Please fix Endless Archive difficulty

Jammy420 · November 2023

"Lets make an endless dungeon that gets harder and harder!"

This forum : " Why isnt it easy, and why cant we beat it!?"

Like, just lol.

Jammy420 · November 2023

Tandor wrote: »

Paralyse wrote: »

I don't know if there is data yet on "how" people experience EA -- are the duo groups mostly friends, or guildmates, or random strangers? -- but splitting EA would definitely risk diluting the player pool.

I take the opposite view.

At present, the player pool is diluted by those who ere either not attracted to EA or can't progress through, let alone beyond, Arc 1, those players being turned off EA entirely.

Introduce a lower difficulty mode and more players will be attracted to EA and more of them will stay longer. Some may even develop to a point where they switch to the harder mode.

I do not see how they could really make the first arch any easier. The final boss just takes a tiny bit of practice, and no real build what so ever. The final bosses in the archs, regardless of which, should be at least a tiny bit challenging. If everything is always a walk in the park, what is the point?

Sordidfairytale · November 2023

At the very least the Class reward items should be purple, not blue.

Vrelanier · November 2023

I don't think EA likes melee players that much, unless they're very tanky. So far my best solo setup has been as a tank with ranged companion (made it to 2nd arc), and best duo set up has been as a tank with a ranged friend (made it to 3rd Thoat). I'm a casual+, but my friend plays like a pro, so he basically carried us there.

They could make it so that the threads tie you to the leaderboards, rather than the archives. Losing the last thread would give you a placement in the leaderboards, but in game it would let you continue beating your head against the wall with trial bosses and Thoat. If you then continue to arc 19 or whatever, you could still get loot, and chances at the unknowns for the achievements and the permanent buffs, but you wouldn't get a higher score in the leaderboards on that run anymore.

I learn by making mistakes, and I find it really frustrating to get to try Thoat only a couple of times in a row. By the time I get there again, I've already forgotten what I died to last time, and I never get into the rhythm of the fight. Not to mention wanting to try something new with builds, and having to go through all the arcs and cycles again.

fred4 · November 2023

Vrelanier wrote: »

I don't think EA likes melee players that much, unless they're very tanky.

This is probably true, but when you look at damage in Combat Metrics past the first arc, a significant portion (as much as half) comes from visions and verses. In other words, going on a tanky DD build is less of a damage loss than in "normal" content, because the Archive supplies a lot of damage itself. My personal way of achieving tankiness is with sets like Hexos Ward or Aetherial Ascension, or both, in light or medium armor. A ranged Arcanist arguably rules, but I've also run those sets on magplar. With such sets and resistance skills you can build to be near the resistance cap and have shields, while still wearing light or medium armor and benefitting from the weapon damage / crit / penetration those armor types give.

I've killed the flame Marauder on arc 2 (solo) both by kiting with Arcanist and by "tanking" with a Brawler build. Those were both slow attrition type fights with a bunch of running involved (more so on Arcanist), but it was doable. Regadless of build I've used thus far, melee magplar, ranged stam arcanist, melee (Brawler) stamsorc, I've gotten to the middle or end of arc 3 solo. The possibly best way to get further is with a (DK) tank and ranged (Arcanist) duo, like you say and which many people seem to be going for, judging by current leaderboards and my own experience (got to arc 6). If you want to practice and see beyond what you can solo, I'd do that. Some bosses have additional mechanics in the later arcs, but by the end of Arc 4 you've basically seen all the Thoat has to offer. The main incentive to keep going further is for leaderboards and higher Archival Fortune payouts.

There may be some creative ways of dealing with difficulty spikes, such as Marauders. Going into Brawler spam mode on one of your bars may be part of it, though that typically requires higher sustain than you otherwise need. One of the most creative ways may be to run a custom tank build for Marauder fights, while playing werewolf otherwise. Werewolf definitely works, as I've played with one.

