with that as far as getting the price they would prefer for their sale. Just like the Iron Ore fiasco, yeah its cheap but no one wants to sell it because people will only buy it for the lowest price, aside from some random exception which does happen.

To me that's not a healthy market when I'm forced to lose money because someone else wants to basically give things away. You know I understand folks are different and have different opinions on things and that's fine but just don't stop other people from making money because someone else has a point to make.

@Vulkunne

Ok let's use real life as an example and then I'll mix in how it relates to the game and the difference between PC and console.

In real life I'm a collector of classic video games. Sobe are easy to get, so we are hard to get, and some are damn near impossible.tp get and only have X amount ever even made.

The easy to get ones usually are overly populated and no matter where you go in different shops they are all priced low to maybe just get a sale. Using a central AH yes easy to get items will always flood the market and be cheap. On console games right now some people know a stack of easy material is dirt cheap if they go to a random trader in the middle of no where, BUT if you don't know it's cheap you go to a main city location (easiest to get to usually) and they are jacked up so that person buys it not knowing any better and they paid maybe 2x the amount they could have if they only had a way of knowing. Now let's look at PC. You guys get the privilege of using an add on and it tells you hey this items costs on average is X amount. If you go to a vendor you are knowledgeable enough to know hey I'm getting screwed here. (Same with selling you learn market value of the item where console lacks that ability).

Now let's talk about hard items. They are priced higher than your common item because they are rarer to get. Prices may vary slightly but usually within the same ball park figure. Again on console sometimes you have a rare item listed for 1000 gold so some shark scoops it up and places the rare item up for maybe 12-100k depending on the item. Seller gets screwed because how were they supposed to know because for them to research takes a lot of time traveling between many towns and very long load screens to maybe find out they were right or wrong depending on the item. How is that different from PC? Again an add on (literally very similar to a central AH because it gives you items sold when and how much) is available to you. So yes you guys don't feel robbed in the slightest because you have the knowledge and power to check compared to console players.

Lastly the very rare items worth a lot of money. The motifs that are super rare drops as an example. Rinse and repeat the exact words I said in the last paragraph. Except this time it is a much much much wider scale maybe now your talking 300k+. Now what's worse on these very rare items is maybe someone isn't in a trading guild what do they do? I've seen some people just vendor them for pennies.

So now that goes back to the idea of a way to inform people going rates because pc players and people exploiting this market come in all the time and say it's working as intended. So if it's working as intended why do PC players even need to look at an addon? If it's working as intended why is there so much complaints from console players? If it's working as it's intended the talk of a central ah or a central hub in cities to track and locate items and make items a similar price wouldn't be asked for since launch of the game now would it? Legitimately people have said fine keep the traders but please for the love of God allow us to search items prices/locations so I at least know where to start looking and that is even a solid no to players (mainly PC players or it is legit someone taking advantage of this exact market). Like I have stated several times I have made billions off people who legitimately don't have an understanding..........

Maybe this is just me, but I cannot begin to fathom why anyone would willingly subject themselves to playing this game on console over PC. Before you say PCs are more expensive, this GAME is expensive as hell. If you are on console because you can't afford an $800-$1000 gaming laptop and chose to play one of the most egregiously monetized MMOs on the market (that isn't a Korean gotcha game) I don't know how to help you.

Lumsdenml · January 2024

VoidCommander wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

A central Auction House eliminates healthy competition. In other words, I'm no longer free to market my sales or my legitimate idea to make gold in-house, I am forced to lower my prices to a lower price which can be forced on everyone by another party manipulating the market.

Erm... (my emphasis in bold, yours preserved in bold italic)

Edit : To elaborate, you appear to be claiming predatory pricing would happen. Predatory pricing, in the real world, is rewarding behaviour where a market has high startup or capital / fixed costs because it causes competitors to make a loss that, eventually, they can't endure and have to leave the market. Eg running a factory below cost.

The premise that that would be an effective strategy in an MMO using an auction house is, er, questionable. If ex guilds wanted to do this, fine, maybe other sellers would be disgruntled, but what would be achieved? The moment they put the prices up again other sellers would come back because an MMO has effectively *no costs at all* except time spent farming something or other.

So, as a trading strategy, a guild doing this to drive people away would be completely and utterly pointless.

