Please fix Endless Archive difficulty

Sarannah

So I went into the EA a few times more. This time on another class, my PvP DPS magicka templar. Went about the same as on my PvE DPS arcanist, just a bit slower. The arc 2 final boss keeps beating me with ease, even though nothing before it gave me any trouble. There is just too much going on at that boss, ground aoe's, beams, the boss's attacks, adds, changing to small arena, etc. It's just too much for me to handle.

Also killed a few marauders(Ulmor and Hilkarax) this time, and got killed by the Maugogh one again. Though I almost got him this time. And I found out about the treasure scamps.

Even though I dislike arena's, I love the EA. And I've been having quite some fun, even though I'm not getting very far.

PS: For those discussing difficulty... I am not a DPS player, but a tank player. Not every ESO player is trained to be a DPS, or wants to be a DPS.
PPS: Degrading gear(repairing) should be removed in the EA, and the vampire stage timer should be frozen. There is also a bug with buffs, like some others have already posted about in this thread.

spartaxoxo

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

No, it is Duo content that can be soloed.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/category/update40

Prepare yourself for an all-new PvE challenge in the Endless Archive, a unique unending dungeon-like activity. Whether you go it solo or team up with a fellow player or Companion, your success in the Endless Archive is limited only by your preparation, skills, and determination.

No. It is solo or duo, not duo but obviously some people are crazy skilled so they can solo. They specifically advertise it as something to go in alone.

They also very explicitly said that you could start solo and invite a friend or pull out a companion to make it easier duo. Duo is the clear balance point of the content, which was my point. Solo is clearly going to be harder than duo, and that should be the case with the way this content is designed.

Yes, they recommend three ways to play. Solo, with a companion, or with a friend. They also point out there is a separate leaderboard for solo players. Solo is supposed to be its own, legitimate and supported, separate way to run the archives. It's not like soloing a group dungeon where the content isn't meant to be designed for solo players. The content is advertised as something that should be doable solo or with a companion.

There are three ways to play: Solo, with a Companion or with a friend.
There are two Leaderboards for Endless Archive: One for solo players and one for duo.
Rewards are offered to adventurers who delve the furthest!

If it's obvious they haven't taken the solo player into account for at least the earliest verses, then that content is not properly turned for solo play. I can't speak to if they have or not. I am just saying it's explicitly advertised as a solo activity, so I expect the design to take that into account.

Jierdanit

Syldras wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

This is Duo content. It is clearly expected that duos are the norm for balance approach. Beginners aren't expected to solo this they are expected to duo it. And then progress to being able to solo it.

I might remember wrong, but I think ZOS announced it as solo content that can optionally be played with a friend?

The question remains: Are 2 beginners supposed to be able to successfully fight a trial boss? One or two, considering trials were originally be supposed to be content for groups of 12 people, I doubt it makes a big difference.

They are not the same as trial bosses though.

The bosses in EA have a lot less hp than trial bosses and the mechanics are adjusted to be able to be completed solo.
Youre not fighting a boss you usually fight with 12 people alone. Youre fighting a boss that is similar but has been specifically designed for 1 or 2 players to fight.

The bosses in EA were never supposed to be fought by 12 people, theyre supposed to be fought solo or duo. Stop acting like you dont understand that.

Syldras

Braffin wrote: »

The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it.

Does this even make any sense?

What I see in this thread is both beginners complaining the new content was too hard, and vets complaining the new content was too easy, as well as people who wonder why ZOS didn't mind to find a solution for this problem, which was more than foreseeable.

In my case, it's not even personal, I find hours of fighting without any narration completely boring, so I just handle this the same as I handled the card game, because I found that boring as hell either: I might give it a try a few times, and then never touch it again. There's enough other things to do in this game, and there are enough other games out there too, so I don't have to cling to the one activity I find boring.

Braffin wrote: »

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

Is it assumption time again?

jaws343

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

No, it is Duo content that can be soloed.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/category/update40

Prepare yourself for an all-new PvE challenge in the Endless Archive, a unique unending dungeon-like activity. Whether you go it solo or team up with a fellow player or Companion, your success in the Endless Archive is limited only by your preparation, skills, and determination.

No. It is solo or duo, not duo but obviously some people are crazy skilled so they can solo. They specifically advertise it as something to go in alone.

They also very explicitly said that you could start solo and invite a friend or pull out a companion to make it easier duo. Duo is the clear balance point of the content, which was my point. Solo is clearly going to be harder than duo, and that should be the case with the way this content is designed.

Yes, they recommend three ways to play. Solo, with a companion, or with a friend. They also point out there is a separate leaderboard for solo players. Solo is supposed to be its own, separate way to run the archives. It's not like soloing a group dungeon where the content isn't meant to be designed for solo players. The content is advertised as something that should be doable solo or with a companion.

There are three ways to play: Solo, with a Companion or with a friend.
There are two Leaderboards for Endless Archive: One for solo players and one for duo.
Rewards are offered to adventurers who delve the furthest!

If it's obvious they haven't taken the solo player into account for at least the earliest verses, then that content is not properly turned for solo play.

Not a single bit of that contradicts that the content is balanced around 2 players and that approaching it as a duo inherently makes the content easier than approaching it solo.

spartaxoxo

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

How the truth is considered trolling and baiting is a mystery to me. I guess im from a diferent generation.

You can flag this message too, it wont make you a better player.

And now do the same with a char that has not 2000 CP, but is lvl 10.

Why all the content should be available to anyone regardless of lvl? Should a lvl 10 character be able to complete hard mode dreadsail reef? Go to fungal grotto 1 and stop complaining.

We're still talking about an in-game activity that increases its difficulty and should therefore scale from "very easy" to "very hard" so that all players - who ultimately spend money on the game's content - can participate. And that also includes lvl 10 players who probably won't be able to do Fungal Grotto 1 solo - at least I can't remember that I had any chance with my first char at lvl 10 without any CP.

This statement is nothing but ridiculous. EA is meant as challenging content across the board, with Arc 1 being the baseline at a very low difficulty already.

A player with lvl 10 is still able to participate in EA tho and if they're really that new to the game, they get a whole lot out of this content. All the overland sets for example. Newer players don't have them. If they group up with a buddy they can easily manage to reach Arc 2, while they level up decently. Sounds rewarding for me.

The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

https://youtu.be/aypqJhUi0eM?si=Mu25j4PjPbTMrSoh

Venture into a myriad of randomized arenas, either: solo, or with an ally. Contend with waves of monsters and challenging boss encounters. Climb the leaderboards to earn powerful and unique rewards. The Endless Archive is a brand-new PvE activity for all of Tamriel's adventurers. Good Luck.

Yup. Everyone is supposed to be able to get something out of it. So, Arc 1 should be able to completed by the majority of the playerbase. But, they also said that it was going to be challenging for everyone too.