The Thoat fights are a different kettle of fish, since you have to stay on top of Seeking Spheres in particular by destroying or interrupting the small slime shards. Arcanist shines at destroying them in cleave. Templar has an AOE interrupt in Explosive Charge. Crushing Shock may work. The Deadland's Demolisher set may be an option. Unfortunately there are few places where low DPS, but also being melee or low mobility, makes your life very difficult or where, later on, it's an outright DPS race.

I learn by making mistakes, and I find it really frustrating to get to try Thoat only a couple of times in a row. By the time I get there again, I've already forgotten what I died to last time, and I never get into the rhythm of the fight. Not to mention wanting to try something new with builds, and having to go through all the arcs and cycles again.

Yeah, I get you. I felt the same way about the last vMA boss, years ago, because that fight has several phases. On the other hand you can't beat the Archive. You can only hope to see more and get better rewards, but you see a lot in even the first arc. The later ones scale up with more mobs, more boss adds, some more mechanics. It's pretty decent, but there's probably less of a mystery about the later arcs than you would think. It's only the difficulty that keeps you engaged. It's arguably for the people who seek that.

Lugaldu · November 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

"Lets make an endless dungeon that gets harder and harder!"

This forum : " Why isnt it easy, and why cant we beat it!?"

Like, just lol.

When something becomes "harder and harder" it also means that it is easy at the beginning. But that's not even the case in EA at the moment in arc 1 - and that clearly refers to trial bosses and mechanics that pin you to the ground until you're dead, that kill you with one-shot with 100.000 damage, etc. I mean, it's even absurd that I encountered 10 Ogrims yesterday in 1.1.1... They don't affect me, but if a new player comes in here with a fresh character, then he probably won't even survive the first "trash mob". The difficulty descent in EA is completely unbalanced.

And I still find it fascinating that people here in the thread argue that ZOS "never announced that EA should be for all players". Accessible to everyone, yes, but not playable to everyone. So it's like the good old saying that you stand in front of the window of the candy store and can only look at everything, but you'll never get anything from it.
And I also can't understand why those people who rush through the first arcs without any problems because they're constantly doing trials and vet content are resistant to the idea that there should be different difficulty levels for the EA too. The same discussion happened before with the Bastion Nymic - some people seem to be happy when there are things that only they can do with ease. Nothing would be taken away from anyone if the EA had different difficulty levels, just like every dungeon, but it would allow a much larger number of players to participate in a highly announced new activity that at the moment only seems to be an exclusive treat for a handful of players.

Jaraal · November 2023

fred4 wrote: »

Vrelanier wrote: »

I don't think EA likes melee players that much, unless they're very tanky.

This is probably true, but when you look at damage in Combat Metrics past the first arc, a significant portion (as much as half) comes from visions and verses. In other words, going on a tanky DD build is less of a damage loss than in "normal" content, because the Archive supplies a lot of damage itself. My personal way of achieving tankiness is with sets like Hexos Ward or Aetherial Ascension, or both, in light or medium armor. A ranged Arcanist arguably rules, but I've also run those sets on magplar. With such sets and resistance skills you can build to be near the resistance cap and have shields, while still wearing light or medium armor and benefitting from the weapon damage / crit / penetration those armor types give.

I've killed the flame Marauder on arc 2 (solo) both by kiting with Arcanist and by "tanking" with a Brawler build. Those were both slow attrition type fights with a bunch of running involved (more so on Arcanist), but it was doable. Regadless of build I've used thus far, melee magplar, ranged stam arcanist, melee (Brawler) stamsorc, I've gotten to the middle or end of arc 3 solo. The possibly best way to get further is with a (DK) tank and ranged (Arcanist) duo, like you say and which many people seem to be going for, judging by current leaderboards and my own experience (got to arc 6). If you want to practice and see beyond what you can solo, I'd do that. Some bosses have additional mechanics in the later arcs, but by the end of Arc 4 you've basically seen all the Thoat has to offer. The main incentive to keep going further is for leaderboards and higher Archival Fortune payouts.

