heal set and damage spell, or heal spell and damage set, just pick ur best

Mara's Balm:

• (5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Where can I find a definition of "negative effects" so that I can know what all counts? Do elemental statuses like Burning or Chilled or Concussed count? Is it only Debuffs? Do named status effects count? Do snares and movement speed penalties count? Does Feared and Silenced count?

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Mara's Balm:

• (5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Where can I find a definition of "negative effects" so that I can know what all counts? Do elemental statuses like Burning or Chilled or Concussed count? Is it only Debuffs? Do named status effects count? Do snares and movement speed penalties count? Does Feared and Silenced count?

all of the above

all cc is negative effects, all dots are negative effects, all status effects are negative effects, all debuffs are negative effects (major/minor or unique from certain sets)

Forgive me if I don't quite know how some of this works, and I can't test this atm:

If I take Physical/Magic Damage, I may receive the Sundered/Overcharged status effect for 4 seconds. Am I also applied with Minor Breach/Minor Magickasteal debuffs for 4 seconds? Same with other effects, like if I take Bleed/Shock Damage, I may be applied with the Hemorrhaging/Concussed status effect for 4 seconds. Am I also applied with Minor Mangle/Minor Vulnerability for 4 seconds?

Or are the Sundered/Overcharged/Hemorrhaging/Concussed status effects just functional renames of the debuffs? Can I get both Sundered and Minor Breach at the same time, and do they stack? I'm curious if Mara's Balm is double dipping on status effects and to be frank, I don't know how status effects really work.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Mara's Balm:

• (5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Where can I find a definition of "negative effects" so that I can know what all counts? Do elemental statuses like Burning or Chilled or Concussed count? Is it only Debuffs? Do named status effects count? Do snares and movement speed penalties count? Does Feared and Silenced count?

so templar jabs (that apply a slow), 2 of the 3 hits will proc the mara heal, razer caltrops reapplies major breach with every tick so they would proc mara heal every tick after the 2nd

this part of mara effect has no cooldown at all, its whenever any negative effect either times out, or gets removed due to being refreshed

Interesting that movement speed effects, like Jabs 0.5 seconds, counts as a "negative effect".

Also, there seems to be a bug (IMO) about standing in AOEs and status effects being reapplied ...

Razor Caltrops:

• Duration: 10 seconds
• Hurl a ball of caltrops that scatter over the target area, dealing 281 Physical Damage every 1 second to enemies inside, and reducing their Movement Speed by 50%. Enemies who take damage from the caltrops have Major Breach applied to them, reducing their Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 4.1 seconds.

So, if I stand in this AOE, with Mara's Balm, for the full 10 seconds, every second I stand in it...

• I get my movement speed reduced by 50% for 1 second, which then gets removed at the end of the 1 second, procing Mara's Balm to heal me
• I get Major Breach for 1 second, which then gets removed at the end of the 1 second, procing Mara's Balm to heal me
• each tick of the Physical Damage may apply a Sundered status effect to me for 4 seconds (1% base chance), which may heal me at the end of the 4 seconds.

IMO, it doesn't make intuitive sense that if I am standing in an AOE, each second the debuff falls off and gets reapplied. I should JUST HAVE THE DEBUFF CONSTANTLY while in the AOE...

And what if I am inflicted with Minor Defile for 10 seconds? Then, after 5 seconds I get Minor Defile re-applied to me? Does the first instance of Minor Defile get removed, procing Mara's Balm, before the debuff timer is reset?

Billium813 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Mara's Balm:

• (5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Where can I find a definition of "negative effects" so that I can know what all counts? Do elemental statuses like Burning or Chilled or Concussed count? Is it only Debuffs? Do named status effects count? Do snares and movement speed penalties count? Does Feared and Silenced count?

all of the above

all cc is negative effects, all dots are negative effects, all status effects are negative effects, all debuffs are negative effects (major/minor or unique from certain sets)

Forgive me if I don't quite know how some of this works, and I can't test this atm:

If I take Physical/Magic Damage, I may receive the Sundered/Overcharged status effect for 4 seconds. Am I also applied with Minor Breach/Minor Magickasteal debuffs for 4 seconds? Same with other effects, like if I take Bleed/Shock Damage, I may be applied with the Hemorrhaging/Concussed status effect for 4 seconds. Am I also applied with Minor Mangle/Minor Vulnerability for 4 seconds?