What you're actually describing is healthy price competition.

@Northwold

Thanks for your reply regarding the pricing component

So I would argue that in this scenario its not impossible to compete however there is no sport in having competition for the sake of competition. And when I look at the Trade Post and there's literal hundreds if not many times thousands of sellers all selling something for roughly the same really low price then no that's not right.

And thats what can happen you have someone buy up enough of a market to bring the price way down and then other individual, probably hard working sellers come along and no they can't compete with that as far as getting the price they would prefer for their sale. Just like the Iron Ore fiasco, yeah its cheap but no one wants to sell it because people will only buy it for the lowest price, aside from some random exception which does happen.

To me that's not a healthy market when I'm forced to lose money because someone else wants to basically give things away. You know I understand folks are different and have different opinions on things and that's fine but just don't stop other people from making money because someone else has a point to make.

@Vulkunne

Ok let's use real life as an example and then I'll mix in how it relates to the game and the difference between PC and console.

In real life I'm a collector of classic video games. Sobe are easy to get, so we are hard to get, and some are damn near impossible.tp get and only have X amount ever even made.

The easy to get ones usually are overly populated and no matter where you go in different shops they are all priced low to maybe just get a sale. Using a central AH yes easy to get items will always flood the market and be cheap. On console games right now some people know a stack of easy material is dirt cheap if they go to a random trader in the middle of no where, BUT if you don't know it's cheap you go to a main city location (easiest to get to usually) and they are jacked up so that person buys it not knowing any better and they paid maybe 2x the amount they could have if they only had a way of knowing. Now let's look at PC. You guys get the privilege of using an add on and it tells you hey this items costs on average is X amount. If you go to a vendor you are knowledgeable enough to know hey I'm getting screwed here. (Same with selling you learn market value of the item where console lacks that ability).

Now let's talk about hard items. They are priced higher than your common item because they are rarer to get. Prices may vary slightly but usually within the same ball park figure. Again on console sometimes you have a rare item listed for 1000 gold so some shark scoops it up and places the rare item up for maybe 12-100k depending on the item. Seller gets screwed because how were they supposed to know because for them to research takes a lot of time traveling between many towns and very long load screens to maybe find out they were right or wrong depending on the item. How is that different from PC? Again an add on (literally very similar to a central AH because it gives you items sold when and how much) is available to you. So yes you guys don't feel robbed in the slightest because you have the knowledge and power to check compared to console players.

Lastly the very rare items worth a lot of money. The motifs that are super rare drops as an example. Rinse and repeat the exact words I said in the last paragraph. Except this time it is a much much much wider scale maybe now your talking 300k+. Now what's worse on these very rare items is maybe someone isn't in a trading guild what do they do? I've seen some people just vendor them for pennies.

So now that goes back to the idea of a way to inform people going rates because pc players and people exploiting this market come in all the time and say it's working as intended. So if it's working as intended why do PC players even need to look at an addon? If it's working as intended why is there so much complaints from console players? If it's working as it's intended the talk of a central ah or a central hub in cities to track and locate items and make items a similar price wouldn't be asked for since launch of the game now would it? Legitimately people have said fine keep the traders but please for the love of God allow us to search items prices/locations so I at least know where to start looking and that is even a solid no to players (mainly PC players or it is legit someone taking advantage of this exact market). Like I have stated several times I have made billions off people who legitimately don't have an understanding..........

Maybe this is just me, but I cannot begin to fathom why anyone would willingly subject themselves to playing this game on console over PC. Before you say PCs are more expensive, this GAME is expensive as hell. If you are on console because you can't afford an $800-$1000 gaming laptop and chose to play one of the most egregiously monetized MMOs on the market (that isn't a Korean gotcha game) I don't know how to help you.

That's a choice. You can spend $10-20 on the game and have hundreds of hours of content to play.

spartaxoxo · January 2024

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Competition exists with a Central AH, such as in WoW. Arguing this system is the best for that ignores that reality.

Competition definitely exists in all the MMOs.

I will say that it doesn't exist as strongly as it does here though. Every other MMO I have played had an auction house. And the inflation in those games was always pretty big by this many years later. Meanwhile, console doesn't suffer from large inflation. I think a big part of that is how much harder it is to flip things. Buy low and sell high exists here but not to the same extent as it does in other games. And I think the bootleg auction houses on PC is one of many reasons that PC's economy has more inflation than console.

