Please fix Endless Archive difficulty

Pelanora · November 2023

I struggle to believe a casual with 900 odd cp and a companion can't do a wb. Especially if they dk or arcanist.

Is just a matter of time.

I know many me included can't get the skills up quickly like those who start and one month later are running vet mode. Which baffles me but hey. But in the end.... time teaches all?

LikiLoki · November 2023

The archive was positioned as content that will interest players of all directions and styles of the game: battles for PVE, riddles and quests for casual players. But the final product is only available for pve veterans, the rest of the players have only seen another arena. How many people go to single arenas? A small percentage. If nothing changes, then only a small number of people will enter this arena.

Sirona_Starr · November 2023

Cayr wrote: »

Hard disagree. Arc 1 is extremely easy. I do most of my dailies on my tank with only some purple crafted gear sets and some CP switched around and even I can manage. It takes a bit more time doing little DPS, but I don't find it's too difficult if you just have a self-heal. On an actual DD character with even a half-decent gear setup, most adds on Arc 1 pretty much die to 2 attacks. The difficulty is fine as is - Arc 1 is easy enough to complete for the daily, further arcs will progressively challenge you more. If you can't manage to clear Arc 1, sorry, but that sounds like an issue with your setup or maybe you're expecting no resistance from content at all. That's not a reason to ruin it for the rest of the playerbase.

This is why everything in the game has multiple difficulty levels - the content has to be accessible, which it is very much so on Normal, and in EA, Arc 1. Difficulty levels or further arcs are not different content, and they don't have to be able to be completed without any effort. Difficulty levels are there to be, you know...more difficult. That's kind of the point. If you want to do the more difficult content, complaining that the difficulties should be made easier for you is not the way to go.

With 2 players (not tried solo past Arc 1 for the daily), the difficulty progression feels spot on. ZOS got it actually pretty perfect. It ramps up in a very consistent manner and is decently challenging in the later arcs. I just really-really wish they would a) enable a way to save progress like it is in VH and MA when you port out and back in, and just pick up where you left off; b) maybe find a way to enable skipping some of the earlier arcs if wanted. Not sure if that would work given the scoring being a thing, but something to consider for sure.

Ok, I get that you are an awesome player, and congrats on that, absolutely

I am for a vet and a normal version of the archive. You are playing vet atm, and all your comments support this.
I have tried on various different builds to clear the first arc, and cannot do so solo. I'm not a newb, I'm also not a top tier player. I've tried on various different classes, pvp and pve builds. Throwing DLC bosses in, or a tiny platform is not "normal." Most players cannot clear a dlc dungeon on normal solo.

The happy medium is vet/normal with normal being normal, not dlc solo this on normal. You get your awesome builds/dps/skills to complete, and those who just are not top tier also get to complete.

I'd like to complete a daily just once solo. If that is asking to much for normal then, I would like a choice as a person who subs if I want my sub money to go to archive, which, is seeminly not possible (much like dlc dungeons solo) OR a frigging zone dlc.

I don't give a fridge about leaderboards, I'd just like to be able to complete a daily solo.

Thank you

Sirona_Starr · November 2023

Pelanora wrote: »

LikiLoki wrote: »

I can't even pass the first round. I am a simple player who enjoys quests. There are a lot of people like me. This archive is not suitable for us.

Nope. But that has to be OK too. If you enjoy quests then that's your thing and EA just is not. And that's OK too.

It's NOT ok if you sub, and lose a dlc zone with this. As a person who subs used to be 2 dlc dungeons that were/are rarely run. Now it's sub but get absolutely nothing for it. Top tier players get all the benefits. That is NOT right.

Tandor · November 2023

Pelanora wrote: »

I struggle to believe a casual with 900 odd cp and a companion can't do a wb. Especially if they dk or arcanist.

Is just a matter of time.

I know many me included can't get the skills up quickly like those who start and one month later are running vet mode. Which baffles me but hey. But in the end.... time teaches all?