Or are the Sundered/Overcharged/Hemorrhaging/Concussed status effects just functional renames of the debuffs? Can I get both Sundered and Minor Breach at the same time, and do they stack? I'm curious if Mara's Balm is double dipping on status effects and to be frank, I don't know how status effects really work.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Mara's Balm:

• (5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Where can I find a definition of "negative effects" so that I can know what all counts? Do elemental statuses like Burning or Chilled or Concussed count? Is it only Debuffs? Do named status effects count? Do snares and movement speed penalties count? Does Feared and Silenced count?

so templar jabs (that apply a slow), 2 of the 3 hits will proc the mara heal, razer caltrops reapplies major breach with every tick so they would proc mara heal every tick after the 2nd

this part of mara effect has no cooldown at all, its whenever any negative effect either times out, or gets removed due to being refreshed

Interesting that movement speed effects, like Jabs 0.5 seconds, counts as a "negative effect".

Also, there seems to be a bug (IMO) about standing in AOEs and status effects being reapplied ...

Razor Caltrops:

• Duration: 10 seconds
• Hurl a ball of caltrops that scatter over the target area, dealing 281 Physical Damage every 1 second to enemies inside, and reducing their Movement Speed by 50%. Enemies who take damage from the caltrops have Major Breach applied to them, reducing their Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 4.1 seconds.

So, if I stand in this AOE, with Mara's Balm, for the full 10 seconds, every second I stand in it...

• I get my movement speed reduced by 50% for 1 second, which then gets removed at the end of the 1 second, procing Mara's Balm to heal me
• I get Major Breach for 1 second, which then gets removed at the end of the 1 second, procing Mara's Balm to heal me
• each tick of the Physical Damage may apply a Sundered status effect to me for 4 seconds (1% base chance), which may heal me at the end of the 4 seconds.

IMO, it doesn't make intuitive sense that if I am standing in an AOE, each second the debuff falls off and gets reapplied. I should JUST HAVE THE DEBUFF CONSTANTLY while in the AOE...

And what if I am inflicted with Minor Defile for 10 seconds? Then, after 5 seconds I get Minor Defile re-applied to me? Does the first instance of Minor Defile get removed, procing Mara's Balm, before the debuff timer is reset?

my understanding with something like sundered is that sundered itself is just an instant burst of dmg and applies minor breach for 6 sec, so it wont stack with minor breach because its basically doing the same thing

but every time you deal any kind of dmg, you have a chance to proc a status effect, IE a negative effect

for your example of caltrops

the dot and the slow is not refreshed every tick, unless you enter/leave the area of effect
the major breach technically lasts for 4 seconds, but is refreshed every time you take a dot tick

in your example with minor defile, yes that is correct, if its reapplied early, that "removes" the old effect and applies a new effect, hence it is removing a negative effect (a place that i noted a similar occurrence was something like the templar jabs, the slow is like 2-4 sec, but is refreshed on each "jab", so the 2nd and 3rd hits of jab would proc mara because they are removing the previous snare and reapplying)

that can be said for any dots (so you hit someone with poison injection which is a negative dot that lasts for 20 sec, if you hit them with poison injection again, say 5 seconds later, you proc mara because it refreshed, removing the old effect and applying the new 20 sec dot)

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Mara's Balm:

• (5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Where can I find a definition of "negative effects" so that I can know what all counts? Do elemental statuses like Burning or Chilled or Concussed count? Is it only Debuffs? Do named status effects count? Do snares and movement speed penalties count? Does Feared and Silenced count?

all of the above

all cc is negative effects, all dots are negative effects, all status effects are negative effects, all debuffs are negative effects (major/minor or unique from certain sets)

Forgive me if I don't quite know how some of this works, and I can't test this atm:

If I take Physical/Magic Damage, I may receive the Sundered/Overcharged status effect for 4 seconds. Am I also applied with Minor Breach/Minor Magickasteal debuffs for 4 seconds? Same with other effects, like if I take Bleed/Shock Damage, I may be applied with the Hemorrhaging/Concussed status effect for 4 seconds. Am I also applied with Minor Mangle/Minor Vulnerability for 4 seconds?