Pixiepumpkin · January 2024

Lumsdenml wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Competition exists with a Central AH, such as in WoW. Arguing this system is the best for that ignores that reality.

True, but it makes it very easy for wealthy players to snap up rare items and be the only seller of those. This eliminates competition...

That happens in ESO due to addons. The fact is if the player population is healty enough, no one can corner the market on standard goods like mundane runes, heartwood etc. But because that does happen in ESO (not necessarily with those mats), one has to question if the player base is as healthy/large as promoted.

Because this issue did not happen in wow with their central auction house AND one would think that becuase wow has 200+ servers vs ESO's "mega server" that the issue would be LESS problematic in ESO, again due to the "large player base".

It cant be both ways. Either a central auction house would not be an issue due to the size of the player base, or the player base is not as large as promoted.

spartaxoxo · January 2024

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

That happens in ESO due to addons.

It doesn't happen on ESO either. People say it's a few people but it's actually a general practice of heavy traders. Few relative to the size of the playerbase and the ones who trade, not few as in it's literally only a couple of guys.

Pixiepumpkin · January 2024

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

That happens in ESO due to addons.

It doesn't happen on ESO either.

I know for a fact it does, I was in discord 3 or 4 years ago with 2 guild leaders bragging about controlling the mundane rune market and pushing up prices.

It very much happens in ESO.

Northwold · January 2024

The way this thread is going I'm starting to think the economic justification for traders is entirely circular:

1.Traders promote high inflation by concentrating trade activity on a microscopically low number of trading guilds that happen to have prime trader slots in the most visited cities, on behalf of a relatively microscopically low number of players. Other traders are essentially irrelevant to prevailing pricing.

2. Because the trader system causes inflation, "we need traders because gold sink" (via trader bids).

Meanwhile:

1. For a fraction of players who think it's really good to expend half a day going from out of town trader to out of town trader via load screen after load screen it's a lovely shopping experience.

2. For some sellers it works out quite well because, hey, I'm all right Jack and price competition is economically evil(?!?!).

Bit of a problem, no? Who exactly is this system supposed to be for? Would it not be appropriate to design the system around, you know, the broader player base buying and selling? Which is what trading is meant to be about?

And if, beyond that, the primary rationale for the system is to get people to join guilds:

1. Maybe stop marketing ESO as casual and solo friendly.

And

2. Given the importance of the system, surely it's possible to find better ways to make guilds attractive than to force people to join them because otherwise they can't use a basic game system??

The more I think about this logically, the more absurd this setup seems to be.

Lumsdenml · January 2024

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Competition exists with a Central AH, such as in WoW. Arguing this system is the best for that ignores that reality.

True, but it makes it very easy for wealthy players to snap up rare items and be the only seller of those. This eliminates competition...

That happens in ESO due to addons. The fact is if the player population is healty enough, no one can corner the market on standard goods like mundane runes, heartwood etc. But because that does happen in ESO (not necessarily with those mats), one has to question if the player base is as healthy/large as promoted.

Because this issue did not happen in wow with their central auction house AND one would think that becuase wow has 200+ servers vs ESO's "mega server" that the issue would be LESS problematic in ESO, again due to the "large player base".

It cant be both ways. Either a central auction house would not be an issue due to the size of the player base, or the player base is not as large as promoted.

Yes, it does happen in ESO, however, because there is a time barrier in that people my go to many locations to do this, it does stop some people from doing it. So if that barrier were removed, more people would do it.

Pixiepumpkin · January 2024

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Competition exists with a Central AH, such as in WoW. Arguing this system is the best for that ignores that reality.

True, but it makes it very easy for wealthy players to snap up rare items and be the only seller of those. This eliminates competition...

That happens in ESO due to addons. The fact is if the player population is healty enough, no one can corner the market on standard goods like mundane runes, heartwood etc. But because that does happen in ESO (not necessarily with those mats), one has to question if the player base is as healthy/large as promoted.

Because this issue did not happen in wow with their central auction house AND one would think that becuase wow has 200+ servers vs ESO's "mega server" that the issue would be LESS problematic in ESO, again due to the "large player base".

