Necrom World Bosses are way too difficult

SilverBride · June 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

Every poll on here about overland had an overwhelming majority say the game is way too easy.

The vote is even on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583436/what-type-of-overland-would-you-prefer/p1

The vote is overwhelming in favor of leaving overland just as it is on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583551/another-poll-on-overland-difficulty-but-with-more-options

SilverBride · June 2023

Stamicka wrote: »

Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.

It is my opinion that the Necrom World Bosses are too difficult for the average player and I have heard others say that this is the reason they aren't joining groups for them.

To summarize:

It has been consistently difficult to find groups for these World Bosses. This is very unusual for this early in a new chapter.
Players have stated the difficulty as the reason they don't join groups for them.
World Bosses should not be soloable so telling a player to get better so they can solo them isn't a solution.
World Bosses and other group content such as Harrowstorms should scale to the number of players engaging them so the content can be completed with a smaller group.

thedoodle_90 · June 2023

Its difficult to find people because the phasing is wonky. I was with a group and couldnt even see them. I also duoed/trioed most of these bosses and I suck my highest dps is like 20k You can litterally kill these with there people spamming heavy attacks because you can revive unlimited times if you die...

kind_hero · June 2023

From my experience, only the arcanist world boss is more difficult, since I died the most there, probably it should be tweaked a bit, but the rest are similar to other DLCs.

IMO companions should scale a bit more for fights against world bosses, because in these situations they are almost useless. I have a maxed out Isobel in a tank role, with epic gear, and she doesn't hold much against world bosses, even when there are other players around.

Jammy420 · June 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

They simply ignore this facts and try to frame it according to their personal liking, while pretending to lean on data which they refuse to publish.

Some people are apparently not interested in a positive solution for anyone except themselves.

Luckily zos is starting to listen to the real playerbase and is acting accordingly. We already see first steps in the right direction with Necrom and I'm quite sure more will follow.

We'll see, won't we?

If ESO becomes too difficult for me in activities I enjoy like questing/story, I'll simply leave the game. Simple as that.

If zos keeps the game at increased difficulty, my wife and I are more likely to pay and play more, some with most mmo players.

Look, this game is an MMO, and it should be balanced as that. They can see that numbers have consistantly gone down, and they can see that the majority of people think its too easy. The venn diagram of people leaving and the game being too easy is clear.

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

Not really, people are dying to stupidity. You don't reward that. These bosses have simple mechanics. Learn the mechanics.

Is it worth learning the mechanics, though? Is this content that people are going to really repeat, or is it content that they just need to overcome a handful of times, or fewer, and then they never have to think about it again?

Nerfing content based on people not learning mechanics is not a good precedent to set in a game. It dumbs the game down to the point I could probably teach one of my cats to play it.

Whether they repeat it, or not, should not be the issue here. The fact people are calling for nerf because it is too difficult, due to the fact they won't learn mechanics, is the issue. Don't call for things to be nerfed because of a lack of observational skills and lateral thinking.

It is not as though they are even difficult mechanics. One of which is literally, stand on a circle.....

If people are not repeating content, I do think that is an issue. Is it in the best interests of the game to leave it essentially abandoned for stretches of time? Is this just time spent by the development team that is largely wasted effort?

I am sure that ZOS keeps statistics about how long world bosses stand around before getting taken down, how long dolmens sit idle before someone comes along, and all that. Would be cool, and probably very disappointing, to see those numbers.

Nerfing content is easy for them. Drop the numbers and the engagement rates will go up as the difficulty matches what a larger number of players are looking for.

Adding incentive to learn mechanics is something that seems reserved for dungeons and trials, not world bosses. Certainly, they could do that. It is much more work, and impacts a larger part of the game than just world bosses.

Easy mode for ZOS is to just nerf and move on.

As for "stand on a circle"... in my experience, it is hard to get players to NOT stand in a circle. Telling them to stand in a circle seems like it should be default mode for many players.

Lots of people have stopped doing world bosses for 2 reasons.

Too easy
Horrible Rewards

Make them more difficult like these, and increase quality of rewards, and players like the ones who say the game is too easy, will be more inclined to do that content.

I am one of those who think that "I want easy" so outnumbers "I want hard" that if everyone who wanted it easy left the game, this place would be shuttered before the end of the year.