What makes you think that every casual who wants to do some of the EA has any cp, let alone 900?

joergino · November 2023

Just delete this crap from the game.

Sirona_Starr · November 2023

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Please don't touch the difficulty. People need to learn how to play their class instead of crying. Seriously. This game has already way too little challenging content.

Endless Archive should actually become harder way faster and offer bigger rewards. Now it is kinda boring and time consuming

Then, perhaps something like this should be a chapter you can purchase. I sub. I got NOTHING for my sub this year. My money is as good as yours, even if I am not as good a player as you. Up until this year I knew and accepted that the two dlc bits of the sub was something that would not be in my purvue aside from running one on normal once or twice. Now I get this archive which is worse than a dlc dungeon in terms of my level of subbing.

Maybe all the filthy casuals (which I am not) should stop subbing until we get something to enjoy ourselves.

spartaxoxo · November 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It is a little bit about improving. I understand there are some things people can't help like age, disability, internet connection, available play time, etc etc. But, gear that can help someone solo a world boss is available right at the guild traders and through crafting.

Age and disability are the main problem in my case, but that's not the point.

Most casual players can't solo a world boss (or many dungeon bosses for that matter) even in the basegame areas for a variety of reasons. If an activity like EA includes them, it shouldn't be advertised as "content for everyone".

And no, I don't want EA to be nerfed. It's no content for me and that's fine, my only gripe is with the way it was originally advertised.

Most casual players can solo a base game world boss. It's rare I see call for helps with those, while I see them frequently in DLC. Most people do the undaunted event by soloing or grabbing a friend to do fungal grotto.

I think that solo fungal grotto and base game world bosses are about where most people tap out power wise, but I don't think they do less than that.

I can't speak to the difficulty of EA and if it's appropriately tuned because I can't run it yet. Perhaps it's harder than it should be. But, base game world bosses difficulty sounds to me like they tried to accommodate most casuals.

DUTCH_REAPER · November 2023

My wife and I are about to duo this sucker again (and so help me if Spectrum craps out on us again I will burn their business to the ground) hopefully with no disconnects because we got to arc 5 and we’re rolling great. Until ISP Boss wrecked us. We will stream it in an hour on Twitch.

jaws343 · November 2023

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

LikiLoki wrote: »

I can't even pass the first round. I am a simple player who enjoys quests. There are a lot of people like me. This archive is not suitable for us.

Nope. But that has to be OK too. If you enjoy quests then that's your thing and EA just is not. And that's OK too.

It's NOT ok if you sub, and lose a dlc zone with this. As a person who subs used to be 2 dlc dungeons that were/are rarely run. Now it's sub but get absolutely nothing for it. Top tier players get all the benefits. That is NOT right.

But you didn't lose a dlc zone to this. They aren't doing 4th quarter dlcs anymore. With or without EA.

Jaimeh · November 2023

The trash stages in Arc 1 are comparable to normal number II dungeons; the boss rounds are a bit of a gamble, but even the hardest ones can be dealt with easily if you know their mechanics, because they don't hit hard in the first arc. Also, you can take your time in trash fights and leave an add alive to build ulti before bosses. You can even do that between the three trash stages, just take your time to replenish resources. This ulti can be a barrier for example, to give you extra shielding if you need it (knowing which part of the fight to use the shield is also a good thing). The treasure chests sometimes award extra buffs, you can use one per cycle (and you can also buy more from the vendors). You can reach arc 4 with less than 20k dps as a solo player, but you need to have a proper build, and environmental awareness. After a point, it becomes a mitigation/sustain mini-game. But arc 1 is in a really good place difficulty-wise, and I think the more the players become familiar with the design and mechanics of the archive, they will clear it much more easily. It's the same thing every time new content is released, you need to learn it and build for it properly, but they have struck a good balance as far as arc 1 is concerned.

Braffin · November 2023

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Please don't touch the difficulty. People need to learn how to play their class instead of crying. Seriously. This game has already way too little challenging content.