It cant be both ways. Either a central auction house would not be an issue due to the size of the player base, or the player base is not as large as promoted.

Yes, it does happen in ESO, however, because there is a time barrier in that people my go to many locations to do this, it does stop some people from doing it. So if that barrier were removed, more people would do it.

Except that under a central auction house, the items being sold would be centralized with a greater availability and coming in at a frequency fast enoguh that flippers would not be able to keep up.

Naltanir · January 2024

Same auction house than in wow pls

Lumsdenml · January 2024

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Competition exists with a Central AH, such as in WoW. Arguing this system is the best for that ignores that reality.

True, but it makes it very easy for wealthy players to snap up rare items and be the only seller of those. This eliminates competition...

That happens in ESO due to addons. The fact is if the player population is healty enough, no one can corner the market on standard goods like mundane runes, heartwood etc. But because that does happen in ESO (not necessarily with those mats), one has to question if the player base is as healthy/large as promoted.

Because this issue did not happen in wow with their central auction house AND one would think that becuase wow has 200+ servers vs ESO's "mega server" that the issue would be LESS problematic in ESO, again due to the "large player base".

It cant be both ways. Either a central auction house would not be an issue due to the size of the player base, or the player base is not as large as promoted.

Yes, it does happen in ESO, however, because there is a time barrier in that people my go to many locations to do this, it does stop some people from doing it. So if that barrier were removed, more people would do it.

Except that under a central auction house, the items being sold would be centralized with a greater availability and coming in at a frequency fast enoguh that flippers would not be able to keep up.

I disagree. You don't think that some of the larger trading guilds have enough people to watch an AH 24/7 with addons? Also, with many rare items, the frequency wouldn't be very high..... Such as a certain banner from Morrowind....

spartaxoxo · January 2024

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

That happens in ESO due to addons.

It doesn't happen on ESO either.

I know for a fact it does, I was in discord 3 or 4 years ago with 2 guild leaders bragging about controlling the mundane rune market and pushing up prices.

It very much happens in ESO.

They probably just meant the mundanes at the capital city traders. Something like that would be feasible since the item is not in high supply but not the entire market.

Lumsdenml · January 2024

Naltanir wrote: »

Same auction house than in wow pls

Hard no.

FlopsyPrince · January 2024

Vulkunne wrote: »

To me that's not a healthy market when I'm forced to lose money because someone else wants to basically give things away. You know I understand folks are different and have different opinions on things and that's fine but just don't stop other people from making money because someone else has a point to make.

How are you ever forced to lose money?

You would only have any pressure there if you were flipping, but even that wouldn't be forced.

You and all of us have to sell for what the market will pay.

FlopsyPrince · January 2024

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Maybe this is just me, but I cannot begin to fathom why anyone would willingly subject themselves to playing this game on console over PC. Before you say PCs are more expensive, this GAME is expensive as hell. If you are on console because you can't afford an $800-$1000 gaming laptop and chose to play one of the most egregiously monetized MMOs on the market (that isn't a Korean gotcha game) I don't know how to help you.

I recently returned after a break of a bit over a year. I paid for ESO+ on the PC and then on console. I figured the money is not huge for me personally and I enjoy playing on my 70 inch TV, in spite of the limits of the PS5.

I really want many better things, so I am not sure how much time I will ultimately spend on the PS5 past building out my Arcanist alt and likely doing endeavors, but it would be nice if some things, like TTC functionality, were in the game!

kargen27 · January 2024

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

There is no abuse of the system.
There is no exploitation of the market now.
You can't corner the market.

I literally gave a recent, concrete example of abusing the system, exploiting the market, and cornering the market for several rare items by two different people, in this very thread.

As I stated a couple of times if you are counting on TTC to find things you are going to miss the opportunity to purchase most of the time. TTC is not a live data base and sometimes is drastically outdated. Sometimes items are gone before they get listed and sometimes one item gets listed multiple times.
No way two people were watching over 200 traders. Even if what you say were true a central location would only make it much easier for two people to monopolize the market. No way around that.
The current system could use a few minor tweaks but overall it is a very good system that keeps the economy going strong.