Of course, ZOS is the only one who really knows, and that is not something they are willing to share, I am sure.

I will agree that rewards [snip]. ZOS is very stingy in this respect. We risk our lives daily, figuratively speaking, for a few gold coins and some crusty armor we don't care about.

The problem I see with the dichotomy easy/hard is the lack of underlying definition of this terms.

What's easy content? When does content get hard?

This questions can only be answered out of personal experience and therefore the validity of the resulting answers are limited to a subjective opinion. It's simply not possible to deduce a general truth out of this data.

What's possible is to collect as many personal opinions about this topic as possible and draw a conclusion out of this data.

I'm sure zos is already doing this, and we got increased difficulty with Necrom as well as the promise of an "endless dungeon" in Q4 to adress this topic. That's a clear indicator, that a significant amount of the playerbase isn't happy with actual difficulty and demanding more engaging encounters.

This matches also my observations in this forums, as every poll results in a majority voting for more (optional) difficulty, as well as the amount of posters which are fine with higher difficulty is exeedingly higher than posters which are calling for content nerfs.

Again, on point.

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Every poll on here about overland had an overwhelming majority say the game is way too easy.

The vote is even on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583436/what-type-of-overland-would-you-prefer/p1

The vote is overwhelming in favor of leaving overland just as it is on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583551/another-poll-on-overland-difficulty-but-with-more-options

both of those polls offer so many options , it is pretty difficult to draw ANY conclusion, plus both hardly got any votes and are so far down in the forums hardly anyone would vote, and they have been closed so no one really had any incentive to vote on them. On the big threads with 2 options, it is not in favor of keeping the same and or easier. Quite the contrary.

All the other 2 option polls of " is it too easy or not " have overwhelmingly been on the " too easy " side.

Overland has been largely left alone up until now, and every single expansion less and less people play them. There are multiple reasons for that, but as far as the major simple polls show, and zos' nod to the a little more difficult crowd say otherwise.

SilverBride wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.

It is my opinion that the Necrom World Bosses are too difficult for the average player and I have heard others say that this is the reason they aren't joining groups for them.

To summarize:
It has been consistently difficult to find groups for these World Bosses. This is very unusual for this early in a new chapter.

Players have stated the difficulty as the reason they don't join groups for them.

World Bosses should not be soloable so telling a player to get better so they can solo them isn't a solution.

World Bosses and other group content such as Harrowstorms should scale to the number of players engaging them so the content can be completed with a smaller group.

Scaling it anymore would exaserbate the problem of people not practicing and improving over time. Stop trying to nerf everything that is even remotely a challenge.

Elsonso · June 2023

Braffin wrote: »

I'm sure zos is already doing this, and we got increased difficulty with Necrom as well as the promise of an "endless dungeon" in Q4 to adress this topic. That's a clear indicator, that a significant amount of the playerbase isn't happy with actual difficulty and demanding more engaging encounters.

This matches also my observations in this forums, as every poll results in a majority voting for more (optional) difficulty, as well as the amount of posters which are fine with higher difficulty is exeedingly higher than posters which are calling for content nerfs.

I couple things... first, my impression of the typical "above-average" player is that they don't touch world bosses unless they have support from other people. They will stand there until they die of boredom waiting for that to happen because if they aggro the world boss, they will be resurrecting in a minute or so. In the end, I think it means that they mainly ignore world bosses unless they happen to come across one being actively attacked, and then they might toss in.

Honestly, I think that the Necrom world boss content is mainly for the "one percenters" and that the other 99% of the players aren't serious enough about world boss content to do all 6 of them. Of course, only ZOS has the real numbers, but if it is even something that rounds up to 10%, I would be shocked. I'm not trying to belittle anyone or make someone more or less important, just stating what I think the content consumption is across players of this game.

Of course, it could be that the "one percenters" are the only ones left playing the game and the other 99% are playing something else.

Second, did ZOS actually say that they made the Necrom world bosses harder, or is that just what the forum is saying? I don't recall them formally saying anything like that, but I could have missed it. ZOS has "standards" for bosses that they try to meet, so my expectation is that if they changed it up for Necrom, it would have been noteworthy. I recall seeing no such note.

In my pass through Necrom, I thought they were harder, but on review, I don't think they are harder so much as different. I fully expect that they will be described as "faceroll" before the end of the summer as people learn the mechanics and claim to be able to defeat them with nothing more than their thumb. While blindfolded. With their computer turned off.