Adjusted the difficulty scaling in Endless Archive. Arc 1 is now less difficult while further Arcs increase in difficulty more quickly. This affects Stage monsters, Cycle bosses and Tho’at Replicanum.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
The goal of this change is to address two pieces of feedback: Arc 1 was too difficult for the intended audience, and it took too long for experienced players to reach difficult content. Now, you’ll have an easier time with Arc 1 but the monsters ramp in difficulty much sooner.

They also stated this when they discussed their nerf to Arc 1 in the PTS. Clearly, Arc 1 is not intended for veteran players. The intended audience for Arc 1 is the audience that needed the nerf on the PTS. But, it's supposed to ramp up in difficulty to veteran content fairly quickly. They don't want vet players to have to wait overly long to get a challenge.

So, the question becomes, what is reasonably challenging for a casual player? Because they are supposed to be challenged by arc 1 but they are also supposed to be able to beat it. A lot of players seem to describe it as say a world boss? That seems appropriate to me on paper. I can't wait to check it out for myself.

spartaxoxo

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

No, it is Duo content that can be soloed.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/category/update40

Prepare yourself for an all-new PvE challenge in the Endless Archive, a unique unending dungeon-like activity. Whether you go it solo or team up with a fellow player or Companion, your success in the Endless Archive is limited only by your preparation, skills, and determination.

No. It is solo or duo, not duo but obviously some people are crazy skilled so they can solo. They specifically advertise it as something to go in alone.

They also very explicitly said that you could start solo and invite a friend or pull out a companion to make it easier duo. Duo is the clear balance point of the content, which was my point. Solo is clearly going to be harder than duo, and that should be the case with the way this content is designed.

Yes, they recommend three ways to play. Solo, with a companion, or with a friend. They also point out there is a separate leaderboard for solo players. Solo is supposed to be its own, separate way to run the archives. It's not like soloing a group dungeon where the content isn't meant to be designed for solo players. The content is advertised as something that should be doable solo or with a companion.

There are three ways to play: Solo, with a Companion or with a friend.
There are two Leaderboards for Endless Archive: One for solo players and one for duo.
Rewards are offered to adventurers who delve the furthest!

If it's obvious they haven't taken the solo player into account for at least the earliest verses, then that content is not properly turned for solo play.

Not a single bit of that contradicts that the content is balanced around 2 players and that approaching it as a duo inherently makes the content easier than approaching it solo.

Approaching it as a duo is going to inherently make it easier.

But, it absolutely shouldn't be the case that is designed to be duo'ed. It should be designed to be both solo and duo'ed, as that's how it is advertised and that's how the leaderboards are setup.

I can't play it yet. But, I would expect to be able to keep my pets/companions alive. That i would not need a tank to absorb even light attacks early in the archive. That there would be no mechanics that hard required another player. And potentially that maybe the little buffs you get are very slightly stronger if you're alone.

Again, I need to try it for myself, but if those things aren't the case, I will not be happy with it as solo content. And "it's meant for duos" won't cut that being bad design decisions for content explicitly advertised as solo content. I plan on using this content as an activity I do alone most of the time. I don't expect to get as far or have it as easy as a duo. I do expect the content to be designed to be accommodating to solo play.

Braffin

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

How the truth is considered trolling and baiting is a mystery to me. I guess im from a diferent generation.

You can flag this message too, it wont make you a better player.

And now do the same with a char that has not 2000 CP, but is lvl 10.

Why all the content should be available to anyone regardless of lvl? Should a lvl 10 character be able to complete hard mode dreadsail reef? Go to fungal grotto 1 and stop complaining.

We're still talking about an in-game activity that increases its difficulty and should therefore scale from "very easy" to "very hard" so that all players - who ultimately spend money on the game's content - can participate. And that also includes lvl 10 players who probably won't be able to do Fungal Grotto 1 solo - at least I can't remember that I had any chance with my first char at lvl 10 without any CP.

This statement is nothing but ridiculous. EA is meant as challenging content across the board, with Arc 1 being the baseline at a very low difficulty already.

A player with lvl 10 is still able to participate in EA tho and if they're really that new to the game, they get a whole lot out of this content. All the overland sets for example. Newer players don't have them. If they group up with a buddy they can easily manage to reach Arc 2, while they level up decently. Sounds rewarding for me.

The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

So, the question becomes, what is reasonably challenging for a casual player? Because they are supposed to be challenged by arc 1 but they are also supposed to be able to beat it. A lot of players seem to describe it as say a world boss? That seems appropriate to me on paper. I can't wait to check it out for myself.

I agree, Arc 1 should be managable for the majority of the playerbase, otherwise some adjustments should be made. I'm not against that. I exclude players which aren't interested in any challenge from this statement tho, as EA isn't meant to be played without challenge.

I think the most important metric (to which of course only zos has access, as they alreaddy did during PTS-cycle) is the number of attempts which failed already in Arc 1. These number should be as low as possible (preferablly lower than 10%). It would also make sense to look into the specific reasons leading to the failure, so more subtle adjustments are possible. That would be a fair approach imo.

Toxic_Hemlock

Braffin wrote: »

...snip
The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

Sorry to always be picking apart your posts @Braffin, but this makes no sense whatsoever.

I, for instance, play the game to have fun but I still have an interest in the combat aspects else I would just play something else.

I do want to play it and honestly I could care less for the rewards TBH. I feel locked out of the combat, because I AM locked out of it when I die repeatedly when I have far too many things to watch out for.

As for the crown store comment, I don't but I am sure many do, but again that has no bearing on a discussion of EA.

spartaxoxo

Braffin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

How the truth is considered trolling and baiting is a mystery to me. I guess im from a diferent generation.

You can flag this message too, it wont make you a better player.

And now do the same with a char that has not 2000 CP, but is lvl 10.

Why all the content should be available to anyone regardless of lvl? Should a lvl 10 character be able to complete hard mode dreadsail reef? Go to fungal grotto 1 and stop complaining.

We're still talking about an in-game activity that increases its difficulty and should therefore scale from "very easy" to "very hard" so that all players - who ultimately spend money on the game's content - can participate. And that also includes lvl 10 players who probably won't be able to do Fungal Grotto 1 solo - at least I can't remember that I had any chance with my first char at lvl 10 without any CP.

This statement is nothing but ridiculous. EA is meant as challenging content across the board, with Arc 1 being the baseline at a very low difficulty already.

A player with lvl 10 is still able to participate in EA tho and if they're really that new to the game, they get a whole lot out of this content. All the overland sets for example. Newer players don't have them. If they group up with a buddy they can easily manage to reach Arc 2, while they level up decently. Sounds rewarding for me.

