If it's an Endless Archive, then why are there threads? Please get rid of them

Billium813 · November 2023

AlterBlika wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I think the Threads are there to keep players invested. If players truly had nothing stopping them from playing for as long as they felt like it, then players would feel burnout much quicker.

I don't know about burnout but I certainly don't want to redo hours of content just because I died a couple of times.

What content are you worried about doing over again? Picking Verses? Fighting more mob waves? Fighting random bosses? It's the same gameplay over and over in a loop, with incremental increases in difficulty. Other than for leaderboard credit, what's the value of going past Arc 4?

The only issue is the difficulty curve. It all flows back to that. Arcs 1-5 are so easy that it's boring for many players. They don't want to have to do that content over and over again because they died... Should they add "save progress" as a fix? Should they remove Threads? NO. Make a Vet mode that starts off harder. End of story.

AlterBlika · November 2023

Billium813 wrote: »

What content are you worried about doing over again? Picking Verses? Fighting more mob waves? Fighting random bosses? It's the same gameplay over and over in a loop, with incremental increases in difficulty. Other than for leaderboard credit, what's the value of going past Arc 4?

It is content for me.
What's the point of playing video games? For the fun of it obviously, and that's why go past the 4th arc. You see, I'd really like play EA until the moment where it's just impossible to go further. Just fighting a boss who hits for about 25k damage (tanky build), has mechanics, and about 10m health is fun for me, and EA is beyond that. I initially saw EA that way, but sadly it ended up having a silly thread rule which no other content has.

Billium813 · November 2023

AlterBlika wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

What content are you worried about doing over again? Picking Verses? Fighting more mob waves? Fighting random bosses? It's the same gameplay over and over in a loop, with incremental increases in difficulty. Other than for leaderboard credit, what's the value of going past Arc 4?

I'd really like play EA until the moment where it's just impossible to go further. Just fighting a boss who hits for about 25k damage (tanky build), has mechanics, and about 10m health is fun for me, and EA is beyond that.

Define "it's just impossible to go further". How can the game capture that in a way that is satisfying for you? If you're on Arc 3 and have died 3 times to a boss that you just can't beat (deals too much damage to you, has a one shot mechanic you can't figure out, has a burn time limit you can't beat). Why does that not mean "it's impossible for you to go further"?

See, I don't think we are getting to the heart of the real issue here... I think "get rid of Threads" and "add progression saves" are just bandages for the real issues...

MidniteOwl1913 · November 2023

Billium813 wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

What content are you worried about doing over again? Picking Verses? Fighting more mob waves? Fighting random bosses? It's the same gameplay over and over in a loop, with incremental increases in difficulty. Other than for leaderboard credit, what's the value of going past Arc 4?

I'd really like play EA until the moment where it's just impossible to go further. Just fighting a boss who hits for about 25k damage (tanky build), has mechanics, and about 10m health is fun for me, and EA is beyond that.

Define "it's just impossible to go further". How can the game capture that in a way that is satisfying for you? If you're on Arc 3 and have died 3 times to a boss that you just can't beat (deals too much damage to you, has a one shot mechanic you can't figure out, has a burn time limit you can't beat). Why does that not mean "it's impossible for you to go further"?

See, I don't think we are getting to the heart of the real issue here... I think "get rid of Threads" and "add progression saves" are just bandages for the real issues...

Well I have very limited contiguous play time. The lack of save points does make it impossible. Plus at this point, I'm just so sick of arc 1 (and the rewards are crap) that I don't think I'll be bothering with it anymore anyway.

The three threads are annoying and not very consistent in most content I can just keep trying until I get tired of it.

For me so far, EA has just been one big disappointment. But if they add save points I'll give it another try.

Erickson9610 · November 2023

I fear that if save points and infinite Threads were implemented, then at some point I'd resume a run on a much later Arc and repeatedly get one shot by everything without a warm up. At that point, it's a game about roll dodging everything, where one single tick of damage is enough to instantly kill me.

