skill line resets NEED to happen

rotatorkuf · May 2014

Erlindur wrote: »

The "whole picture" is that it affects the entire economy as a whole. If we include craft lines in your suggestion, we simply make 3 professions irrelevant. What's the point in spending points in alchemy, when I can cheaply take my points from clothing, put them in alchemy, craft a few stacks of potions, and then put the points back at clothing. If everyone does it, we simply collapsed the potion market. Same for provisioning and enchanting.

that is not an accurate whole picture though,

you can ALREADY do this, have i not provided enough examples?

i make an alt for pots, it'll take me a day or two to level him up to get enough skill points (or i can get a friend to walk me through grabbing skyshards for skill points, don't even have to level), now i have a permanent pot maker, (why would i need to buy pots from anyone?)

besides this, i can already have max alchemist/enchanter/blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking/provisioning

SEE 300+ skill points!!!!!!

Aodhkinneb18_ESO · May 2014

I believe they should just make it free or small price to reset individual skill lines.
Its one of the best things about swtor I can respec and test different ideas without getting charged.

While here there is plenty of points,it still feels limited when you have bad morphs and skills not working as intended.Even if that wasn't the case,I still think people could end up being trapped in their specs. It just feels like the current system limits testing and trying of new ideas.

They said themselves they wanted pvp to be self balancing,how can that happen if for most people the price to respec puts them off experimenting.

Seroczynski · May 2014

This does not NEED to happen. You think this needs to happen. That's something completely different. In my opinion, respeccing shrines are good as they are.

rotatorkuf · May 2014

Aodhkinneb18_ESO wrote: »

I believe they should just make it free or small price to reset individual skill lines.
Its one of the best things about swtor I can respec and test different ideas without getting charged.

While here there is plenty of points,it still feels limited when you have bad morphs and skills not working as intended.Even if that wasn't the case,I still think people could end up being trapped in their specs. It just feels like the current system limits testing and trying of new ideas.

They said themselves they wanted pvp to be self balancing,how can that happen if for most people the price to respec puts them off experimenting.

i agree, but unfortunately we live in a world of sadists and pessimists that believe if you did this, the world would collapse on itself

exaggerations aside, i think free respec would be awesome, and yes it was awesome in SWTOR, but, SWTOR had a lot of gold sinks, this game is young and doesn't have a lot of gold sinks, so they need it to keep it people's money busy

point is, i think the propositions made by me (and elindur) would keep this idea of a gold sink intact, while allowing for more efficient respeccing

Erlindur · May 2014

Then simply build your alchemist/enchanter/blacksmith/tailor/woodworker/provisioner and leave crafting trees out of your suggestion. Is that too hard?

rotatorkuf · May 2014

Seroczynski wrote: »

This does not NEED to happen. You think this needs to happen. That's something completely different. In my opinion, respeccing shrines are good as they are.

why? how? what would be so bad about the suggestion being made?

rotatorkuf · May 2014

Erlindur wrote: »

Then simply build your alchemist/enchanter/blacksmith/tailor/woodworker/provisioner and leave crafting trees out of your suggestion. Is that too hard?

like i said, i'm not opposed to this idea

unfortunately, you and that other guy keep trying to make a very irrelevant and very invalid argument

i was just trying to paint a clearer picture for everyone

Seroczynski · May 2014

rotatorkuf wrote: »

Seroczynski wrote: »

This does not NEED to happen. You think this needs to happen. That's something completely different. In my opinion, respeccing shrines are good as they are.

why? how? what would be so bad about the suggestion being made?

I have respecced once to change the morphs I thought I could do better, cost me 12.700g and we're done. I might respec later on, once I reach VR10, but that's just because I want to get rid of some skills I see as useless once you reach max. level, just to make me feel good. I need to fork out about 20.000g for that, no problem getting that amount of money at VR5+. If you don't have the money to respec, get some skyshards and wait a bit until you do. As you say, enough skillpoints available to do what you like, you can life a little longer with a morph that could have been chosen otherwise.

rotatorkuf · May 2014

Seroczynski wrote: »

rotatorkuf wrote: »

Seroczynski wrote: »

This does not NEED to happen. You think this needs to happen. That's something completely different. In my opinion, respeccing shrines are good as they are.

why? how? what would be so bad about the suggestion being made?

