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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Auction house is a must!
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭methjester wrote: »The bad thing is, most of us have been playing MMO's for a long time, and know the current system and the upcoming kiosk system will fail. It will. I don't know what they are trying to prevent from happening, but stifling the economy is going to drive people away. With Wildstar looming, and a WOW expansion coming... yeah, lets alienate people from a major aspect of an MMO.
This is what I'm worried about too.
I really do love this game and want it to succeed. That's why I am so persistent about this issue. Because if its not corrected it could drive away a lot of players.3 -
Khandi✭✭✭So if we have a guild kiosk, wouldn't that mean the biggest trade guilds would have the kiosk most often? If so, wouldn't that mean that that guild (or 2 or 3 of the biggest guilds) will control all the pricing? Like a monopoly?One should always be in love. That is the reason one should never marry.
~Oscar Wilde3 -
NukaCola✭✭✭Is it rewarding to buy gear from some random name in a shopping window?
Why is it any more rewarding to buy gear from some random name on the trade channel or a Guild Store listing?
I'm not understanding your point.
Friends can still help friends out. Having an Auction House would not stop this.
I didn't say it was. My point was that at least it's someone you have maybe done an instance with or you have fought together somewhere. Maybe you are raiding together. Friend helping friends is good. At least you are making friends and getting to know people. Auction houses make people lazy. Why must people who have not earned high level gear get them for money? Auction houses make everything so common that you don't even stop to look at someone who has earned their gear by dedicating hours of practice to master the game.
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is it rewarding to buy gear from some random name in a shopping window?
Why is it any more rewarding to buy gear from some random name on the trade channel or a Guild Store listing?
I'm not understanding your point.
Friends can still help friends out. Having an Auction House would not stop this.
I didn't say it was. My point was that at least it's someone you have maybe done an instance with or you have fought together somewhere. Maybe you are raiding together. Friend helping friends is good. At least you are making friends and getting to know people. Auction houses make people lazy. Why must people who have not earned high level gear get them for money? Auction houses make everything so common that you don't even stop to look at someone who has earned their gear by dedicating hours of practice to master the game.
This is poor logic. Why do you care who my friends are or how I make them? I'm used to socializing with people in my guild, but not in ESO, nobody gives a crap about the guilds they're in. I'm sure as hell not gonna go out of my way to make friends with the guy spamming chat about his overpriced useless green item he's been trying to sell for the last hour.
But at least you tried to give a reason, Nuka, instead of "AH sucks and cheaters win, ruins the economy!" which is about all I ever see from the anti-AH crusaders. But your reasoning is poor. An AH or the lack thereof has nothing whatsoever to do with who I meet in my adventures. Even if I were to buy something from a chat spammer, i wouldn't waste time socializing with them. As for "earning" high level gear...if I earned the gold I used to pay for it, then i earned it, plain and simple.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is it rewarding to buy gear from some random name in a shopping window?
Why is it any more rewarding to buy gear from some random name on the trade channel or a Guild Store listing?
I'm not understanding your point.
Friends can still help friends out. Having an Auction House would not stop this.
I didn't say it was. My point was that at least it's someone you have maybe done an instance with or you have fought together somewhere. Maybe you are raiding together. Friend helping friends is good. At least you are making friends and getting to know people. Auction houses make people lazy. Why must people who have not earned high level gear get them for money? Auction houses make everything so common that you don't even stop to look at someone who has earned their gear by dedicating hours of practice to master the game.
I don't agree that auction houses make you lazy. All they do is allow people to buy and sell more successfully.
And I'm still not understanding your point so if this question misses the mark I apologize. But why would there be a more likelihood that items you buy from trade spam or guild stores are from people you have done instances with? They are usually just random people, just as it would be with an auction house.
Chances are if it was a friend wanting to help you out they would just give you the item. And I agree with you that friends helping friends is good. But I don't understand why you think auction houses would prevent friends from helping one another.
And people have to work for their gold (excluding RMT). So I don't get why you feel someone who saved up enough gold to buy a piece of high-level gear wouldn't be earning it.
Edited by Jeremy on May 2, 2014 5:48PM5 -
Vorkk8383✭✭✭I'd love a trade channel personally. AH's don't really work out all that great. They support farmers A LOT and the farmers are having such an easy time already with this game. Let's not make it tougher on Zeni to handle the problem.