There may be some creative ways of dealing with difficulty spikes, such as Marauders. Going into Brawler spam mode on one of your bars may be part of it, though that typically requires higher sustain than you otherwise need. One of the most creative ways may be to run a custom tank build for Marauder fights, while playing werewolf otherwise. Werewolf definitely works, as I've played with one.

^^^ Some good advice.

I've found the best success with a combination of shields and AOE damage. If you get lucky and pull the damage shield verses and visions, you can be pretty hard to kill.

My companions do ranged AOE damage, and I have them all drop the Crimson Font altar for a continuous, 28 meter heal - damage and lifetap, which gives you a 50% health heal synergy to use when needed. I also make them cast Skeletal Aegis to protect themselves, plus it gives me a synergy that grants a damage shield for 50% of my max health (40k = 20k shield).

Something else I recommend: using the Vengeance Leech 3 pc. set on the trash, which restores a large amount of health, magicka, and stamina every time a mob dies. And when I get to the bosses, I swap that out for the 3 pc. Endurance set, which gives more health and a big chunk of health regen, which helps passively top you off while you're running around avoiding mechanics.

Of course, this is for those of us who aren't top tier players, and are just looking to survive and make slow, but steady progress. The pros just burn everything down and dodge/block everything... but we can always improve at our own pace. Better to take your time to get better than to just give up right away.

Elsonso · November 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

"Lets make an endless dungeon that gets harder and harder!"

This forum : " Why isnt it easy, and why cant we beat it!?"

There is the other side of the forum which asks why they have face roll through the easy parts every time until they get to the hard part.

Maybe they balanced it right in that no one likes it.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Paralyse wrote: »

I don't know if there is data yet on "how" people experience EA -- are the duo groups mostly friends, or guildmates, or random strangers? -- but splitting EA would definitely risk diluting the player pool.

I take the opposite view.

At present, the player pool is diluted by those who ere either not attracted to EA or can't progress through, let alone beyond, Arc 1, those players being turned off EA entirely.

Introduce a lower difficulty mode and more players will be attracted to EA and more of them will stay longer. Some may even develop to a point where they switch to the harder mode.

I do not see how they could really make the first arch any easier. The final boss just takes a tiny bit of practice, and no real build what so ever. The final bosses in the archs, regardless of which, should be at least a tiny bit challenging. If everything is always a walk in the park, what is the point?

I think that the point is that the final boss in the first Arc is not "a tiny bit challenging". Keeping things light, my complaint is that it is actually like spending 30 minutes on the tiny tots speedway, then being tossed into a NASCAR race that you have to win to continue on.

I think they have more work to do there.

I am wondering whether the issue is that the first Arc probably should not use bosses with special or unusual mechanics. From player skill to not understanding mechanics, I am reading on the forum that people are failing. Not everyone is going to buckle down and "get good"... a fair number of them will see the impenetrable wall and just shrug and go back to whatever they were doing before.

When that happens, the opportunity is lost because they probably won't be back. They need to get close enough that they can see the finish line and feel like they can get there. Right now, when they get slammed with three deaths in rapid succession, the impression is "stop here", and if that isn't yet completing the first Arc, chances are they won't be able to do the daily and nothing will drive them to come back.

LouisaB75 · November 2023

Well, this below average player who has previously posted about having trouble with arc 1 has finally made it to arc 2.

I am pretty sure that I have bad RNG and several people in my guild seem to agree when I have told them the bosses I have pulled in comparison to their runs. The Serpent, the one with the pillars that didn't seem to work, Lady Belain (twice, though I did manage her on arc 1), amongst others I have never seen before. I also seem to be a magnet for dragons, having pulled four of them in about 10 runs (bearing in mind most of those runs I never made it past arc 1). Oh and RNG gave me a marauder (apparently the worst of them) in my first set of mobs in arc 2... because I am just that lucky. It was right after I had joked in guild chat that I would probably do exactly that.

The first time I got past Tho'at I fully admit that I was lucky. I got an unknown portal right before the boss so had two verses, one was rebirth and the other was the knowing eye that taunts. Verses and visions really do make a huge difference and the second time I got past her (doing the daily quest) I only had one verse but it was ideal for me since I am heavy on class skills and got the one that makes class skills deal extra damage.