The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

So, the question becomes, what is reasonably challenging for a casual player? Because they are supposed to be challenged by arc 1 but they are also supposed to be able to beat it. A lot of players seem to describe it as say a world boss? That seems appropriate to me on paper. I can't wait to check it out for myself.

I agree, Arc 1 should be managable for the majority of the playerbase, otherwise some adjustments should be made. I'm not against that. I exclude players which aren't interested in any challenge from this statement tho, as EA isn't meant to be played without challenge.

I think the most important metric (to which of course only zos has access, as they alreaddy did during PTS-cycle) is the number of attempts which failed already in Arc 1. These number should be as low as possible (preferablly lower than 10%). It would also make sense to look into the specific reasons leading to the failure, so more subtle adjustments are possible. That would be a fair approach imo.

That's pretty much my view as well. I think it would potentially okay to nerf it down to public dungeon/quest boss level if it's really true that most player cannot handle a world boss. I mean, I'm skeptical, but if that is indeed the case then nerf it. IDC. It's literally just the first arc. I also think that this type of feedback may be helpful for more subtle adjustments on commonly mentioned pain points. For example, I noticed some players complaining about the light attacks from some of the bosses. Or that the trial bosses in particular were too much, but the other bosses were okay. So, maybe they could make those guys spawn starting in arc 2.

IDK. But, I don't think it's necessary for it to be as easy as the first boss you encounter on Stros M'kai or wherever.

jaws343

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

How the truth is considered trolling and baiting is a mystery to me. I guess im from a diferent generation.

You can flag this message too, it wont make you a better player.

And now do the same with a char that has not 2000 CP, but is lvl 10.

Why all the content should be available to anyone regardless of lvl? Should a lvl 10 character be able to complete hard mode dreadsail reef? Go to fungal grotto 1 and stop complaining.

We're still talking about an in-game activity that increases its difficulty and should therefore scale from "very easy" to "very hard" so that all players - who ultimately spend money on the game's content - can participate. And that also includes lvl 10 players who probably won't be able to do Fungal Grotto 1 solo - at least I can't remember that I had any chance with my first char at lvl 10 without any CP.

This statement is nothing but ridiculous. EA is meant as challenging content across the board, with Arc 1 being the baseline at a very low difficulty already.

A player with lvl 10 is still able to participate in EA tho and if they're really that new to the game, they get a whole lot out of this content. All the overland sets for example. Newer players don't have them. If they group up with a buddy they can easily manage to reach Arc 2, while they level up decently. Sounds rewarding for me.

The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

So, the question becomes, what is reasonably challenging for a casual player? Because they are supposed to be challenged by arc 1 but they are also supposed to be able to beat it. A lot of players seem to describe it as say a world boss? That seems appropriate to me on paper. I can't wait to check it out for myself.

I agree, Arc 1 should be managable for the majority of the playerbase, otherwise some adjustments should be made. I'm not against that. I exclude players which aren't interested in any challenge from this statement tho, as EA isn't meant to be played without challenge.

I think the most important metric (to which of course only zos has access, as they alreaddy did during PTS-cycle) is the number of attempts which failed already in Arc 1. These number should be as low as possible (preferablly lower than 10%). It would also make sense to look into the specific reasons leading to the failure, so more subtle adjustments are possible. That would be a fair approach imo.

That's pretty much my view as well. I think it would potentially okay to nerf it down to public dungeon/quest boss level if it's really true that most player cannot handle a world boss. I mean, I'm skeptical, but if that is indeed the case then nerf it. IDC. It's literally just the first arc. I also think that this type of feedback may be helpful for more subtle adjustments on commonly mentioned pain points. For example, I noticed some players complaining about the light attacks from some of the bosses. Or that the trial bosses in particular were too much, but the other bosses were okay. So, maybe they could make those guys spawn starting in arc 2.

IDK. But, I don't think it's necessary for it to be as easy as the first boss you encounter on Stros M'kai or wherever.

At that difficulty, they might as well just give arc completion on entering the dungeon. Public dungeon difficulty is a joke, and doing that to EA would pretty much make the rewards a participation trophy.

Braffin

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

...snip
The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

Sorry to always be picking apart your posts @Braffin, but this makes no sense whatsoever.

I, for instance, play the game to have fun but I still have an interest in the combat aspects else I would just play something else.

I do want to play it and honestly I could care less for the rewards TBH. I feel locked out of the combat, because I AM locked out of it when I die repeatedly when I have far too many things to watch out for.

As for the crown store comment, I don't but I am sure many do, but again that has no bearing on a discussion of EA.

No need to apologize, this forums are meant to share different opinions.

If you aren't after the rewards exclusively, I simply talked about you. The people I described exist nonetheless, they even said so themselves in this very thread.

If you are interested in the challenge, I can only advise you to learn the mechanics step by step in your own pace. Maybe watch a vid or read some guide about the bosses, which are specifically problematic for you. Or enter EA with a friend and try to progress together.

I know, a save-feature and the possibility to try a difficult boss more than three times before the whole thing resets would help much in regard of learning mechanics. I can only hope zos will consider this additions, which would help literally everyone.

Toxic_Hemlock

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

How the truth is considered trolling and baiting is a mystery to me. I guess im from a diferent generation.

You can flag this message too, it wont make you a better player.

And now do the same with a char that has not 2000 CP, but is lvl 10.

Why all the content should be available to anyone regardless of lvl? Should a lvl 10 character be able to complete hard mode dreadsail reef? Go to fungal grotto 1 and stop complaining.

We're still talking about an in-game activity that increases its difficulty and should therefore scale from "very easy" to "very hard" so that all players - who ultimately spend money on the game's content - can participate. And that also includes lvl 10 players who probably won't be able to do Fungal Grotto 1 solo - at least I can't remember that I had any chance with my first char at lvl 10 without any CP.

This statement is nothing but ridiculous. EA is meant as challenging content across the board, with Arc 1 being the baseline at a very low difficulty already.

A player with lvl 10 is still able to participate in EA tho and if they're really that new to the game, they get a whole lot out of this content. All the overland sets for example. Newer players don't have them. If they group up with a buddy they can easily manage to reach Arc 2, while they level up decently. Sounds rewarding for me.

The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

So, the question becomes, what is reasonably challenging for a casual player? Because they are supposed to be challenged by arc 1 but they are also supposed to be able to beat it. A lot of players seem to describe it as say a world boss? That seems appropriate to me on paper. I can't wait to check it out for myself.

I agree, Arc 1 should be managable for the majority of the playerbase, otherwise some adjustments should be made. I'm not against that. I exclude players which aren't interested in any challenge from this statement tho, as EA isn't meant to be played without challenge.