If you want to go far in the Endless Archive, you need a way to mitigate the damage taken. Skills like Magma Shell, which reduce your incoming damage to 3% of your Maximum Health, are the only way to survive these one shot ticks of damage. At a certain point, even the Damage Shields you stack aren't enough to protect you, and the Damage Taken Reduction as well as Armor don't do enough to reduce the incoming damage.

That, and there isn't "more game" after Arc 4's boss fight — nothing new is added, and the only benefits to going farther are to see the Arc number go up and to get more rewards from chests.

Now, I've played challenging content where the group gets to have infinite tries every time the group wipes — Hard Mode content in dungeons and trials is this way. Hard Mode content is usually run to award titles, Undaunted Keys, and other collectibles, but going past Arc 4 of the Endless Archive gives the challenge of running Hard Mode content with none of the special rewards for doing so.

In summary, why would I want to endlessly retry an encounter with one shot mechanics (which I need a very specific build to mitigate) if it ultimately doesn't do anything for me in the end? My time would be better spent running Hard Mode content to unlock rewards that I haven't yet unlocked, which would typically have more engaging gameplay than being endlessly light attacked to death.

Aetherderius · November 2023

IT goes on forever, WE do not

Joy_Division · November 2023

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It is scored content and needs a common parameter.

Pretty sure there are leaderboards for other arenas and such. Yet, there are not threads.

That is because the common parameter is a final boss. There is a common end to evaluate the runs based on something other than sheer endurance

Ph1p · November 2023

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Three threads mean there is a definite end, and it can be in Arc 1. So much for endless.

It’s “endless” the same way the food at an all-you-can-eat buffet is “unlimited”. You can eat as much as you are able, but if your stomach gives up on chicken wing number 42, don’t blame the restaurant that they misled you with the word “unlimited”…

TwiceBornStar · November 2023

Still! I'd rather have an Endless Archive than Endless Maintenance. Oh, wait..

Elyu · November 2023

Arizona_Steve wrote: »

I don't know... I think the leader board is a problem in and of itself. I will never be good enough to match the people that run veteran hard mode trials every day, nor will I be familiar with the mechanics of the trial bosses. Since it's only the top 100 that get any goodies from the Endless Archive, what incentive is there for me to run the content, knowing that I will never make that list. Probably the same people getting stuff week after week.

Dump the 3 lives and dump the leader board.

Think this has a good insight into the problem.

Leaderboards are meant to be; an extra reward for the people who do best. Thus incentivising people to 1: play the content, 2: improve at the content

But due to difficulty of content / drop rates of rewards / time commitment for the activity / RNG on buffs etc instead it is; those on the leaderboards get reward proportionate to the effort spent, everyone else gets less, and is therefore disincentivised even to play the content in the first place.

At least with MA/BRP/DSA/VH and all trials, they have the same mechanics each run, so you can learn in the time you have available, but with EA, depending on which bosses you have to fight + which visions you get the difficulty, and mechanics required vary WILDLY between runs, meaning only those with 'optimised' builds and stupid amounts of time spare can even think about placing on the leaderboards.

Edit: Also I think the mechanics of the rewards for leaderboards needs to change entirely too.
Perhaps remove the 100 limit entirely and just have scaling rewards. As it is, placing no. 100 on the leaderboards gets you the same reward as placing no.1 - why?
So why not remove the (arbitrary) 100 limit and just scale the rewards. Obviously much lower down the leaderboards (say 500th place) you shouldn't be getting say...perfected MA weapons, but the scaling principle still applies I think!

Stanx · November 2023

Just on the topic of leaderboards - the rewards are not exactly amazing.

I got a gold resto staff and 10 transmutes for placing 16th solo (for my class) on EA. The rewards aren't exclusive or overwhelmingly OP to the point of alienating those that don't place, IMO.