Necrom World Bosses are way too difficult

SilverBride

Necrom World Bosses are way too difficult. This early in the chapter there should be a lot of players doing these, but we literally have to beg people to join a group for them, even when there is a daily quest to share. Please tone these down so the general player base can find groups and enjoy them. We already have Bastion Nymics for a bigger challenge, please leave something for the rest of us.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Malprave

Necrom world bosses are being slain without mercy even as I write this. I’ve two-manned a couple of these with just rando players and I’m no elite player. Again, as I’ve said in another topic, I don’t understand why people want everything to be easy.

SilverBride

Malprave wrote: »

Necrom world bosses are being slain without mercy even as I write this. I’ve two-manned a couple of these with just rando players and I’m no elite player. Again, as I’ve said in another topic, I don’t understand why people want everything to be easy.

Not everyone is able to two man these and we have even struggled in groups of four. And finding a group of 4 has been next to impossible in the first place.

It's not that we want everything to be easy. It's that we want things to be doable by the general player base. These are not.

Kisakee

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not that we want everything to be easy. It's that we want things to be doable by the general player base. These are not.

And we want it to be as hard like that and even harder. We don't want easy mode for the general player base. If you can't do it as four where others can do it as two or even solo that's not on the difficulty of the boss.

SilverBride

Kisakee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not that we want everything to be easy. It's that we want things to be doable by the general player base. These are not.

And we want it to be as hard like that and even harder. We don't want easy mode for the general player base. If you can't do it as four where others can do it as two or even solo that's not on the difficulty of the boss.

But it is.

This is reminding me of when Craglorn launched before One Tamriel. Everything there was this difficult. There was nothing for the average normal player and we were losing players in mass.

There are way more average players than meta and we deserve content at a level we can enjoy too.

Malprave

If somebody puts it out in zone chat that a boss is up I get there too late half the time and the boss is already dead. If there’s a bar here blocking off content, it’s awfully low.

Kisakee

SilverBride wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not that we want everything to be easy. It's that we want things to be doable by the general player base. These are not.

And we want it to be as hard like that and even harder. We don't want easy mode for the general player base. If you can't do it as four where others can do it as two or even solo that's not on the difficulty of the boss.

But it is.

This is reminding me of when Craglorn launched before One Tamriel. Everything there was this difficult. There was nothing for the average normal player and we were losing players in mass.

There are way more average players than meta and we deserve content at a level we can enjoy too.

You can ask people who are capable of helping you with it but stop ruining it for people who like a challenge.

Braffin

SilverBride wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not that we want everything to be easy. It's that we want things to be doable by the general player base. These are not.

And we want it to be as hard like that and even harder. We don't want easy mode for the general player base. If you can't do it as four where others can do it as two or even solo that's not on the difficulty of the boss.

But it is.

This is reminding me of when Craglorn launched before One Tamriel. Everything there was this difficult. There was nothing for the average normal player and we were losing players in mass.

There are way more average players than meta and we deserve content at a level we can enjoy too.

Regarding craglorn: The problem back then wasn't the average difficulty (most of players I knew were fine with it), but the forced grouping introduced with this zone, especially connected with the need to be in the same phase as every other group member to continue the quests.

Regarding average player: Who is setting this "average"? Can you provide any data? Maybe is the inability to defeat a necrom WB in a group of 4 not average anymore, but below that?

SilverBride

Malprave wrote: »

If somebody puts it out in zone chat that a boss is up I get there too late half the time and the boss is already dead. If there’s a bar here blocking off content, it’s awfully low.

That has not been my experience on PCNA. For the past few days it's been very difficult to get other players to show up.

EnerG

Every wb I've killed have been between 2 and 5 players, [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Kwik1

Done 6 world bosses on 3 different characters in the last 2 days and each time there has been at least 3 other people there already killing the mob and the mob was over half dead.

I have done Necrom WB's since release and seen maybe twice at most they failed to kill the WB on the first attempt and never failed it on the second.

These don't need to be harder, people just need to learn the new mechanics better.