I think the most important metric (to which of course only zos has access, as they alreaddy did during PTS-cycle) is the number of attempts which failed already in Arc 1. These number should be as low as possible (preferablly lower than 10%). It would also make sense to look into the specific reasons leading to the failure, so more subtle adjustments are possible. That would be a fair approach imo.

That's pretty much my view as well. I think it would potentially okay to nerf it down to public dungeon/quest boss level if it's really true that most player cannot handle a world boss. I mean, I'm skeptical, but if that is indeed the case then nerf it. IDC. It's literally just the first arc. I also think that this type of feedback may be helpful for more subtle adjustments on commonly mentioned pain points. For example, I noticed some players complaining about the light attacks from some of the bosses. Or that the trial bosses in particular were too much, but the other bosses were okay. So, maybe they could make those guys spawn starting in arc 2.

IDK. But, I don't think it's necessary for it to be as easy as the first boss you encounter on Stros M'kai or wherever.

In all honesty this is all I am asking for in Arc 1. Others might still have a hard time with it, but so long as they remove the trial bosses with all the effects and the pedestal sized dragons, I would be good with it. The final boss should be taken out of his small closet too as it seems to be not suitable for such a big boss.

edit: not getting any younger

spartaxoxo

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

How the truth is considered trolling and baiting is a mystery to me. I guess im from a diferent generation.

You can flag this message too, it wont make you a better player.

And now do the same with a char that has not 2000 CP, but is lvl 10.

Why all the content should be available to anyone regardless of lvl? Should a lvl 10 character be able to complete hard mode dreadsail reef? Go to fungal grotto 1 and stop complaining.

We're still talking about an in-game activity that increases its difficulty and should therefore scale from "very easy" to "very hard" so that all players - who ultimately spend money on the game's content - can participate. And that also includes lvl 10 players who probably won't be able to do Fungal Grotto 1 solo - at least I can't remember that I had any chance with my first char at lvl 10 without any CP.

This statement is nothing but ridiculous. EA is meant as challenging content across the board, with Arc 1 being the baseline at a very low difficulty already.

A player with lvl 10 is still able to participate in EA tho and if they're really that new to the game, they get a whole lot out of this content. All the overland sets for example. Newer players don't have them. If they group up with a buddy they can easily manage to reach Arc 2, while they level up decently. Sounds rewarding for me.

The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

So, the question becomes, what is reasonably challenging for a casual player? Because they are supposed to be challenged by arc 1 but they are also supposed to be able to beat it. A lot of players seem to describe it as say a world boss? That seems appropriate to me on paper. I can't wait to check it out for myself.

I agree, Arc 1 should be managable for the majority of the playerbase, otherwise some adjustments should be made. I'm not against that. I exclude players which aren't interested in any challenge from this statement tho, as EA isn't meant to be played without challenge.

I think the most important metric (to which of course only zos has access, as they alreaddy did during PTS-cycle) is the number of attempts which failed already in Arc 1. These number should be as low as possible (preferablly lower than 10%). It would also make sense to look into the specific reasons leading to the failure, so more subtle adjustments are possible. That would be a fair approach imo.

That's pretty much my view as well. I think it would potentially okay to nerf it down to public dungeon/quest boss level if it's really true that most player cannot handle a world boss. I mean, I'm skeptical, but if that is indeed the case then nerf it. IDC. It's literally just the first arc. I also think that this type of feedback may be helpful for more subtle adjustments on commonly mentioned pain points. For example, I noticed some players complaining about the light attacks from some of the bosses. Or that the trial bosses in particular were too much, but the other bosses were okay. So, maybe they could make those guys spawn starting in arc 2.

IDK. But, I don't think it's necessary for it to be as easy as the first boss you encounter on Stros M'kai or wherever.

At that difficulty, they might as well just give arc completion on entering the dungeon. Public dungeon difficulty is a joke, and doing that to EA would pretty much make the rewards a participation trophy.

There are definitely players that find public dungeons to be difficult. Actually, the last time someone actually spoke to me in a public dungeon, they asked for help with the group event boss in Blackwood (Silent Halls).

Also, I don't think the entire archive becomes pointless if Arc 1 was easy. The whole point is seeing how far you can go, so the prestige comes from the later rounds, not the first one.

Toxic_Hemlock

Braffin wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

...snip
The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

Sorry to always be picking apart your posts @Braffin, but this makes no sense whatsoever.

I, for instance, play the game to have fun but I still have an interest in the combat aspects else I would just play something else.

I do want to play it and honestly I could care less for the rewards TBH. I feel locked out of the combat, because I AM locked out of it when I die repeatedly when I have far too many things to watch out for.

As for the crown store comment, I don't but I am sure many do, but again that has no bearing on a discussion of EA.

No need to apologize, this forums are meant to share different opinions.

If you aren't after the rewards exclusively, I simply talked about you. The people I described exist nonetheless, they even said so themselves in this very thread.

If you are interested in the challenge, I can only advise you to learn the mechanics step by step in your own pace. Maybe watch a vid or read some guide about the bosses, which are specifically problematic for you. Or enter EA with a friend and try to progress together.

I know, a save-feature and the possibility to try a difficult boss more than three times before the whole thing resets would help much in regard of learning mechanics. I can only hope zos will consider this additions, which would help literally everyone.

Interested in the challenge has really nothing to do with my ABILITY to do them. I did watch the entire 2 hour vid on the mechanics, and although many of them looked doable by ME, some others were nausea inducing with the amount of noise happening.

The reason I stick to less complex combat (although I still like it) is due to being unable to block/dodge and react that quickly.

I still don't think people like myself should be locked out of the daily though.

Braffin

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

How the truth is considered trolling and baiting is a mystery to me. I guess im from a diferent generation.

You can flag this message too, it wont make you a better player.

And now do the same with a char that has not 2000 CP, but is lvl 10.

Why all the content should be available to anyone regardless of lvl? Should a lvl 10 character be able to complete hard mode dreadsail reef? Go to fungal grotto 1 and stop complaining.

We're still talking about an in-game activity that increases its difficulty and should therefore scale from "very easy" to "very hard" so that all players - who ultimately spend money on the game's content - can participate. And that also includes lvl 10 players who probably won't be able to do Fungal Grotto 1 solo - at least I can't remember that I had any chance with my first char at lvl 10 without any CP.

This statement is nothing but ridiculous. EA is meant as challenging content across the board, with Arc 1 being the baseline at a very low difficulty already.

A player with lvl 10 is still able to participate in EA tho and if they're really that new to the game, they get a whole lot out of this content. All the overland sets for example. Newer players don't have them. If they group up with a buddy they can easily manage to reach Arc 2, while they level up decently. Sounds rewarding for me.

The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

So, the question becomes, what is reasonably challenging for a casual player? Because they are supposed to be challenged by arc 1 but they are also supposed to be able to beat it. A lot of players seem to describe it as say a world boss? That seems appropriate to me on paper. I can't wait to check it out for myself.

