Templar change ideas

Ren_TheRedFox · March 2023

As we all know, Templar is not the strongest class, both in PvE and PvP. So I have an idea to change Templar a little bit to make them stronger again. As we all know, Templar have the ultimate ability "Rite of Passage", which can later be morphed into "Practiced Incantation" or "Remembrance". However, both morphs have a slight difference. While "Practiced Incantation" has a duration of 8 seconds and allows the player to move freely while casting, "Remembrance" grants the player the buff "Major Protection" for 10 seconds, but the healing only lasts for 4 seconds, giving the player a 10% damage reduction, but the player is not allowed to move while casting. No matter what morph you use, you get 33k resistances while using this ability.
Now I come to my suggestion for improvement. As we can all very well imagine, probably 95% of players use the "Practiced Incantation" morph because the healing is stronger and you get 8 seconds of that 33k Resistances. The other morph is hardly used because you can get "Major Protection" from other abilities like "Blinding Flare". My suggestion would be to change "Remembrance" completely. How about "Remembrance" giving the player a "Holy Armor" that gives the player "Major Protection" and "Minor Resolve" or "Minor Evasion", while only healing the player so that the player is able to deal damage to the other players/NPCs? Now before some say that this would make them way too strong, I would like to point out that Dragonknights have the ultimate ability "Magma Armor" which later transitions into "Corrosive Armor" (the damage moprh that resets all resources and gives the player "infinite" penetration) and "Magma Armor" (which gives the player a damage shield and their teammates a very strong shield for 10 seconds). It would also fit well with the Templar concept, since Templars are "holy knights" after all, and this kind of armor would give a really holy feeling.
I think Templars currently need this change, as our defensive abilities are not as strong as the other class abilities. What do you guys think of the change, would you like it?

Necrotech_Master · March 2023

i dont play a templar healer, but in pve the player loses out on a vast majority of the 33k armor bonus (usually at least 50% of it) because of the armor cap

i would agree that the other morph doesnt make much sense now due to the nerf of major protection, since its an ultimate they could just give it a unique dmg reduction since it only lasts 4 sec and the caster cannot move while its casting anyway

i dont have much experience playing a templar as a healer since my templar is a stam dps right now lol

Ren_TheRedFox · March 2023

@Necrotech_Master

it doesn't have to be for healers though more likely for all 3 roles since tanks could use it in trials and dps and healers could use it in PvP

Necrotech_Master · March 2023

if your a dps, your certainly not using a healing ult most likely, even in pvp

tanks wouldnt be using it in trials because most tanks are using warhorn in trials (in fact i dont think any templar healers i know use this ult in trials, they still end up using war horn or barrier mostly)

the only place i do see this ultimate used frequently anymore is pvp (the 8 sec duration one that allows the caster to move) to provide support for allies in a zerg

Ren_TheRedFox · March 2023

@Necrotech_Master

hehe my friend I can tell you for sure even dps are using healing ults in PvP most likely life giver but I think this skill would be even better than life giver since it would only apply to the player not someone else in the group

gariondavey · March 2023

I'd rather have a holy armor version that does
1) a spell reflect or damage reflect ult like 1h+s ult
Or
2) damage reduction similar to magma armor
Or
3) an aoe aura of healing pulses that don't make you lose control of your character

Ragnarok0130 · March 2023

OP As a templar healer main since 2014 I'd love to get major mending back after our kit was robbed during warden's release.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

tanks wouldnt be using it in trials because most tanks are using warhorn in trials (in fact i dont think any templar healers i know use this ult in trials, they still end up using war horn or barrier mostly)

Nope we use barrier and war horn as healers.