Maybe further along in the game if number of players, etc etc and other factors require it but for now, I think that people should work for a lot of their resources and if you want to buy them, the common ones are in trade guilds.
PS: Make it so we can open other chat windows without an addon. That is almost a mandatory change needed, especially if you're going to add a trade channel which would be VERY appreciated by most at this point.1 -
NukaCola✭✭✭Saving gold is skill? Im sorry you have to explain how doing the same thing over and over and over again is skill? aka farming. Auction houses means ANYONE can go and shop the same kind of gear than someone who is a master in this game have. And im not saying i am a master at anything in this game. But it is fact that people want everything for doing basically nothing. You don't learn to play by skipping the hard parts and go for the easy way out. You need to go find the gear or make it yourself. That's how a game should work... jesus soon everyone is asking an auction house app for their smartphones so they don't miss their precious armor by getting outbidded.0
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saving gold is skill? Im sorry you have to explain how doing the same thing over and over and over again is skill? aka farming. Auction houses means ANYONE can go and shop the same kind of gear than someone who is a master in this game have. And im not saying i am a master at anything in this game. But it is fact that people want everything for doing basically nothing. You don't learn to play by skipping the hard parts and go for the easy way out. You need to go find the gear or make it yourself. That's how a game should work... jesus soon everyone is asking an auction house app for their smartphones so they don't miss their precious armor by getting outbidded.
I didn't say it was a skill. I said they had to work for their gold to buy the high-level piece of gear. So I don't understand why you wouldn't think they earned it.
For example: when I worked as a busboy I cleaned tables. It wasn't really a skill and I did the same thing over and over. But I still earned the hell out every dollar.Edited by Jeremy on May 2, 2014 6:02PM5 -
Klimarov✭✭✭At first i thought "where is the Action House", than i joined a trade guild. My first impression made me think that Action house is a must, however after a good brainstorm i realized that the fact that we're allowed to join 5 guilds, plus each has ability to open their own store is a great idea.
Why i think the Trade guild idea is good and why it wins over one General Action House? Well basically one general Action house is a monopoly, which proves less effective in reality and therefore every country has anti-monopolistic committee, in real life, in game it works similarly.
In general action house, farmers will control the general goods market and rare loot will be controlled by best PVE guild. That's when market becomes over saturated. Now look if we have various trade guilds plus PVE guilds, this actually forces a healthy competition, partnership of guilds and etc. That's where super pve guild will come to a super general goods trading guild and offer their loot at a discount rate for membership so they can get cheaper raid ingredients. this is just one weak example, and there many other reasons why people will join many different guilds. Also this is much more fun and economically better than having just one action house. If you're not in a guild, well,you better find one, this is an MMO element, "one hand washes the other".
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At first i thought "where is the Action House", than i joined a trade guild. My first impression made me think that Action house is a must, however after a good brainstorm i realized that the fact that we're allowed to join 5 guilds, plus each has ability to open their own store is a great idea.
Why i think the Trade guild idea is good and why it wins over one General Action House? Well basically one general Action house is a monopoly, which proves less effective in reality and therefore every country has anti-monopolistic committee, in real life, in game it works similarly.
In general action house, farmers will control the general goods market and rare loot will be controlled by best PVE guild. That's when market becomes over saturated. Now look if we have various trade guilds plus PVE guilds, this actually forces a healthy competition, partnership of guilds and etc. That's where super pve guild will come to a super general goods trading guild and offer their loot at a discount rate for membership so they can get cheaper raid ingredients. this is just one weak example, and there many other reasons why people will join many different guilds. Also this is much more fun and economically better than having just one action house. If you're not in a guild, well,you better find one, this is an MMO element, "one hand washes the other".
But in order to have competition between markets people have to have access to them. Only 5 Guild Stores can compete for any individual consumer at a time. That's not really that much competition to be honest.
And an Auction House is not a monopoly. It's just a tool to open up the market to everyone - which results in the most competitive market possible. So if it's competition in the market you like - I think you should throw your support behind implementing one of those.