Well, maybe not exactly like that... but "easy".

jaws343 · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.

It is my opinion that the Necrom World Bosses are too difficult for the average player and I have heard others say that this is the reason they aren't joining groups for them.

To summarize:
It has been consistently difficult to find groups for these World Bosses. This is very unusual for this early in a new chapter.

Players have stated the difficulty as the reason they don't join groups for them.

World Bosses should not be soloable so telling a player to get better so they can solo them isn't a solution.

World Bosses and other group content such as Harrowstorms should scale to the number of players engaging them so the content can be completed with a smaller group.

Hasn't dropped on console yet, but I question your first point here. Is it actually unusual for similar chapters with added classes or features? I remember very few people showing up to Elswyr and Morrowind WBs initially, because they were all off leveling their new class. Even Blackwood and High Isle WBs were a bit rough as people were off power leveling their new companions.

I just think people are conflating how well WBs in the DLC zones go, for example Galen and Deadlands, where players swarm them as there are usually no corresponding major things to do that take you out of the zone. Even Western Skyrim vs The Reach had this dichotomy, where Western Skyrim WBs were more difficult to get people to do compared to The Reach, because people were exploring the antiquity system.

Snamyap · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.

It is my opinion that the Necrom World Bosses are too difficult for the average player and I have heard others say that this is the reason they aren't joining groups for them.

To summarize:
It has been consistently difficult to find groups for these World Bosses. This is very unusual for this early in a new chapter.

Players have stated the difficulty as the reason they don't join groups for them.

World Bosses should not be soloable so telling a player to get better so they can solo them isn't a solution.

World Bosses and other group content such as Harrowstorms should scale to the number of players engaging them so the content can be completed with a smaller group.

So, you want them to be easier, but not soloable? How exactly do you see this when there are already people that can solo them and at the same time people that find them to hard? You want them scaled up ridiculously high when only one person engages and then drop lower when more people engage and then harder after a certain number?
Also, you don't have to become better at the game, you probably just need a better build. I'm nearing 50, I don't have lightning reflexes, and I can beat most WB in a crafted set combined with a base game dungeon set. It's not rocket science, just move out of stupid, and heal up when you do get hit.

Braffin · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Every poll on here about overland had an overwhelming majority say the game is way too easy.

The vote is even on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583436/what-type-of-overland-would-you-prefer/p1

The vote is overwhelming in favor of leaving overland just as it is on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583551/another-poll-on-overland-difficulty-but-with-more-options

The second poll delivers no useable results, due to lack of participation (36 votes in total).

The first poll does indeed show an even result, regarding the question if overland should stay the same or get more difficult. That's why nobody is demanding a "forced veteran overland", so both sides may have fun in this game.

On a sidenote: The relevant poll is quite outdated, as zos implemented various possibilities for players to buff themselves without the need to increase player skill accordingly to guarantee better accessibility. Especially oakensoul comes to mind. That's why the opinion of the playerbase on this topic may have shifted.

A more recent poll, which also has the advantage of being restricted to world bosses (which are intended as group content since launch), shows, that 73% out of 187 participants oppose your claim of nerfing the WBs in question:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/636254/are-the-worldbosses-published-with-necrom-too-hard-for-the-average-player-and-need-to-be-nerfed/p1

While of course all players are allowed to limit themselves by refusing to use any help the game provides (gear options or using guilds for grouping for example), this doesn't justify the demand for content nerfs, affecting the whole playerbase.

Especially not, if a clear majority opposes this claim, which is the case till proof is delivered showing the opposite.

AzuraFan · June 2023

Like others have said, I think it's more an issue that there aren't (or soon won't be) other players around, so players who don't get the bosses done soon or during an event (which for a specific zone only happens every few years), and who can't solo the bosses, won't be able to do the dailies or get the achievements.

Also, as has been suggested many times before, the solution to this is to scale the difficulty of the boss encounter based on how many players are there (like they do with geysers in Summerset). If only one player is engaged, less health and adds, and less mechanics to worry about, two players, up the health a bit and throw in another mechanic, etc. A ton of players, boss has millions in health and very difficult mechanics and many waves of adds, i.e. more like a dragon in Elsweyr.

