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Necrom World Bosses are way too difficult
-
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.
It is my opinion that the Necrom World Bosses are too difficult for the average player and I have heard others say that this is the reason they aren't joining groups for them.
To summarize:- It has been consistently difficult to find groups for these World Bosses. This is very unusual for this early in a new chapter.
- Players have stated the difficulty as the reason they don't join groups for them.
- World Bosses should not be soloable so telling a player to get better so they can solo them isn't a solution.
- World Bosses and other group content such as Harrowstorms should scale to the number of players engaging them so the content can be completed with a smaller group.
So, you want them to be easier, but not soloable? How exactly do you see this when there are already people that can solo them and at the same time people that find them to hard? You want them scaled up ridiculously high when only one person engages and then drop lower when more people engage and then harder after a certain number?
Also, you don't have to become better at the game, you probably just need a better build. I'm nearing 50, I don't have lightning reflexes, and I can beat most WB in a crafted set combined with a base game dungeon set. It's not rocket science, just move out of stupid, and heal up when you do get hit.
This is all very “straw man-ish”, silver directly mentioned the average player. And the average player cannot solo wbs in any chapter, even the vardenfell ones. They were simply asking the fights be toned down, but not to the extent the “average player” can solo them.
So we get it, there are players out there that are fantastic at the game. They can solo basically everything, great. But the central issue here is that there is no “fall back” position for average casual players.
Can’t do vet dungeons? Do normal.
Can’t do normal dungeons? Do overland.
And now overland content for the average casual player is being eroded. Wbs have become tedious mulitdeath slogs (for a group of average players), if a group ever shows up. And world events were rather unceremoniously taken away from the average player too (but that is another topic altogether).
Are doing these bosses for overland drops worth the trouble? Not really.
Like a lot of Necrom it’s too much work for very little payoff, so they are not attracting crowds. Volcanic eruption events on Galen are far more popular.
Bringing a strawman in a discussion and opening by complaining about them. Amazing.
Once again, neither you nor any other player is representing the "average player". You may share your personal opinion of course, that's what forums are for. But if you want to draw the conclusion, that your experiences match the experiences of a group, you'll have to present proof. Otherwise the opposition shouldn't wonder you.
A clear majority around here is denying your claims. You may not like that, but framing and repeating the same refuted positions over and over again won't make them true.
And please, keep the term "casual" out of the discussion. If somebody likes to play this game casual or more "hardcore" (is this the correct antonym?) says nothing about the skill-level he is doing it.
This the New Oxford American Dictionary’s definition of straw man:
So I don’t think I did that, while the post I responded to clearly was.
“You want them scaled up ridiculously high when only one person engages and then drop lower when more people engage and then harder after a certain number?”
Did anyone suggest this? Ever?
There are people in my guilds who are not doing trials nor dungeons, who are just confused by Necrom. They don’t understand what has happened and are unsure what to do.
The fact that there is nothing to do for them actually in the chapter is causing issues. I’m an officer, I do vet trial content, and I am really off put by this chapter.
Other people on the forums disagree, big deal. Have you seen the pvp discussions? No one agrees on anything.
The thing that does bother me is the deteriorating social community this game used to have. There was a community here that actually cared about other player’s experiences, and that is gone.
And quite frankly as someone who has been constantly playing since the beta, I am wondering if this game is worth playing anymore.
I finished the chapters story, but I have no desire to do dailies in the newest chapter, for the first time in forever. Everything feels like a slog. I went back to Galen which actually feels populated, and the dailies feel good to do.
No repeatable content in Necrom seems worth the trouble. The new mythics are meh. There is no open, farmable, just pop in and out world events. And this is it for Necrom.
It’s in everyone’s best interest that this content lasts a year, and it’s so off putting for average players it’s not lasting a month.8 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.
It is my opinion that the Necrom World Bosses are too difficult for the average player and I have heard others say that this is the reason they aren't joining groups for them.
To summarize:- It has been consistently difficult to find groups for these World Bosses. This is very unusual for this early in a new chapter.
- Players have stated the difficulty as the reason they don't join groups for them.