Whether I get past the boss with verses that are less than ideal is another matter entirely.

I made it to arc 2 Tho'at solo but didn't make it past her.

I will keep plugging away at it until I get the mount, the pet and all the leads for the clothier station. (I got all the ToT deck fragments which was my other motivation for running this grind).

I did do my first run with another player yesterday and I can say that it does make a huge difference. I still died to the Serpent but because he is a better player than I am it wasn't a wipe. It does seem to be very much tailored to duo runs.

Lugaldu · November 2023

LouisaB75 wrote: »

I am pretty sure that I have bad RNG and several people in my guild seem to agree when I have told them the bosses I have pulled in comparison to their runs. The Serpent, the one with the pillars that didn't seem to work, Lady Belain (twice, though I did manage her on arc 1), amongst others I have never seen before. I also seem to be a magnet for dragons, having pulled four of them in about 10 runs (bearing in mind most of those runs I never made it past arc 1). Oh and RNG gave me a marauder (apparently the worst of them) in my first set of mobs in arc 2... because I am just that lucky. It was right after I had joked in guild chat that I would probably do exactly that.

You are not alone with that... looks like that for me every single run. First time I came to 2.1.1, marauder was the first thing greeting me.

Sarannah · November 2023

Did a few more runs, and ran into the random spawn marauder boss that three hit me(mauhogh?) once. Oh well.

Also got a few more unknowns: Gathering spirit essences, a boss, and chasing a tomeshell. Was fun, though chasing the tomeshell could use a much smaller arena, and a way to find him easier.

There also needs to be a clear indication we are about to enter the arc's final boss's room(maybe a different color portal). That way we can change gear/setup/companion to fight him, before we engage him. And as someone has mentioned in this thread, don't let companions be affected by his AOE's(maybe tone down the amount of aoe's he spawns as well).

Jaraal wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Note: Gear shouldn't degrade in the EA, it loses durability too fast.

I have the watcher merchant repair my gear after most rounds.

Thanks, but I manually repair with repair kits. It is just a mechanic that should not be in there. I want to focus on the archive's encounters, not on my degrading gear.

PS: I absolutely hate kiting mobs. So I hope this is entirely removed from the EA.

caperon · November 2023

[snip] I grabed my sorcerer, slaped an alkosh lightning staff on it (clearly bis) and completed arc 1. Nude with only a weapon:

I got fancy at the end and used alliance spell pots, i finished my trash pots.

Full arc 1 run (24 minutes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPPcSqzc8Rc

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Braffin · November 2023

Lugaldu wrote: »

LouisaB75 wrote: »

I am pretty sure that I have bad RNG and several people in my guild seem to agree when I have told them the bosses I have pulled in comparison to their runs. The Serpent, the one with the pillars that didn't seem to work, Lady Belain (twice, though I did manage her on arc 1), amongst others I have never seen before. I also seem to be a magnet for dragons, having pulled four of them in about 10 runs (bearing in mind most of those runs I never made it past arc 1). Oh and RNG gave me a marauder (apparently the worst of them) in my first set of mobs in arc 2... because I am just that lucky. It was right after I had joked in guild chat that I would probably do exactly that.

You are not alone with that... looks like that for me every single run. First time I came to 2.1.1, marauder was the first thing greeting me.

You managed to complete Arc 1 in less than a week and are still pretending nerfs would be necessary. Baffling.

Same as with nymics, same as with ToT: All the time some people (mostly the very same every single time)are only interested in the rewards, while despising the content.

This attitude is harmful to these players, the game itself and of course the community. That's the real problem here: The farming mentality some people developed out of FOMO. That's why they want to see every content watered down.