I have respecced once to change the morphs I thought I could do better, cost me 12.700g and we're done. I might respec later on, once I reach VR10, but that's just because I want to get rid of some skills I see as useless once you reach max. level, just to make me feel good. I need to fork out about 20.000g for that, no problem getting that amount of money at VR5+. If you don't have the money to respec, get some skyshards and wait a bit until you do. As you say, enough skillpoints available to do what you like, you can life a little longer with a morph that could have been chosen otherwise.

couple of things that i consider "wrong" with this concept of yours

1. just because you are okay with only having 1 respec, doesn't mean everyone should have to be okay with it...more importantly, it doesn't affect you at all negatively if i can respec "cheaper" (and more efficiently), when you will ALSO be able to respec at the same rate, and thus be able to use that money for something else....because you choose not to respec, this DOES affect other people negatively (because i HAVE to respec to try other morphs)....because i choose to respec cheaply, this DOES NOT affect you negatively (because you don't have to respec more expensively)

2. you are not seeing the whole picture here, you say you are fine with only spending 12.7k and maybe later on 20k....a total of 32.7k....that's cool....but what if i want to spend 60k on respecs, but SPEND IT EFFICIENTLY by only respeccing skill lines or morphs each and every time....i just spent more money than you, but i spent it efficiently because of a "different" mechanic....thus, money was never an issue and your argument is pointless

Kroin · May 2014

That would be a creat idear to only reset the skillline you want.

Akuydab14_ESO · May 2014

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Well, people aren't going to like this, but ...

... my humble opinion is that you live with the decisions you've made for your char.

It's a nice privilege to change your skills. Why should that not cost something?

Myself? Totally enjoying my char and have spent zero gold on respecc. Not even sure where the shrine is to get respecc and skill changes. Sure, I've had a couple of bad morphs myself, but there's plenty of other skills to suit my playstyle.

I imagine when I am unhappy with my char build I will just start a new char ... but I don't see that happening soon.

You're an idiot. This is a video game, not some life lesson. I don't care how you played your paper pencil rpg's two decades ago, this is now, and people want this ***. Decisions? Privilege? It's a MMO bro not real life. Also you sound super casual... Just leave.

Seroczynski · May 2014

rotatorkuf wrote: »

couple of things that i consider "wrong" with this concept of yours

1. just because you are okay with only having 1 respec, doesn't mean everyone should have to be okay with it...more importantly, it doesn't affect you at all negatively if i can respec "cheaper" (and more efficiently), when you will ALSO be able to respec at the same rate, and thus be able to use that money for something else....because you choose not to respec, this DOES affect other people negatively (because i HAVE to respec to try other morphs)....because i choose to respec cheaply, this DOES NOT affect you negatively (because you don't have to respec more expensively)

2. you are not seeing the whole picture here, you say you are fine with only spending 12.7k and maybe later on 20k....a total of 32.7k....that's cool....but what if i want to spend 60k on respecs, but SPEND IT EFFICIENTLY by only respeccing skill lines or morphs each and every time....i just spent more money than you, but i spent it efficiently because of a "different" mechanic....thus, money was never an issue and your argument is pointless

I understand your points, but I am only trying to convince you that this does not NEED to be changed. I am still under the impression that you think this needs to be changed. In the meantime, there are still several quests bugged, server latency issues, broken skill lines and other bug preventing people from experiencing this game as it is intended. If you look at the bigger picture here, everything regarding the respeccing aspect of the game just comes down to personal preferences. As you can see, both you and me think different on the issue. You say it doesn't affect me negatively in any way if it would be changed, and you are correct. But I don't see why it should be changed in the first place, as I don't think anything is wrong with it.

So while I can understand why you want to see it changed, it's more like a request towards Zenimax to rethink their point towards respeccing. Whatever they decide should be up to them, and the people playing this game so abide by that. It's their game, and you can't have everything to be as you like.

So once again, my final thought on this is that this does not require any attention at all at this early period after the game launch where there are so many other, more important things that need to get fixed before fine-tuning this (awesome) game.

rotatorkuf · May 2014

Seroczynski wrote: »

rotatorkuf wrote: »

couple of things that i consider "wrong" with this concept of yours

1. just because you are okay with only having 1 respec, doesn't mean everyone should have to be okay with it...more importantly, it doesn't affect you at all negatively if i can respec "cheaper" (and more efficiently), when you will ALSO be able to respec at the same rate, and thus be able to use that money for something else....because you choose not to respec, this DOES affect other people negatively (because i HAVE to respec to try other morphs)....because i choose to respec cheaply, this DOES NOT affect you negatively (because you don't have to respec more expensively)

2. you are not seeing the whole picture here, you say you are fine with only spending 12.7k and maybe later on 20k....a total of 32.7k....that's cool....but what if i want to spend 60k on respecs, but SPEND IT EFFICIENTLY by only respeccing skill lines or morphs each and every time....i just spent more money than you, but i spent it efficiently because of a "different" mechanic....thus, money was never an issue and your argument is pointless

I understand your points, but I am only trying to convince you that this does not NEED to be changed. I am still under the impression that you think this needs to be changed. In the meantime, there are still several quests bugged, server latency issues, broken skill lines and other bug preventing people from experiencing this game as it is intended. If you look at the bigger picture here, everything regarding the respeccing aspect of the game just comes down to personal preferences. As you can see, both you and me think different on the issue. You say it doesn't affect me negatively in any way if it would be changed, and you are correct. But I don't see why it should be changed in the first place, as I don't think anything is wrong with it.