Or are the Sundered/Overcharged/Hemorrhaging/Concussed status effects just functional renames of the debuffs? Can I get both Sundered and Minor Breach at the same time, and do they stack? I'm curious if Mara's Balm is double dipping on status effects and to be frank, I don't know how status effects really work.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Mara's Balm:

• (5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Where can I find a definition of "negative effects" so that I can know what all counts? Do elemental statuses like Burning or Chilled or Concussed count? Is it only Debuffs? Do named status effects count? Do snares and movement speed penalties count? Does Feared and Silenced count?

so templar jabs (that apply a slow), 2 of the 3 hits will proc the mara heal, razer caltrops reapplies major breach with every tick so they would proc mara heal every tick after the 2nd

this part of mara effect has no cooldown at all, its whenever any negative effect either times out, or gets removed due to being refreshed

Interesting that movement speed effects, like Jabs 0.5 seconds, counts as a "negative effect".

Also, there seems to be a bug (IMO) about standing in AOEs and status effects being reapplied ...

Razor Caltrops:

• Duration: 10 seconds
• Hurl a ball of caltrops that scatter over the target area, dealing 281 Physical Damage every 1 second to enemies inside, and reducing their Movement Speed by 50%. Enemies who take damage from the caltrops have Major Breach applied to them, reducing their Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 4.1 seconds.

So, if I stand in this AOE, with Mara's Balm, for the full 10 seconds, every second I stand in it...

• I get my movement speed reduced by 50% for 1 second, which then gets removed at the end of the 1 second, procing Mara's Balm to heal me
• I get Major Breach for 1 second, which then gets removed at the end of the 1 second, procing Mara's Balm to heal me
• each tick of the Physical Damage may apply a Sundered status effect to me for 4 seconds (1% base chance), which may heal me at the end of the 4 seconds.

IMO, it doesn't make intuitive sense that if I am standing in an AOE, each second the debuff falls off and gets reapplied. I should JUST HAVE THE DEBUFF CONSTANTLY while in the AOE...

And what if I am inflicted with Minor Defile for 10 seconds? Then, after 5 seconds I get Minor Defile re-applied to me? Does the first instance of Minor Defile get removed, procing Mara's Balm, before the debuff timer is reset?

in your example with minor defile, yes that is correct, if its reapplied early, that "removes" the old effect and applies a new effect, hence it is removing a negative effect (a place that i noted a similar occurrence was something like the templar jabs, the slow is like 2-4 sec, but is refreshed on each "jab", so the 2nd and 3rd hits of jab would proc mara because they are removing the previous snare and reapplying)

that can be said for any dots (so you hit someone with poison injection which is a negative dot that lasts for 20 sec, if you hit them with poison injection again, say 5 seconds later, you proc mara because it refreshed, removing the old effect and applying the new 20 sec dot)

I feel like that doesn't make intuitive sense? Is it just me?

If I apply a debuff, re-applying it again should just renew the timer for the debuff if the original debuff is still active. I don't see how applying a debuff that the target is already affected by, removes the original debuff (essentially curing them), then re-applies a new instance.

I mean, from a programming stance and tracking who applied what debuff... I suppose there is a reason it has to be that way. Maybe this is just a fundamental way the game HAS to work... but it makes Mara's Balm trigger ALOT more than I think it makes sense to.

Billium813 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Mara's Balm:

• (5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Where can I find a definition of "negative effects" so that I can know what all counts? Do elemental statuses like Burning or Chilled or Concussed count? Is it only Debuffs? Do named status effects count? Do snares and movement speed penalties count? Does Feared and Silenced count?

all of the above

all cc is negative effects, all dots are negative effects, all status effects are negative effects, all debuffs are negative effects (major/minor or unique from certain sets)

Forgive me if I don't quite know how some of this works, and I can't test this atm:

If I take Physical/Magic Damage, I may receive the Sundered/Overcharged status effect for 4 seconds. Am I also applied with Minor Breach/Minor Magickasteal debuffs for 4 seconds? Same with other effects, like if I take Bleed/Shock Damage, I may be applied with the Hemorrhaging/Concussed status effect for 4 seconds. Am I also applied with Minor Mangle/Minor Vulnerability for 4 seconds?

Or are the Sundered/Overcharged/Hemorrhaging/Concussed status effects just functional renames of the debuffs? Can I get both Sundered and Minor Breach at the same time, and do they stack? I'm curious if Mara's Balm is double dipping on status effects and to be frank, I don't know how status effects really work.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Mara's Balm:

• (5 items) When a negative effect is removed from you, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

Where can I find a definition of "negative effects" so that I can know what all counts? Do elemental statuses like Burning or Chilled or Concussed count? Is it only Debuffs? Do named status effects count? Do snares and movement speed penalties count? Does Feared and Silenced count?

so templar jabs (that apply a slow), 2 of the 3 hits will proc the mara heal, razer caltrops reapplies major breach with every tick so they would proc mara heal every tick after the 2nd

this part of mara effect has no cooldown at all, its whenever any negative effect either times out, or gets removed due to being refreshed

Interesting that movement speed effects, like Jabs 0.5 seconds, counts as a "negative effect".

