What is holding ESO back from being the GOAT MMO for YOU?

SerafinaWaterstar · November 2023

Crown crates & gems & the fact things are only available via that route (endeavours really don’t make access easier)
Worse than the plain crown store. At least there you could budget & work out if could afford it.

Pvp updates - used to love playing. Was a mixture of skill & luck but now you just have idiots in op sets bunnyhopping around being a pain. Sieging etc needs to be made FUN again.

jtm1018 · November 2023

The devs.

Just saying.

FayJolyn · November 2023

I voted other, because it's multiple things that i feel eso could improve itself with.

For me it's multiple things.
The lack of real exploration. Zones, while beautiful in aesthetically lack real exploration for me. I've been playing GW2 recently and I've been loving the jumping puzzles and secrets tunnels and mini puzzles scattered throughout the basegame zones. ESO in comparison feels somewhat copy paste in design, we know that there is gonna be a main city with 2/3 dailies that all have the same kind of objective. kills boss/in into delve. its all the same.

StorytellingI also wish for more mature storytelling. and deeper stories/ with darker themes handled with maturity and complexity. Stories that keep in mind that I have a memory. I feel companions especially are underutilized in this regard. Sharp-as-Night is a break out character for me and I'm still salty that his story got adjusted from pts. I feel he's a good candidate for extended character stories.

PVP i love pvp in games but eso pvp can never hold my attention for longer time. the lack of anything new is just sad really.
i love how accessible -50 pvp is but when you reach max level it's the other way around and pvp is very meta dependent with a high skill and gear requirement.

Dependance on the crownstore: everyone knows its out of balance and the prices are wack. release the oldest crate rewards into the game as earnable ingame rewards already. I'm not against crown store persé, but too many things are crownstore exclusive. outfit slots, character apprance change should be earnable with ingame funds too. the huge amount of crown store exclusive items also give the veteran long time player not much to work towards except earning gold to buy crowns. it drives the ingame inflation up also. The store needs to be rebalanced imo.it would create more goodwill from the playerbase I think.

lack of accessible way to learn support roles ingame. the game is very heavily focused on stirring players into dps roles, but tank or healer roles I feel don't gets so much attention. there is a too high dependance on outside sources to learn to support roles effectively. also play the way you want mentally is detrimental with so many underpowered sets in the game. the fact that high end players all wear the same stuff is telling. the meta is stale and boring.

TweFoju · November 2023

From a casual player perspective that have been playing since release.

PvP options are sad. I mean the Arena is really boring except Cyrodiil, because Faction vs Faction in an MMO will always be awesome.

But for PvE, i think it's still one of the top 2 MMO right now! From the quest, story telling and lore, it's just super good, sometimes i only login to just roam around and hang out at cities admiring other players mounts and outfits and reading chats while enjoying the BGM

UGotBenched91 · November 2023

Appearance is a big issue for me.

Armor styles clipping, floating armors, random hip armor that just looks strange and out of place.

Also, I wish races had more distinct flavors with appearances. Yes, they look very different but all wear armor the exact same way and move and act in the same manner. Lineage 2 did something I still haven’t seen in another MMO that I wish others would do. Different races wear armor styles differently but also they run and move different. Use different hand styles on weapons for combat, running style was different, they even stood differently. It added an extra touch of diversity and uniqueness to races.