I agree, Arc 1 should be managable for the majority of the playerbase, otherwise some adjustments should be made. I'm not against that. I exclude players which aren't interested in any challenge from this statement tho, as EA isn't meant to be played without challenge.

I think the most important metric (to which of course only zos has access, as they alreaddy did during PTS-cycle) is the number of attempts which failed already in Arc 1. These number should be as low as possible (preferablly lower than 10%). It would also make sense to look into the specific reasons leading to the failure, so more subtle adjustments are possible. That would be a fair approach imo.

That's pretty much my view as well. I think it would potentially okay to nerf it down to public dungeon/quest boss level if it's really true that most player cannot handle a world boss. I mean, I'm skeptical, but if that is indeed the case then nerf it. IDC. It's literally just the first arc. I also think that this type of feedback may be helpful for more subtle adjustments on commonly mentioned pain points. For example, I noticed some players complaining about the light attacks from some of the bosses. Or that the trial bosses in particular were too much, but the other bosses were okay. So, maybe they could make those guys spawn starting in arc 2.

IDK. But, I don't think it's necessary for it to be as easy as the first boss you encounter on Stros M'kai or wherever.

I agree, if the metrics really show that results, it should be done. I simply doubt, that's the case (so yeah, we don't differ here).

Tbh I simply think, that some people aren't used to paying attention to mechanics anymore. And that's something, which shouldn't be nerfed away at all. Also Arc 1 should only be doable if people play mechanics. Otherwise the whole thing becomes pointless and a big chance for interested casuals/new players/or whatever we call them to get accustomed to this game's combat is gone.

I remember people complaining about the gap in difficulty between normal and veteran for almost as long as this game exists. And I indeed agree. I've seen countless times how challenging the jump into veteran content can be. EA is a much more fluid experience, allowing more players than ever before to get the feel of progression (I mean, there is absolutely no shame in being happy about beating Arc 1 the first time. It's simply the feeling of having beaten something, you couldn't before. Highly-skilled players have to run into much further Arcs for the same experience. Everything else is the same.). That's absolutely something zos should preserve.

jaws343

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I repeat: Arc 1 is not difficult, it can be completed with a naked character in 24 minutes. The proof is my previous message.

How the truth is considered trolling and baiting is a mystery to me. I guess im from a diferent generation.

You can flag this message too, it wont make you a better player.

And now do the same with a char that has not 2000 CP, but is lvl 10.

Why all the content should be available to anyone regardless of lvl? Should a lvl 10 character be able to complete hard mode dreadsail reef? Go to fungal grotto 1 and stop complaining.

We're still talking about an in-game activity that increases its difficulty and should therefore scale from "very easy" to "very hard" so that all players - who ultimately spend money on the game's content - can participate. And that also includes lvl 10 players who probably won't be able to do Fungal Grotto 1 solo - at least I can't remember that I had any chance with my first char at lvl 10 without any CP.

This statement is nothing but ridiculous. EA is meant as challenging content across the board, with Arc 1 being the baseline at a very low difficulty already.

A player with lvl 10 is still able to participate in EA tho and if they're really that new to the game, they get a whole lot out of this content. All the overland sets for example. Newer players don't have them. If they group up with a buddy they can easily manage to reach Arc 2, while they level up decently. Sounds rewarding for me.

The group I see complaining the most is the (usual) seasoned veteran with next to no interest in this game's combat (and corresponding skill) which feels locked out of content, because they don't want to play it. They are only after the rewards.

Really guys, do you also buy everything out of the crown-store to "have it all"? Would only be consistent.

So, the question becomes, what is reasonably challenging for a casual player? Because they are supposed to be challenged by arc 1 but they are also supposed to be able to beat it. A lot of players seem to describe it as say a world boss? That seems appropriate to me on paper. I can't wait to check it out for myself.

I agree, Arc 1 should be managable for the majority of the playerbase, otherwise some adjustments should be made. I'm not against that. I exclude players which aren't interested in any challenge from this statement tho, as EA isn't meant to be played without challenge.

I think the most important metric (to which of course only zos has access, as they alreaddy did during PTS-cycle) is the number of attempts which failed already in Arc 1. These number should be as low as possible (preferablly lower than 10%). It would also make sense to look into the specific reasons leading to the failure, so more subtle adjustments are possible. That would be a fair approach imo.

That's pretty much my view as well. I think it would potentially okay to nerf it down to public dungeon/quest boss level if it's really true that most player cannot handle a world boss. I mean, I'm skeptical, but if that is indeed the case then nerf it. IDC. It's literally just the first arc. I also think that this type of feedback may be helpful for more subtle adjustments on commonly mentioned pain points. For example, I noticed some players complaining about the light attacks from some of the bosses. Or that the trial bosses in particular were too much, but the other bosses were okay. So, maybe they could make those guys spawn starting in arc 2.

IDK. But, I don't think it's necessary for it to be as easy as the first boss you encounter on Stros M'kai or wherever.

At that difficulty, they might as well just give arc completion on entering the dungeon. Public dungeon difficulty is a joke, and doing that to EA would pretty much make the rewards a participation trophy.

There are definitely players that find public dungeons to be difficult. Actually, the last time someone actually spoAke to me in a public dungeon, they asked for help with the group event boss in Blackwood (Silent Halls).

Also, I don't think the entire archive becomes pointless if Arc 1 was easy. The whole point is seeing how far you can go, so the prestige comes from the later rounds, not the first one.

And I contend that content flagged as a challenge shouldn't be balanced around players who struggle in overland content.

And arc 1 being sneeze and dead easy devalues the overall rewards for the content. Given you could then just mindlessly farm arc 1 at public dungeon level and get currency and rewards. It just becomes another public dungeon loop. Which can't be anywhere close to the actual intent of the content, which is to provide a challenge to players, not a reward button to press at will.

spartaxoxo

jaws343 wrote: »

And I contend that content flagged as a challenge shouldn't be balanced around players who struggle in overland content.

And arc 1 being sneeze and dead easy devalues the overall rewards for the content. Given you could then just mindlessly farm arc 1 at public dungeon level and get currency and rewards. It just becomes another public dungeon loop. Which can't be anywhere close to the actual intent of the content, which is to provide a challenge to players, not a reward button to press at will.

Content that is advertised as being for everyone should have at least the first level beatable by most players. Whatever difficulty that happens to be should be determined by stats. Endless Archive is not exclusively veteran content nor are the rewards intended to be gated to only veterans.