Endless Archive should actually become harder way faster and offer bigger rewards. Now it is kinda boring and time consuming

Then, perhaps something like this should be a chapter you can purchase. I sub. I got NOTHING for my sub this year. My money is as good as yours, even if I am not as good a player as you. Up until this year I knew and accepted that the two dlc bits of the sub was something that would not be in my purvue aside from running one on normal once or twice. Now I get this archive which is worse than a dlc dungeon in terms of my level of subbing.

Maybe all the filthy casuals (which I am not) should stop subbing until we get something to enjoy ourselves.

EA is a f2p-activity. You don't have to sub to do it, so subscribers loose exactly nothing.

AzuraFan · November 2023

So I finally gave the EA a try tonight. I had some free time and figured I'd take a look. I lost my 3 lives on the first arc boss (some warrior that throws crystals all over the place).

I'm willing to learn and improve, but NOT if it's going to take me 35-45 mins to get to that boss every time. I only have so much time to play. So until there's some way provided to get players to where they left off quickly, I won't be spending any more time in the EA.

I did have fun until I got there, though. But I found that the difficulty for me went up from "fun" to "impossible" when I hit that first arc boss. That feels like poor design to me.

I'm hoping to see the ability to set a difficulty level upon entry and a way to pick up where I left off.

(Note that I did this using my main, who I play purely for fun, so I was using a build that isn't on any websites lol. I use what's fun, not what makes sense. Given that, I was pleasantly surprised that the first arc was fun and didn't offer much of a challenge until I hit the end boss, where the challenge, like I said, went from "a little" to "are you freaking kidding me." If they can ramp up the difficulty in a more sane way and allow the player to choose an overall difficulty level on entry, I could see myself spending a lot of time in the EA. But not in its present form.)

(By first arc boss I mean the final boss for the first arc, not the first boss in the first arc.)

Kendaric · November 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It is a little bit about improving. I understand there are some things people can't help like age, disability, internet connection, available play time, etc etc. But, gear that can help someone solo a world boss is available right at the guild traders and through crafting.

Age and disability are the main problem in my case, but that's not the point.

Most casual players can't solo a world boss (or many dungeon bosses for that matter) even in the basegame areas for a variety of reasons. If an activity like EA includes them, it shouldn't be advertised as "content for everyone".

And no, I don't want EA to be nerfed. It's no content for me and that's fine, my only gripe is with the way it was originally advertised.

Most casual players can solo a base game world boss. It's rare I see call for helps with those, while I see them frequently in DLC. Most people do the undaunted event by soloing or grabbing a friend to do fungal grotto.

I think that solo fungal grotto and base game world bosses are about where most people tap out power wise, but I don't think they do less than that.

I can't speak to the difficulty of EA and if it's appropriately tuned because I can't run it yet. Perhaps it's harder than it should be. But, base game world bosses difficulty sounds to me like they tried to accommodate most casuals.

It seems our definition of "casuals" differs. I'd not consider anyone who can solo a world boss in any way a casual player.

As for Fungal Grotto... even I can solo that with a companion once I get to 400-500 CP again, but world bosses except maybe Limbscather? Not a chance. I get utterly wrecked, I simply lack the reflexes and as a result the mobility to do it.

And yes, I do use appropriate crafted or world set gear, just no dungeon/trial sets as I stay away from group stuff.

Pelanora · November 2023

Tandor wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I struggle to believe a casual with 900 odd cp and a companion can't do a wb. Especially if they dk or arcanist.

Is just a matter of time.

I know many me included can't get the skills up quickly like those who start and one month later are running vet mode. Which baffles me but hey. But in the end.... time teaches all?

What makes you think that every casual who wants to do some of the EA has any cp, let alone 900?

Then theyre not casual so much as new. Cp comes from doing anything, you can't help but aquire it. Very new players may struggle in ea yes. Unless they dk or arcanist.

Zyaedra · November 2023

AzuraFan wrote: »

...I'm willing to learn and improve, but NOT if it's going to take me 35-45 mins to get to that boss every time. I only have so much time to play. So until there's some way provided to get players to where they left off quickly, I won't be spending any more time in the EA.