TTC clearly has enough penetration in the player base that it is mostly accurate. I tried visiting other vendors to catch the items I was looking for that might have been escaping TTC's "notice", but I couldn't find any. And I've never seen a dupe.

I didn't say they were watching 200 traders. They were clearly watching TTC. And that was enough.

You can't handwave TTC away to try to make a rhetorical point. It's plenty accurate for the purpose it serves. It's a thing that almost everyone relies on now. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

So maybe the answer is disable how TTC functions in the game? I've not found it to be all that accurate other than at the high traffic locations and then again if you see it on TTC and it is a bargain it is already gone most of the time.

kargen27 · January 2024

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Competition exists with a Central AH, such as in WoW. Arguing this system is the best for that ignores that reality.

True, but it makes it very easy for wealthy players to snap up rare items and be the only seller of those. This eliminates competition...

That happens in ESO due to addons. The fact is if the player population is healty enough, no one can corner the market on standard goods like mundane runes, heartwood etc. But because that does happen in ESO (not necessarily with those mats), one has to question if the player base is as healthy/large as promoted.

Because this issue did not happen in wow with their central auction house AND one would think that becuase wow has 200+ servers vs ESO's "mega server" that the issue would be LESS problematic in ESO, again due to the "large player base".

It cant be both ways. Either a central auction house would not be an issue due to the size of the player base, or the player base is not as large as promoted.

No monopoly happens in ESO with the current system. Nobody has cornered the market other than for a few hours on items just introduced to the game. Player base has nothing to do with the fact that an auction house would make cornering a market much much easier. If we started with a central system that would be one thing. We did not and to change now would be devastating to the economy. Economy aside the change would take away the primary reason a lot of players still play the game.

Northwold · January 2024

kargen27 wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

There is no abuse of the system.
There is no exploitation of the market now.
You can't corner the market.

I literally gave a recent, concrete example of abusing the system, exploiting the market, and cornering the market for several rare items by two different people, in this very thread.

As I stated a couple of times if you are counting on TTC to find things you are going to miss the opportunity to purchase most of the time. TTC is not a live data base and sometimes is drastically outdated. Sometimes items are gone before they get listed and sometimes one item gets listed multiple times.
No way two people were watching over 200 traders. Even if what you say were true a central location would only make it much easier for two people to monopolize the market. No way around that.
The current system could use a few minor tweaks but overall it is a very good system that keeps the economy going strong.

TTC clearly has enough penetration in the player base that it is mostly accurate. I tried visiting other vendors to catch the items I was looking for that might have been escaping TTC's "notice", but I couldn't find any. And I've never seen a dupe.

I didn't say they were watching 200 traders. They were clearly watching TTC. And that was enough.

You can't handwave TTC away to try to make a rhetorical point. It's plenty accurate for the purpose it serves. It's a thing that almost everyone relies on now. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

So maybe the answer is disable how TTC functions in the game? I've not found it to be all that accurate other than at the high traffic locations and then again if you see it on TTC and it is a bargain it is already gone most of the time.

Yes please. If only because the demand for the trading system to be revised will become a riot.

Bo0137 · January 2024

I'm against an auction house

Melivar · January 2024

I would never say never as somethings thought not possible or that ZOS had previously said no to have come out much later.

However, if they wanted the game to work with a central auction house they would have built it that way. This is the plan that they choose and after a year of initially being frustrated as a solo player myself I do understand the want for an auction house. Seeling in zone chat can be a chore. And overall I would rather the system stay as is and not add an auction house as I think it would be bad for the overall health of the game. I will still be here either way as trading isn't high on my priority list.

Sure addons make the PC servers much more efficient if you know what you want and use TTC but the economy is also structured around it and pricing as such. You make more for things and spend more for things which also translates to the crown exchange rates on PC. until I am down to the last couple motifs or IC/Cyro weapons in a set I don't much bother looking things up on TTC and just like to roam around the world and see what I can find. I have a price threshold in mind and if I find the item I am looking for within a few % pts of that I make the purchase.

When prices are more than I am willing to pay I simple watch periodically or wait for an event which almost always drives prices down. Patience got me the Powerfull Assault Ice Staff for Just over 1,000,000 when it was averaging 3.5-4 and with one of the recent events pricing on a chest motif that simply never drops for anyone in any groups I have been in trying to farm finally fell from 2.5 million consistently to 500K and I grabbed it up.