Braffin wrote: »

I remember people complaining about the gap in difficulty between normal and veteran for almost as long as this game exists. And I indeed agree. I've seen countless times how challenging the jump into veteran content can be. EA is a much more fluid experience, allowing more players than ever before to get the feel of progression (I mean, there is absolutely no shame in being happy about beating Arc 1 the first time. It's simply the feeling of having beaten something, you couldn't before. Highly-skilled players have to run into much further Arcs for the same experience. Everything else is the same.). That's absolutely something zos should preserve.

I agree. I actually wanted them to add a solo place to work on progressing as a player better for a long time. I originally envisioned as a training ground rather than anything remotely like the endless archive. But, I think some place you can go in solo and learn to play is a great benefit to the community. Because when you're by yourself, the negative social pressure from not being good (even when people are being nice about it!) isn't there. And also, you don't get false information about how good you're doing based off someone else's performance.

jaws343

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

And I contend that content flagged as a challenge shouldn't be balanced around players who struggle in overland content.

And arc 1 being sneeze and dead easy devalues the overall rewards for the content. Given you could then just mindlessly farm arc 1 at public dungeon level and get currency and rewards. It just becomes another public dungeon loop. Which can't be anywhere close to the actual intent of the content, which is to provide a challenge to players, not a reward button to press at will.

Content that is advertised as being for everyone should have at least the first level beatable by most players. Whatever difficulty that happens to be should be determined by stats. Endless Archive is not exclusively veteran content nor are the rewards intended to be gated to only veterans.

Braffin wrote: »

I remember people complaining about the gap in difficulty between normal and veteran for almost as long as this game exists. And I indeed agree. I've seen countless times how challenging the jump into veteran content can be. EA is a much more fluid experience, allowing more players than ever before to get the feel of progression (I mean, there is absolutely no shame in being happy about beating Arc 1 the first time. It's simply the feeling of having beaten something, you couldn't before. Highly-skilled players have to run into much further Arcs for the same experience. Everything else is the same.). That's absolutely something zos should preserve.

I agree. I actually wanted them to add a solo place to work on progressing as a player better for a long time. I originally envisioned as a training ground rather than anything remotely like the endless archive. But, I think some place you can go in solo and learn to play is a great benefit to the community. Because when you're by yourself, the negative social pressure from not being good (even when people are being nice about it!) isn't there. And also, you don't get false information about how good you're doing based off someone else's performance.

And I'll say it again, "everyone" is an extremely misleading twist on the release of this content. It has clearly been meant as being available, as base game content, to everyone. That has zero to do with difficulty.

By the logic presented as being doable by everyone, arc 1 might as well be a tutorial that a level 1 player can kite through. Which is ridiculous. This content is clearly meant to be a challenge, above overland content, balanced around two players.

spartaxoxo

jaws343 wrote: »

By the logic presented as being doable by everyone, arc 1 might as well be a tutorial that a level 1 player can kite through. Which is ridiculous. This content is clearly meant to be a challenge, above overland content, balanced around two players.

They flat out stated arc 1 had a different target audience when they nerfed arc 1 on PTS. They also have very explicitly stated that it is designed and balanced around both solo and duo players, to the point they even have a solo leaderboard. It is not like dungeons which are designed around 4 people but if you can beat it by yourself, hey more power to you. It is explicitly designed for variable group size.

It is not duo content. And it is for everyone. It starts out easy and gets progressively harder.

jaws343

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

By the logic presented as being doable by everyone, arc 1 might as well be a tutorial that a level 1 player can kite through. Which is ridiculous. This content is clearly meant to be a challenge, above overland content, balanced around two players.

They flat out stated arc 1 had a different target audience when they nerfed arc 1 on PTS. They also have very explicitly stated that it is designed and balanced around both solo and duo players, to the point they even have a solo leaderboard. It is not like dungeons which are designed around 4 people but if you can beat it by yourself, hey more power to you. It is explicitly designed for variable group size.

It is literally impossible to balance content with the same difficulty level around 2 group sizes. The content is either balanced around solo players or duos. Period.

And either approach, the end result is that the duo will obviously have an easier time with the content than the solo.

If a player cannot solo the content, the next step is to duo the content. Not nerf the content.

spartaxoxo

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

By the logic presented as being doable by everyone, arc 1 might as well be a tutorial that a level 1 player can kite through. Which is ridiculous. This content is clearly meant to be a challenge, above overland content, balanced around two players.

They flat out stated arc 1 had a different target audience when they nerfed arc 1 on PTS. They also have very explicitly stated that it is designed and balanced around both solo and duo players, to the point they even have a solo leaderboard. It is not like dungeons which are designed around 4 people but if you can beat it by yourself, hey more power to you. It is explicitly designed for variable group size.

It is literally impossible to balance content with the same difficulty level around 2 group sizes. The content is either balanced around solo players or duos. Period.

And either approach, the end result is that the duo will obviously have an easier time with the content than the solo.

If a player cannot solo the content, the next step is to duo the content. Not nerf the content.

That's not true. I gave some examples of things they can do to ensure that the content is balanced around both. Here's some more.

Light Attacks shouldn't be so strong in the early stages that you need one person to tank them and one person to do damage.

The various buffs can be slightly stronger for solo players. They weaken when you summon a companion, and lose the bonus entirely with a duo.

So for a fictional version

Defending Virtuoso: Reducing incoming damage by 10%. This bonus is increased to 12.5% when with a companion, and 15% solo.

No mechs that require someone else to interrupt for you or whatever.

Make pets/companions immune to aoe ground damage or take reduced damage from it at least, so that you can actually use them.

That sort of thing.

edit: Again, obviously someone alone shouldn't expect to get as far as someone in a duo. But, there should be absolutely be design decisions that are made to accommodate solo play. And if even fairly good players cannot handle a mechanic solo, then that mechanic needs a look.

edit 2: But I'll digress here.

Tandor

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

And I contend that content flagged as a challenge shouldn't be balanced around players who struggle in overland content.

And arc 1 being sneeze and dead easy devalues the overall rewards for the content. Given you could then just mindlessly farm arc 1 at public dungeon level and get currency and rewards. It just becomes another public dungeon loop. Which can't be anywhere close to the actual intent of the content, which is to provide a challenge to players, not a reward button to press at will.

Content that is advertised as being for everyone should have at least the first level beatable by most players. Whatever difficulty that happens to be should be determined by stats. Endless Archive is not exclusively veteran content nor are the rewards intended to be gated to only veterans.

Braffin wrote: »

I remember people complaining about the gap in difficulty between normal and veteran for almost as long as this game exists. And I indeed agree. I've seen countless times how challenging the jump into veteran content can be. EA is a much more fluid experience, allowing more players than ever before to get the feel of progression (I mean, there is absolutely no shame in being happy about beating Arc 1 the first time. It's simply the feeling of having beaten something, you couldn't before. Highly-skilled players have to run into much further Arcs for the same experience. Everything else is the same.). That's absolutely something zos should preserve.