- World Bosses should not be soloable so telling a player to get better so they can solo them isn't a solution.
- World Bosses and other group content such as Harrowstorms should scale to the number of players engaging them so the content can be completed with a smaller group.
So, you want them to be easier, but not soloable? How exactly do you see this when there are already people that can solo them and at the same time people that find them to hard? You want them scaled up ridiculously high when only one person engages and then drop lower when more people engage and then harder after a certain number?
Also, you don't have to become better at the game, you probably just need a better build. I'm nearing 50, I don't have lightning reflexes, and I can beat most WB in a crafted set combined with a base game dungeon set. It's not rocket science, just move out of stupid, and heal up when you do get hit.
This is all very “straw man-ish”, silver directly mentioned the average player. And the average player cannot solo wbs in any chapter, even the vardenfell ones. They were simply asking the fights be toned down, but not to the extent the “average player” can solo them.
So we get it, there are players out there that are fantastic at the game. They can solo basically everything, great. But the central issue here is that there is no “fall back” position for average casual players.
Can’t do vet dungeons? Do normal.
Can’t do normal dungeons? Do overland.
And now overland content for the average casual player is being eroded. Wbs have become tedious mulitdeath slogs (for a group of average players), if a group ever shows up. And world events were rather unceremoniously taken away from the average player too (but that is another topic altogether).
Are doing these bosses for overland drops worth the trouble? Not really.
Like a lot of Necrom it’s too much work for very little payoff, so they are not attracting crowds. Volcanic eruption events on Galen are far more popular.
Bringing a strawman in a discussion and opening by complaining about them. Amazing.
Once again, neither you nor any other player is representing the "average player". You may share your personal opinion of course, that's what forums are for. But if you want to draw the conclusion, that your experiences match the experiences of a group, you'll have to present proof. Otherwise the opposition shouldn't wonder you.
A clear majority around here is denying your claims. You may not like that, but framing and repeating the same refuted positions over and over again won't make them true.
And please, keep the term "casual" out of the discussion. If somebody likes to play this game casual or more "hardcore" (is this the correct antonym?) says nothing about the skill-level he is doing it.
This the New Oxford American Dictionary’s definition of straw man:
So I don’t think I did that, while the post I responded to clearly was.
“You want them scaled up ridiculously high when only one person engages and then drop lower when more people engage and then harder after a certain number?”
Did anyone suggest this? Ever?
There are people in my guilds who are not doing trials nor dungeons, who are just confused by Necrom. They don’t understand what has happened and are unsure what to do.
The fact that there is nothing to do for them actually in the chapter is causing issues. I’m an officer, I do vet trial content, and I am really off put by this chapter.
Other people on the forums disagree, big deal. Have you seen the pvp discussions? No one agrees on anything.
The thing that does bother me is the deteriorating social community this game used to have. There was a community here that actually cared about other player’s experiences, and that is gone.
And quite frankly as someone who has been constantly playing since the beta, I am wondering if this game is worth playing anymore.
I finished the chapters story, but I have no desire to do dailies in the newest chapter, for the first time in forever. Everything feels like a slog. I went back to Galen which actually feels populated, and the dailies feel good to do.
No repeatable content in Necrom seems worth the trouble. The new mythics are meh. There is no open, farmable, just pop in and out world events. And this is it for Necrom.
It’s in everyone’s best interest that this content lasts a year, and it’s so off putting for average players it’s not lasting a month.
I never said your accusations about strawmen were incorrect, indeed I didn't express myself on that topic at all. I just determined, that your own argumentation is nothing more than a strawman itself.
Regarding your concerns about the deterioration of a caring community, believe me or not, I share them indeed. But I won't discuss this with you, the reason for this you know very well.
And if you intend to leave, I wish you the best.Edited by Braffin on June 19, 2023 7:13PMNever get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.5 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Ever thought about people who can't get better for whatever reasons, e.g. disabilities, age, etc? Those people play as well.