Now I am happy you find the current system more fun. But I sure don't. Scanning through all those Guild Store listings in what is almost always a futile attempt to find what I'm after is the equivalent of me having to ride all over town checking different stores before I give up. Just not fun to me.Edited by Jeremy on May 2, 2014 6:23PM5 -
NukaCola✭✭✭Saving gold is skill? Im sorry you have to explain how doing the same thing over and over and over again is skill? aka farming. Auction houses means ANYONE can go and shop the same kind of gear than someone who is a master in this game have. And im not saying i am a master at anything in this game. But it is fact that people want everything for doing basically nothing. You don't learn to play by skipping the hard parts and go for the easy way out. You need to go find the gear or make it yourself. That's how a game should work... jesus soon everyone is asking an auction house app for their smartphones so they don't miss their precious armor by getting outbidded.
I didn't say it was a skill. I said they had to work for their gold to buy the high-level piece of gear. So I don't understand why you wouldn't think they earned it.
For example: when I worked as a busboy I cleaned tables. It wasn't really a skill and I did the same thing over and over. But I still earned the hell out every dollar.
Yes but you probably didn't earn enough to buy the best car in the market. You could probably buy a decent car. But not the best. See my point now? There are many ways to make money in this game. But why should selling ore or food reward you the same thing as it rewards a group of 10 people working as a team and killing a boss. There isn't any argument that justifies that.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Go play WoW if you want a economy ruining, cheater-friendly global AH.
ZOS obviously has no interest in ruining the game so you can conveniently buy every item that exists for rock bottom prices day one of launch.
If they did, they wouldn't be implementing MORE local store functionality (i.e., guild kiosks), and would instead put in a stupid global AH.
Luckily unlike many people here, ZOS actually grasp the situation properly.Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 2, 2014 6:28PM5 -
Khandi✭✭✭wait....it seems that the people that are against an auction house can't decide on if it will drive the prices sky-high because only farmers will put good gear up or it will drive all the prices of everything to 'rock bottom'...........
So which is it naysayers,sky-high or rock-bottom??One should always be in love. That is the reason one should never marry.
~Oscar Wilde5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saving gold is skill? Im sorry you have to explain how doing the same thing over and over and over again is skill? aka farming. Auction houses means ANYONE can go and shop the same kind of gear than someone who is a master in this game have. And im not saying i am a master at anything in this game. But it is fact that people want everything for doing basically nothing. You don't learn to play by skipping the hard parts and go for the easy way out. You need to go find the gear or make it yourself. That's how a game should work... jesus soon everyone is asking an auction house app for their smartphones so they don't miss their precious armor by getting outbidded.
I didn't say it was a skill. I said they had to work for their gold to buy the high-level piece of gear. So I don't understand why you wouldn't think they earned it.
For example: when I worked as a busboy I cleaned tables. It wasn't really a skill and I did the same thing over and over. But I still earned the hell out every dollar.
Yes but you probably didn't earn enough to buy the best car in the market. You could probably buy a decent car. But not the best. See my point now? There are many ways to make money in this game. But why should selling ore or food reward you the same thing as it rewards a group of 10 people working as a team and killing a boss. There isn't any argument that justifies that.
It would depend on how long I was willing to save I guess. I would imagine the very best gear in the game - if it was put up for sale - would cost a lot of gold and would require a lot of work to save up. But we are theorizing now so hard to say.
But from reading your posts it doesn't sound like your beef is with an auction house really. You just want certain rewards to be exclusive to doing activities like raids. And that could be addressed in all kinds of ways - such as giving the armor special tags that inhibit the player from being able to put them up for sale on the Auction House. Final Fantasy 11 did that.
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Klimarov✭✭✭Jeremy ✭✭✭✭ considering your answer to my post. I had an identical view of action house as you explained, but later on i realized that the variety of guild stores is rather better, simply because the prices wont be the same for every thing. Look at WoW you want to buy illusion dust, it's all at 1 silver, or 99 copper, people just keep on undercutting to stay profitable, that's just bad. Now variety of guild stores gives us more diversity.
now my personal example, i'm in 3 trading guilds, in all 3 since level 30. 2 of them don't even have level 48+ items in store for sale, not talking about materials for crafting. and only one already has vr5 gear and mats for sale, as business man, i trade a little buy here and selling to the other two, as well as i sell my crafted gear in guild that would buy it quicker.1 -
methjester✭✭✭wait....it seems that the people that are against an auction house can't decide on if it will drive the prices sky-high because only farmers will put good gear up or it will drive all the prices of everything to 'rock bottom'...........