SerafinaWaterstar · June 2023

Can you at least hold on the “nerf/don’t nerf” until those of us on consoles have a chance to experience them?! 😂

Braffin · June 2023

Elsonso wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

I'm sure zos is already doing this, and we got increased difficulty with Necrom as well as the promise of an "endless dungeon" in Q4 to adress this topic. That's a clear indicator, that a significant amount of the playerbase isn't happy with actual difficulty and demanding more engaging encounters.

This matches also my observations in this forums, as every poll results in a majority voting for more (optional) difficulty, as well as the amount of posters which are fine with higher difficulty is exeedingly higher than posters which are calling for content nerfs.

I couple things... first, my impression of the typical "above-average" player is that they don't touch world bosses unless they have support from other people. They will stand there until they die of boredom waiting for that to happen because if they aggro the world boss, they will be resurrecting in a minute or so. In the end, I think it means that they mainly ignore world bosses unless they happen to come across one being actively attacked, and then they might toss in.

Honestly, I think that the Necrom world boss content is mainly for the "one percenters" and that the other 99% of the players aren't serious enough about world boss content to do all 6 of them. Of course, only ZOS has the real numbers, but if it is even something that rounds up to 10%, I would be shocked. I'm not trying to belittle anyone or make someone more or less important, just stating what I think the content consumption is across players of this game.

Of course, it could be that the "one percenters" are the only ones left playing the game and the other 99% are playing something else.

Second, did ZOS actually say that they made the Necrom world bosses harder, or is that just what the forum is saying? I don't recall them formally saying anything like that, but I could have missed it. ZOS has "standards" for bosses that they try to meet, so my expectation is that if they changed it up for Necrom, it would have been noteworthy. I recall seeing no such note.

In my pass through Necrom, I thought they were harder, but on review, I don't think they are harder so much as different. I fully expect that they will be described as "faceroll" before the end of the summer as people learn the mechanics and claim to be able to defeat them with nothing more than their thumb. While blindfolded. With their computer turned off. Well, maybe not exactly like that... but "easy".

I can't say much about "above-average" players or "one percenters" due to lack of existing definitions and regarding raw data. I don't share your opinion on this topic, based on the "field reports" a lot of people are sharing for example in this thread, but can respect you point of view nonetheless.

I indeed share your opinion about the deterioration of these bosses over time due to better knowledge of mechanics and being more comfortable with these fights. It's normal for new content to be experienced as harder due to the lack of proper strategies, which take some time to be researched. That's what games are about in the end

I want to add tho, that a lot of players seem dissatisfied with the ratio of effort/reward in this game. Maybe that's a better starting point to encourage participation than outright nerfing content into the void, even before people got the chance to learn this encounters.

SilverBride · June 2023

Snamyap wrote: »

So, you want them to be easier, but not soloable? How exactly do you see this when there are already people that can solo them and at the same time people that find them to hard? You want them scaled up ridiculously high when only one person engages and then drop lower when more people engage and then harder after a certain number?
Also, you don't have to become better at the game, you probably just need a better build. I'm nearing 50, I don't have lightning reflexes, and I can beat most WB in a crafted set combined with a base game dungeon set. It's not rocket science, just move out of stupid, and heal up when you do get hit.

That is not what I said at all.

I want the difficulty such that players aren't afraid to join groups to fight them so this content can also be enjoyed by the average player.

Scaling the difficulty down when there is less than a full group of 4, and scaling the difficulty up when there are 4 or more engaging them would be a step in the right direction.

me_ming · June 2023

Not trying to berate OP, but isn't it that one of the reasons why many players are leaving ESO is because majority of the content is easy? So, why are we complaining now that it's too difficult? Regarding Craglorn pre-One Tam, Craglorn was meant for v12 (and up) for 4-man groups. Why do solo players insist on changing what game mechanics/features are suppose to be to something what they want it to be? Not everyone who is playing this game wants to play solo. If you can't solo it, then yes, look for people who can help you out. That's why you CAN join guilds, that is why you have /zone chats to look for groups. If your group can't solo it, find people who know the mechanics of the said instance, or do your research, or maybe learn and understand your class/skills better so you can solo it. The game is NOT forcing you to look for groups, this is an MMO-RPG after all, it IS in the nature of the game for players to socialize. Part of the reason why so many players now on ESO is so illiterate of their class, their roles, their skills, their gear, etc is because you DON'T need to learn them while questing or fighting overland mobs/bosses die simply with a light attack.