I agree. I actually wanted them to add a solo place to work on progressing as a player better for a long time. I originally envisioned as a training ground rather than anything remotely like the endless archive. But, I think some place you can go in solo and learn to play is a great benefit to the community. Because when you're by yourself, the negative social pressure from not being good (even when people are being nice about it!) isn't there. And also, you don't get false information about how good you're doing based off someone else's performance.

And I'll say it again, "everyone" is an extremely misleading twist on the release of this content. It has clearly been meant as being available, as base game content, to everyone. That has zero to do with difficulty.

By the logic presented as being doable by everyone, arc 1 might as well be a tutorial that a level 1 player can kite through. Which is ridiculous. This content is clearly meant to be a challenge, above overland content, balanced around two players.

The marketing email I received the other day specifically stated that adventurers "can choose to go at it solo or team up with a fellow player or Companion to complete." I take that to mean complete Arc 1. That's enough to draw players in, which should be the main purpose of the first part of any game content, after that it's down to skill and RNG etc, but if it's advertised for solo or duo and there are separate leaderboards for solo and duo then it should be balanced around both playstyles.

jaws343

Tandor wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

And I contend that content flagged as a challenge shouldn't be balanced around players who struggle in overland content.

And arc 1 being sneeze and dead easy devalues the overall rewards for the content. Given you could then just mindlessly farm arc 1 at public dungeon level and get currency and rewards. It just becomes another public dungeon loop. Which can't be anywhere close to the actual intent of the content, which is to provide a challenge to players, not a reward button to press at will.

Content that is advertised as being for everyone should have at least the first level beatable by most players. Whatever difficulty that happens to be should be determined by stats. Endless Archive is not exclusively veteran content nor are the rewards intended to be gated to only veterans.

Braffin wrote: »

I remember people complaining about the gap in difficulty between normal and veteran for almost as long as this game exists. And I indeed agree. I've seen countless times how challenging the jump into veteran content can be. EA is a much more fluid experience, allowing more players than ever before to get the feel of progression (I mean, there is absolutely no shame in being happy about beating Arc 1 the first time. It's simply the feeling of having beaten something, you couldn't before. Highly-skilled players have to run into much further Arcs for the same experience. Everything else is the same.). That's absolutely something zos should preserve.

I agree. I actually wanted them to add a solo place to work on progressing as a player better for a long time. I originally envisioned as a training ground rather than anything remotely like the endless archive. But, I think some place you can go in solo and learn to play is a great benefit to the community. Because when you're by yourself, the negative social pressure from not being good (even when people are being nice about it!) isn't there. And also, you don't get false information about how good you're doing based off someone else's performance.

And I'll say it again, "everyone" is an extremely misleading twist on the release of this content. It has clearly been meant as being available, as base game content, to everyone. That has zero to do with difficulty.

By the logic presented as being doable by everyone, arc 1 might as well be a tutorial that a level 1 player can kite through. Which is ridiculous. This content is clearly meant to be a challenge, above overland content, balanced around two players.

The marketing email I received the other day specifically stated that adventurers "can choose to go at it solo or team up with a fellow player or Companion to complete." I take that to mean complete Arc 1. That's enough to draw players in, which should be the main purpose of the first part of any game content, after that it's down to skill and RNG etc, but if it's advertised for solo or duo and there are separate leaderboards for solo and duo then it should be balanced around both playstyles.

So you really think that the content saying the word complete entitles you to a completion of the content?

That is ridiculous. The clear intent with that statement is that the content is accessible by duos, solos, or with companion. It isn't a guarantee of completion. Like seriously, absolutely a ridiculous extrapolation.

Makes you really wonder why ZOS keeps coms with the playerbase at a minimum...

festegios

Please don’t make it easier. Especially before console even have a chance to try it.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

No, it is Duo content that can be soloed.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/category/update40

Prepare yourself for an all-new PvE challenge in the Endless Archive, a unique unending dungeon-like activity. Whether you go it solo or team up with a fellow player or Companion, your success in the Endless Archive is limited only by your preparation, skills, and determination.

No. It is solo or duo, not duo but obviously some people are crazy skilled so they can solo. They specifically advertise it as something to go in alone.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

No, it is Duo content that can be soloed.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/category/update40

Prepare yourself for an all-new PvE challenge in the Endless Archive, a unique unending dungeon-like activity. Whether you go it solo or team up with a fellow player or Companion, your success in the Endless Archive is limited only by your preparation, skills, and determination.

No. It is solo or duo, not duo but obviously some people are crazy skilled so they can solo. They specifically advertise it as something to go in alone.

They also very explicitly said that you could start solo and invite a friend or pull out a companion to make it easier duo. Duo is the clear balance point of the content, which was my point. Solo is clearly going to be harder than duo, and that should be the case with the way this content is designed.

Yes, they recommend three ways to play. Solo, with a companion, or with a friend. They also point out there is a separate leaderboard for solo players. Solo is supposed to be its own, legitimate and supported, separate way to run the archives. It's not like soloing a group dungeon where the content isn't meant to be designed for solo players. The content is advertised as something that should be doable solo or with a companion.

There are three ways to play: Solo, with a Companion or with a friend.
There are two Leaderboards for Endless Archive: One for solo players and one for duo.
Rewards are offered to adventurers who delve the furthest!

If it's obvious they haven't taken the solo player into account for at least the earliest verses, then that content is not properly turned for solo play. I can't speak to if they have or not. I am just saying it's explicitly advertised as a solo activity, so I expect the design to take that into account.

I think something being overlooked is to many players playing with a companion is solo play. I would wager that a sizeable portion of the people having problems on Arc1 are using a companion and consider that they are playing solo. Duo is playing with another player. So I think the problem is bigger than the players who are truly playing solo and that solo/companion play is also a problem for many newer and lesser skilled players.

I've been in EA once to check it out. I died from a one shot on the 4th Arc1 boss within a short time of starting the fight before I could even get an idea of what the boss was. Due to real life calling stopped playing at that point but I doubt I would have completed Stage 4 before running out of lives. Even with my companion I found the bosses, who I had never seen before, to be harder than your typical world boss and feel I could have easily died on any one of them. I have no plans to go back as I find EA too hit or miss as to whether a player will be able to complete Arc1 with RNG selecting bosses above their skill level. I think the boss scripts go too quickly from 0 to 100 and don't allow players who don't do trials or high level content like me an opportunity to figure out how the boss moves. The small arena size and dark lighting compounds the problems with boss action discovery. Personally I think bosses should be limited to non-trial base content bosses or the DLC/trial bosses should be brought down to open world boss levels. This might get me to try going back and at least run the daily. But until they do they could guarantee the best rewards in the game for completing Arc1 and I wouldn't go back.