Lugaldu · November 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

LouisaB75 wrote: »

I am pretty sure that I have bad RNG and several people in my guild seem to agree when I have told them the bosses I have pulled in comparison to their runs. The Serpent, the one with the pillars that didn't seem to work, Lady Belain (twice, though I did manage her on arc 1), amongst others I have never seen before. I also seem to be a magnet for dragons, having pulled four of them in about 10 runs (bearing in mind most of those runs I never made it past arc 1). Oh and RNG gave me a marauder (apparently the worst of them) in my first set of mobs in arc 2... because I am just that lucky. It was right after I had joked in guild chat that I would probably do exactly that.

You are not alone with that... looks like that for me every single run. First time I came to 2.1.1, marauder was the first thing greeting me.

You managed to complete Arc 1 in less than a week and are still pretending nerfs would be necessary. Baffling.

Same as with nymics, same as with ToT: All the time some people (mostly the very same every single time)are only interested in the rewards, while despising the content.

This attitude is harmful to these players, the game itself and of course the community. That's the real problem here: The farming mentality some people developed out of FOMO. That's why they want to see every content watered down.

With all due respect, the rewards in a game like this are probably the main reason why someone runs through the same dungeon 100 times... Nobody will probably enter the EA (or BN) for the great background story or the exciting thrash mob fights - or the same fight against Thoat Replicanum over and over again.

Braffin · November 2023

Lugaldu wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

LouisaB75 wrote: »

I am pretty sure that I have bad RNG and several people in my guild seem to agree when I have told them the bosses I have pulled in comparison to their runs. The Serpent, the one with the pillars that didn't seem to work, Lady Belain (twice, though I did manage her on arc 1), amongst others I have never seen before. I also seem to be a magnet for dragons, having pulled four of them in about 10 runs (bearing in mind most of those runs I never made it past arc 1). Oh and RNG gave me a marauder (apparently the worst of them) in my first set of mobs in arc 2... because I am just that lucky. It was right after I had joked in guild chat that I would probably do exactly that.

You are not alone with that... looks like that for me every single run. First time I came to 2.1.1, marauder was the first thing greeting me.

You managed to complete Arc 1 in less than a week and are still pretending nerfs would be necessary. Baffling.

Same as with nymics, same as with ToT: All the time some people (mostly the very same every single time)are only interested in the rewards, while despising the content.

This attitude is harmful to these players, the game itself and of course the community. That's the real problem here: The farming mentality some people developed out of FOMO. That's why they want to see every content watered down.

With all due respect, the rewards in a game like this are probably the main reason why someone runs through the same dungeon 100 times... Nobody will probably enter the EA (or BN) for the great background story or the exciting thrash mob fights - or the same fight against Thoat Replicanum over and over again.

With all due respect, but not everyone is reward-driven. Most players are playing video games because they're interested in the content (can be everything from stories to interesting gameplay and combat mechanics).

I appreciate tho, that you're at least starting to be honest about your issues with EA (and most other parts of the game, as far as I remember).

As said before: It's all about farming rewards as fast as possible for sone around here, not about difficulty.

Inaya1 · November 2023

[snip]

Don't like difficults? Can't pass this? Then why did you go there? Maybe zos just can add a free Godslayer to your account?

Just an FYI. Almost the majority of the entire community left Teso. BECAUSE IT BECAME UNINTERESTING TO PLAY. The difficulty is too easy, [snip] Therefore, most of the community has left for other projects and is unlikely to return.

CAN'T PASS IT? - DON'T GO THERE. [snip] Arc 1 is as difficult as a fungal grotto 1 at normal. Zos gave you super builds for an arcanist with a god ray or a sorka with a ring and HA attacks. What's so difficult about pressing 2 buttons - left mouse button and HA attack?

[snip] And what will then encourage people to go there? What then will be the difference between veteran difficulty and normal? More currency or “perfect” versions of sets? - After this, I myself will completely leave this game. I just don’t see the point in it as an MMO anymore, because you can get everything without any pleasure.