Ren_TheRedFox · March 2023

@Ragnarok0130
hmm thing is nightblades and templars have minor mending already which is awesome ... making heavy restoration staff attacks will give every class the major mending which is awesome .... I don't think templars have a lack of healing abilities more likely defensive ones.... a few patches ago "Living Dark" was that defensive skill we had that protected us from damage ... I agree with everyone who's saying that it was OP at some point for a non ultimate skill cause it basically healed, protected and snared people ... When they nerfed it to flat healing templars lost that protective skill which is still great cause it still heals a lot but we're no longer able to just use one skill to protect ourselves... We also have a shield but let's be honest ... the templar shield is one of the worst in-game. That's why I came up with this post cause I think giving us a defensive ult will help us a lot to fight... templars used to be very strong but jabs got nerfed and we suffered from that a lot.... I know people always say "yeah but you guys have the beam and that one is super strong" thing is though ... the beam is an execute ability ... which means it should been you main damage ability .... Right now you won't see a lot of templars in PvP actually brawling ... most of them are beamplars cause as templar you won't be able to brawl that well in this patch since you'll get stunned like every 2 seconds ... that's why we need that defensive armor skill to get "Brawlplars" back in the game.

Ragnarok0130 · March 2023

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Ragnarok0130
hmm thing is nightblades and templars have minor mending already which is awesome ... making heavy restoration staff attacks will give every class the major mending which is awesome .... I don't think templars have a lack of healing abilities more likely defensive ones.... a few patches ago "Living Dark" was that defensive skill we had that protected us from damage ... I agree with everyone who's saying that it was OP at some point for a non ultimate skill cause it basically healed, protected and snared people ... When they nerfed it to flat healing templars lost that protective skill which is still great cause it still heals a lot but we're no longer able to just use one skill to protect ourselves... We also have a shield but let's be honest ... the templar shield is one of the worst in-game. That's why I came up with this post cause I think giving us a defensive ult will help us a lot to fight... templars used to be very strong but jabs got nerfed and we suffered from that a lot.... I know people always say "yeah but you guys have the beam and that one is super strong" thing is though ... the beam is an execute ability ... which means it should been you main damage ability .... Right now you won't see a lot of templars in PvP actually brawling ... most of them are beamplars cause as templar you won't be able to brawl that well in this patch since you'll get stunned like every 2 seconds ... that's why we need that defensive armor skill to get "Brawlplars" back in the game.

@Ren_TheRedFox I agree with the meat of your post but losing major mending in 2017 while simultaneously giving wardens major mending after they took it away from Templar never sat right with me and smacked of the good ole nerf what's good now to encourage people to but the new class/mythic etc that we all gossip about here on the forums. I'd like major mending back in Templar's kit to even the playing field again due to Templar consistently being nerfed in every role - if we can't be top tier tanks or DPS why not top tier healer again?

ProudMary · March 2023

The first thing they need to do is bring back the original jabs animation. Then we can talk about other changes.

the1andonlyskwex · March 2023

Instead of turning a group healing ultimate (like Remembrance) into just another self heal, I think we should try to make it more useful for healers.

Ren_TheRedFox · March 2023

@the1andonlyskwex

we already have "Practiced Incantation" that's a nice group heal while the healer can move but I think "Remembrance" has to be changed .... cause if you look at all the class ultimate skills you'll see that every class has a defensive skill, damage skill and healing skill. Templars have two damage skills. Sweap and Nova (although Nova is a group utility skill ... so someone has to use the synergy to actually make that ability effective against your enemies ... otherwise it's useless in opinion)... So having a defensive ult would gamechanger for templars in my opinion

kargen27 · March 2023

ProudMary wrote: »

The first thing they need to do is bring back the original jabs animation. Then we can talk about other changes.

the animation is a cosmetic that has nothing to do with how a Templar preforms. It fits better with the change to the skill and is easier to see when stacked with a group.

ProudMary · March 2023

kargen27 wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

The first thing they need to do is bring back the original jabs animation. Then we can talk about other changes.

the animation is a cosmetic that has nothing to do with how a Templar preforms. It fits better with the change to the skill and is easier to see when stacked with a group.