I'm really tired of statements like this one. Are you telling me that people with disabilities cannot do anything in this game other than run around and quest? Are you saying that just because they are disabled they are not capable of learning mechanics or improving? Seriously, I'm curious if that is what you think of people with disabilities. Because I, for one, know a lot of people with disabilities who can do things a lot better than people who do not. Please let's stop this assumption that just because some people have disabilities that they cannot get better, because the only reason ANYONE cannot get better is because you didn't try.
I have rheumatory arthritis, problems with my vision, and numerous health issues, but I would NEVER expect developers to change games to suit my needs, I adapt, thats why I play on controller, have PC glasses, and take breaks when my adrenaline ramps up after a long PVP session due to my heart rate progressively increasing on a linear level. I 100 percent agree with you.SilverBride wrote: »
Well, is it clear to you, that you're not speaking about any kind of statistical average then, if it's solely based on personal opinion?
You represent yourself of course, and nobody is arguing against this. But how can you know you're representing others too? Exactly, you can't.
So, simply say: "Plz nerf this boss, it's too hard for me." and don't pretend to represent anybody but yourself.SilverBride wrote: »And as an average player I can represent what my experiences are, how this is negatively impacting my gaming experience, and that I have heard others express the same frustration.
All I am asking is that they listen to our concerns and take a look at the data to see how many players are (or aren't in this case) engaging the World Bosses, and see if they can find a solution that makes it possible for more players to enjoy this new content.
And others have every right to share their own experiences without being denounced as "elitists" or "gatekeepers". You don't have the right to exclude anyone, who isn't sharing your opinion about this WBs, from the "general playerbase". That's what we call "framing" nowadays.
You also assume, that the majority of these "average players" (we are still waiting for a definition of this term you invented) aren't able to clear said content due to difficulty, just because you can't clear them with the build, the tactics and the group you engaged them with.
How do you know this assumption is true?
Are you on pc eu? I want to ring of mara you
Edited by Jammy420 on June 19, 2023 7:36PM6 -
ShalidorsHeir✭✭✭✭Independent of any represenations - i managed to kill all world bosses in necrom solo so far. Content is good this way for me cuz thats a lot fun tbh.
Eltrys Wolfszahn
Julia Ansei at-Tava
C H I M
"Find a new hill, become a king"7 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
✭You've GOT to be kidding me. They put some slightly difficult overland bosses and people are already running to the forums to complain? @ZOS_Kevin Please don't change anything, hell, put more challenging overland content, this is an mmo game -- we're meant to group for stuff.Edited by Shagreth on June 19, 2023 8:09PM5 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭... this is an mmo game -- we're meant to group for stuff.
Nothing in MMO says "group". All MMO means is that there are multiple players in the game world at the same time. It does not stipulate that they need to be grouped up for anything.
Also, my Original Post and everything I have posted on this topic since has not once said that these or any World Bosses should be soloable... just that they need to be a difficulty that the average player isn't avoiding joining groups for them because of the difficulty, which is what I've been seeing happen.Edited by SilverBride on June 19, 2023 8:19PMPCNA8 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »... this is an mmo game -- we're meant to group for stuff.
Nothing in MMO says "group". All MMO means is that there are multiple players in the game world at the same time. It does not stipulate that they need to be grouped up for anything.
Also, my Original Post and everything I have posted on this topic since has not once said that these or any World Bosses should be soloable... just that they need to be a difficulty that the average player isn't avoiding joining groups for them because of the difficulty, which is what I've been seeing happen.
I'm not being sarcastic when I ask this question, I am legitimately asking you this: Why do you think you are not able to complete it, while others are (grouped or solo)?"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]5 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »... this is an mmo game -- we're meant to group for stuff.
Nothing in MMO says "group". All MMO means is that there are multiple players in the game world at the same time. It does not stipulate that they need to be grouped up for anything.
Also, my Original Post and everything I have posted on this topic since has not once said that these or any World Bosses should be soloable... just that they need to be a difficulty that the average player isn't avoiding joining groups for them because of the difficulty, which is what I've been seeing happen.
I'm not being sarcastic when I ask this question, I am legitimately asking you this: Why do you think you are not able to complete it, while others are (grouped or solo)?
