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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Auction house is a must!
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Morrawind✭✭✭Looking at all the bugs and the state the game is in now I still hope that the developers just didn't have time to implement a decent trade system like an AH.
My sub ends tomorrow but i will keep an eye on the patch notes. I still think we will get an auction house.
So long guys. have fun. With or without an Auction house ...3 -
methjester✭✭✭
I would take Everquest's bizarre over this mess of a system. The way before that was an assortment of /shouts and message board deals. At least EQ had a hub zone for players to gather. That's impossible in this game. EQ2 added auction houses, x-faction to boot with no ill effects. The game didn't skip a beat, nor did EQ, it was welcome.
If there were a central trading hub here, it wouldn't be all that bad. Just wait til the Guilds start bidding and winning on Kiosks. Oh the hurt feelings then!! The anti crowd will be begging for an auction house when guilds won't let them play.
Edited by methjester on May 2, 2014 10:27PM3 -
Allyah✭✭✭methjester wrote: »[...]The anti crowd will be begging for an auction house when guilds won't let them play.
Or they'll be playing the way they already have been... self-sufficiently.3 -
alphawolph✭✭✭So if we have a guild kiosk, wouldn't that mean the biggest trade guilds would have the kiosk most often? If so, wouldn't that mean that that guild (or 2 or 3 of the biggest guilds) will control all the pricing? Like a monopoly?
Yes, all the people that don't want an AH cause people control it, are going to hate it when a couple powerful guilds hold them forever.4 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
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He doesn't have to read all 18 pages to see the Straw Man you're trying to build here Makkir. Because you're assuming everyone who wants an auction house are just lazy players who want an easy way to rush to the end of the game. And that's just not accurate.
I can assure you the core of any argument I make regarding an auction house is not this. Some players who want an auction house are lazy, but it's really not the argument. My concerns are directly tied to my comments about undercutting and devaluing gold. Do I understand your viewpoint? Absolutely. Do I like it/agree? No.
Many of us want an auction house because it would allow us to enjoy the game more. It has absolutely nothing to do with being lazy or wanting to reach the endgame in a week. So you're bringing a false context to this debate - and that's basically what a Straw Man Argument is.
An auction house brings convenience to many. You can list your item and walk away and let the game sell it for you. The argument was the last sentence, that an MMO shouldn't be convenient or easy, but rewarding for hard work.
The two supporting statements for this argument are
-AH's bring convenience (convenient)
-Shouldn't be able to reach end game within a week (easy)
As I've said before many times, I would argue the current economy actually encourages people to rush to the end. Because it makes finding the materials you need so difficult a lot of people just say to hell with it and don't take their character and crafts as seriously as they would like to until reaching level 50.
??? An auction house would encourage people to rush to the end as well. If you knew you could just spend a few gold pieces(keep in mind undercutting) at level 50 to buy all your epics then why would you spend the time to learn and craft? At least right now (from what I know the best items are player created, right?) you can be self sufficient by learning a craft, gather for yourself, and then craft your epic/legendary gear. Outside of repairs and a mount, for what do you really need gold? Obviously I have some logic here, because Zenimax intentionally did not put a Auction House in game. They've made statements why they chose not to do so.
Additionally, what do you mean by difficulty in finding materials? I was in Cyrodiil the other day and filled up my backpack with crafting mats just from walking around an hour. The world is littered with nodes. Are you talking about epic and legendary crafting materials? Like traits and/or legendary quality enchantments? OK I can see your point there, BUT why make them easy for everyone to obtain? The lack of the AH adds value for those rare and hard to find items you have. Part of "enjoyment" in an MMO is finding a buyer for your rare unwanted items. I am sorry if it isn't an enjoyment for you.
So if you really do want players to take their time and enjoy leveling up their characters without feeling rushed - you should really consider supporting an auction house. Because that's exactly the effect one would have on many players, including myself.