The console system play the game in the truest form and their economies from what I see around the forums are much more in check. Crown exchange rate is lower, items overall cost less but at the same time you make less.

They could certainly add a few functions to the trader Seach, like search for unknown items and some others that addons for PC refine to make consoles and none addon using PC players life's much more efficient.

If you're not in a guild for whatever reason think about trying one out. Initially I joined a few just for trading but ultimately found a community that was pleasant and opened up many of the areas of the game I didn't initially plan to participate in such as trials and veteran dungeons with folks of similar mindset and not much drama.

SpacemanSpiff1 · January 2024

i prefer buying items to bidding on them.

SmellyUnlimited · January 2024

On console an auction house would be a major boon, as we don’t have access to TTC and the like. PC basically already operates as an auction house with this add on, so there’s no reason not to implement it and make it official for all players. Non-console players are essentially saying that it’s okay for PC to have this functionality, but no to console players having equal access.

Old zones have other reasons for going back to them (I.e. farming leads, nostalgia, shrines/mundus, surveys, etc.). The game keeps growing endlessly, so perusing traders is a cumbersome endeavor, especially when some areas may have just a single trader (Davon’s Watch). An auction house might also be a way to reign in the massive inflation that goes on for accessible guild traders in big cities who hoard billions of gold.

Lumsdenml · January 2024

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Maybe this is just me, but I cannot begin to fathom why anyone would willingly subject themselves to playing this game on console over PC. Before you say PCs are more expensive, this GAME is expensive as hell. If you are on console because you can't afford an $800-$1000 gaming laptop and chose to play one of the most egregiously monetized MMOs on the market (that isn't a Korean gotcha game) I don't know how to help you.

I recently returned after a break of a bit over a year. I paid for ESO+ on the PC and then on console. I figured the money is not huge for me personally and I enjoy playing on my 70 inch TV, in spite of the limits of the PS5.

I really want many better things, so I am not sure how much time I will ultimately spend on the PS5 past building out my Arcanist alt and likely doing endeavors, but it would be nice if some things, like TTC functionality, were in the game!

That wasn't my quote! Weird...

Kidgangster101 · January 2024

Melivar wrote: »

I would never say never as somethings thought not possible or that ZOS had previously said no to have come out much later.

However, if they wanted the game to work with a central auction house they would have built it that way. This is the plan that they choose and after a year of initially being frustrated as a solo player myself I do understand the want for an auction house. Seeling in zone chat can be a chore. And overall I would rather the system stay as is and not add an auction house as I think it would be bad for the overall health of the game. I will still be here either way as trading isn't high on my priority list.

Sure addons make the PC servers much more efficient if you know what you want and use TTC but the economy is also structured around it and pricing as such. You make more for things and spend more for things which also translates to the crown exchange rates on PC. until I am down to the last couple motifs or IC/Cyro weapons in a set I don't much bother looking things up on TTC and just like to roam around the world and see what I can find. I have a price threshold in mind and if I find the item I am looking for within a few % pts of that I make the purchase.

When prices are more than I am willing to pay I simple watch periodically or wait for an event which almost always drives prices down. Patience got me the Powerfull Assault Ice Staff for Just over 1,000,000 when it was averaging 3.5-4 and with one of the recent events pricing on a chest motif that simply never drops for anyone in any groups I have been in trying to farm finally fell from 2.5 million consistently to 500K and I grabbed it up.

The console system play the game in the truest form and their economies from what I see around the forums are much more in check. Crown exchange rate is lower, items overall cost less but at the same time you make less.

They could certainly add a few functions to the trader Seach, like search for unknown items and some others that addons for PC refine to make consoles and none addon using PC players life's much more efficient.

If you're not in a guild for whatever reason think about trying one out. Initially I joined a few just for trading but ultimately found a community that was pleasant and opened up many of the areas of the game I didn't initially plan to participate in such as trials and veteran dungeons with folks of similar mindset and not much drama.