duagloth · November 2023

All of the above

Jack-0 · November 2023

Performance - fps nosedives over time in trials until you have to restart the game, abilities not firing, bars not swapping, being stuck in combat, lag, odd disconnects, long loading times, dungeon finder taking forever to find a group when you’re queued as a tank and healer and just need 2 dds
Failure to address bugs (how long did we endure block bug??? That was completely unacceptable)
Nerfs to the top-performing classes instead of buffs to the under-performing ones
Lack of challenge (though EA is a huge step in the right direction here)
Rubbish in-game rewards, aggressive if not predatory monetisation
Lack of more risk vs reward structures (IC is a great idea, more engaging pvpve systems like this, please)
Poor decision making, presumably from the board/execs who consider it’s fine to just scrape by with ‘good enough’ so long as the game still makes them money
Courting new players and undervaluing existing players
Missing obvious quality of life improvements, for example being able to select all on the deconstruction interface, toggle off other people’s pets from your view, toggles for old or new jabs animation and the grim focus thing that really upsets nightblades right now
Stupidly low limits on the number of items allowed in housing, and only being able to store a few items in containers in your house. If I make a crate, and put it in a house, I should be able to put items inside it for storage
Baffling design decisions (e.g. the most goddawful implementation of account wide achievements)
Lack of tutorials to teach people how to play
Lack of official wiki that players could refer to e.g. to look up a description of a specific boss ability and understand whether it counts as a projectile, what damage type it is, what cp might mitigate it etc
Stupid guild trader system instead of auction house
Bad comms and over-moderation

—————————————————

The greatest mmo of all time is Ultima Online, though admittedly it peaked by the mid-00s and is now the doddery old grandad snoozing in his rocking chair in the mmo family. WoW was fun but just too Blizzard for my tastes long term, Guild Wars was too brown and beige after the char and I never bothered with GW2.

I have played ESO since beta, but now I am only here until something better comes along, at which point I hope all my remaining friends will agree to jump ship. ESO would need to address A LOT of issues to forestall this when a new contender arrives on scene.

DreamyLu · November 2023

ESO is for me a "side" game, that I use to chill solo, at snail speed as far as possible, without any big objectives and pressure regarding achievements, and I fully enjoying that. For this limited use of the content, I do love ESO.

Now the game can't become more than that to me, due to a mix of several things (therefore I voted "other"), main ones being (purely a matter of personal taste):
- I don't like the combat system.
- I regret the limited variety of the content (no underwater content, no flying content, no mount content, no jumping content, and so on...).
- I don't enjoy much the armors/costumes/dyes content, that is an important point to me in games generally.
- I'm annoyed that I need to manage addons for a - to me - suitable user interface, especially for trading.

There are other peanuts annoying me on a daily basis, that would add to the main points above, like for example the followers issue, still not solved because the radius of effect of the "hiding followers" feature is too short and doesn't apply to all services (try banking in Vulkhel building for example, with pets even mixing with tables of the bankers....). However, I can cope with those (every games have such) and they're therefore not factors that can keep me away from the game, so no need to list those.

I repeat again: this is a matter of personal preferences and taste, so please nobody feel offended by what I say here.

Elsonso · November 2023

Jack-0 wrote: »

I have played ESO since beta, but now I am only here until something better comes along, at which point I hope all my remaining friends will agree to jump ship. ESO would need to address A LOT of issues to forestall this when a new contender arrives on scene.

People have been saying this for years, though. A lot of MMOs have come along, and the only one that even got close IMHO is New World. Others have said Final Fantasy, but not my type of game.

At some point, I have to wonder whether anyone is actually capable of making a GOAT. The industry seems to be in a bit of a downsizing mode, right now, and that does not bode well for games of that caliber.

Carlos93 · November 2023

The problem of not improving the current configuration of the Tamriel map.
If a configuration is not implemented that allows more new areas to be added to the cultures of Tamriel, with each new release there will be less map to allow new content to be developed in the future.
Bosmer and Breton culture is a reflection of this problem.

The map of Tamriel can never be filled, because most of the story is told on that continent.
New areas always have to be available for future expansions.

The flaws in the map have never been solved and an example of this is the Eastmarch area, which prevents the development of a Redoran chapter in the future.

Another problem is the disorder of the maps.
Players have to do a thorough search to find the map they want to go to.
This problem would be solved if they implemented a label system to classify maps based on the area to which they belong.

Skyrim = Eastmarch, The Rift, etc.

Adernath · November 2023

Two things:

1) No PvP balance and no visible incentive to improve the PvP experience (for example: Imperial City).

2) We need some more epic story telling with a higher fantasy aspect in it. The stories of the individual maps are not bad, but they hardly burn into my mind if I compare it to the stories in Northend-WoW, for example, or the Ulduar experience as it came out. The world is also not so colourful in my opinion. Just take a look at Outland in WoW... its a whole other level.