They should take time to enjoy ALL aspects of an MMO- that includes haggling, bargaining, trading, buying and selling wares. I don't necessarily like raiding, so to convenience me they should add raid vendors where I can purchase equally powerful gear for gold/points/tokens/whatever so I don't have to raid? If you don't want to deal with finding buyers, just unload you unwanted items to a vendor then, because obviously you don't care how much your items will fetch with the addition of the AH
Comments in bold.
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭. jesus soon everyone is asking an auction house app for their smartphones so they don't miss their precious armor by getting outbidded.
@NukaCola
I said this same thing already. It's the MMO age of handme downs and entitlement. The MMO gamer pool now is garbage and littered with kids compared to what it was.
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Chryos✭✭✭✭I'll say no, auction houses or auction zones take away from the cities making them feel emptier. In whatever way trading needs to be improved it should be focused on keeping the cities feel alive and full. No one likes a ghost town.
I'll say yes to trade channel.
Side note: However being the loyal guildmate that I am, I only do business within my guild, we take care of each other like that and buy or donate to each other. It's pretty neat keeping things in house.
EDIT: I've also seen global markets do more harm than good for the in game economy. theres a reason for being able to have more than one guild and that is to join multiple trading guilds. Theres only so many items out there anyway. Undercutting is always horrible with a global market too.Edited by Chryos on May 3, 2014 4:16AMIf I am going to quote someone, it's going to be me.1 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
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And an Auction House is not a monopoly. It's just a tool to open up the market to everyone - which results in the most competitive market possible. So if it's competition in the market you like - I think you should throw your support behind implementing one of those.
There is no way you have played MMOs to any level of seriousness and have that opinion. No way. You are so off base it's crazy. Competitive? Really? It's not competition in a good sense, it's an Undercutting War. What do you think will happen to the cost of white materials (like crafting mats) when there is a global auction house? They go down. Why? Because all the stacks of Jute being put up will be I gold less than the previous guy. Competitive undercutting maybe. And when the prices of mats go down and easily available to everyone, guess what else that does? Creates an influx of gear/epics/etc, and lowers the value again.
Now consider you need to go out and farm 1500 stacks of item X, Y, and Z yourself to start crafting epics. Bit of a difference in availability then because some people won't do it, or take considerable longer time to do so. When items are harder to find, they retain value.
Because of the AH in WoW, I cant sell level 476 epics for more than a few hundred gold. Without that AH, I could probably find some fresh 90s willing to pay more.
It's really not that hard to see this. Anyone with a long history of MMOs, playing Auction Houses, or have reached milestones in other MMOs can tell you the negative effects of an AH. I have made 4-5 million gold in WoW since last year playing the AH. I made 200-250mill credits a week in Star Wars Galaxies owning the #1 Armorsmith business on the Valcyn server. I have an advantage when my competition can't see my prices, and then adjust theirs. I have an advantage when materials are equally available to the other competitors or they are forced to farm and work as hard as I did.
What advantage do I have an ESO right now? Well, I am only level 20 and completing the dungeons in that level range. So the BOE blues I get are going up on my trade guilds. If we had a global AH, about 200-500 of those would probably be listed and would be 1 gold cheaper than the next guy. Maybe I'd get 50 gold for it whereas right now I can get 300-500 for it.
Edited by Makkir on May 3, 2014 4:20AM1 -
Chryos✭✭✭✭"And an Auction House is not a monopoly. It's just a tool to open up the market to everyone - which results in the most competitive market possible. So if it's competition in the market you like - I think you should throw your support behind implementing one of those."
While I can see why you would think like this would seem like a good idea. It doesent work out like that in MMOs. It turns into the normal player never getting to sell anything or turn a profit because "Billy the nonstop mat farmer" has 484838284 of the same item as you, and constantly undercuts you so you can never sell your item. Someone else could better explain it than I can.
Basically, it would be like Walmart moving into your small town, putting small business "out of business".If I am going to quote someone, it's going to be me.2 -
Greydog✭✭✭✭The only game I've ever had trouble buying and selling player items in is this one. (and maybe NW) ..all the others I've used have mimicked an actual trade system close enough to satisfy my needs.