I did have fun until I got there, though. But I found that the difficulty for me went up from "fun" to "impossible" when I hit that first arc boss. That feels like poor design to me.

I am just curious... if you weren't forced out after the 3 threads were gone, would you have continued to try to beat the arc 1 boss?

Contraptions · November 2023

I tried EA once, spent about 30-40 mins to beat arc 1 and got 1500 currency for my efforts. Was not impressed at all. Unless they significantly up the rewards I don't think I'll bother.

As for difficulty, the only real spike was the arc boss Thoat which hits significantly harder than anything else in there. I'm a an experienced player who has done most of the dungeons and trials in this game on vet so the adjusted bosses weren't too bad either since I kinda knew the mechanics already.

I have a strange feeling that EA is gonna get stealth nerfed over time just like how Bastion Nymic was secretly adjusted when U40 came out. It's just a hunch. So those putting off doing it now might have an easier time in future.

prof-dracko · November 2023

Contraptions wrote: »

I have a strange feeling that EA is gonna get stealth nerfed over time just like how Bastion Nymic was secretly adjusted when U40 came out. It's just a hunch. So those putting off doing it now might have an easier time in future.

First I'm hearing about this. What changed?

AzuraFan · November 2023

Zyaedra wrote: »

I am just curious... if you weren't forced out after the 3 threads were gone, would you have continued to try to beat the arc 1 boss?

Not immediately, because it was obvious my build wasn't going to work and I didn't know the boss mechanics. So I would do some research regarding all that and then go back in and try again. But of course, I'd have to fight my way to the end of the arc again to try, and if I was still having problems and needed to do more tweaking (or even switch to one of my alts and give them a try, though I play them so little I always have to relearn how to play them before I try anything serious with them), I'd obviously be starting from the beginning again.

The only reason I would try a boss again and again and again without exiting is if I was very close to beating it. So let's say I start to understand the mechanics as I'm fighting it, or I've almost killed it but then die, then I'd try again right away. But that wasn't the case for me tonight. There was no way tweaking or mixing things up would do it. I'd never seen this boss before and was clearly outclassed. It doesn't help that companions and pets go down almost immediately and there's no way to mitigate that.

Contraptions · November 2023

prof-dracko wrote: »

Contraptions wrote: »

I have a strange feeling that EA is gonna get stealth nerfed over time just like how Bastion Nymic was secretly adjusted when U40 came out. It's just a hunch. So those putting off doing it now might have an easier time in future.

First I'm hearing about this. What changed?

It's subtle but some boss and mob attacks got their damage reduced so there's less spike damage overall. Sometimes it's small, like the Noxious Herald's breath going down from 20k to about 16k. Other times it's larger like the Noxious Herald's poison ring AOE going from a one shot to about 4k. I think it's mostly bosses and beefier mobs that got changed a bit.

Elvenheart · November 2023

Contraptions wrote: »

I have a strange feeling that EA is gonna get stealth nerfed over time just like how Bastion Nymic was secretly adjusted when U40 came out.

What was changed in Bastion Nymic?

Me, on PTS I tried EA twice with what I thought would be my best char for EA, a heavy attack magsorc with Alessian heavy gear, Oakensoul, and I think Sergeants. I could not get past some of the random bosses, let alone make it to the end! I despaired of ever being able to even do the daily or get enough currency for anything. On live I tried it again with my stamina Arcanist wearing Deadly Strikes, Oakensoul, and something else I can’t remember and not only did I complete Arc 1 getting to experience Tho'at Replicanum, heartened by my victory I tried Arc 2 and AGAIN made it all the way to Tho’at (even facing a Marauder along the way) where I finally lost my third thread, alas. My biggest problems at the end of Arc 2 were 1) running out of threads while trying to figure out the mechanics, and 2) being so tired from playing up to that point. I’m for some type of save feature that lets you start at the beginning of whatever Arc you can make it to, and I wish the three thread concept would just go away.