BUT! And it’s true that the tower needs a little rebalancing. The increase in difficulty is too abrupt, as if at the very beginning a decrepit skeleton is beating you with a broom, and then at arc 3-4 a berserker barbarian comes with a bloody axe and winks sarcastically. It is necessary to make the transitions between arcs smoother, but only at the stages of the mirror knight (completion of the arch) and trashpacks. Intermediate bosses are done well, you don’t need to touch them

[edited for baiting]

NoticeMeArkay · November 2023

I love EA.

Wether I run it solo or with my friend, I'm having a blast. Collecting new lore books, taking in the scenery, meeting old foes with a repolished set of mechanics to adjust to the new found surroundings, the story about Tho'at and her spawn animation in general. How she starts trying to manipulate your runs during the last arc by spawning all sorts of evil on you and catching you by surprise.

I almost got all leads from EA done. My friend and I are drowning in Nekrom and Apocrypha furnishing plans. We've been looting so many finished furnishings, we started piling them up in my Kelesa'ruhn to get things ready for my arcanist characters home project. I just got a book with a 100% cooler spell animation then the event reward and the last lead for the apocryphal clothing station. I'm at 35k archive points at the moment. After both of us spent 10k on the speed buff, we're collecting the last necessary encounters with all side events to unlock the achievements for additional verses and visions to select from and to empower them along the way.

I'm having a blast.
My 200+ latency HA sorc buddy is having a blast.

We were even having a blast long before we knew that the first morph phase wrecks our set effects and requires relogging to fix things, so we duck-waddled through the later arcs nerfed to death and despite noticing the change in difficulty, we just took it as part of the increased difficulty as a whole and kept on having fun.

I don't think EA requires a nerf. I think a certain portion of this playerbase, most likely the same people that keep on posting their "Please Nerf XY" less than 24 hours after it's release, require a change of mind.

Anyways, me and my buddy are going back in later today, but first I gotta dig up my new clothing station. Thanks Mora!

Elsonso · November 2023

Inaya1 wrote: »

[snip]

ZOS does ZOS. If they look at what is happening with Endless Archive, and what they see shows that it is a too easy, they will make it harder. If they see something that is too hard, they will make it easier. They have said so, more than once. They have targets that they are trying to hit. They have said that, too.

During PTS they adjusted the curve, easier on the front side, harder on the back side. Turns out, they saw someone up at Arc 18, or something like that, and didn't want players to get that far that easily. They made it harder to get to that point.

ZOS is going to see what players are actually doing, and make adjustments. It will include all sorts of players, from strong group players and strong solo players, to weak group players and weak solo players.

Inaya1 wrote: »

Arc 1 is as difficult as a fungal grotto 1 at normal.

That really sort of depends on random bosses. The mechanics for Fungal Grotto 1 are pretty simple, and that is really what all this seems to boil down to. Chances are good that an Archive run will pull a DLC boss, which may have the HP of the Dreugh King, but will have more challenging mechanics than just "stay out of stupid".

Of course, if you DO get Kra’gh, then yeah, it will be a lot more like Fungal Grotto.

[edited to remove quote]

DP99 · November 2023

I finished Arc 1 on day 1 with Azandar as my companion as a healer, with my DW/Bow Bosmer Nightblade, who is pretty much a stamina melee character ... and I died three times, but was able to get an extra life, so it would have been over if it wasn't for the bonus chance.

That said, one of my deaths was against this vampire woman, whom I had never encountered before that I can recall, so maybe she was from a previous dungeon that I had never done, and she was the most challenging thing I had encountered before the final boss, but overall wasn't too hard to figure out the mechanics to persevere and finish off. The only reason that I really died was because I messed up and fell off of the edge of the arena, and not because of any loss of health from her attacks or those of her adds. I was able to keep my health up and fight back and dodge everything just fine, I just needed to be sure to not fall off the edge again!

I died twice on the final boss, until I figured out the mechanics and was able to get past her without too much difficulty after that.

I am by no means any kind of elitist, and I don't have any kind of special build nor am I using any kind of top tier meta gear sets or anything. I just have best possible gold level gear from the base game that I can for my character, and I knew how to effectively use my attacks and the bonuses that the archive gives you after every round.