While this one may be useful for a fortunate few, it is obvious to any that are empathetic enough, that there are many who are falling through the cracks."I Plan on living forever ..so far so good"
Sanguine's DiscipleAsylum Amoebaeus ..A refuge for those who normally fly solo.
Message me here or in game for an invite4 -
ShinChuck✭✭✭MMO's are supposed to take time and progress, you shouldn't able to reach end game in the first week. Things shouldn't be convenient or easy, but rewarding.
What's this have to do with an AH again? I'm taking my time and progressing, but I prefer to enjoy dungeons, quests, PvP, exploring, and crafting. Give me fewer barriers to the real draws of the game, please: very few buy an MMO to play with the Guild Store over the actual content. An AH is the quickest, easiest and most time-tested method of that."It's morally wrong to suggest gameplay changes for an MMO."
...seriously, someone told me that once here. The things people will do to win their internet arguments!3 -
Jeddahwe✭✭✭Take a look at the existing guild store and ask your self "is it fun?" Even if a central trading post/market is not desired, why not improve on what you have today?
People have always traded and will alway trade, today the game is new and most don't mind gathering anything and everything they find, but what about one year down the road? What happens when active play time concentrates 49?
Lower prices are always good unless what you want is easy money!
I don't buy gold online but high prices due to lack of a fair transparent system will push people more and more towards buying gold online.Edited by Jeddahwe on May 3, 2014 5:19AM4 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭An AH is the quickest, easiest and most time-tested method of that.
Yes, thank you. But not everyone wants that. That's the argument basically. It's the opposite of the "Take your time, not convenient" style we are arguing.
I don't want botter or impatient players (the ones who want the"instant gratification instant sale" to see my prices and then undercut me by 1 gold...
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't buy gold online but high prices due to lack of a fair transparent system will push people more and more towards buying gold online.
OK, because gold selling has completely diminished in WoW due to the AH...
Actually, it is still a multi-million dollar industry (Gold Selling) for that game. The gold sellers that are not duping gold in that game are running farm bots (scripts that have their toons run around collecting resources) and then mass listing them on the Auction House.
On top of that, it doesn't matter how high the prices are. When Auction Houses come in to play, and as more gold enters the economy (from looting and questing) the "value" of that gold decreases.
In other words, if today you have 5k gold on your character and the item you want costs 1k gold...then a future date you will have 10k on your toon and that same item will cost 2k. The ratio's are still the same, just that value is inflated.
Again in WoW, at launch 10k would cost you about $100, today 10k will cost you like $9-$10. At launch spending 1k on the auction house was like spending 10k on the auction house today. See what I mean? Inflated.
The auction house will allow for mass listing and comparison of items, more easily obtainable for players and of course the gold farmers who will mass list resources at *** prices (remember, lack of minimum wage means they can pretty much sell for much much less since the American Dollar goes a much longer way for them than it does for us)
No one here, I certainly didn't, argue against improving what we currently have. I don't even like the guild Kiosks coming. But I don't think an Auction House is the solution.
If trade zones aren't practical, then maybe make them practical.
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Except it's backwards. Billy the non-stop mat farmer isn't the one undercutting, he's the one buying up your materials that you just undercut him buy so he can relist them at a higher price. You get your item sold quickly, he gets to play AH mogul.@Chryos hit it right on the head. It is ALL about undercutting
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭pjm8144b14_ESO wrote: »
Except it's backwards. Billy the non-stop mat farmer isn't the one undercutting, he's the one buying up your materials that you just undercut him buy so he can relist them at a higher price. You get your item sold quickly, he gets to play AH mogul.@Chryos hit it right on the head. It is ALL about undercutting
Regardless who undercuts, it still happens. I was one of those AH overlords last year in WoW. Sometimes with Ore for example, with so many botters it was hard to keep up when you try to do that with a resources that's basically available in unlimited supply. I had more "Fun" doing it with rare craft mats, or items that were not available in large supply.