Jack-0 · November 2023

Elsonso wrote: »

Jack-0 wrote: »

I have played ESO since beta, but now I am only here until something better comes along, at which point I hope all my remaining friends will agree to jump ship. ESO would need to address A LOT of issues to forestall this when a new contender arrives on scene.

People have been saying this for years, though. A lot of MMOs have come along, and the only one that even got close IMHO is New World. Others have said Final Fantasy, but not my type of game.

At some point, I have to wonder whether anyone is actually capable of making a GOAT. The industry seems to be in a bit of a downsizing mode, right now, and that does not bode well for games of that caliber.

Oh I agree with you there, I wonder the same but hope that something like AoC will shake up the mmo industry. I love some of the single player Final Fantasies, but the mmo one is truly awful, I couldn’t get past the dreadful camera controls or the super outdated looking user interface. New World didn’t even register on my radar, and by all accounts it sounds like I dodged a bullet there!

I think, in my ideal world, Richard Garriott would form up a handpicked dream team of mmo devs from UO, EQ, WoW, FF and ESO and make my dream mmo…perhaps with some expertise from From Software as well.

KalevaLaine · November 2023

For me it is the best, but I'm annoyed of permanent buffs and nerfs and changing meta sets.

Destai · November 2023

After thinking about it more, I realized quite a few things hold it back. Monetization is the big one for me but there is more holding it back.

Identity. Like others have said, the game was marketed as a pvp game initially. And I think if it had been successful and better supported, the factions would have become zeitgeists like the alliance/horde thing from wow. The game has always had an ambiguous identity that didn’t get resolved until One Tamriel. And even still, they’re understandably casting a wide net to attract Skyrim fans, raiders, MMO veterans, and casual gamers. That’s a lot of different tastes to accommodate. TBF, I believe they do a good job mostly, but the wider gaming media doesn’t really seem to care.

New player experience. I get the feeling they struggle with retention. Rewards aside, I think a lot of it is how poorly the game teaches its mechanics. So many of my friends who have tried ESO say they struggle with resources and build making. Getting out of that slump isn’t something some people care to do, especially if they’re not incentivized to do so. Additionally, the game dumps content on you, often with no explanation. The questing experience had recently received some much needed love, but the players scared away probably won’t be open to trying again.

Combat and controls. So many core systems aren’t visibly communicated. First and foremost, the GCD. And it’s way too easy to see your skills trip over each other. There’s an unacceptable level of combat bugs, especially for a game of this age. Just today my character was stuck heavy attacking out of the blue. Skills stop responding intermittently quite often. Then there’s little stuff like desyncs that impact basic actions like looting. There's stuck in combat bugs too. I live with this all because I love the game, but others won’t.

Too frequent changes. I think they’re finally slowing down, but there were too many years with too many changes. A lot of people were burnt out and the final straw was U35 for many. People want to be confident that their progression is going to remain valid once they get there. The game’s frequent changes challenge that confidence and no community involvement happened to support it.

Company image. For all the marketing they do, it never seems to catch the eye of major gaming media. The game is financially successful, the game is fun to play. But, it feels overlooked. I don’t think it ever recovered from the initial impressions of people like Angry Joe and other reviewers. In part, because the criticisms had some merit and they never tried to correct them. There’s been a long history of lacking communication and fiascos.

At the end of the day, I love the game and the IP, but I can see why it isn’t the GOAT. But, I don’t need it to be.

Toxic_Hemlock · November 2023

For ME, seeing as you asked, it is the fight mechanics. Many of the higher end mechanics in the game are a one shot deal, if you "miss your mark" you are dead. Red circles can be forgiving in some cases and deadly in others thus don't actually indicate the degree of danger. If you try to avoid all red circles many times you will have nowhere to stand, and missing a major mechanic becomes a real possibility with all the innocuous red circles/lines that WILL distract you.

The mounts lately have gotten a bit to flashy for my likes, but fortunately the flashier ones are expensive and are not extremely common.