Even the Bastion Nymic's have been dropping fast. I can solo the heralds with my warden and the actual dungeon part, while harder, are not very hard once you get the mechanics a little.

SilverBride

I am relating my experience, which is that it's been very difficult to get a group of 4 for these World Bosses, and when asking for help in zone chat, players have replied that they gave up on doing them because of the difficulty.

SeaGtGruff

I haven't tried any of them yet, but speaking in general my strategy is to do the content I'm able to solo and avoid the content I can't solo until I'm better able to do it.

For instance, when Morrowind dropped, I focused on doing the delve dailies but didn't even bother picking up the boss dailies because I couldn't solo them. But eventually I got to where I could solo specific bosses, so I started to check the boss daily to see if it was one I could handle. And now I can solo all of the bosses in Vvardenfell, so I rarely pick up the delve daily anymore because I'd much rather pick up the boss daily.

Same with Summerset, Elsweyr, Greymoor, Blackwood, High Isle, and any other zone that has delve dailies and boss dailies. Right now the only other chapter zone where I can solo all of the bosses is Northern Elsweyr, so for the others I'll check the boss daily but generally won't pick it up if I know I can't solo it yet. That doesn't stop me from trying to solo the other bosses every once in a while to see if I can figure out a winning strategy, or running to help someone with them if I see a cry for help in zone chat, but I'm happy to more or less ignore them until I know I'm able to handle them.

Braffin

SilverBride wrote: »

I am relating my experience, which is that it's been very difficult to get a group of 4 for these World Bosses, and when asking for help in zone chat, players have replied that they gave up on doing them because of the difficulty.

No, you're not just sharing your experience here. You do indeed demand to turn down the necrom WBs in difficulty, while assuming that your experiences meet the experiences of the general playerbase without delivering any data to prove your claim.

Several other players responded to your posting, telling you that their experiences are different from yours.

SpiritKitten

Kwik1 wrote: »

D

These don't need to be harder, people just need to learn the new mechanics better.

This is the key right here. Do all the mechanics, you can't skip them. For instance, destroy the crystals on the perimeter, etc...

SilverBride

I am giving feedback on what I have encountered and my opinion on the topic. Others may have different experiences or may not agree with my opinion but that doesn't change what I have seen.

When players are having trouble finding groups for these World Bosses already, this early in the chapter, something is wrong.

Carcamongus

My experience with Necrom is that we're almost at the 3rd week and not that many people ask for help with their WB dailies. Furthermore, on a few occasions I arrived at a boss to find no one there and, more often than not, small groups of people, about 4-5, assembled for the fight. Yes, that meant the WB could be killed, but it's worrying to see so few people doing them on a new chapter with a new motif dropping. My concern, and OP is right on that account, is eventually the zone won't have nearly as many players available for these dailies and several of the bosses are indeed quite hard to kill with just 2 people.

Malprave

Just played a few minutes ago. Bosses dropping like flies. Plenty of people doing them.

Jestir

So i'm a pretty below mid player and with pale order i can reliably solo (with a companion who dies a few seconds in to mechanics) all but the nightmare whatever one, that dashing around mechanic always gets me at some point

They aren't too hard, just a lot of mechanics to keep track of for one person

DocFrost72

My wife and I have zero issue doing every boss in the zone, and there's a healthy volume of random players floating around to help!

SilverBride wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

Necrom world bosses are being slain without mercy even as I write this. I’ve two-manned a couple of these with just rando players and I’m no elite player. Again, as I’ve said in another topic, I don’t understand why people want everything to be easy.

Not everyone is able to two man these and-

-and that is okay. If you need clears and kills, add me @Kev'Lar on PCNA. I'm around as often as I can be and I'm happy to help you body some tentacled fools, or share build tips and tricks for solo content.

SilverBride

DocFrost72 wrote: »

My wife and I have zero issue doing every boss in the zone, and there's a healthy volume of random players floating around to help!