So while I can understand why you want to see it changed, it's more like a request towards Zenimax to rethink their point towards respeccing. Whatever they decide should be up to them, and the people playing this game so abide by that. It's their game, and you can't have everything to be as you like.

So once again, my final thought on this is that this does not require any attention at all at this early period after the game launch where there are so many other, more important things that need to get fixed before fine-tuning this (awesome) game.

yes, there are tons of issues that are higher priority, some of them affect some portion of the players, other affect other players, others affect other players, most gamebreaking is probably bugged main quests....but, with that being considered...

this affects everyone only positively (if you think about being able to explore your class fully and 'efficiently')

i don't think your opinion is wrong, i just think it is irrelevant

why?

because if they do change this, you will notice zero effect on your gameplay experience

if they don't change this? i (and others who wish to fully optimize their class) WILL experience a 'negative' effect to our gameplay experience

how is that okay with you? as you said, it won't affect you negatively at all, so why be against it?? it's just being ignorant to be honest

if i can buy a car for 10k, but you have no interest in that car, you'd rather get a car for 5k because it will get you to where you need to go anyway, why should you be against me getting a discount on the car i want when it doesn't affect you at all? and if you end up developing interest in that 10k car, you can get it at the same price i got it

you haven't really provided a legitimate reason for being against this other than "i don't care for it, i don't want you to have it, even though it doesn't affect me at all"

ALL THAT BEING SAID, i don't really think they should give this a high priority or the highest priority, my use of the word "need" was to give this some attention by the zenimax people....as i really do think it should be looked at...at some point soon when time allows

7788b14_ESO · May 2014

Noswell wrote: »

Well, all the specious quasi-logic claims aside, the point I'm trying to make is that it's not the legitimate players who would be gaming the system, and the cost is so high that it seems to me they must be trying to keep players from being able to switch back and forth in certain trees without a huge barrier, and the only one I can think of that would be most likely to lead to gold creation is the crafting trees. Hireling mail/dupe bugs spring to mind for example.

The truth is I would also like cheaper targeted respecs, I'm just trying to figure out WHY they have the current huge costs, because I'm sure they have a reason.

I remember reading at first they didn't want people to be able to respect at all so this is probably their compromise.

I notice in other games which aren't so hard to respect the sky has not fallen and the system still works.

htoncic · May 2014

Why in the world do people keep bringing up crafting, and the so-called abuse with it? The OP made an argument about respeccing morphs. There is nothing in the crafting skill lines that you can morph! Therefore, this thread obviously has nothing at all to do with crafting. No one would be able to do a damn thing with those skills if the suggested method were implemented. Is reading that hard?

Noswell · May 2014

htoncic wrote: »

Why in the world do people keep bringing up crafting, and the so-called abuse with it? The OP made an argument about respeccing morphs. There is nothing in the crafting skill lines that you can morph! Therefore, this thread obviously has nothing at all to do with crafting. No one would be able to do a damn thing with those skills if the suggested method were implemented. Is reading that hard?

Here's the reason I brought it up. To figure out what would be an acceptable change to ZOS to the respec system, morphs or no morphs, it seems like one would have to know what the rationale for the current absurdly expensive system is, in order to suggest changes that still accomplish their goals while making respecs more convenient for the players. The only reason I could think of would be to prevent some kind of gold-making shenanigans, so I was brainstorming and crafting was the only thing I could come up with.

I know that it may seem silly to try and consolidate player's wishes with the developers intentions when suggesting changes, and it's even harder for me since reading is indeed very hard, but that was why I brought it up.

Nooblet · May 2014

I feel its working fine as it is, and I am not looking forward to respecing my 205 skill points.

But I certainly would not be opposed to offering a morph respec, that is only available to respec your current morph to the opposite morph for a decent fee. Adding other skills/passives such as crafts should probably not be included.

Musonius · May 2014

Morphing is just another of the bad ideas in this game.

InvictoNZ · May 2014

There needs to be one more shrine for Morph resets. Just the morph points, leave all the base skills alone.

Carafina34 · May 2014

I think the money cost for a lot of things is wildly inflated. maybe 300g per respec rather than 300g (or w/e) per point.

Hiply · May 2014

Stick a timer on it, once every XX days, make it inexpensive but scaled not by level but rather by how often you want to respec, and call it a day.