Why are we pushing for a boring gameplay/content? Why do we always have to beat everything on the first try?

SilverBride · June 2023

me_ming wrote: »

Not trying to berate OP, but isn't it that one of the reasons why many players are leaving ESO is because majority of the content is easy?

There is no data supporting that statement. But there is a statement by Rich Lambert that a lot of players find ESO hard and challenging.

Rich's Quote on Overland Content when asked if there were plans for increasing overland difficulty:
(You can see the entire quote on page 102 of the pinned overland content thread.)

...We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points.

me_ming · June 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

Ever thought about people who can't get better for whatever reasons, e.g. disabilities, age, etc? Those people play as well.

I'm really tired of statements like this one. Are you telling me that people with disabilities cannot do anything in this game other than run around and quest? Are you saying that just because they are disabled they are not capable of learning mechanics or improving? Seriously, I'm curious if that is what you think of people with disabilities. Because I, for one, know a lot of people with disabilities who can do things a lot better than people who do not. Please let's stop this assumption that just because some people have disabilities that they cannot get better, because the only reason ANYONE cannot get better is because you didn't try.

flubber77 · June 2023

kind_hero wrote: »

From my experience, only the arcanist world boss is more difficult, since I died the most there, probably it should be tweaked a bit, but the rest are similar to other DLCs.

IMO companions should scale a bit more for fights against world bosses, because in these situations they are almost useless. I have a maxed out Isobel in a tank role, with epic gear, and she doesn't hold much against world bosses, even when there are other players around.

I run my companions with green,blue and some purple gear and with bad traits. but i still manage to have them alive after i kill the boss. If its healer, dd or tank companion i use. you know that you can heal them?

Only reason they die is when i focus damage only and dont care if they die or not. But if you want one to stay longer with you, slot some burst heal with low cooldown on your companion, and make them ranged dd.

I also went in a group dungeon with 2 friends using companion as a tank and it did work just fine even 3 of us was dd. Listen to what they say and give heal and you win :P

me_ming · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Not trying to berate OP, but isn't it that one of the reasons why many players are leaving ESO is because majority of the content is easy?

There is no data supporting that statement. But there is a statement by Rich Lambert that a lot of players find ESO hard and challenging.

Rich's Quote on Overland Content when asked if there were plans for increasing overland difficulty:
(You can see the entire quote on page 102 of the pinned overland content thread.)

...We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points.

He says a "large portion", "large portion" doesn't necessarily mean majority of the players. It just means that say you have 1 Million ESO players, maybe 100k of that find it difficult. It doesn't necessarily mean that majority of the player base think it's difficult. Moreso, he also did not say that, that "large portion" want it changed. He just says that they "find the game hard and overland content challenging".

Also that is why I said "one of the reasons" because I know that's not the ONLY reason why some people are leaving ESO.

flubber77 · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Not trying to berate OP, but isn't it that one of the reasons why many players are leaving ESO is because majority of the content is easy?

...We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points.

"especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points"

You need to read between the line and stop this nerf biases.

How long have you played the game? what is your cp? what gear do you use? what class/race? and skills do you use?

What is your dps?

World Bosses should be hard, not a oneclick grab your reward boss.

Kendaric · June 2023

me_ming wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Ever thought about people who can't get better for whatever reasons, e.g. disabilities, age, etc? Those people play as well.

I'm really tired of statements like this one. Are you telling me that people with disabilities cannot do anything in this game other than run around and quest? Are you saying that just because they are disabled they are not capable of learning mechanics or improving? Seriously, I'm curious if that is what you think of people with disabilities. Because I, for one, know a lot of people with disabilities who can do things a lot better than who people do not. Please let's stop this assumption that just because some people have disabilities that they cannot get better, because the only reason ANYONE cannot get better is because you didn't try.

You don't know me, so don't jump to conclusions.

I'm disabled myself (paralyzed right side due to a stroke 8 years ago) and no, I can't do every mechanic simply because my reactions are slow(er). Sure, I can do some mechanics but some of the more recent wbs for instance are extremely difficult for me when there aren't enough people around.

me_ming · June 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Ever thought about people who can't get better for whatever reasons, e.g. disabilities, age, etc? Those people play as well.