This I have said so many times and I applaud your honest view of both console and PC unlike a lot of other PC players. Although I personally think a central ah in multiple cities would be ideal, I have stated so many times that any very useful addon like TTC should be included in the base game. The time it saves and knowledge it provides to any player would go a far way. Hell make it a vendor that charges you 10-15 gold per lookup but they view around the world to let console players know what prices are on average and locations they are currently in so we don't waste our time.

We live in the 21st century where this is a very casual MMO and a lot of people don't play for long periods at one sitting. The Game should do everything it can to make it good for casual players along with keeping things for hardcore players. I think you would stop getting central AH threads if players had an easier way to navigate this (cool on paper but not in practice) trading system unless you use the support of stuff not even programed in the game. My theory always is if you need to look outside the game for anything well then that should be added into the base game to make it that much better.

Vulkunne · January 2024

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

To me that's not a healthy market when I'm forced to lose money because someone else wants to basically give things away. You know I understand folks are different and have different opinions on things and that's fine but just don't stop other people from making money because someone else has a point to make.

How are you ever forced to lose money?

You would only have any pressure there if you were flipping, but even that wouldn't be forced.

You and all of us have to sell for what the market will pay.

Yeah I covered my thoughts on this one already, however its fine if you don't agree.

No one's going to be buying anything for what its worth when they can get it from someone else whose selling it for less. And in this discussion we're talking about a central marketplace that pools hundreds, if not thousands of different sales together for same or different items. Again, this happened way too often in New World and the market did not set the price, it was the guys selling everything for pennies that forced us to either stop selling, (change servers in order to make a sale) or reduce our prices significantly lower in order to undercut (but in reality we didn't care about undercutting it was all we could do to make a sale).

So again, I must respectfully disagree that we would not be forced to change our prices and take losses in order to sell. Because I saw it happen before, others experienced it and it was a common issue that occurred frequently.

SmellyUnlimited · January 2024

Vulkunne wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

To me that's not a healthy market when I'm forced to lose money because someone else wants to basically give things away. You know I understand folks are different and have different opinions on things and that's fine but just don't stop other people from making money because someone else has a point to make.

How are you ever forced to lose money?

You would only have any pressure there if you were flipping, but even that wouldn't be forced.

You and all of us have to sell for what the market will pay.

Yeah I covered my thoughts on this one already, however its fine if you don't agree.

No one's going to be buying anything for what its worth when they can get it from someone else whose selling it for less. And in this discussion we're talking about a central marketplace that pools hundreds, if not thousands of different sales together for same or different items. Again, this happened way too often in New World and the market did not set the price, it was the guys selling everything for pennies that forced us to either stop selling, change servers in order to make a sale or reduce our prices significantly lower in order to undercut (but in reality we didn't care about undercutting it was all we could do to make a sale).

So again, I must respectfully disagree that we would not be forced to change our prices and take losses in order to sell. Because I saw it happen before, others experienced it and it was a common issue that occurred frequently.

Define “losses” exactly. Because what an auction house would likely do is ameliorate the excessive price gouges we’ve seen items across the board affected by. Maybe tempering alloy doesn’t “need” to be as expensive as it is. What I foresee an auction house actually doing is deflating the gold barons in this game that monetize the major trading guilds. Regulate the market with an auction house and you’ll likely hear about losing profits initially, but that’s only because the prices were outrageous before.

Vulkunne · January 2024

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

A central Auction House eliminates healthy competition. In other words, I'm no longer free to market my sales or my legitimate idea to make gold in-house, I am forced to lower my prices to a lower price which can be forced on everyone by another party manipulating the market.

Erm... (my emphasis in bold, yours preserved in bold italic)

Edit : To elaborate, you appear to be claiming predatory pricing would happen. Predatory pricing, in the real world, is rewarding behaviour where a market has high startup or capital / fixed costs because it causes competitors to make a loss that, eventually, they can't endure and have to leave the market. Eg running a factory below cost.

The premise that that would be an effective strategy in an MMO using an auction house is, er, questionable. If ex guilds wanted to do this, fine, maybe other sellers would be disgruntled, but what would be achieved? The moment they put the prices up again other sellers would come back because an MMO has effectively *no costs at all* except time spent farming something or other.

So, as a trading strategy, a guild doing this to drive people away would be completely and utterly pointless.

What you're actually describing is healthy price competition.