Araneae6537 · November 2023

Please don’t make Endless Archives boringly easy! It’s really fine as is once the bugs are fixed. Maybe a checkpoint could be earned bought for those who wish it? I have no strong opinions on that.

Bosses certainly vary in difficulty, so maybe those finding it too challenging got more difficult bosses early on? But come on, I went in there on my crafter — nightblade using bow and daggers (and NOT permaglow focus) and the Hunding’s Rage, Briarheart, and Selene monster helm I’ve been using forever, with less than 25k health even with food, not at all built for doing this, along with level 17 Sharp-as-Night — and got to the fourth boss in the first arc, which is better than I was expecting after everything I’ve read. (I tried EA on my crafter because on of my add-ons was taking forever to update data or something and switching characters would have restarted the process.)

I look forward to playing it more this weekend, and with a build meant to deal and sustain damage! Even if I never got further on EA, I could save up for some cool furnishings, but I welcome the challenge and am confident that I will improve!

Toxic_Hemlock · November 2023

Pelanora wrote: »

OK so i can't agree with that. Delves stop being hard at idk level 40/0? Noone 50/160 can say a delve is hard. Even with shite gear.

New delves are in the new content every year. This needs to start higher than that. And i think it's still less than craglorn group delves.

I have to answer this. It seems there is a HUGE disconnect with the player base in just what they want out of the game.

Me, I want to just have fun. Defeating npcs and collecting treasure helps me to relax.
Others, like yourself, want a challenge. That in itself is fine, but until they can tell us what EA was intended to do, we will continue to be at loggerheads over difficulty.

For now I will just skip it, no real loss, but I would have preferred the aforementioned easy, gradual, ascent into harder content.

BTW I have only ever stepped foot in craglorn a few times for surveys as challenging myself is not what I play this game for.

Pelanora · November 2023

Through almost no effort of my own, really, i can now one-shot the npcs in delves. So id prefer not to do that in the EA for very long. If at all. Because i get new delves with new content if i feel like doing that.

This is what I'm saying, time alone, in the game, not being all sweaty, means you need something a little more....

Galeriano · November 2023

Lugaldu wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

What do You mean by saying "not everyone can play this thing"? Everyone can enter and play there solo which is what was promised. It was never promised that everyone will be able to venture far into it. Initial stages were designed for players with lesser skill but there is also a limit to how low You can set difficulty without making it so easy it becomes boring even for less experienced people.

Not offering different difficulty levels is an absolutely ridiculous design decision. This means that players are bound to become frustrated - vet players find it boring because it's too easy, and inexperienced players can't get through any of the gameplay at all.

What would be the point to offer different difficulty levels in a content that by design have progressive difficulty? It's not the same type of content like dungeons , trials or even preexisting arenas so stop treating it as such.

I mean, in any good old strategy game the difficulty increases with each level, but you still have the option to change the general difficulty...

News flash, ESO is not some "good old strategy game". It's an MMO RPG.

Yes and...? In ESO too, the difficulty increases in every dungeon and the player has the choice between different difficulties... so, I have no idea what you want to tell me here.

Like I've already said Endless Archive is not like "every dungeon" so don't treat it as such. It's a different type of content. If ZoS wanted more dungeon like content in the game they could add another dungeon pack with 2 new dungeons. Instead they added something new and You are complainig it doesn't behave like old content. Well guess what by the design it shouldn't.

Contraptions · November 2023

Elvenheart wrote: »

Contraptions wrote: »

I have a strange feeling that EA is gonna get stealth nerfed over time just like how Bastion Nymic was secretly adjusted when U40 came out.

What was changed in Bastion Nymic?

As mentioned above it's just reductions in mob damage for select mobs and bosses so there's less one shots or damage spikes.

spartaxoxo · November 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Please don't touch the difficulty. People need to learn how to play their class instead of crying. Seriously. This game has already way too little challenging content.