The store is what it is, they need to keep the lights on after all, and as I don't see many eyesore, over the top characters, I'm fine with it too.

Other than that the quests are well done and are voice acted so you get no complaint on them from me here.

With the combat confusions I give it an 5 out of 10. Without them a solid 9.

Rowjoh · November 2023

Lets have it right. ESO is a very easy game and this has held it back big time, as so much content has been dumbed down over the years in order to cater to the casual gamer - only a small proportion of challenging 'adult' content remains.

Endless Archive surprisingly seems to have been created for the hardcore crowd, yet unsurprising has generated widespread criticism for being way too difficult!

SilverBride · November 2023

Rowjoh wrote: »

Lets have it right. ESO is a very easy game and this has held it back big time, as so much content has been dumbed down over the years in order to cater to the casual gamer - only a small proportion of challenging 'adult' content remains.

ESO was a lot more difficult at launch and it was failing because of it. If they hadn't adjusted the difficulty there wouldn't be a game to discuss today.

Rowjoh wrote: »

Endless Archive surprisingly seems to have been created for the hardcore crowd, yet unsurprising has generated widespread criticism for being way too difficult!

The Endless Archive was not created for the hardcore crowd. It was created for everyone which is why the difficulty increases as the player progresses and doesn't just immediately start at the higher difficulties.

And yes there is criticism about it being too difficult because of the first few Arc's final boss being way more difficult than the rest of the Arc.

SandandStars · November 2023

1 Lack of class & gear balance in PvP

2 Lack of commitment to basic performance issues in PvP

AzuraFan · November 2023

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Guild Wars or Dragon's Dogma with multiple allied NPCs.

I loved Guild Wars because you could fill your party with NPCs that were as good as players (but not overpowered). I completed every zone in hard mode with just me and NPCs.

I was really excited when ESO announced companions, until I tried them out and discovered that they're nothing like Guild Wars NPCs. Ironically, they're pretty useless in the places where they're needed the most because they don't come anywhere near to matching what a player can do. Not even close. And you're limited to using only one at a time, even when doing content designed for 4 or more players.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · November 2023

To me it's several things not just one big one. Monetisation with lacking quality control and little style consistency. Less content in chapters and dlcs but still the same price as before, and other things.

Although a big thing that speaks to me is the writing. ESO had some issues with lore and writing in base game, but then with following it got a lot better. A lot of great things were added to the franchise, until it didn't. Instead it went downhill. To me it feels like there's little love and passion for Elder Scrolls lore any more, and it's all about nostalgia or sparkles with shiny things for new players. It feels like there's little creativity and bravery to go weird and be Elder Scrolls, instead a lot feels very...generic and bland. Then we have the infamous quest writing with the Vestige being a walking moron who can't remember what they did a second ago. Every year I desperately hope it will change, but I'm still waiting.

Rockett · November 2023

I'm a player that drops in when they see an older expansion upgrade selling for stupidly cheap It's nice to experience the story telling, doing a few dungeons and a few battlegrounds but I never linger very long. I'd put it down to 2 reasons mainly inventory management being my main issue and second to that not super liking the games combat but as the game is right now it's a back burner MMORPG when I want to experience some elder scrolls. Looking forward to ES6 whenever that comes.

TaSheen · November 2023

AzuraFan wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Guild Wars or Dragon's Dogma with multiple allied NPCs.

I loved Guild Wars because you could fill your party with NPCs that were as good as players (but not overpowered). I completed every zone in hard mode with just me and NPCs.

I was really excited when ESO announced companions, until I tried them out and discovered that they're nothing like Guild Wars NPCs. Ironically, they're pretty useless in the places where they're needed the most because they don't come anywhere near to matching what a player can do. Not even close. And you're limited to using only one at a time, even when doing content designed for 4 or more players.

It's really weird that you mentioned that. Daughter just got off the WoW pts (or whatever it's called there) and the upcoming patch has NPCs you can use to fill out a full group for instances/dungeons. I'm not going to quote the whole thing but she was VERY impressed - said it was just like running with real people....

So maybe eventually the companion thing might get expanded, I don't know. I still don't like sidekicks so it won't matter to me!