Also, there seems to be a bug (IMO) about standing in AOEs and status effects being reapplied ...

Razor Caltrops:

• Duration: 10 seconds
• Hurl a ball of caltrops that scatter over the target area, dealing 281 Physical Damage every 1 second to enemies inside, and reducing their Movement Speed by 50%. Enemies who take damage from the caltrops have Major Breach applied to them, reducing their Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 4.1 seconds.

So, if I stand in this AOE, with Mara's Balm, for the full 10 seconds, every second I stand in it...

• I get my movement speed reduced by 50% for 1 second, which then gets removed at the end of the 1 second, procing Mara's Balm to heal me
• I get Major Breach for 1 second, which then gets removed at the end of the 1 second, procing Mara's Balm to heal me
• each tick of the Physical Damage may apply a Sundered status effect to me for 4 seconds (1% base chance), which may heal me at the end of the 4 seconds.

IMO, it doesn't make intuitive sense that if I am standing in an AOE, each second the debuff falls off and gets reapplied. I should JUST HAVE THE DEBUFF CONSTANTLY while in the AOE...

And what if I am inflicted with Minor Defile for 10 seconds? Then, after 5 seconds I get Minor Defile re-applied to me? Does the first instance of Minor Defile get removed, procing Mara's Balm, before the debuff timer is reset?

in your example with minor defile, yes that is correct, if its reapplied early, that "removes" the old effect and applies a new effect, hence it is removing a negative effect (a place that i noted a similar occurrence was something like the templar jabs, the slow is like 2-4 sec, but is refreshed on each "jab", so the 2nd and 3rd hits of jab would proc mara because they are removing the previous snare and reapplying)

that can be said for any dots (so you hit someone with poison injection which is a negative dot that lasts for 20 sec, if you hit them with poison injection again, say 5 seconds later, you proc mara because it refreshed, removing the old effect and applying the new 20 sec dot)

I feel like that doesn't make intuitive sense? Is it just me?

If I apply a debuff, re-applying it again should just renew the timer for the debuff if the original debuff is still active. I don't see how applying a debuff that the target is already affected by, removes the original debuff (essentially curing them), then re-applies a new instance.

I mean, from a programming stance and tracking who applied what debuff... I suppose there is a reason it has to be that way. Maybe this is just a fundamental way the game HAS to work... but it makes Mara's Balm trigger ALOT more than I think it makes sense to.

yeah, thats why maras was super OP during that PTS and they had several balance passes of it after

but thats how it works, when you refresh a dot or debuff, its effectively removing the old instance and just applying a new one

with its current setup, in pvp each time a negative effect is cleansed that means ~800 heal (i think its tooltip is like 1600, but halves from battle spirit)

now you can see how this is a problem with say templar jabs, they do not hit that hard in pvp, and the fact 2/3 of the hits are also giving the target an 800 hp heal means its negating half (or more) of the dmg that jabs is even doing

elemental susceptibility could potentially have the same issue, it has 1 long duration effect (major breach), and then reapplies 3 status effects every 7 seconds (burning, concussed, chilled) (concussed itself is just a instant burst of dmg but applies minor vulnerability for 6 sec, chilled is a snare + dot but might be considered the same effect, and burning is just a dot), so every 7 sec it reapplies 3 negative effects that are short duration of 6 seconds, but is also halfway to straight up procing the mara full cleanse too

There is a set on the golden right now that only purges all effects, no healing, that has a cool down of 30 seconds.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

but thats how it works, when you refresh a dot or debuff, its effectively removing the old instance and just applying a new one

with its current setup, in pvp each time a negative effect is cleansed that means ~800 heal (i think its tooltip is like 1600, but halves from battle spirit)

now you can see how this is a problem with say templar jabs, they do not hit that hard in pvp, and the fact 2/3 of the hits are also giving the target an 800 hp heal means its negating half (or more) of the dmg that jabs is even doing

"Well isn't that just the Oddest thing! A dagger that heals people. Who would make such a thing, and why? I absolutely adore it!"