It doesn't fit better. Every other spear animation templars use is a spear of light, not a night hollow stave. Templars are good guys, night hollow is a vampire style. Everything about the new animation is wrong and goes against lore and looks horrible. (more than 75% of people agree with this according to two polls, you're the minority exception)

the1andonlyskwex · March 2023

ProudMary wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

The first thing they need to do is bring back the original jabs animation. Then we can talk about other changes.

the animation is a cosmetic that has nothing to do with how a Templar preforms. It fits better with the change to the skill and is easier to see when stacked with a group.

It doesn't fit better. Every other spear animation templars use is a spear of light, not a night hollow stave. Templars are good guys, night hollow is a vampire style. Everything about the new animation is wrong and goes against lore and looks horrible. (more than 75% of people agree with this according to two polls, you're the minority exception)

I'm sorry, since when does a nighthollow staff glow bright yellow? Games reuse models with different textures/skins all the time.

Ren_TheRedFox · March 2023

@the1andonlyskwex
I really don't want to sound rude or something but this post is not about the jabs .... There are some discussions about the jabs already

notyuu · March 2023

For the record, you're actually wrong about the most popular morph of Rite of Passage, most people take Remembrance due to the fact that you can block cancel the ult and still walk away with 10 seconds of major protections, it used to be good back when MP was 30% reduction but these days it sits in the bin along with every other templar class ult that isn't cresent sweep due to just being junk tier

ZOS_Icy · March 2023

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Ren_TheRedFox · March 2023

@notyuu I don't know why people would use Remembrance for the Major Protection when you can actually use Blinding Flare and have it up all the time .... I used to run Practiced Incantation a lot just because of the 8 seconds healing and the resistances. Like I said I feel like Remembrance is a waste of ult points because of the 4 seconds when I'm not able to move and stick with my group during the channeling time.

notyuu · March 2023

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@notyuu I don't know why people would use Remembrance for the Major Protection when you can actually use Blinding Flare and have it up all the time .... I used to run Practiced Incantation a lot just because of the 8 seconds healing and the resistances. Like I said I feel like Remembrance is a waste of ult points because of the 4 seconds when I'm not able to move and stick with my group during the channeling time.

figured, but this was back in the day when the skill was actually slotted at all, before zos butchered major protection reducing it from 30% down to 10% as it stands now
as I said in my inital post, these days every templar ult that isn't cresent sweep (due to it's high damage + low cost) sits in the bin of worthless junk.

TBH templar needs more than a bit of love given that 5/6 of the ults are literally worthless

Everlasting sweep: damage is lulz tier, DoT effect is neat but not worth it
Crescent sweep: damage is on par with dawnbreaker, dot effect is neat but still meh
Solar prision: The cost is way too high for the effects delivered, even with the exploding tier synergy
Solar disturbance: The cost is still way to high and it's even worse than solar prision, good lord
Remembrance: The major proection nerfed gutted this ults utility, plus It's basically just like spamming HTD with no cost, neat on paper, moot in pratice
Practiced incantation: see above, minus the major protection part

and don't even get me started on the other skills in detail or I will be here all day, but lets just say, templar needs a long hard look at atm to be more than a beambot or healbot (not even a good healbot tbh)

Ren_TheRedFox · March 2023

@notyuu totally agree with you the ults are not great and the skills definitely need a rework... Since bubble and jabs got nerfed I feel like templars are unplayable now unless you play a healer or a beamplar. I'm playing both but even then people start nagging around.... I've heard at least a 1000 times how I'm annoying on my beamplar and beam has to get nerfed cause it's op ... exactly taking away an execute skill will definitely make the class even more playable😒 (love those people .. sometimes I'm wondering if they actually think about it why most of the people are running beamplars instead of brawlplars😒)
When it comes to utility templars can provide "Minor sorcery" and that's all .... we do have some nice passives that provide a damage boost (crit damage) and defenesive boost (more resistances) but well the skills for those have been nerfed to the ground and most of the people won't use them anymore.

