So if we have a guild kiosk, wouldn't that mean the biggest trade guilds would have the kiosk most often? If so, wouldn't that mean that that guild (or 2 or 3 of the biggest guilds) will control all the pricing? Like a monopoly?

NukaCola wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NukaCola wrote: »

Is it rewarding to buy gear from some random name in a shopping window?

Why is it any more rewarding to buy gear from some random name on the trade channel or a Guild Store listing?

I'm not understanding your point.

Friends can still help friends out. Having an Auction House would not stop this.

I didn't say it was. My point was that at least it's someone you have maybe done an instance with or you have fought together somewhere. Maybe you are raiding together. Friend helping friends is good. At least you are making friends and getting to know people. Auction houses make people lazy. Why must people who have not earned high level gear get them for money? Auction houses make everything so common that you don't even stop to look at someone who has earned their gear by dedicating hours of practice to master the game.

This is poor logic. Why do you care who my friends are or how I make them? I'm used to socializing with people in my guild, but not in ESO, nobody gives a crap about the guilds they're in. I'm sure as hell not gonna go out of my way to make friends with the guy spamming chat about his overpriced useless green item he's been trying to sell for the last hour.

But at least you tried to give a reason, Nuka, instead of "AH sucks and cheaters win, ruins the economy!" which is about all I ever see from the anti-AH crusaders. But your reasoning is poor. An AH or the lack thereof has nothing whatsoever to do with who I meet in my adventures. Even if I were to buy something from a chat spammer, i wouldn't waste time socializing with them. As for "earning" high level gear...if I earned the gold I used to pay for it, then i earned it, plain and simple.

I'd love a trade channel personally. AH's don't really work out all that great. They support farmers A LOT and the farmers are having such an easy time already with this game. Let's not make it tougher on Zeni to handle the problem.

Maybe further along in the game if number of players, etc etc and other factors require it but for now, I think that people should work for a lot of their resources and if you want to buy them, the common ones are in trade guilds.

PS: Make it so we can open other chat windows without an addon. That is almost a mandatory change needed, especially if you're going to add a trade channel which would be VERY appreciated by most at this point.

NukaCola wrote: »

Saving gold is skill? Im sorry you have to explain how doing the same thing over and over and over again is skill? aka farming. Auction houses means ANYONE can go and shop the same kind of gear than someone who is a master in this game have. And im not saying i am a master at anything in this game. But it is fact that people want everything for doing basically nothing. You don't learn to play by skipping the hard parts and go for the easy way out. You need to go find the gear or make it yourself. That's how a game should work... jesus soon everyone is asking an auction house app for their smartphones so they don't miss their precious armor by getting outbidded.

I didn't say it was a skill. I said they had to work for their gold to buy the high-level piece of gear. So I don't understand why you wouldn't think they earned it.

For example: when I worked as a busboy I cleaned tables. It wasn't really a skill and I did the same thing over and over. But I still earned the hell out every dollar.

Klimarov wrote: »

At first i thought "where is the Action House", than i joined a trade guild. My first impression made me think that Action house is a must, however after a good brainstorm i realized that the fact that we're allowed to join 5 guilds, plus each has ability to open their own store is a great idea.

Why i think the Trade guild idea is good and why it wins over one General Action House? Well basically one general Action house is a monopoly, which proves less effective in reality and therefore every country has anti-monopolistic committee, in real life, in game it works similarly.

In general action house, farmers will control the general goods market and rare loot will be controlled by best PVE guild. That's when market becomes over saturated. Now look if we have various trade guilds plus PVE guilds, this actually forces a healthy competition, partnership of guilds and etc. That's where super pve guild will come to a super general goods trading guild and offer their loot at a discount rate for membership so they can get cheaper raid ingredients. this is just one weak example, and there many other reasons why people will join many different guilds. Also this is much more fun and economically better than having just one action house. If you're not in a guild, well,you better find one, this is an MMO element, "one hand washes the other".

But in order to have competition between markets people have to have access to them. Only 5 Guild Stores can compete for any individual consumer at a time. That's not really that much competition to be honest.

And an Auction House is not a monopoly. It's just a tool to open up the market to everyone - which results in the most competitive market possible. So if it's competition in the market you like - I think you should throw your support behind implementing one of those.

Now I am happy you find the current system more fun. But I sure don't. Scanning through all those Guild Store listings in what is almost always a futile attempt to find what I'm after is the equivalent of me having to ride all over town checking different stores before I give up. Just not fun to me.

Go play WoW if you want a economy ruining, cheater-friendly global AH.

ZOS obviously has no interest in ruining the game so you can conveniently buy every item that exists for rock bottom prices day one of launch.

If they did, they wouldn't be implementing MORE local store functionality (i.e., guild kiosks), and would instead put in a stupid global AH.

Luckily unlike many people here, ZOS actually grasp the situation properly.

NukaCola wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NukaCola wrote: »

Saving gold is skill? Im sorry you have to explain how doing the same thing over and over and over again is skill? aka farming. Auction houses means ANYONE can go and shop the same kind of gear than someone who is a master in this game have. And im not saying i am a master at anything in this game. But it is fact that people want everything for doing basically nothing. You don't learn to play by skipping the hard parts and go for the easy way out. You need to go find the gear or make it yourself. That's how a game should work... jesus soon everyone is asking an auction house app for their smartphones so they don't miss their precious armor by getting outbidded.

I didn't say it was a skill. I said they had to work for their gold to buy the high-level piece of gear. So I don't understand why you wouldn't think they earned it.

For example: when I worked as a busboy I cleaned tables. It wasn't really a skill and I did the same thing over and over. But I still earned the hell out every dollar.