Rowjoh · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO was a lot more difficult at launch and it was failing because of it. If they hadn't adjusted the difficulty there wouldn't be a game to discuss today.

The Endless Archive was not created for the hardcore crowd. It was created for everyone which is why the difficulty increases as the player progresses and doesn't just immediately start at the higher difficulties.

And yes there is criticism about it being too difficult because of the first few Arc's final boss being way more difficult than the rest of the Arc.

Not disputing difficulty issue at launch, but that's irrelevant. The fact is that ESO has been dumbed down beyond belief to essentially cater to casual gamers. Not saying there's anything wrong with that - it's the market, and ZoS have taken full advantage by doing so.

And your reasoning on Endless Archive is seriously flawed because the average casual gamer (the majority of players) can't get far enough into it to reap the best rewards because its too difficult for them, hence the multiple threads and complaints on difficulty. That makes it way more suited to hardcore gamers than casuals in anyone's book.

Tannus15 · November 2023

it's the focus on the shop.

i honestly don't care about the shop at all. put whatever you want, as much as you like in it.
but they haven't put any of it in the game.

reward players for playing the game. it's not rocket science.

make crown exclusive houses purchasable for gold after 1 or 2 years.
put the arms cosmetic sets as drops in the dungeon they are designed after. maybe make it a reward once you have 100% set collection or something.

put unique mounts in every zone. why can't i get a camel from alki'r desert?

the game is chock full of cool things that mean nothing other than "i spent cash"
i'm supremely unimpressed by that flashy mount i see because i know the only way to get it is endeavours or crates. like, i don't care. it doesn't mean anything.
well done on spending money i guess.

for crying out loud it's not hard to understand or implement. put a mount in every zone from the already existing hundreds of mounts in the game and lock it behind the zone pathfinder achievement. make it 100k gold.

the only reason I can think that they haven't done this is because people might be less likely to spend money in the store if they could get things from playing the game.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

SilverBride · November 2023

Rowjoh wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO was a lot more difficult at launch and it was failing because of it. If they hadn't adjusted the difficulty there wouldn't be a game to discuss today.

The Endless Archive was not created for the hardcore crowd. It was created for everyone which is why the difficulty increases as the player progresses and doesn't just immediately start at the higher difficulties.

And yes there is criticism about it being too difficult because of the first few Arc's final boss being way more difficult than the rest of the Arc.

Not disputing difficulty issue at launch, but that's irrelevant. The fact is that ESO has been dumbed down beyond belief to essentially cater to casual gamers. Not saying there's anything wrong with that - it's the market, and ZoS have taken full advantage by doing so.

And your reasoning on Endless Archive is seriously flawed because the average casual gamer (the majority of players) can't get far enough into it to reap the best rewards because its too difficult for them, hence the multiple threads and complaints on difficulty. That makes it way more suited to hardcore gamers than casuals in anyone's book.

ESO has not been "dumbed down". It was brought to a level that most players find reasonble and enjoyable. Struggling to do everything is not something most players want.

As far as The Endless Archive, I have not once mentioned "the best rewards". I don't even know what "the best rewards" would be. I just want a few furnishings, which I can easly earn the Archival Fortunes for by just doing Arc 1 and not even having to beat Tho'at.

But mostly I want to be able to enjoy more than just Arc 1 up to but not past that boss.

Toxic_Hemlock · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO was a lot more difficult at launch and it was failing because of it. If they hadn't adjusted the difficulty there wouldn't be a game to discuss today.

The Endless Archive was not created for the hardcore crowd. It was created for everyone which is why the difficulty increases as the player progresses and doesn't just immediately start at the higher difficulties.

And yes there is criticism about it being too difficult because of the first few Arc's final boss being way more difficult than the rest of the Arc.

Not disputing difficulty issue at launch, but that's irrelevant. The fact is that ESO has been dumbed down beyond belief to essentially cater to casual gamers. Not saying there's anything wrong with that - it's the market, and ZoS have taken full advantage by doing so.