So which is it naysayers,sky-high or rock-bottom??
They just don't want an auction house. They don't have a valid consistent argument. Their facts change from post to post. I'm sure these are the people that are going to be gone in three months because getting gear at vet ranks is too hard.
Also, I'd love to know what an auction house cheater is. I've done very very well in other MMO's auction houses to the point where I don't have to worry about money and I have yet to cheat. Am I a cheater? I thought I just worked hard.
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NukaCola✭✭✭I don't get the argument i work hard to sell stuff in the AH so i deserve this and that. This should be an Elderscrolls game not auctionhouse online. I think everyone can agree that it is lame to see everyone walking around in the same gear as you when all the players who can't handle the challenge of some boss mechanics go buy the stuff from the auctionhouse according to the current meta.
Its like you won a gold medal too just by cutting the grass at the stadium.1 -
Khandi✭✭✭@methjester ✭✭
It always seems to boil down to a few arguments 1. High prices 2. Low Prices and my personal favorite 3. You just want a WoW clone omg you are such a loser!!!
And I really don't 'get' any of their reasoning.
One should always be in love. That is the reason one should never marry.
~Oscar Wilde5 -
Elirienne✭✭✭✭I like the current system. More original than a worldwide auction house and much more immersive and realistic. Please do not become a wow clone, please.4 -
Kiash✭✭✭Luckily in the post Matt made a day or two ago, they confirmed they will add the vendor stall feature in major cities somewhere down the road where guilds can rent places to hawk their wares in town.
This should fix any gripes that people who want the path of least resistance have while maintaining a good semblance of community and a focus on social and guild activity.
Bravo ZOS!1 -
Kiash✭✭✭
It's a very valid point, not everyone enjoys a game with a broken economy. I do think the vendor stalls will solve most of the complaints when the feature is released. Happy hunting!1 -
Elirienne✭✭✭✭
Not really. Just because you ridicule and trivialise the point about people wanting a wow clone does not mean that it's incorrect. A lot of people do want a wow clone in the eso universe. I hope the game won't go that way. Wow is a great game, but this is Elder Scrolls and please, let it stay different. Not every mmo needs to be the same.
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methjester✭✭✭
Not really. Just because you ridicule and trivialise the point about people wanting a wow clone does not mean that it's incorrect. A lot of people do want a wow clone in the eso universe. I hope the game won't go that way. Wow is a great game, but this is Elder Scrolls and please, let it stay different. Not every mmo needs to be the same.
This game isn't much like Wow, and that's why I'm enjoying it. On the other hand, there is no way to sell anything without it taking up way too much time, and that I do not enjoy. Every MMO has an auction house for a reason. The gold farmers and mega sellers will always find a way to dominate, the little guys are going to hurt in this system.
The guild kiosk system will only benefit the richest, and it will only get worse. Bank on that.
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Kiash✭✭✭methjester wrote: »
Not really. Just because you ridicule and trivialise the point about people wanting a wow clone does not mean that it's incorrect. A lot of people do want a wow clone in the eso universe. I hope the game won't go that way. Wow is a great game, but this is Elder Scrolls and please, let it stay different. Not every mmo needs to be the same.
This game isn't much like Wow, and that's why I'm enjoying it. On the other hand, there is no way to sell anything without it taking up way too much time, and that I do not enjoy. Every MMO has an auction house for a reason. The gold farmers and mega sellers will always find a way to dominate, the little guys are going to hurt in this system.
The guild kiosk system will only benefit the richest, and it will only get worse. Bank on that.
Heh, not every MMO has an AH, and there a lot of successful ones that use other systems. Ragnarok and Everquest both use a vendor/stall system, and I have to say I prefer EQ's bazaar over nearly every other system I have seen. You get so much more out of it than staring at an AH screen, and a lot of times you can trade with people to get what you want rather than being unable to see or contact whoever is selling something on an AH.
There are pluses and minuses to both systems, but personally I think the game will be quite prolific and healthy once the guild stalls are available in capital cities.