I never said I couldn't complete it. In fact I have completed all the World Bosses in the new zones now. What I said is it has been difficult to find groups and I have heard others reply when I tried that they don't bother with them any more because of the difficulty and length of the fights. But it has been a lot of standing around begging to get groups for these. And a lot of dying and a few wipes.Edited by SilverBride on June 19, 2023 8:53PMPCNA5 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭good news for those who think it is too easy: with todays arcanist changes it will be even more nicely challenging!
Don't say ZOS wouldn't take feedback serious
5 -
Snamyap✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.
It is my opinion that the Necrom World Bosses are too difficult for the average player and I have heard others say that this is the reason they aren't joining groups for them.
To summarize:- It has been consistently difficult to find groups for these World Bosses. This is very unusual for this early in a new chapter.
- Players have stated the difficulty as the reason they don't join groups for them.
- World Bosses should not be soloable so telling a player to get better so they can solo them isn't a solution.
- World Bosses and other group content such as Harrowstorms should scale to the number of players engaging them so the content can be completed with a smaller group.
So, you want them to be easier, but not soloable? How exactly do you see this when there are already people that can solo them and at the same time people that find them to hard? You want them scaled up ridiculously high when only one person engages and then drop lower when more people engage and then harder after a certain number?
Also, you don't have to become better at the game, you probably just need a better build. I'm nearing 50, I don't have lightning reflexes, and I can beat most WB in a crafted set combined with a base game dungeon set. It's not rocket science, just move out of stupid, and heal up when you do get hit.
This is all very “straw man-ish”, silver directly mentioned the average player. And the average player cannot solo wbs in any chapter, even the vardenfell ones. They were simply asking the fights be toned down, but not to the extent the “average player” can solo them.
So we get it, there are players out there that are fantastic at the game. They can solo basically everything, great. But the central issue here is that there is no “fall back” position for average casual players.
Can’t do vet dungeons? Do normal.
Can’t do normal dungeons? Do overland.
And now overland content for the average casual player is being eroded. Wbs have become tedious mulitdeath slogs (for a group of average players), if a group ever shows up. And world events were rather unceremoniously taken away from the average player too (but that is another topic altogether).
Are doing these bosses for overland drops worth the trouble? Not really.
Like a lot of Necrom it’s too much work for very little payoff, so they are not attracting crowds. Volcanic eruption events on Galen are far more popular.
Can you explain to me why the "average" player is unable to wear heavy armor and slot a (self) heal? Because that's really all it takes to prevent a multideath slog.5 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭@SilverBride
Ok, fair enough.
Wouldn't it be a better suggestion though that we have a group finder for this game feature? Or that we get better rewards to incentivize re-playability? Because personally, I really don't think we need things to be dumbed down again. I really enjoyed it pre-One Tam when people just don't speed run non-DLC dungeons, and people had to do mechanics. I pug all the time before. And I really liked it before when people took the time to teach people mechanics. That was one of the reasons why I played this game before.Edited by me_ming on June 19, 2023 9:01PM"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ple complained about it when they probably went there vet 1 or 2 (just because they can) and got their asses whooped.SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »... this is an mmo game -- we're meant to group for stuff.
Nothing in MMO says "group". All MMO means is that there are multiple players in the game world at the same time. It does not stipulate that they need to be grouped up for anything.
Also, my Original Post and everything I have posted on this topic since has not once said that these or any World Bosses should be soloable... just that they need to be a difficulty that the average player isn't avoiding joining groups for them because of the difficulty, which is what I've been seeing happen.
I'm not being sarcastic when I ask this question, I am legitimately asking you this: Why do you think you are not able to complete it, while others are (grouped or solo)?
I never said I couldn't complete it. In fact I have completed all the World Bosses in the new zones now. What I said is it has been difficult to find groups and I have heard others reply when I tried that they don't bother with them any more because of the difficulty and length of the fights. But it has been a lot of standing around begging to get groups for these.
Ok, fair enough.
Wouldn't it be a better suggestion though that we have a group finder for this game feature? Or that we get better rewards to incentivize re-playability? Because personally, I really don't think we need things to be dumbed down again. I really enjoyed it pre-One Tam when people just don't speed run non-DLC dungeons, and people had to do mechanics. I pug all the time before. And I really liked it before when people took the time to teach people mechanics. That was one of the reasons why I played this game before.