1st complete respec; you didn't know what you were doing and you're level 15? 1k for the whole thing. You're VR10 and you've min-maxed your character 20 times now? 100k. How hard is this?

As long as the timer is such that people can't bounce at will between FOTM builds then who does it hurt? Same thing for crafting...if respecs are on a timer and scale by number of times you've respec'd you're not swapping to craft pots and swapping back.

This isn't complicated.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · May 2014

They can easily make crafting un-respecable. Crafting tooltips aren't misleading anyways, unlike many skill tooltips. Many Morph's I picked were a complete waste of skillpoints. Their added effect was either too weak or didn't work. Sea of Flames is one of which i geatly regret. You have to have the enemy die to that little 40 damage tick of fire damage for it to give you MP back, and the skills says anything that dies within the sea of flames would give you MP back. "Killed by sea of flames" and "Dies within sea of flames" are totally different things. This is just one example of the many misleading tooltips that if worded correctly I would not have touched.

I think when 1.1 hits they should just respec all but our crafting skills for free.

scruffycavetroll · May 2014

i think that if they ever do massive retooling of abilities they'll give free resets.

Nooblet · May 2014

Musonius wrote: »

Morphing is just another of the bad ideas in this game.

Completely disagree.

Smogg · May 2014

@rotatorkuf
Free respecing does not affect everyone positively. Part of my enjoyment of the game is picking morphs and knowing I am making an important choise. If the re-spec is trivial, then picking skills and morphs would loose meaning, and next step would be just to make both morphs available all the time.
Secondly to me a unique selection is more important to me than being able to explore everything my class has to offer.
In short: Free respec would affect me in a negative way.

No, please keep it expensive to change skills and morphs. They could even add a timer that increased with each reset along with the gold cost if they wanted to improve the system.

Mix · May 2014

I think the respec fee is fine. It makes you carefully consider your skill points AND your morphs.

The argument that you want to be able to try out other morphs/spec out of bugged morphs. Well the bugged ones should be fixed, not a different respec ability added to get around them. You want to try a different morph - you pay for it! I went until 50 with a morph where i decided the other one was better because I didn't want to pay to respec (yet). It did NOT greatly effect my playstyle or enjoyment of the game. In fact it had very little effect at all.

Yes, tooltips need updating. Not the respec system!

30k will be around the maximum cost to respec (i heard 300 skill pts is the max, or 302). At level 50/V1 I had 126 skill points. Yes, you need to carefully consider your respec. I like this. It makes the decision to respec non-trivial. I rarely sell anything on guild store/chat and I make gold at a rapid rate (and then spend it on bag space/bank space/horses) but in the near future I will not have anything more to spend it on!.

tl:dr - Fix the bugged morphs, clarify the tooltips. Do NOT change the respec system.

Shillen · May 2014

Sure, make it so you can respec only one line, but make it cost 3x as much. I'd be fine with that. Doing it for 100 per point is too cheap by far though.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · May 2014

Smogg wrote: »

@rotatorkuf
Free respecing does not affect everyone positively. Part of my enjoyment of the game is picking morphs and knowing I am making an important choise. If the re-spec is trivial, then picking skills and morphs would loose meaning, and next step would be just to make both morphs available all the time.
Secondly to me a unique selection is more important to me than being able to explore everything my class has to offer.
In short: Free respec would affect me in a negative way.

No, please keep it expensive to change skills and morphs. They could even add a timer that increased with each reset along with the gold cost if they wanted to improve the system.

Then they can just repick the same things and not affected. They can even pick things known to not work if they were satisfied with unworking skills

kasain · May 2014

Personaly, I wish they would show the ability and trees. Some skills I don't unlock as they sound horrible. But if I invested in them the morph would be better. I find this out from other people. Their would be skills I would not of invested in and others I wouldn't of thought of, but now would, if I had the skill layout in front of me.

And I don't feel I should have to look up online for it. If they can't add it to the skill menu, they should have a NPC teacher for all classes. They can say what the ability does and what it can become when morphed.

reggielee · May 2014

i would dearly love the ability to respec just a few points at a time to correct the one ability i hated the morph of (heck, one morph went from a nice ranged spell to a melee range, wtf) Indeed, i went to go respec and at this early point in my char development it was only 6k to respec, but what actually stopped me was trying to remember my exact build so I didnt forget and go with some other path with all the myriad options. now I could have screen shotted my set up, or wrote down key points but in the end I said screw it, ill wait till i have more mistakes in my build to make it worth my while.

i do see the point in the some of the arguments to prevent crafting up wads of gear then switching out, but surely there could be some compromise and allow to "undo" one point within a short time of using it. some sort of amnesty period, an oops factor