And your reasoning on Endless Archive is seriously flawed because the average casual gamer (the majority of players) can't get far enough into it to reap the best rewards because its too difficult for them, hence the multiple threads and complaints on difficulty. That makes it way more suited to hardcore gamers than casuals in anyone's book.

ESO has not been "dumbed down". It was brought to a level that most players find reasonble and enjoyable. Struggling to do everything is not something most players want.

As far as The Endless Archive, I have not once mentioned "the best rewards". I don't even know what "the best rewards" would be. I just want a few furnishings, which I can easly earn the Archival Fortunes for by just doing Arc 1 and not even having to beat Tho'at.

But mostly I want to be able to enjoy more than just Arc 1 up to but not past that boss.

I agree with this assessment, I have never mentioned rewards either as I don't really care about them as much as having a good, fun time. IMO if you are obsessed with rewards then maybe they need to make the activity be much more fun for you.

I would just like to get past the 4th boss, and maybe even the final one of ARC bloody 1 for my daily. And yes I have tried various builds/sets etc, watched the bosses vid, although 68 different bosses/mechanics is insane to memorize. I always seem to stand somewhere I am not supposed to and die even as a tank. But It is beginning to look like I will just leave the game to the younger crowd in January when my sub runs out. No regrets as I have already done everything I found to be fun in ESO.

Sorry for the thread derailment BTW.

Edit: still old

Eiagra · November 2023

Content glut making it feel like I won't ever be able to "catch up."

FOMO practices.

General burnout as a result of this just feeling more like work than fun.

Tannus15 · November 2023

Eiagra wrote: »

Content glut making it feel like I won't ever be able to "catch up."

FOMO practices.

General burnout as a result of this just feeling more like work than fun.

omg the constant events.
reminds me of the incredibles

"if every day is special, no day is"

Pelanora · November 2023

Tannus15 wrote: »

it's the focus on the shop.

i honestly don't care about the shop at all. put whatever you want, as much as you like in it.
but they haven't put any of it in the game.

reward players for playing the game. it's not rocket science.

make crown exclusive houses purchasable for gold after 1 or 2 years.
put the arms cosmetic sets as drops in the dungeon they are designed after. maybe make it a reward once you have 100% set collection or something.

put unique mounts in every zone. why can't i get a camel from alki'r desert?

the game is chock full of cool things that mean nothing other than "i spent cash"
i'm supremely unimpressed by that flashy mount i see because i know the only way to get it is endeavours or crates. like, i don't care. it doesn't mean anything.
well done on spending money i guess.

for crying out loud it's not hard to understand or implement. put a mount in every zone from the already existing hundreds of mounts in the game and lock it behind the zone pathfinder achievement. make it 100k gold.

the only reason I can think that they haven't done this is because people might be less likely to spend money in the store if they could get things from playing the game.

[snip]

This is just it, really, just perfect advice. Sure, sell it, for those who just want it, and for those who want to earn it, they can, and make it tricksy and worthwhile.

In mmos/games generally, grind including slim chance rnd exists to ensure people stay subbed, and what better way to also support that, than make everything achieveable for those who sub, and for those who don't, well they can buy it if they want. Everyone wins. Sorta. But closer to winning than now.....

[edited to remove quote]

AzuraFan · November 2023

TaSheen wrote: »

It's really weird that you mentioned that. Daughter just got off the WoW pts (or whatever it's called there) and the upcoming patch has NPCs you can use to fill out a full group for instances/dungeons. I'm not going to quote the whole thing but she was VERY impressed - said it was just like running with real people....

So maybe eventually the companion thing might get expanded, I don't know. I still don't like sidekicks so it won't matter to me!

Hopefully the WoW NPCs will be more useful than ESO's.

I don't see companions as sidekicks. I see them as a way to complete group content solo, or at least that's the way I was hoping to use them. I don't use companions in single-player games. I never take Lydia (or anyone else) in Skyrim, etc., because there's no group content (thank goodness!). For me, they're a way to fill group slots. Guild Wars' NPCs didn't have personalities or anything. But they could fight and survive on par with an average player, unlike Mirri, Bastian, and company.