I'm really tired of statements like this one. Are you telling me that people with disabilities cannot do anything in this game other than run around and quest? Are you saying that just because they are disabled they are not capable of learning mechanics or improving? Seriously, I'm curious if that is what you think of people with disabilities. Because I, for one, know a lot of people with disabilities who can do things a lot better than who people do not. Please let's stop this assumption that just because some people have disabilities that they cannot get better, because the only reason ANYONE cannot get better is because you didn't try.

You don't know me, so don't jump to conclusions.

I'm disabled myself (paralyzed right side due to a stroke 8 years ago) and no, I can't do every mechanic simply because my reactions are slow(er). Sure, I can do some mechanics but some of the more recent wbs for instance are extremely difficult for me when there aren't enough people around.

I never jumped into any conclusion though. That's why I asked if that is what you really think of disabled people. Like I said, I know a lot of disabled people who are able to do things better. I know a blind artist. I also know an artist who uses their toes, because they don't have both arms.

Seminolegirl1992 · June 2023

That's what companions are for. It's one of the rare times that there's actually a challenge in new content, and it's honestly refreshing. And because it's so new, it shouldn't be difficult to rely on friends, guilds, and strangers to kill it together. They also have overland and crafted sets to make solo play easier too.

Gnesnig · June 2023

hrothbern wrote: »

I favor some posts made here in this thread to give players the possibility to have a soft mode for a player when doing or joining a WB fight without affecting (at all or too much) the reward, with separate achievements for normal and soft mode.

I don't agree with that at all. Where does this entitlement come from that Joe Schmoe in vintage mismatched gear should be able to kill a latest expansion group boss? Or even 4 Joes. Because there's a daily and everyone should be able to do a daily? Total nonsense. To kill a group boss, you need to be actual skilled adventurers, not tourists.

BlueRaven · June 2023

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.

It is my opinion that the Necrom World Bosses are too difficult for the average player and I have heard others say that this is the reason they aren't joining groups for them.

To summarize:
It has been consistently difficult to find groups for these World Bosses. This is very unusual for this early in a new chapter.

Players have stated the difficulty as the reason they don't join groups for them.

World Bosses should not be soloable so telling a player to get better so they can solo them isn't a solution.

World Bosses and other group content such as Harrowstorms should scale to the number of players engaging them so the content can be completed with a smaller group.

So, you want them to be easier, but not soloable? How exactly do you see this when there are already people that can solo them and at the same time people that find them to hard? You want them scaled up ridiculously high when only one person engages and then drop lower when more people engage and then harder after a certain number?
Also, you don't have to become better at the game, you probably just need a better build. I'm nearing 50, I don't have lightning reflexes, and I can beat most WB in a crafted set combined with a base game dungeon set. It's not rocket science, just move out of stupid, and heal up when you do get hit.

This is all very “straw man-ish”, silver directly mentioned the average player. And the average player cannot solo wbs in any chapter, even the vardenfell ones. They were simply asking the fights be toned down, but not to the extent the “average player” can solo them.

So we get it, there are players out there that are fantastic at the game. They can solo basically everything, great. But the central issue here is that there is no “fall back” position for average casual players.

Can’t do vet dungeons? Do normal.
Can’t do normal dungeons? Do overland.

And now overland content for the average casual player is being eroded. Wbs have become tedious mulitdeath slogs (for a group of average players), if a group ever shows up. And world events were rather unceremoniously taken away from the average player too (but that is another topic altogether).

Are doing these bosses for overland drops worth the trouble? Not really.
Like a lot of Necrom it’s too much work for very little payoff, so they are not attracting crowds. Volcanic eruption events on Galen are far more popular.

me_ming · June 2023

If there is anything I want changed in this instance, it's not the difficulty, it's the rewards. I wish we get rewards that are more worth the time.

Braffin · June 2023

BlueRaven wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.

It is my opinion that the Necrom World Bosses are too difficult for the average player and I have heard others say that this is the reason they aren't joining groups for them.

To summarize:
It has been consistently difficult to find groups for these World Bosses. This is very unusual for this early in a new chapter.

Players have stated the difficulty as the reason they don't join groups for them.

World Bosses should not be soloable so telling a player to get better so they can solo them isn't a solution.