Jammy420

Lugaldu wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

"Lets make an endless dungeon that gets harder and harder!"

This forum : " Why isnt it easy, and why cant we beat it!?"

Like, just lol.

When something becomes "harder and harder" it also means that it is easy at the beginning. But that's not even the case in EA at the moment in arc 1 - and that clearly refers to trial bosses and mechanics that pin you to the ground until you're dead, that kill you with one-shot with 100.000 damage, etc. I mean, it's even absurd that I encountered 10 Ogrims yesterday in 1.1.1... They don't affect me, but if a new player comes in here with a fresh character, then he probably won't even survive the first "trash mob". The difficulty descent in EA is completely unbalanced.

And I still find it fascinating that people here in the thread argue that ZOS "never announced that EA should be for all players". Accessible to everyone, yes, but not playable to everyone. So it's like the good old saying that you stand in front of the window of the candy store and can only look at everything, but you'll never get anything from it.
And I also can't understand why those people who rush through the first arcs without any problems because they're constantly doing trials and vet content are resistant to the idea that there should be different difficulty levels for the EA too. The same discussion happened before with the Bastion Nymic - some people seem to be happy when there are things that only they can do with ease. Nothing would be taken away from anyone if the EA had different difficulty levels, just like every dungeon, but it would allow a much larger number of players to participate in a highly announced new activity that at the moment only seems to be an exclusive treat for a handful of players.

I do not know what mechanics you are talking about. In EA there was nothing that did that to me, and I had no build whatsoever, just random blue and green pieces I found on the floor.

The candy store metaphor is simply untrue. It would be like if there was a free class on how to make progressively more difficult candy, and you had to practice in order to make the most intricate candy available. It is available and accessible to everyone, but only those who put in the practice get to be the best. And that is how it should be. There is enough hand holding in this game that requires no practice whatsoever. This is not the content for people who play like that. And that is fine.

Toxic_Hemlock

festegios wrote: »

Please don’t make it easier. Especially before console even have a chance to try it.

This is like saying "don't make my escargot less salty before I have had a change to eat it"

Although you may know how combat in the rest of the game works and may in fact be a godling.
You haven't seen just what EA has in store for you, having not played it, you don't know what to expect there.

Besides the only "made easier" many of us want would be done is to Arc 1 only.

Edit: need my nap again

Tandor

jaws343 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

And I contend that content flagged as a challenge shouldn't be balanced around players who struggle in overland content.

And arc 1 being sneeze and dead easy devalues the overall rewards for the content. Given you could then just mindlessly farm arc 1 at public dungeon level and get currency and rewards. It just becomes another public dungeon loop. Which can't be anywhere close to the actual intent of the content, which is to provide a challenge to players, not a reward button to press at will.

Content that is advertised as being for everyone should have at least the first level beatable by most players. Whatever difficulty that happens to be should be determined by stats. Endless Archive is not exclusively veteran content nor are the rewards intended to be gated to only veterans.

Braffin wrote: »

I remember people complaining about the gap in difficulty between normal and veteran for almost as long as this game exists. And I indeed agree. I've seen countless times how challenging the jump into veteran content can be. EA is a much more fluid experience, allowing more players than ever before to get the feel of progression (I mean, there is absolutely no shame in being happy about beating Arc 1 the first time. It's simply the feeling of having beaten something, you couldn't before. Highly-skilled players have to run into much further Arcs for the same experience. Everything else is the same.). That's absolutely something zos should preserve.

I agree. I actually wanted them to add a solo place to work on progressing as a player better for a long time. I originally envisioned as a training ground rather than anything remotely like the endless archive. But, I think some place you can go in solo and learn to play is a great benefit to the community. Because when you're by yourself, the negative social pressure from not being good (even when people are being nice about it!) isn't there. And also, you don't get false information about how good you're doing based off someone else's performance.

And I'll say it again, "everyone" is an extremely misleading twist on the release of this content. It has clearly been meant as being available, as base game content, to everyone. That has zero to do with difficulty.

By the logic presented as being doable by everyone, arc 1 might as well be a tutorial that a level 1 player can kite through. Which is ridiculous. This content is clearly meant to be a challenge, above overland content, balanced around two players.

The marketing email I received the other day specifically stated that adventurers "can choose to go at it solo or team up with a fellow player or Companion to complete." I take that to mean complete Arc 1. That's enough to draw players in, which should be the main purpose of the first part of any game content, after that it's down to skill and RNG etc, but if it's advertised for solo or duo and there are separate leaderboards for solo and duo then it should be balanced around both playstyles.

So you really think that the content saying the word complete entitles you to a completion of the content?

That is ridiculous. The clear intent with that statement is that the content is accessible by duos, solos, or with companion. It isn't a guarantee of completion. Like seriously, absolutely a ridiculous extrapolation.

Makes you really wonder why ZOS keeps coms with the playerbase at a minimum...

Of course I don't, I specifically said "I take that to mean complete Arc 1" and then I explained why.

Jammy420

evan302 wrote: »

As someone who has only dipped their toe into this content once and come to the conclusion that I'm not ready for it yet, I can see two major issues.
-The start of EA is over-tuned for a lot of players
-EA requires experienced and well-geared players to waste a lot of time before they reach challenging content.

Clearly a blanket nerf would exacerbate the issues for the second group and probably cause a lot of resentment.
While leaving things as they are will probably mean EA remains niche content for the few.
Finding a way to accommodate casual players without ruining the fun for more skilled players would be a bonus, especially since so many of the rewards seem to be things that casual players are more likely to want.

The only other game I've played with a similar dungeon started everyone off at a level where the difficulty was trivial but then allowed players to jump straight to the more challenging levels after they had played through those early levels once.

To discourage players from only doing the low levels, rewards were scaled. Low levels gave pets, glamour and tokens to buy a mount, but gear, more prestigious mounts and trophies were only achievable by doing the harder content.
Maybe something similar could work here. Casual players could stick with the lower arcs until they are ready to move on, while the more experienced players could go straight to content they enjoy without having to one-shot a load of trash and trivial bosses first.

I also think some way for players to save progress would be very helpful, as the way EA is at the moment, does not encourage healthy game-play.

How is it overtuned? My unleveled, white gear wearing companion at lvl 39 cleared the first few levels alone nearly. I could essentially sleep through it.

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

The difficulty is ridiculous...

But I have just been told not to go there by another player so I won't ...more content that isn't for me just what I always wanted.

The gatekeeping in this game is what turns a lot of us off... yes you please a few hyper-competitives...but you lose Joe average and that I would imagine is where most of your profits are made.

I would be willing to bet joe average would like some memorable content. Do not insult the average player base by saying the first arch is too difficult for them / us.

Requiring practice isnt gate keeping.