• Buffs and Debuffs
  • Empower: Reduced this bonus to 70%, down from 80%
    Since we've started working on Heavy Attack build viability in the past year, we've seen a massive surge in their use, which is absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace. While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, and in some rare cases, they're outperforming a standard build. We're cutting down the damage bonus here ever so slightly in hopes that when you have Empower with a bunch of other Heavy Attack bonus sets, the numbers are still nice and juicy, but not as close to a full-on Light Attack build.

• Storm Master:
  • This set’s bonus damage with Light and Heavy Attacks now only works against monsters.
  • Reduced the duration of the bonus to 8 seconds, down from 20 seconds.
  • Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, down from 10.

Billium813 wrote: »

• Buffs and Debuffs
  • Empower: Reduced this bonus to 70%, down from 80%
    Since we've started working on Heavy Attack build viability in the past year, we've seen a massive surge in their use, which is absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace. While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, and in some rare cases, they're outperforming a standard build. We're cutting down the damage bonus here ever so slightly in hopes that when you have Empower with a bunch of other Heavy Attack bonus sets, the numbers are still nice and juicy, but not as close to a full-on Light Attack build.

• Storm Master:
  • This set’s bonus damage with Light and Heavy Attacks now only works against monsters.
  • Reduced the duration of the bonus to 8 seconds, down from 20 seconds.
  • Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, down from 10.

@ZOS You've completely missed the issue! Storm Master wasn't used in PvP anyway. Empower was not really the issue either. The issue is 100% Sergeant's Mail and Lightning Staves channel damage imbalance with HA sets. Nerfing Storm Master is pointless when other HA buff sets are much more egregious too! Sergeant's Mail buffs 2580 vs Storm Master that only buffs 1542. Poking Empower from 80% -> 70% does absolutely nothing and Empower isn't even the issue to begin with!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/629658/comparing-heavy-attacks

Billium813 wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

• Buffs and Debuffs
  • Empower: Reduced this bonus to 70%, down from 80%
    Since we've started working on Heavy Attack build viability in the past year, we've seen a massive surge in their use, which is absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace. While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, and in some rare cases, they're outperforming a standard build. We're cutting down the damage bonus here ever so slightly in hopes that when you have Empower with a bunch of other Heavy Attack bonus sets, the numbers are still nice and juicy, but not as close to a full-on Light Attack build.

• Storm Master:
  • This set’s bonus damage with Light and Heavy Attacks now only works against monsters.
  • Reduced the duration of the bonus to 8 seconds, down from 20 seconds.
  • Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, down from 10.

@ZOS You've completely missed the issue! Storm Master wasn't used in PvP anyway. Empower was not really the issue either. The issue is 100% Sergeant's Mail and Lightning Staves channel damage imbalance with HA sets. Nerfing Storm Master is pointless when other HA buff sets are much more egregious too! Sergeant's Mail buffs 2580 vs Storm Master that only buffs 1542. Poking Empower from 80% -> 70% does absolutely nothing and Empower isn't even the issue to begin with!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/629658/comparing-heavy-attacks

Never confuse people with facts, when their minds are made up.

At this point -- they will drive away the enthusiasm, and players, until the only way the gatekeepers can keep the country club they just drove the plebs out of, is extreme monitization......

There are other games....
I will stay as long as I can still have fun... when they cross the line, I leave... and a LOT of people feel that way.......
Of course, now that Microsoft is a player, and a huge advocate of accessibility... complaints to them about the loss of accessibility will get attention.

Auldwulfe

See, the thing is, I don't want HA builds to go away. But they have a big issue right now. Most of the HA sets themselves unfairly favor Lightning Staves and that makes damage balancing really hard! They can't buff HA sets, or properly manage Empower, because Lightning Staves skew the damage sooo much since they are basically the only viable weapon (and therefore Skills) option. They make 1 or 2 changes and HA builds either crumble to dust or remain top of the mid-game heap. BOTH are terrible for the game! The reason HA builds are so fragile though is sooo obvious: because there is no diversity in build choices!

Developer Comment:
Since we've started working on Heavy Attack build viability in the past year, we've seen a massive surge in their use, which is absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace. While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, and in some rare cases, they're outperforming a standard build. We're cutting down the damage bonus here ever so slightly in hopes that when you have Empower with a bunch of other Heavy Attack bonus sets, the numbers are still nice and juicy, but not as close to a full-on Light Attack build.

If they would just change Lightning Staves channel damage to no longer get HA set damage buffs, then they could probably look at increasing HA sets damage buff, or even increasing Empower damage! This sort of change would only help to give HA builds more real estate to play with, more build opportunities, legitimize HA builds as a viable build option instead of a 1 weapon gimmick, and give HA builds a more stable platform for future balance changes.

It just boggles my mind how they can be supposedly be "working on Heavy Attack build viability", and they see no issues with Lightning Staff being the only viable build option. Or that 1 set, Sergeant's Mail, is the only real viable option to run because of its interaction with Lightning Staves unique channel damage component. They HAVE to know this interaction is an issue because they've already gone through this with Restoration Staff! Except "we can't have Resto Staff putting up big DPS.. nuke it specifically".