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Elirienne✭✭✭✭
Not really. Just because you ridicule and trivialise the point about people wanting a wow clone does not mean that it's incorrect. A lot of people do want a wow clone in the eso universe. I hope the game won't go that way. Wow is a great game, but this is Elder Scrolls and please, let it stay different. Not every mmo needs to be the same.
She wasn't ridiculing you Elirienne.
All she was doing was emphasizing how your last post made her earlier point that people assume just because a game has an auction house that immediately makes it a WoW clone. And that's just not the case and really doesn't do Elder Scrolls justice.
If the only thing ESO had apart from WoW was lack of an auction house then I would hate the game. Because out of all the things ESO does that WoW does not - lack of an auction house is at the very bottom of that list in terms of superiority.
For examples: ESO gives you a lot more freedom in how you design your character. Something that has been missing in many MMORPGs, not just WoW. It emphasizes open world content and actually makes questing and exploration productive and fun again like it used to be back in the old days. It's not designed to be just an instance or daily quest grind for a few extra stats on your gear - which is the typical norm.
I could name many more things that set this game apart from WoW. But this post is already starting to get too wordy so I'll end it here. Just know that what sets this game apart from WoW is not its lack of an auction house. It's the superiority of its gameplay and the immersion of its world. The auction house is the one thing this game could learn from WoW (and many other games). Because if this game has one obvious weakness in its design its the player-based economy.
I know she was not ridiculing me. She was ridiculing the "wow clone" argument, which , in fairness, can get ridiculous, but it does not necessarily mean that there is no truth to it. And I agree with you on many points, but I am looking at it from a solo perspective, and in this game there are many more soloers than in other mmos. I personally would prefer if the game did not sacrifice immersion and the focus on solo play for the sake of the mmo aspects, but as long as they coexist without compromises, i really don't mind.1 -
trinta✭✭✭An AH is the quickest, easiest and most time-tested method of that.
Yes, thank you. But not everyone wants that. That's the argument basically. It's the opposite of the "Take your time, not convenient" style we are arguing.
I don't want botter or impatient players (the ones who want the"instant gratification instant sale" to see my prices and then undercut me by 1 gold...
Did you read the rest of the post you quoted? You cherry-picked the last sentence to respond to, but here's the actual content for your perusal:What's this have to do with an AH again? I'm taking my time and progressing, but I prefer to enjoy dungeons, quests, PvP, exploring, and crafting. Give me fewer barriers to the real draws of the game, please: very few buy an MMO to play with the Guild Store over the actual content.
Sidenote: You're the one who sounds impatient because you can't wait an extra day or two for the undercutters to sell their stock so yours can get purchased.Edited by trinta on May 3, 2014 8:45AMEvery time someone swears, it gets replaced with three asterisks. There's only one three-letter swear word that I know of. I read that in the place of every set of three asterisks. It makes for some amusing sentences.5 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭This whole thread has become ridiculous, seriously. Just because there are a few names who keep pushing the issue. There is no auction house many people don't want it and tried to explain why its not NEEDED. But their opinions get shouted out our argued down, by a few people whose names keep coming up. Everyone has an opinion.
I don't need a central AH, I belong to 5 guilds and list items on 2 or 3 of those guilds and guess what my items have sold. Not just mats but items I have found. I am happy with what we have, its working for me. I don't want to be rich, I like finding and being self sufficient.
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Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Maybe we can all agree on that the game's economy needs a more open and accessible market? While I personally would prefer player vendors with a localized and searchable market board, maybe just installing localized consigment vendors would do the trick? I think having a guild store is a neat, additional feature I very much wish to keep, but public trading should be, well, public and detached from guild activities."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"3 -
JexTex✭✭Lol som of you say you dont want one now....wait a couple of months its going to be a joke...they should have had a faction based AH...like others have stated the style forces people to buy gold that dont have 5 hours a day to work on in game stuff...