SilverBride wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

Necrom world bosses are being slain without mercy even as I write this. I’ve two-manned a couple of these with just rando players and I’m no elite player. Again, as I’ve said in another topic, I don’t understand why people want everything to be easy.

Not everyone is able to two man these and-

-and that is okay. If you need clears and kills, add me @Kev'Lar on PCNA. I'm around as often as I can be and I'm happy to help you body some tentacled fools, or share build tips and tricks for solo content.

That is very nice of you, thank you.

ArchangelIsraphel

I'm on the fence about the difficulty of these bosses. I like the challenge of the new mechanics, and I think the bosses were implemented in an interesting way in general. But I do agree with you- when its this early in the chapter and people are already having difficulty recruiting for WB's, something is wrong.

I am having the same problem as you in terms of recruiting for help doing these. I said it in another thread, but on day 2 of the launch...nobody was around to do them. I was online during prime time, and it was a ghost town. Perhaps I had just been put in a particularly empty instance of the zone, and that could be why I've been struggling to get help. But every single day its been like this. For a new zone, its strangely empty. High Isle had more people out doing bosses when it launched and it wasn't even that popular.

The problem with these mechanics is that people may find them fun now, but later on down the line when the zone looses its brand new shine and gets abandoned like every other mechanic-heavy piece of overland content (Dragons, Harrowstorms, Oblivion Portals, I'm looking at you) these bosses will become extremely difficult for smaller groups to complete simple dailies that don't give enough reward for the amount of slog one has to go through to complete them. That doesn't seem good for the health of the game nor does it encourage the purchase of the DLC.

To those acting like this is a "skill issue"- Sorry, but is soloing or duoing the same world boss over and over again the type of harder overland content you were really looking for, so much so that you feel the need to gatekeep it for the average player? I found these bosses fun the first few times, just like I found trials fun the first few times, but it really looses its charm as time goes on. Especially knowing that my desire for harder overland content may be keeping other players from actually enjoying the content they purchased. And honestly, I feel this was a poor implementation of harder content for players who like to be challenged, but that subject belongs in another thread entirely. It would have been better if we'd gotten our own separate veteran zone with dalies of its own like craglorn used to be, leaving the normal dalies alone.

RevJJ

My issue with the new WBs is that all of them seem to completely ignore cc immunity. I don’t know if that’s a bug or not but I spend more time breaking free than doing damage whenever the number of players fighting these WBs is low (which, during my play hours, is usually the case - I come up to a lot of these bosses and there will be nobody there).

Ragnarok0130

SilverBride wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not that we want everything to be easy. It's that we want things to be doable by the general player base. These are not.

And we want it to be as hard like that and even harder. We don't want easy mode for the general player base. If you can't do it as four where others can do it as two or even solo that's not on the difficulty of the boss.

But it is.

This is reminding me of when Craglorn launched before One Tamriel. Everything there was this difficult. There was nothing for the average normal player and we were losing players in mass.

There are way more average players than meta and we deserve content at a level we can enjoy too.

It's a WORLD BOSS it's supposed to take the combined effort of several players to take it down. Post One Tamriel people have complained en masse that people can solo world bosses and that isn't a good thing. Craglorn was entirely group content pre-One Tamriel so that isn't an apples to apples comparison with an overland world boss. This just seems to be a continuation of your Harrowstorm difficulty thread TBH.

Jaraal

To be fair, Chainmaker is one of the easiest DLC world bosses I have ever soloed. And most people have problems with the Prime Cataloger because virtually nobody focuses the clones one at a time. You'll see people fighting all four at once, and therefore the fight takes forever.

markulrich1966

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

High Isle had more people out doing bosses when it launched and it wasn't even that popular.

Why do you think it was not that popular?
Steamcharts show +18% players in june 2022 (Release was june, 6th).
For this year (last 30 days) we see just 3-4% increase.

Myself I bought High Isle despite some scepticism, as some videos of the landscape looked very inviting, and overall I am ok with buying it, as they said it was a little less this time due to Corona.