I think a reasonable solution would be to have the difficulty scale to the number of players engaging the boss. If less than 4 then scale down some of the adds maybe, and if more than 4 scale up the number of adds etc.. Then if we can't find a full group we could still complete it without it being so frustrating.Edited by SilverBride on June 19, 2023 9:01PMPCNA4 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
Although this definition of an "massive multiplayer online" game is quite odd, I'll give you this nominal definition.
Nonetheless eso (as every other mmo) contains several forms of content specifically made for groups. WBs are part of this content. The intended way to do them is in a group, as you can assure yourself by opening the map and looking at the description found there.
Also there are various ways to get in touch to people which share the same interests as oneself, both ingame and in various ways around the game:
- Joining a guild for people with similar interests.
- Making friends while playing the game.
- Joining discord channels for people with similar interests.
- Asking for help in this forums.
Of course other people aren't some npc, which are ready everytime they're needed. That's why a bare minimum of cooperation is necessary as in any other activity involving others too.
I have to admit, I wonder why the heck all the allegedly complaining masses (which apparently communicate) aren't forming a group and kill the boss in question instead of ranting.
But one thing I know for sure: If the reason for refusing to group up is "I prefer solo and don't want to bother with others." then WBs are simply content not made for you.
Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.11 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to admit, I wonder why the heck all the allegedly complaining masses (which apparently communicate) aren't forming a group and kill the boss in question instead of ranting.
But one thing I know for sure: If the reason for refusing to group up is "I prefer solo and don't want to bother with others." then WBs are simply content not made for you.
Yea this is a bizarre post. OP claims that world bosses should be nerfed so more people will want to group up and do them. Shouldn't a difficult encounter encourage people to group up though? I know group size is limited to 12, but you can have more than 12 people at a world boss. If they're so difficult people can just zerg them down.
Edited by Stamicka on June 19, 2023 9:52PMJaeyL
PC NA and Xbox NA6 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have to admit, I wonder why the heck all the allegedly complaining masses (which apparently communicate) aren't forming a group and kill the boss in question instead of ranting.
But one thing I know for sure: If the reason for refusing to group up is "I prefer solo and don't want to bother with others." then WBs are simply content not made for you.
The only ones here talking about soloing the world bosses are high CP players. The OP hasn't asked for soloable world bosses and neither have I. In fact I have stated that I'm not able to solo any world boss, not even base game ones.
Also, you don't have to be grouped to do world bosses 7 -
hiyde✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »Every poll on here about overland had an overwhelming majority say the game is way too easy.
The vote is even on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583436/what-type-of-overland-would-you-prefer/p1
The vote is overwhelming in favor of leaving overland just as it is on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583551/another-poll-on-overland-difficulty-but-with-more-options
I guess it's all in how one reads the data.
First poll you linked is indeed even.
It's also just 2 choices:
- Leave overland as is [for everyone].
- Change difficulty, [for everyone].
No option for difficulty toggles, which is what a lot of folks would like to see.
On the second poll you linked, I'm not seeing the "overwhelming [vote] of leaving overland as-is.".
I see:
40% of votes for "as is"
~60% of votes for *some* sort of increased difficulty.
World Bosses have always been presented as group content. If it's going to remain that way, folks need ways of finding the help they need when no one is around.
Adjusting rewards (imo) seems like a suggestion with some potential. This also seems like a great reason to form or join a guild that focuses on helping with this kind of content. @Hiyde GM/Founder - Bleakrock Barter Co (Trade Guild - PC/NA) | Blackbriar Barter Co (Trade Guild-PC/NA)5 -
ElvenOverlord✭✭✭✭AlwaysDancing wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »When players are having trouble finding groups for these World Bosses already, this early in the chapter, something is wrong.
I think what is wrong is the lackluster rewards from doing WB in this area, not the difficulty. There is no incentive to go out of the way to kill these bosses. A trash set piece, a crafting material, and a dozen gold pieces? The antiquity lead is maybe worth it to some people, but once you get it - nothing.