Endless Archive should actually become harder way faster and offer bigger rewards. Now it is kinda boring and time consuming

Then, perhaps something like this should be a chapter you can purchase. I sub. I got NOTHING for my sub this year. My money is as good as yours, even if I am not as good a player as you. Up until this year I knew and accepted that the two dlc bits of the sub was something that would not be in my purvue aside from running one on normal once or twice. Now I get this archive which is worse than a dlc dungeon in terms of my level of subbing.

Maybe all the filthy casuals (which I am not) should stop subbing until we get something to enjoy ourselves.

EA is a f2p-activity. You don't have to sub to do it, so subscribers loose exactly nothing.

They dropped 2 DLCs and gave out a base game system instead. So, ESO+ is down to a single new dlc added each year.

spartaxoxo · November 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It is a little bit about improving. I understand there are some things people can't help like age, disability, internet connection, available play time, etc etc. But, gear that can help someone solo a world boss is available right at the guild traders and through crafting.

Age and disability are the main problem in my case, but that's not the point.

Most casual players can't solo a world boss (or many dungeon bosses for that matter) even in the basegame areas for a variety of reasons. If an activity like EA includes them, it shouldn't be advertised as "content for everyone".

And no, I don't want EA to be nerfed. It's no content for me and that's fine, my only gripe is with the way it was originally advertised.

Most casual players can solo a base game world boss. It's rare I see call for helps with those, while I see them frequently in DLC. Most people do the undaunted event by soloing or grabbing a friend to do fungal grotto.

I think that solo fungal grotto and base game world bosses are about where most people tap out power wise, but I don't think they do less than that.

I can't speak to the difficulty of EA and if it's appropriately tuned because I can't run it yet. Perhaps it's harder than it should be. But, base game world bosses difficulty sounds to me like they tried to accommodate most casuals.

It seems our definition of "casuals" differs. I'd not consider anyone who can solo a world boss in any way a casual player.

As for Fungal Grotto... even I can solo that with a companion once I get to 400-500 CP again, but world bosses except maybe Limbscather? Not a chance. I get utterly wrecked, I simply lack the reflexes and as a result the mobility to do it.

And yes, I do use appropriate crafted or world set gear, just no dungeon/trial sets as I stay away from group stuff.

Most of the casuals I have seen can do the normal base game dungeons, and the base game world bosses with ease. But they take longer and/or struggle with things like trials, vet mode content, and normal mode dlc dungeons. So, they tend to just ignore that content unless they want something in particular from it. So, that's personally what I would consider around the power level of the average player.

LouisaB75 · November 2023

To whoever posted about the video with the boss mechanics ... THANK YOU! I watched it all and saw a lot of bosses I either have not faced before or very rarely.

Was also pleased to see that none of the bosses I had had trouble with were described as easy. In fact one I had got past was described as one of the hardest. Though presumably toned down for arc 1.

The video is nearly 2 hours long but it was very informative, and the streamer appreciated that many players will be facing bosses they are not familiar with and will find it tough.

On my run through of arc 1 last night the fourth cycle boss was one I had seen purely on the video and thanks to that I made it past to Tho'at with all my threads, plus a rebirth verse which was nicely timed.

Unfortunately I failed to Tho'at on all attempts but think I was improving each time.

Was too late to run it all again though so will be trying again over the weekend. I think with research and practice I should manage it. But it does seem very tough for arc 1.

My recommendation would be to make arc 1 (or all of them even) shorter. 3 cycles for example. That way those who find it easy can clear it quicker to get to the hard stuff and those who are struggling can at least make more attempts in what can often be limited play time.

Elsonso · November 2023

Firstmep wrote: »

I dont know how people cant pass the first arc, the mobs have the same hp and damage as overland quest mobs.

The first Arc includes the first Arc boss. That boss is not like any overland quest boss or the public dungeon bosses. The closest comparison will be one of the harder public dungeon group bosses or world bosses. Those bosses will probably be a little easier than the Arc boss.

Given the delta between the first Arc boss and the Cycle boss before it, I am pretty sure that the intention of the Arc boss is to prevent anyone who just does overland content from completing the daily quest.