After completing Arc 1 however, and trying Arc 2 with just one life left, I honestly didn't make it probably five minutes into the first room before getting killed and it was game over. So, yeah, the difficulty did seem to ramp up quite a bit just on the second level. I have yet to try again with a full set of lives, and not sure if I ever will. It's fun, but the whole concept of having a plot in a dungeon that "doesn't end," which by that infers that the story can never actually get completed, just seems pointless to me, so why would I waste my time helping "research" the problem and fighting a foe that isn't going to ever really get defeated? That's what I get out of it, it's an exercise in futility, and I really don't care to participate in that.

ZOS_Icy · November 2023

Greetings,

We have removed some insulting back and forth that was disruptive. Please ensure you are treating others with respect on the forums even when they have views that differ from your own.

Thank you for your understanding.

evan302 · November 2023

As someone who has only dipped their toe into this content once and come to the conclusion that I'm not ready for it yet, I can see two major issues.
-The start of EA is over-tuned for a lot of players
-EA requires experienced and well-geared players to waste a lot of time before they reach challenging content.

Clearly a blanket nerf would exacerbate the issues for the second group and probably cause a lot of resentment.
While leaving things as they are will probably mean EA remains niche content for the few.
Finding a way to accommodate casual players without ruining the fun for more skilled players would be a bonus, especially since so many of the rewards seem to be things that casual players are more likely to want.

The only other game I've played with a similar dungeon started everyone off at a level where the difficulty was trivial but then allowed players to jump straight to the more challenging levels after they had played through those early levels once.

To discourage players from only doing the low levels, rewards were scaled. Low levels gave pets, glamour and tokens to buy a mount, but gear, more prestigious mounts and trophies were only achievable by doing the harder content.
Maybe something similar could work here. Casual players could stick with the lower arcs until they are ready to move on, while the more experienced players could go straight to content they enjoy without having to one-shot a load of trash and trivial bosses first.

I also think some way for players to save progress would be very helpful, as the way EA is at the moment, does not encourage healthy game-play.

Warhawke_80 · November 2023

The difficulty is ridiculous...

But I have just been told not to go there by another player so I won't ...more content that isn't for me just what I always wanted.

The gatekeeping in this game is what turns a lot of us off... yes you please a few hyper-competitives...but you lose Joe average and that I would imagine is where most of your profits are made.

Braffin · November 2023

I'd really like to see some metrics about completion of Arc 1 tbh.

The only data available currently are the leaderboards itself, which show the following numbers atm:

highest placing solo: 9.4.1 on arcanist - lowest placing solo: 2.1.2 on necromancer

highest placing duo: 14.4.3 - lowest placing duo: 5.3.1

I don't think all those people aren't casual anymore and we definitely aren't talking about "niche content for the few" but a big chunk of the playerbase.

Even here in forums, where we are used to some players screaming for nerfs on day 1 every time new content gets published, they are clearly the minority.

EA is fine, but I agree with @NoticeMeArkay , that some players should really think about their attitude.

Jaraal · November 2023

Sarannah wrote: »

Thanks, but I manually repair with repair kits. It is just a mechanic that should not be in there. I want to focus on the archive's encounters, not on my degrading gear.

Well, that makes sense. If I had to spend the time to manually repair my gear, I'd be upset about it degrading, too.

NoticeMeArkay · November 2023

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

The difficulty is ridiculous...

But I have just been told not to go there by another player so I won't ...more content that isn't for me just what I always wanted.

The gatekeeping in this game is what turns a lot of us off... yes you please a few hyper-competitives...but you lose Joe average and that I would imagine is where most of your profits are made.

Misuse of the word "Gatekeeping" by a long shot.
Also "I have just been told not to go there" - I'm sorry, but what?

I think EA's difficulty should be the least of your concerns at this very moment.

Idelise · November 2023

evan302 wrote: »

As someone who has only dipped their toe into this content once and come to the conclusion that I'm not ready for it yet, I can see two major issues.
-The start of EA is over-tuned for a lot of players
-EA requires experienced and well-geared players to waste a lot of time before they reach challenging content.