I'm actually wondering if templars get buffed next patch again ... probably not but they really need it... but we'll see I guess

notyuu · March 2023

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

Stuff I snipped for brevity

The funny thing is templar isn't even a good healer, all the other classes bar sorc provide the same level of raw healing output while also brining buffs or debuffs or other superior utility to the table.

Literally the only thing that templar has going for it atm is the damn laser, and if you're a stamplar, well then you're crap outta luck, as all they had before was jabs and PoTL but PoTL is getting double slapped with battle spirit (I refuse to beleive that a ~4K burst after 6 seconds vs a player is intendtional) and burning light getting screwed with reduced output and cooldowns that means it fails to work with jabs anymore and they do somewhere between lul and no levels of damage, and this is before you factor in jabs setting off mara's balm consistantly or the fact that evasion exsists and can hadnily cut what little output jabs has down to tripple didget damage, then yu got the tanking nonsense with bubble being the classes only functional defensive tool, but even then it's a damn gimmick which is overcome by simple going on the defensive and not hitting the user, there's also sun shield but good lord, depending on the morph the skill eaither does comically low damage, doing only 4,500 damage if you have 50K hp or tickles the enemy for about the same levels of output, in both cases breaking instantly due to how the scaling vs target numbers vs damage goes, all the while costing as much as every other sheild ability in the game

tl;dr
Healplar lacks utility
Stamplar lacks class skills
Tankplar is entirely based on gimicks
Magplar is a beambot
It's depressing to play Templar atm

Billium813 · March 2023

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

No matter what morph you use, you get 33k resistances while using this ability.

I'm not so sure of that TBH: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/625349/templar-light-weaver-passive-bugged

Vahndamme · April 2023

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

The first thing they need to do is bring back the original jabs animation. Then we can talk about other changes.

the animation is a cosmetic that has nothing to do with how a Templar preforms. It fits better with the change to the skill and is easier to see when stacked with a group.

It doesn't fit better. Every other spear animation templars use is a spear of light, not a night hollow stave. Templars are good guys, night hollow is a vampire style. Everything about the new animation is wrong and goes against lore and looks horrible. (more than 75% of people agree with this according to two polls, you're the minority exception)

I'm sorry, since when does a nighthollow staff glow bright yellow? Games reuse models with different textures/skins all the time.

Shhh.. like he said, you're in the minority big time. It's a dumb animation and should be changed. Only then we can talk any changes, I would even add to that that they gotta include back more jabs power or whatever diversity. Beam is very cool but also very strong, if beam is dialed back a little and jabs boosted and fixed animation. + something unique to templars or like stronger in multiple things. Like the passive in Dawn's Wrath adding time to dots is so useless now. And so much more. Anyways, first animation, then the rest needs a little tweaking and it's all fine.

Jman100582 · April 2023

Some things I would like to see for plar are:

-Backlash bug fixed
-beam reduced execute scaling, it’s already undodgeable. Shouldn’t ALSO be the best execute in the game
-jabs in general get a damage buff considering the 3rd tic was removed (essentially a 25% dmg loss) as well as the brutality buff be put on both morphs of jabs and extended to 15 seconds or maybe even more
-health scaling put back on bubble, plar lacks a health scaling heal for tanks
-blazing shield rework, ability is dead and should be rebuilt from the ground up
-prism and illuminate passives merged into one passive to match dks mountain blessing. Replace prism with maybe a sustain passive based on resource return, plar has garbage sustain across the board and could really use it
-more buffs in the toolkit. Both courage and force buffs fit the class thematically and would be nice for both solo and group play in both pve and pvp

Anyways I know none of these will ever happen but it’s nice to think about

Ren_TheRedFox · April 2023

guys I made a whole post about the templar change ideas you might wanna check that one out

The link to that post:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/630565/quality-of-life-and-balance-change-templars#latest