It just infuriates me that they refuse to fix the real issues and instead place bandages on everything.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Trejgon wrote: »

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Nerf was over the top and would've been perfectly fine to just make it "against monsters" only.

I am unsure what you are refering to as "over the top", especially with follow up comment on "just make it against monsters"

Teh only HA related nerfs I am seeing in PTS patch notes is empower dropping from 80% more damage to 70% more damage, and empower already was only affecting PvE damage, and the nerf of storm master set, but for this one only "just making it against monsters only" really matters. Unless you are trying to tell me that HA builds are struggling to score HA crit in 3s window between new 5s cd lapses and the new 8s duration lapses....

Test it yourself. Right now Storm Master is only at about 80% up-time even with >50% critical hit chance since it requires a fully-charged HA crit. So dont try to say it wasnt a huge nerf. Show me a parse of yourself with 100% up-time on PTS and i will consider your opinion again.

Is it up 100% on live?

Chase0351 wrote: »

HA’s still hit for 5-6k/tick. They need to cut that in half, at the very least, just like everything else is in cyrodil. Try casting a skill or two and bar swapping once in a while like the rest of us. That’s what everyone else has to do.

I’m not really sure why HA builds even have a place in this game at all. We only have 5 skill buttons to use and a D pad. Most HA build users are sorcs with multiple pets… How much help does one need to complete content?

NuarBlack wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

• Buffs and Debuffs
  • Empower: Reduced this bonus to 70%, down from 80%
    Since we've started working on Heavy Attack build viability in the past year, we've seen a massive surge in their use, which is absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace. While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, and in some rare cases, they're outperforming a standard build. We're cutting down the damage bonus here ever so slightly in hopes that when you have Empower with a bunch of other Heavy Attack bonus sets, the numbers are still nice and juicy, but not as close to a full-on Light Attack build.

• Storm Master:
  • This set’s bonus damage with Light and Heavy Attacks now only works against monsters.
  • Reduced the duration of the bonus to 8 seconds, down from 20 seconds.
  • Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, down from 10.

@ZOS You've completely missed the issue! Storm Master wasn't used in PvP anyway. Empower was not really the issue either. The issue is 100% Sergeant's Mail and Lightning Staves channel damage imbalance with HA sets. Nerfing Storm Master is pointless when other HA buff sets are much more egregious too! Sergeant's Mail buffs 2580 vs Storm Master that only buffs 1542. Poking Empower from 80% -> 70% does absolutely nothing and Empower isn't even the issue to begin with!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/629658/comparing-heavy-attacks

Never confuse people with facts, when their minds are made up.

At this point -- they will drive away the enthusiasm, and players, until the only way the gatekeepers can keep the country club they just drove the plebs out of, is extreme monitization......

There are other games....
I will stay as long as I can still have fun... when they cross the line, I leave... and a LOT of people feel that way.......
Of course, now that Microsoft is a player, and a huge advocate of accessibility... complaints to them about the loss of accessibility will get attention.

Auldwulfe

See, the thing is, I don't want HA builds to go away. But they have a big issue right now. Most of the HA sets themselves unfairly favor Lightning Staves and that makes damage balancing really hard! They can't buff HA sets, or properly manage Empower, because Lightning Staves skew the damage sooo much since they are basically the only viable weapon (and therefore Skills) option. They make 1 or 2 changes and HA builds either crumble to dust or remain top of the mid-game heap. BOTH are terrible for the game! The reason HA builds are so fragile though is sooo obvious: because there is no diversity in build choices!

Developer Comment:
Since we've started working on Heavy Attack build viability in the past year, we've seen a massive surge in their use, which is absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace. While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, and in some rare cases, they're outperforming a standard build. We're cutting down the damage bonus here ever so slightly in hopes that when you have Empower with a bunch of other Heavy Attack bonus sets, the numbers are still nice and juicy, but not as close to a full-on Light Attack build.

If they would just change Lightning Staves channel damage to no longer get HA set damage buffs, then they could probably look at increasing HA sets damage buff, or even increasing Empower damage! This sort of change would only help to give HA builds more real estate to play with, more build opportunities, legitimize HA builds as a viable build option instead of a 1 weapon gimmick, and give HA builds a more stable platform for future balance changes.

It just boggles my mind how they can be supposedly be "working on Heavy Attack build viability", and they see no issues with Lightning Staff being the only viable build option. Or that 1 set, Sergeant's Mail, is the only real viable option to run because of its interaction with Lightning Staves unique channel damage component. They HAVE to know this interaction is an issue because they've already gone through this with Restoration Staff! Except "we can't have Resto Staff putting up big DPS.. nuke it specifically". Why does Lightning Staff get a pass? Why does it get to be the best AOE damage, best single target damage, and range?

It just infuriates me that they refuse to fix the real issues and instead place bandages on everything.

It really is lightning staff specifically. I really wish HA flame staff was viable as if fulfills the fire Mage power fantasy and it is relatively easy to counter in pvp unlike the undogeable lightning channel. HA builds are one trick pony gimmicks as they are now.

Simple changes would be the final tick is the only relevant tick in regards to empower and set procs and maybe even only applies to the primary target. They then could buff flame and fire staff HA options without fearing Lightning staff would get out of hand.

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Yes, storm master was definitely used in pvp, running combat logs every battleground, I could see how many people were using it...A lot.