World Bosses and other group content such as Harrowstorms should scale to the number of players engaging them so the content can be completed with a smaller group.

So, you want them to be easier, but not soloable? How exactly do you see this when there are already people that can solo them and at the same time people that find them to hard? You want them scaled up ridiculously high when only one person engages and then drop lower when more people engage and then harder after a certain number?
Also, you don't have to become better at the game, you probably just need a better build. I'm nearing 50, I don't have lightning reflexes, and I can beat most WB in a crafted set combined with a base game dungeon set. It's not rocket science, just move out of stupid, and heal up when you do get hit.

This is all very “straw man-ish”, silver directly mentioned the average player. And the average player cannot solo wbs in any chapter, even the vardenfell ones. They were simply asking the fights be toned down, but not to the extent the “average player” can solo them.

So we get it, there are players out there that are fantastic at the game. They can solo basically everything, great. But the central issue here is that there is no “fall back” position for average casual players.

Can’t do vet dungeons? Do normal.
Can’t do normal dungeons? Do overland.

And now overland content for the average casual player is being eroded. Wbs have become tedious mulitdeath slogs (for a group of average players), if a group ever shows up. And world events were rather unceremoniously taken away from the average player too (but that is another topic altogether).

Are doing these bosses for overland drops worth the trouble? Not really.
Like a lot of Necrom it’s too much work for very little payoff, so they are not attracting crowds. Volcanic eruption events on Galen are far more popular.

Bringing a strawman in a discussion and opening by complaining about them. Amazing.

Once again, neither you nor any other player is representing the "average player". You may share your personal opinion of course, that's what forums are for. But if you want to draw the conclusion, that your experiences match the experiences of a group, you'll have to present proof. Otherwise the opposition shouldn't wonder you.

A clear majority around here is denying your claims. You may not like that, but framing and repeating the same refuted positions over and over again won't make them true.

And please, keep the term "casual" out of the discussion. If somebody likes to play this game casual or more "hardcore" (is this the correct antonym?) says nothing about the skill-level he is doing it.

Elsonso · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Not trying to berate OP, but isn't it that one of the reasons why many players are leaving ESO is because majority of the content is easy?

There is no data supporting that statement. But there is a statement by Rich Lambert that a lot of players find ESO hard and challenging.

Rich's Quote on Overland Content when asked if there were plans for increasing overland difficulty:
(You can see the entire quote on page 102 of the pinned overland content thread.)

...We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points.

As I recall, the achievement completion for even the "easy" base game boss content backs up Lambert.

SilverBride · June 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Once again, neither you nor any other player is representing the "average player".

I represent an average player... ME.

And as an average player I can represent what my experiences are, how this is negatively impacting my gaming experience, and that I have heard others express the same frustration.

All I am asking is that they listen to our concerns and take a look at the data to see how many players are (or aren't in this case) engaging the World Bosses, and see if they can find a solution that makes it possible for more players to enjoy this new content.

Braffin · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Once again, neither you nor any other player is representing the "average player".

I represent an average player... ME.

Well, is it clear to you, that you're not speaking about any kind of statistical average then, if it's solely based on personal opinion?

You represent yourself of course, and nobody is arguing against this. But how can you know you're representing others too? Exactly, you can't.

So, simply say: "Plz nerf this boss, it's too hard for me." and don't pretend to represent anybody but yourself.

SilverBride wrote: »

And as an average player I can represent what my experiences are, how this is negatively impacting my gaming experience, and that I have heard others express the same frustration.

All I am asking is that they listen to our concerns and take a look at the data to see how many players are (or aren't in this case) engaging the World Bosses, and see if they can find a solution that makes it possible for more players to enjoy this new content.

And others have every right to share their own experiences without being denounced as "elitists" or "gatekeepers". You don't have the right to exclude anyone, who isn't sharing your opinion about this WBs, from the "general playerbase". That's what we call "framing" nowadays.

You also assume, that the majority of these "average players" (we are still waiting for a definition of this term you invented) aren't able to clear said content due to difficulty, just because you can't clear them with the build, the tactics and the group you engaged them with.

How do you know this assumption is true?

StarOfElyon · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrom World Bosses are way too difficult. This early in the chapter there should be a lot of players doing these, but we literally have to beg people to join a group for them, even when there is a daily quest to share.

Sounds fun. Can't wait to try them out.