Is there any WB in the game that has a chance to drop a mount? Having some cool mount drops from world bosses would really incentivize people to do them more.2 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have to admit, I wonder why the heck all the allegedly complaining masses (which apparently communicate) aren't forming a group and kill the boss in question instead of ranting.
But one thing I know for sure: If the reason for refusing to group up is "I prefer solo and don't want to bother with others." then WBs are simply content not made for you.
The only ones here talking about soloing the world bosses are high CP players. The OP hasn't asked for soloable world bosses and neither have I. In fact I have stated that I'm not able to solo any world boss, not even base game ones.
Also, you don't have to be grouped to do world bosses
If you aren't the only player around fighting an enemy you're of course in some sort of group
You may also spare your assumptions of other player's CP for someone interested.
Scaling for less than 4 players is the most recent demand, instead of getting in touch with a bigger community.
It's remembering me of the joke about a wrong way driver annoyed by all the wrong way drivers around meanwhile.
But don't let that stop you.Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.3 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf...
It's always this kind of threads in the forums.
Edited by Dragonnord on June 20, 2023 12:41PMSERVER: NA | PLATFORM: PC | OS: Windows 10 | CLIENT: Steam | ESO PLUS: Yes8 -
DP99✭✭✭✭✭They are supposed to be group content so should not be solo-able easily.
There has been a lot of complaining about overland being too easy - so now some of it is harder.
Try levelling and kitting out a companion to help you.
I agree that WBs are group content and they should be difficult enough to have to do with a group. Yes, that's the point, they shouldn't be soloable by yourself or with an NPC companion.
But, they also shouldn't be so difficult that no one is even bothering to do them, and you can't get an intended group together to be able to accomplish it.6 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you aren't the only player around fighting an enemy you're of course in some sort of group
Scaling for less than 4 players is the most recent demand, instead of getting in touch with a bigger community.
It's remembering me of the joke about a wrong way driver annoyed by all the wrong way drivers around meanwhile.
But don't let that stop you.
Getting in touch with the "greater community" isn't really possible when there is no one around. That may or may not already be the case (I don't have Necrom yet), but it will be problem going forward. And no "just join a guild" is not a good answer.
Assuming the bosses in Necrom are as difficult or more difficult than Voidmother Egoladil (?) in the Reach, I can see the problem for new(er) players getting their dailies done.
6 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you aren't the only player around fighting an enemy you're of course in some sort of group
Scaling for less than 4 players is the most recent demand, instead of getting in touch with a bigger community.
It's remembering me of the joke about a wrong way driver annoyed by all the wrong way drivers around meanwhile.
But don't let that stop you.
Getting in touch with the "greater community" isn't really possible when there is no one around. That may or may not already be the case (I don't have Necrom yet), but it will be problem going forward. And no "just join a guild" is not a good answer.
Assuming the bosses in Necrom are as difficult or more difficult than Voidmother Egoladil (?) in the Reach, I can see the problem for new(er) players getting their dailies done.
Why exactly isn't "join a guild" a good answer?
I get asked countless times per day to join for some content in the guilds I am, and if I have the time I'll help out happily. Most others do the same.
On the other side I deactivate zone chat most of the time, as do many others because the constant advertising is quite annoying during questing.Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have to admit, I wonder why the heck all the allegedly complaining masses (which apparently communicate) aren't forming a group and kill the boss in question instead of ranting.
I have mentioned several times in this thread that we are trying to form groups, and are asking for help in zone chat, and are offering to share the quests but it takes forever to fill the group. The only reason I have been given by those who decline to group or help is the difficulty and length of the fights.PCNA4 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I have to admit, I wonder why the heck all the allegedly complaining masses (which apparently communicate) aren't forming a group and kill the boss in question instead of ranting.
I have mentioned several times in this thread that we are trying to form groups, and are asking for help in zone chat, and are offering to share the quests but it takes forever to fill the group. The only reason I have been given by those who decline to group or help is the difficulty and length of the fights.
So, you asked random people in zone chat and didn't get a positive reaction. I'll give you that.