This game has mutliple huge issues such as veteran system that is ultimately going to drag this game down really fast.3 -
methjester✭✭✭I've come to the conclusion that I do like this game and I plan to stick around. This game has multiple problems, the complete lack of an economy is one of it's biggest.
If they don't address this and some of the other issues they have very fast... I don't think there will be anyone to buy and sell with in a few months anyways. I see a lot of people not subbing after the next week anyways, and their lack of transparency on this weeks hotfixes is pretty scary for a first time MMO company.
To summarize, I don't think they know how to properly run an MMO, and the finished product is evident. Bug ridden and full of holes. I still like it though, I just don't know for how long.5 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Chryos hit it right on the head. It is ALL about undercutting
That's called supply and demand. That's how it works...when supply exceeds demand, prices fall, or get "undercut". All that means is that you and the other guy up there crying about undercutting can't continue to overcharge for common items. Dude, I've played just about every triple A MMO to be released since 1999, and pretty much everything you say about global markets is flat out incorrect. You're already shown your true colors, ie, ripping off the unsuspecting. You and your kind have reason to fear a centralized market.
@NukaCola - everyone already looks the same, your argument is pointless. Everyone in heavy looks the same, everyone in light looks the same. The only people that look different are the ones wearing VR costumes, and those can't be sold.
And to the lady screeching about this game being a WoW clone if we add an AH - by that logic, its already a WoW clone because it has elves and heals. Give that crap a rest.6 -
methjester✭✭✭So wildstar is coming out. I don't know if it's good or bad. They're planning a global house, and the selling of in game currency for game time.
Why are they lagging behind in this game? This will be the only major MMO that I know of that has no central trading hub or Auction house. Please don't point out an mmo that only 20,000 people in Norway play. Total Joke. It's just not funny anymore.5 -
RookBorn✭✭I disagree strongly with having an auction house. I dislike the idea of just letting your items sell for you - I feel it takes out the interaction that comes with playing an MMO. Please don't make this even more of a single player MMO. However... What I would like is a trade channel which sells different materials in different chats. (EG Armour in one, Mats for Enchanting in another...)
Or even a widened guild store. Where the leaders of guilds are given THE OPTION to make their guild stores ENTWINE with each other. So for example - your guild store could be partnered with up to 4 extra guild stores. This would create a mini 'auction-house' without it being completely global and accessable. What this would do would keep the flow of buying and selling in zone/trade chats but also allow an optional method.Khajiit Nightblade - V6--The Brigade--Biggest achievement so far - Veteran Area unlocked at 462 -
Gohlar✭✭✭✭. jesus soon everyone is asking an auction house app for their smartphones so they don't miss their precious armor by getting outbidded.
@NukaCola
I said this same thing already. It's the MMO age of handme downs and entitlement. The MMO gamer pool now is garbage and littered with kids compared to what it was.
If only everyone could be a shining example of maturity and class like you.6 -
methjester✭✭✭I disagree strongly with having an auction house. I dislike the idea of just letting your items sell for you - I feel it takes out the interaction that comes with playing an MMO. Please don't make this even more of a single player MMO. However... What I would like is a trade channel which sells different materials in different chats. (EG Armour in one, Mats for Enchanting in another...)
Or even a widened guild store. Where the leaders of guilds are given THE OPTION to make their guild stores ENTWINE with each other. So for example - your guild store could be partnered with up to 4 extra guild stores. This would create a mini 'auction-house' without it being completely global and accessable. What this would do would keep the flow of buying and selling in zone/trade chats but also allow an optional method.
I don't trust guild leaders. Anything is better than what exists now and the kiosk system won't benefit anyone but rich guilds. So here we are, stuck wasting time shouting in a system that belongs in 2002 MMO's. It's a shame, the game has promise but they're insisting on keeping the population fractured.
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Thanks!
This discussion has been closed.