But Necrom? The landscape currently would be the ONLY reason for me to get it, and just for being "ok", not "fantastic". The rest I read looks more like horror (Bastion Nymic, Arcanists Sci-Fi design, Achievement requirements (necrom master angler for savior of necrom), generally raised difficulty level, no substantial U35 corrections). So I pass this year.
I really don't have the impression Necrom is more poular than High Isle.

SimonThesis

In my experience these new world bosses are being killed almost as soon as they spawn so it's been hard to get to one in time for the quest. Its as bad as when the harrowstorms dropped new motifs. I will say I have no sympathy for people who choose to run offmeta sets for fun and then ask for the content to be nerfed for everyone. You don't even have to weave for overland.

Crimsonorion

The WB's seem "tougher" but honestly I've been getting on PC-NA around 6am the past couple of weeks [when I get home from work] picking up the Necrom boss daily for Sharp Rapport then going to said WB and posting in zone thats it up then just attacking it. Yes some are harder [The Arcanist one and that Xiyvn...Valkyn one] but haven't had wipes or issues.

Not saying you're wrong

Also I love it when people come to posts like this and say "We want harder content" "We don't want easy content". Who's this "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket? Speak for yourself and don't pretend to speak for others, thanks

Dr_Con

SilverBride wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not that we want everything to be easy. It's that we want things to be doable by the general player base. These are not.

And we want it to be as hard like that and even harder. We don't want easy mode for the general player base. If you can't do it as four where others can do it as two or even solo that's not on the difficulty of the boss.

But it is.

This is reminding me of when Craglorn launched before One Tamriel. Everything there was this difficult. There was nothing for the average normal player and we were losing players in mass.

There are way more average players than meta and we deserve content at a level we can enjoy too.

Parts of Craglorn (specifically the *GROUP* encounters) are still difficult years after One Tamriel, some of the bosses are still out of the scope for a good majority of people to solo.

It's not as if the entire zone is impossible to solo, it's the fact that a few encounters are difficult. There's some I can't solo on my tank and companion and that's just fine, there are encounters that are easy and are designed to be easy. I believe that Necrom/Apocrypha encounters are in a good place in terms of difficulty.

Braffin

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

To those acting like this is a "skill issue"- Sorry, but is soloing or duoing the same world boss over and over again the type of harder overland content you were really looking for, so much so that you feel the need to gatekeep it for the average player? I found these bosses fun the first few times, just like I found trials fun the first few times, but it really looses its charm as time goes on. Especially knowing that my desire for harder overland content may be keeping other players from actually enjoying the content they purchased. And honestly, I feel this was a poor implementation of harder content for players who like to be challenged, but that subject belongs in another thread entirely. It would have been better if we'd gotten our own separate veteran zone with dalies of its own like craglorn used to be, leaving the normal dalies alone.

So the "gatekeeping" strawman again it is

Let's start with something easy: Define "average player" to us please.

Besides that: Almost nobody demanded a veteran overland forced at everybody (which necrom overland isn't btw), but we asked for a simple toggle, so we "average players" (this game can indeed be played from both sides, if necessary) may have fun too with the builds we like playing. It's the "toxic casual" (not every casual tho, but mostly only the crowd still celebrating u35) which bring every argument he can think of against this. But that belongs to another thread, I agree on this.

Nonetheless a broad majority of players in my guilds (including a guild catering explicitely to newer players and story-centered people) report no problems with the difficulty of the new WBs. On top of that, even here in forums a small minority is voting for a change. Maybe we should do a poll to get at least anecdotal evidence before any of us pretends to speak for the "average playerbase"?

BaggyGreen

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrom World Bosses are way too difficult. This early in the chapter there should be a lot of players doing these, but we literally have to beg people to join a group for them, even when there is a daily quest to share. Please tone these down so the general player base can find groups and enjoy them. We already have Bastion Nymics for a bigger challenge, please leave something for the rest of us.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Concentration and a bit of skill wins the day. The former, over the latter.

Taking note of mechanics, etc, and making some sort of plan.