Did you try any other available option to get in touch with like-minded people? I'm really curious about this.Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I have to admit, I wonder why the heck all the allegedly complaining masses (which apparently communicate) aren't forming a group and kill the boss in question instead of ranting.
I have mentioned several times in this thread that we are trying to form groups, and are asking for help in zone chat, and are offering to share the quests but it takes forever to fill the group. The only reason I have been given by those who decline to group or help is the difficulty and length of the fights.
So, you asked random people in zone chat and didn't get a positive reaction. I'll give you that.
Did you try any other available option to get in touch with like-minded people? I'm really curious about this.
I have asked in guild and friends, but normally I prefer to adventure for things like that on my own, and I have never had a problem just asking in zone and finding help in a short amount of time... until this chapter.
And what about players that aren't in guilds or don't know a lot of people in game yet? There are also players that have social anxiety and being parts of groups like that aren't a good option for them.PCNA6 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I have to admit, I wonder why the heck all the allegedly complaining masses (which apparently communicate) aren't forming a group and kill the boss in question instead of ranting.
I have mentioned several times in this thread that we are trying to form groups, and are asking for help in zone chat, and are offering to share the quests but it takes forever to fill the group. The only reason I have been given by those who decline to group or help is the difficulty and length of the fights.
So, you asked random people in zone chat and didn't get a positive reaction. I'll give you that.
Did you try any other available option to get in touch with like-minded people? I'm really curious about this.
I have asked in guild and friends, but normally I prefer to adventure for things like that on my own, and I have never had a problem just asking in zone and finding help in a short amount of time... until this chapter.
And what about players that aren't in guilds or don't know a lot of people in game yet? There are also players that have social anxiety and being parts of groups like that aren't a good option for them.
Thanks for clarification. That's all I wanted to know.
It's the expected answer.Edited by Braffin on June 19, 2023 10:54PMNever get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.7 -
valenwood_vegan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Look folks, the contempt for players who aren't super great at combat isn't called for. The problem isn't so much that content is too easy or too difficult. These are completely subjective experiences. The problem is that there's this huge gap between players, who... as I said before... are essentially playing entirely different games. More relaxed players who are interested in the story / lore / housing / light combat / normal dungeons / etc... are important to the game, as are competitive players who are looking for a challenge all the time.
If players leave the game, it ends up hurting all of us because ZoS loses money and less money gets put back into the game. I still say that the only real solution here is to look at a way of scaling difficulty / splitting things into normal / vet on a wider scale. It's honestly not that outrageous for players who are less into the competitive nature of the game... to be upset with the direction Necrom has taken. There is already challenging content. And now the overland content that's been their bread and butter is being made more challenging too. Please don't get angry at me, I'm not trying to advocate for taking challenging content away from you. I just think we could have more of both. And also more work could be and NEEDS to be done in terms of providing in-game content that actually teaches newer and less competitive players how to improve.
Let's be honest here - by trying to cater the same content to both groups, ZoS isn't making anyone happy. The more difficult Necrom bosses are STILL too easy for real endgame players. They have got to work on something like scaling content to the number of players... or splitting more content between normal / vet - or call it what you want... story mode / challenge mode... even if it means instances. Trying to scale everything to everyone is not working. Let's try not to get angry at each other, but realize that the game is healthier if many different groups of people of different abilities feel welcome here.14 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭valenwood_vegan wrote: »Look folks, the contempt for players who aren't super great at combat isn't called for. The problem isn't so much that content is too easy or too difficult. These are completely subjective experiences. The problem is that there's this huge gap between players, who... as I said before... are essentially playing entirely different games. More relaxed players who are interested in the story / lore / housing / light combat / normal dungeons / etc... are important to the game, as are competitive players who are looking for a challenge all the time.
If players leave the game, it ends up hurting all of us because ZoS loses money and less money gets put back into the game. I still say that the only real solution here is to look at a way of scaling difficulty / splitting things into normal / vet on a wider scale. It's honestly not that outrageous for players who are less into the competitive nature of the game... to be upset with the direction Necrom has taken. There is already challenging content. And now the overland content that's been their bread and butter is being made more challenging too. Please don't get angry at me, I'm not trying to advocate for taking challenging content away from you. I just think we could have more of both. And also more work could be and NEEDS to be done in terms of providing in-game content that actually teaches newer and less competitive players how to improve.