Yes but you probably didn't earn enough to buy the best car in the market. You could probably buy a decent car. But not the best. See my point now? There are many ways to make money in this game. But why should selling ore or food reward you the same thing as it rewards a group of 10 people working as a team and killing a boss. There isn't any argument that justifies that.

It would depend on how long I was willing to save I guess. I would imagine the very best gear in the game - if it was put up for sale - would cost a lot of gold and would require a lot of work to save up. But we are theorizing now so hard to say.

But from reading your posts it doesn't sound like your beef is with an auction house really. You just want certain rewards to be exclusive to doing activities like raids. And that could be addressed in all kinds of ways - such as giving the armor special tags that inhibit the player from being able to put them up for sale on the Auction House. Final Fantasy 11 did that.

Khandi wrote: »

wait....it seems that the people that are against an auction house can't decide on if it will drive the prices sky-high because only farmers will put good gear up or it will drive all the prices of everything to 'rock bottom'...........

So which is it naysayers,sky-high or rock-bottom??

They just don't want an auction house. They don't have a valid consistent argument. Their facts change from post to post. I'm sure these are the people that are going to be gone in three months because getting gear at vet ranks is too hard.

Also, I'd love to know what an auction house cheater is. I've done very very well in other MMO's auction houses to the point where I don't have to worry about money and I have yet to cheat. Am I a cheater? I thought I just worked hard.

@methjester ✭✭

It always seems to boil down to a few arguments 1. High prices 2. Low Prices and my personal favorite 3. You just want a WoW clone omg you are such a loser!!!

And I really don't 'get' any of their reasoning.

Luckily in the post Matt made a day or two ago, they confirmed they will add the vendor stall feature in major cities somewhere down the road where guilds can rent places to hawk their wares in town.

This should fix any gripes that people who want the path of least resistance have while maintaining a good semblance of community and a focus on social and guild activity.

Bravo ZOS!

Khandi wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

I like the current system. More original than a worldwide auction house and much more immersive and realistic. Please do not become a wow clone, please.

And there is my point made Thanks!

It's a very valid point, not everyone enjoys a game with a broken economy. I do think the vendor stalls will solve most of the complaints when the feature is released. Happy hunting!

@Elirienne ✭✭✭

I'm sorry it was not my intention to ridicule you personally.

methjester wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

I like the current system. More original than a worldwide auction house and much more immersive and realistic. Please do not become a wow clone, please.

And there is my point made Thanks!

Not really. Just because you ridicule and trivialise the point about people wanting a wow clone does not mean that it's incorrect. A lot of people do want a wow clone in the eso universe. I hope the game won't go that way. Wow is a great game, but this is Elder Scrolls and please, let it stay different. Not every mmo needs to be the same.

This game isn't much like Wow, and that's why I'm enjoying it. On the other hand, there is no way to sell anything without it taking up way too much time, and that I do not enjoy. Every MMO has an auction house for a reason. The gold farmers and mega sellers will always find a way to dominate, the little guys are going to hurt in this system.

The guild kiosk system will only benefit the richest, and it will only get worse. Bank on that.

Heh, not every MMO has an AH, and there a lot of successful ones that use other systems. Ragnarok and Everquest both use a vendor/stall system, and I have to say I prefer EQ's bazaar over nearly every other system I have seen. You get so much more out of it than staring at an AH screen, and a lot of times you can trade with people to get what you want rather than being unable to see or contact whoever is selling something on an AH.

There are pluses and minuses to both systems, but personally I think the game will be quite prolific and healthy once the guild stalls are available in capital cities.

LordNowe wrote: »

I can see both sides of the argument. There are things to be said about the "Mom and Pop" stores fighting the massive supergiant conglomerates that we now have (*cough, Walmart, cough*).

And now, with "Guild Kiosks" coming, it's going to push these "mom and pop" guilds out of the way because they won't be able to compete with the massive trading guilds that already exist. Is it important? Probably. All it means is that the "Mom and Pop" guilds will have to work a bit harder to earn their gold.

While I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment, the "Mom & Pop" stores in ESO are essentially off limits to anyone who doesn't live in their little town ..pop 500 (the guild) This over-fragmentation of the market is the wall that stands between the market and it's customers. I would gladly shop at these numerous small stores if only I had access to them.

It doesn't need to be a WoW clone or a clone of any other system. It can still be unique to ESO. It just needs to be open.

Elirienne wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

I like the current system. More original than a worldwide auction house and much more immersive and realistic. Please do not become a wow clone, please.

And there is my point made Thanks!

Not really. Just because you ridicule and trivialise the point about people wanting a wow clone does not mean that it's incorrect. A lot of people do want a wow clone in the eso universe. I hope the game won't go that way. Wow is a great game, but this is Elder Scrolls and please, let it stay different. Not every mmo needs to be the same.

She wasn't ridiculing you Elirienne.

All she was doing was emphasizing how your last post made her earlier point that people assume just because a game has an auction house that immediately makes it a WoW clone. And that's just not the case and really doesn't do Elder Scrolls justice.

If the only thing ESO had apart from WoW was lack of an auction house then I would hate the game. Because out of all the things ESO does that WoW does not - lack of an auction house is at the very bottom of that list in terms of superiority.

For examples: ESO gives you a lot more freedom in how you design your character. Something that has been missing in many MMORPGs, not just WoW. It emphasizes open world content and actually makes questing and exploration productive and fun again like it used to be back in the old days. It's not designed to be just an instance or daily quest grind for a few extra stats on your gear - which is the typical norm.

I could name many more things that set this game apart from WoW. But this post is already starting to get too wordy so I'll end it here. Just know that what sets this game apart from WoW is not its lack of an auction house. It's the superiority of its gameplay and the immersion of its world. The auction house is the one thing this game could learn from WoW (and many other games). Because if this game has one obvious weakness in its design its the player-based economy.