@Northwold

Thanks for your reply regarding the pricing component

So I would argue that in this scenario its not impossible to compete however there is no sport in having competition for the sake of competition. And when I look at the Trade Post and there's literal hundreds if not many times thousands of sellers all selling something for roughly the same really low price then no that's not right.

And thats what can happen you have someone buy up enough of a market to bring the price way down and then other individual, probably hard working sellers come along and no they can't compete with that as far as getting the price they would prefer for their sale. Just like the Iron Ore fiasco, yeah its cheap but no one wants to sell it because people will only buy it for the lowest price, aside from some random exception which does happen.

To me that's not a healthy market when I'm forced to lose money because someone else wants to basically give things away. You know I understand folks are different and have different opinions on things and that's fine but just don't stop other people from making money because someone else has a point to make.

@Vulkunne

Ok let's use real life as an example and then I'll mix in how it relates to the game and the difference between PC and console.

In real life I'm a collector of classic video games. Sobe are easy to get, so we are hard to get, and some are damn near impossible.tp get and only have X amount ever even made.

The easy to get ones usually are overly populated and no matter where you go in different shops they are all priced low to maybe just get a sale. Using a central AH yes easy to get items will always flood the market and be cheap. On console games right now some people know a stack of easy material is dirt cheap if they go to a random trader in the middle of no where, BUT if you don't know it's cheap you go to a main city location (easiest to get to usually) and they are jacked up so that person buys it not knowing any better and they paid maybe 2x the amount they could have if they only had a way of knowing. Now let's look at PC. You guys get the privilege of using an add on and it tells you hey this items costs on average is X amount. If you go to a vendor you are knowledgeable enough to know hey I'm getting screwed here. (Same with selling you learn market value of the item where console lacks that ability).

Now let's talk about hard items. They are priced higher than your common item because they are rarer to get. Prices may vary slightly but usually within the same ball park figure. Again on console sometimes you have a rare item listed for 1000 gold so some shark scoops it up and places the rare item up for maybe 12-100k depending on the item. Seller gets screwed because how were they supposed to know because for them to research takes a lot of time traveling between many towns and very long load screens to maybe find out they were right or wrong depending on the item. How is that different from PC? Again an add on (literally very similar to a central AH because it gives you items sold when and how much) is available to you. So yes you guys don't feel robbed in the slightest because you have the knowledge and power to check compared to console players.

Lastly the very rare items worth a lot of money. The motifs that are super rare drops as an example. Rinse and repeat the exact words I said in the last paragraph. Except this time it is a much much much wider scale maybe now your talking 300k+. Now what's worse on these very rare items is maybe someone isn't in a trading guild what do they do? I've seen some people just vendor them for pennies.

So now that goes back to the idea of a way to inform people going rates because pc players and people exploiting this market come in all the time and say it's working as intended. So if it's working as intended why do PC players even need to look at an addon? If it's working as intended why is there so much complaints from console players? If it's working as it's intended the talk of a central ah or a central hub in cities to track and locate items and make items a similar price wouldn't be asked for since launch of the game now would it? Legitimately people have said fine keep the traders but please for the love of God allow us to search items prices/locations so I at least know where to start looking and that is even a solid no to players (mainly PC players or it is legit someone taking advantage of this exact market). Like I have stated several times I have made billions off people who legitimately don't have an understanding..........

I along with others have been on the receiving end many times of looking at 200+ guilds for a motif wasting hours for it and have it be no where. Is our time on console not worth anything to people? Because with the stoke of a button and seconds on PC you have the ability to see it's not listed in one vendor according to your addon that should be a base function of the game.

I've had my share of winning and losing, but never asked a thing from ZOS or anyone else. Its like this, my friends and the guild I'm in realize we need each other but everyone doesn't understand this. And so some will make a way and others don't want to try. That's why I talk so much about collaboration and its no surprise to see this as a major obstacle for people who are like really angry about things. Again, not saying that about anyone here but in general a mod will not necessarily make you successful, in fact if everyone had the same information then we'd really be right back at square one. Again, the more people who get involved in an opportunity the less there is for everyone. The more people the worse things tend to get. ZOS can't change that. New World made it worse and put that arrogance on full display. The New World mods would even turn off trading between people sometimes.