Let's be honest here - by trying to cater the same content to both groups, ZoS isn't making anyone happy. The more difficult Necrom bosses are STILL too easy for real endgame players. They have got to work on something like scaling content to the number of players... or splitting more content between normal / vet - or call it what you want... story mode / challenge mode... even if it means instances. Trying to scale everything to everyone is not working. Let's try not to get angry at each other, but realize that the game is healthier if many different groups of people of different abilities feel welcome here.
I think you're completely right. Please don't understand the following notes as contradiction of your words. They aren't:
Thing is, nobody wants to take anything away from more relaxed players. On the contrary: Various suggestions were made over time which intended to create the condition you're talking about. An optional "veteran overland" is just one of them.
On the other hand however a few of the more relaxed players are blocking off every suggestion made which would cater both sides. Most of the time these opposing arguments flow into the argument of development resources combined with accusations of elitism and gatekeeping. It seems so, that "play as you want" isn't valid for more skillful players, if the only option viable seems to be self-nerfing in overland while whole parts of the game (PvP, PvE endgame) are almost extinct meanwhile.
On top of that we have constant demands to eliminate every content for more skillful players. We even had a thread about removing the completely optional arena endeavors from choices, because some people feel they aren't fitting. That's a completely unnecessary and unprovoked attack at other peoples playstyles.
So yes, you're completely right about how the situation could be solved to almost everyone's satisfaction, but that will require willingness to do so from both sides.
And to be honest: I don't see that happening, as long as people, which were celebrating U35 and the following exodus of players as "not a big loss because more resources for us" aren't willing to take a step towards players in demand of more engaging combat.Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.12 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok, let's see if I can explain it:
In ESO enemies are static at level 50 CP 160. However, the player is scaled/bolstered, which is the reason why the player gets weaker as level increases. This is also the reason why it's generally easier to do, for example, a public dungeon at level 20 or 25 than at level 40. Of course gear plays a significant role in this as well.
When a player reaches CP 160+ and their power increases again, to the point where all normal content is pathetically easy for them.
So essentially players with high CP are overleveling content, which makes any fight trivial of course.
As for your example: The level 10 character has stats a level 50 CP 160 character would have. However, as the game can't know how you'll distribute your stats, all your stats are increased to the extreme. Add to that the fact that the level 10 character may in fact be a level 10 CP 1500+ alt character...
Okay, so as I understand your explanation, it's the players who are being scaled. That's basically what I had thought, although I'm still in the dark about the specifics. But it sounds like the amount of scaling could be plotted as a sort of curve in that the lower-level characters get more benefit or impact from the scaling than higher-level characters do, with L50 CP160 being the point at which the curve changes.
Anyway, my earlier posts were wondering if this scaling that's already being done could conceivably be modified based on a "difficulty" preference in each character's game settings. The enemies would still be "static at level 50 CP 160," just as they are now, so everyone could still play alongside each other in the same instances, facing the same enemies, just like now. But instead of the scaling being done by some kind of fixed calculation, the calculation would use values that vary per character. The mechanics of the scaling would remain the same, but the results would vary in accordance to whether the difficulty was set to (say) easy, default, or challenging.
I have no idea if that would be possible, since I don't know the specifics of how the scaling is done. And I'm not even trying to advocate for such a solution, because as I mentioned before, I think it would open up a huge can of worms. Too many players are already somewhat hostile or critical or toxic toward each other when it comes to the game's content and how each player chooses to clear it. We don't need anything else that players could rag each other over.
In any case, any hypothetical difficulty setting should NOT be enabled in PvP-- neither in PvP zones nor during duels in PvE zones-- and it would probably also need to be considered when finding groups, such as ensuring that players with differing difficulty settings are not grouped together unless they have indicated that they don't mind being in a group where members might not have the same difficulty setting as they do.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!1
This discussion has been closed.