Clearly a blanket nerf would exacerbate the issues for the second group and probably cause a lot of resentment.
While leaving things as they are will probably mean EA remains niche content for the few.
Finding a way to accommodate casual players without ruining the fun for more skilled players would be a bonus, especially since so many of the rewards seem to be things that casual players are more likely to want.

The only other game I've played with a similar dungeon started everyone off at a level where the difficulty was trivial but then allowed players to jump straight to the more challenging levels after they had played through those early levels once.

To discourage players from only doing the low levels, rewards were scaled. Low levels gave pets, glamour and tokens to buy a mount, but gear, more prestigious mounts and trophies were only achievable by doing the harder content.
Maybe something similar could work here. Casual players could stick with the lower arcs until they are ready to move on, while the more experienced players could go straight to the content they enjoy without having to one-shot a load of trash and trivial bosses first.

I also think some way for players to save progress would be very helpful, as the way EA is at the moment, does not encourage healthy game-play.

Do you mean FFXIV and its Palace of the Dead?

I need to say, FFXIV content of 100 levels was often easier and more fair than EA. In EA you can get easily messed up by having a bad boss spawn during your journey. With FFXIV and PotD, HoH and now I think Eureka, the experience is far more progressive and once you learn the levels, it is pretty easy to progress through. Here it feels like RNG can mess you up at the worst possible time. Even with full gear, I struggle by not following the apparent tank meta and instead going on my squishy caster.
I feel like low levels should be far more accessible for as someone said 'average Joe' players - and allow for the higher tier players to just start from higher levels of the dungeon. This way, both sides lose. veterans are bored at the beginner levels. Newbies struggle (and eventually give up) at the basic ones. I had a handful of my friends just decide to never engage with content after a few bad bouts with the bosses.

Admittedly, this experience made me re-sub to FFXIV. I missed the deep dungeon experience - but the one in ESO is just... not very good.

Syldras · November 2023

Braffin wrote: »

With all due respect, but not everyone is reward-driven. Most players are playing video games because they're interested in the content (can be everything from stories to interesting gameplay and combat mechanics).

Some people might not care for rewards at all, but aren't rewards also a big part of the game? If not, why do we have things like the set stickerbook, dozens of different style motifs, hundreds of recipes and furniture items and collectibles that can be found by collecting items in public dungeons or during events? Why do we have treasure maps and half a dozen of different boxes to loot if rewards wouldn't matter? Is housing not game content? For housing, furniture plans are needed.

Inaya1 wrote: »

Don't like difficults? Can't pass this? Then why did you go there? Maybe zos just can add a free Godslayer to your account?
Just an FYI. Almost the majority of the entire community left Teso. BECAUSE IT BECAME UNINTERESTING TO PLAY. The difficulty is too easy, [snip] Therefore, most of the community has left for other projects and is unlikely to return.
CAN'T PASS IT? - DON'T GO THERE.

Name one reason why difficulty shouldn't be balanced in a way that both beginners and vets can enjoy the new dungeon. Extra points if you manage without exaggerations and assumptions towards people you don't even know.

caperon · November 2023

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

How the truth is considered trolling and baiting is a mystery to me. I guess im from a diferent generation.

You can flag this message too, it wont make you a better player.

caperon · November 2023

Syldras wrote: »

Name one reason why difficulty shouldn't be balanced in a way that both beginners and vets can enjoy the new dungeon. Extra points if you manage without exaggerations and assumptions towards people you don't even know.

It already is, arc 1 can be completed by a naked character. What else you want?

spartaxoxo · November 2023

caperon wrote: »

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

This is not a good test to determine that. It shows it's doable on such a character. But difficulty is subjective. A great player in bad gear doesn't suddenly lose their vast knowledge, ability to react, etc.

I'll have to wait make my own judgment on difficulty.

But, I think the only two things that can really determine if arc 1 is too hard for casuals is the completion ratios and feedback from casuals.