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Greydog✭✭✭✭
my pleasure
"I Plan on living forever ..so far so good"
Sanguine's DiscipleAsylum Amoebaeus ..A refuge for those who normally fly solo.
Message me here or in game for an invite1 -
Greydog✭✭✭✭I can see both sides of the argument. There are things to be said about the "Mom and Pop" stores fighting the massive supergiant conglomerates that we now have (*cough, Walmart, cough*).
And now, with "Guild Kiosks" coming, it's going to push these "mom and pop" guilds out of the way because they won't be able to compete with the massive trading guilds that already exist. Is it important? Probably. All it means is that the "Mom and Pop" guilds will have to work a bit harder to earn their gold.
While I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment, the "Mom & Pop" stores in ESO are essentially off limits to anyone who doesn't live in their little town ..pop 500 (the guild) This over-fragmentation of the market is the wall that stands between the market and it's customers. I would gladly shop at these numerous small stores if only I had access to them.
It doesn't need to be a WoW clone or a clone of any other system. It can still be unique to ESO. It just needs to be open.
"I Plan on living forever ..so far so good"
Sanguine's DiscipleAsylum Amoebaeus ..A refuge for those who normally fly solo.
Message me here or in game for an invite2 -
ShinChuck✭✭✭Saving gold is skill? Im sorry you have to explain how doing the same thing over and over and over again is skill? aka farming. Auction houses means ANYONE can go and shop the same kind of gear than someone who is a master in this game have. And im not saying i am a master at anything in this game. But it is fact that people want everything for doing basically nothing. You don't learn to play by skipping the hard parts and go for the easy way out. You need to go find the gear or make it yourself. That's how a game should work... jesus soon everyone is asking an auction house app for their smartphones so they don't miss their precious armor by getting outbidded.
I didn't say it was a skill. I said they had to work for their gold to buy the high-level piece of gear. So I don't understand why you wouldn't think they earned it.
For example: when I worked as a busboy I cleaned tables. It wasn't really a skill and I did the same thing over and over. But I still earned the hell out every dollar.
Yes but you probably didn't earn enough to buy the best car in the market. You could probably buy a decent car. But not the best. See my point now? There are many ways to make money in this game. But why should selling ore or food reward you the same thing as it rewards a group of 10 people working as a team and killing a boss. There isn't any argument that justifies that.
Has nobody ever consider that most games *don't allow* the best gear to be on the AH? Typically, you might be able to buy the very bottom rung level-capped purples, but you could never buy top tier endgame raid stuff and charge right into the newest, toughest raid out there.
I'm not asking for an AH that allows me to buy the best gear in the game. I'm asking for the same reasonable AH most games have, that allows me to buy and sell crafting mats and pre-top tier endgame stuff.
"It's morally wrong to suggest gameplay changes for an MMO."
...seriously, someone told me that once here. The things people will do to win their internet arguments!5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not really. Just because you ridicule and trivialise the point about people wanting a wow clone does not mean that it's incorrect. A lot of people do want a wow clone in the eso universe. I hope the game won't go that way. Wow is a great game, but this is Elder Scrolls and please, let it stay different. Not every mmo needs to be the same.
She wasn't ridiculing you Elirienne.
All she was doing was emphasizing how your last post made her earlier point that people assume just because a game has an auction house that immediately makes it a WoW clone. And that's just not the case and really doesn't do Elder Scrolls justice.
If the only thing ESO had apart from WoW was lack of an auction house then I would hate the game. Because out of all the things ESO does that WoW does not - lack of an auction house is at the very bottom of that list in terms of superiority.
For examples: ESO gives you a lot more freedom in how you design your character. Something that has been missing in many MMORPGs, not just WoW. It emphasizes open world content and actually makes questing and exploration productive and fun again like it used to be back in the old days. It's not designed to be just an instance or daily quest grind for a few extra stats on your gear - which is the typical norm.
I could name many more things that set this game apart from WoW. But this post is already starting to get too wordy so I'll end it here. Just know that what sets this game apart from WoW is not its lack of an auction house. It's the superiority of its gameplay and the immersion of its world. The auction house is the one thing this game could learn from WoW (and many other games). Because if this game has one obvious weakness in its design its the player-based economy.
Edited by Jeremy on May 2, 2014 9:54PM6
Thanks!This discussion has been closed.