Trading: Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow.

kargen27 · July 2022

Northwold wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Solo players are not going to have access to trials and other content either. The trading system is as much a part of the game as PvP or trials. If a player chooses not to participate that is on them.

On this point only, worth pointing out that this is a false equivalence because trials are a stand alone feature of the game. The player economy, meanwhile, plugs in to other features of the game and some of them in essence depend on it to be usable. While some people treat it as a gameplay component, it is in no way equivalent to, say, a chapter or a dungeon (or, yes, a trial). It is also a back end system.

Correct to a point but my premise still stands. The player is making a conscious decision not to participate. You can join a trade guild that has zero requirements and play solo if you wish. You do not have to interreact with guild mates in any way. I see no reason to change a system that works well and is considered by many to be one of the best features of the game because others do not want to participate in even the most miniscule of ways.

As I said above, casting judgment on people who play differently from you as if one type of player is a superior being to the other gets this debate absolutely nowhere (you just invite similar sentiments back, most especially because we are talking here about how a video game -- a toy -- is set up). The fact is, those players exist and to them -- they are also "many" -- the trading system is considered one of the *worst* features of the game.

They have different views on what constitutes a worthwhile experience to yours. And yes, you can dismiss their views, but that is not argument and that is not discussion. That is just saying "my view is better than yours".

I am not casting judgement. I am pointing out the consequences of having a certain play style. Nowhere have I ever said one type of game play is better or worse than another. We all can decide for ourselves in what part of the game we wish to participate. I miss out on part of the game because of choices I make. I wouldn't ask for others to have to change because of my choices.
The way the market works now there is a variety of levels in which players can participate. If the current system were broken then I could see some of the major changes requested. The system is not broken so a complete overhaul is not needed. Not wanting to participate is not reason to change a major feature of the game.

I also pointed out those that only want to play solo can find a guild with a trader that allows them that play style.

Dawnblade · July 2022

The current trader system is garbage, even if it technically 'works'.

It is way too clunky, limited, and a major annoyance to deal with, especially when buying (selling is an annoyance even with add-ons - just not as bad as buying, I couldn't imagine trying to use the market on console).

Personally, I'd much prefer a more centralized / non-guild-based system, but I doubt that will ever happen for a variety of reasons including technical challenges and hubris on the part of the developers.

But even without a central / non-guild system, the current system could be massively improved - add more slots for selling, add better pricing/history visibility, better tools for posting, allow players to search across traders, improve search in general, etc.

warlordangel · July 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Solo players are not going to have access to trials and other content either. The trading system is as much a part of the game as PvP or trials. If a player chooses not to participate that is on them.

On this point only, worth pointing out that this is a false equivalence because trials are a stand alone feature of the game. The player economy, meanwhile, plugs in to other features of the game and some of them in essence depend on it to be usable. While some people treat it as a gameplay component, it is in no way equivalent to, say, a chapter or a dungeon (or, yes, a trial). It is also a back end system.

Correct to a point but my premise still stands. The player is making a conscious decision not to participate. You can join a trade guild that has zero requirements and play solo if you wish. You do not have to interreact with guild mates in any way. I see no reason to change a system that works well and is considered by many to be one of the best features of the game because others do not want to participate in even the most miniscule of ways.

As I said above, casting judgment on people who play differently from you as if one type of player is a superior being to the other gets this debate absolutely nowhere (you just invite similar sentiments back, most especially because we are talking here about how a video game -- a toy -- is set up). The fact is, those players exist and to them -- they are also "many" -- the trading system is considered one of the *worst* features of the game.

They have different views on what constitutes a worthwhile experience to yours. And yes, you can dismiss their views, but that is not argument and that is not discussion. That is just saying "my view is better than yours".

I am not casting judgement. I am pointing out the consequences of having a certain play style. Nowhere have I ever said one type of game play is better or worse than another. We all can decide for ourselves in what part of the game we wish to participate. I miss out on part of the game because of choices I make. I wouldn't ask for others to have to change because of my choices.
The way the market works now there is a variety of levels in which players can participate. If the current system were broken then I could see some of the major changes requested. The system is not broken so a complete overhaul is not needed. Not wanting to participate is not reason to change a major feature of the game.

I also pointed out those that only want to play solo can find a guild with a trader that allows them that play style.

Was the vertern system broken? Were set bonuses broken before new sets came out? Was keeping Craglorn for veteran players a broken concept? Was keeping crafting materials zone specific broken? Was 2 handed weapons broken? Was the Champion Points System broken?

Changes happen all the time. How many things that have come about in the game were at the insistence that there simply be a change? Not wanting to participate because of the major feature IS the actual reason for change, that is actually the reason why these changes actually happen.

PrimusTiberius · July 2022

I like how the current trading system works and wouldn't change that up, I would like to see more traders, add one or two more next to those single traders locations. More traders, more opportunities for deals.

BTW, with this trading system, you can find some great deals, it just takes time and that's what this is really all about, players don't want to take the time to search for items, they just want it now, everyone is in such a rush these days.

edit for spelling

barney2525 · July 2022

Brrrofski wrote: »

I honestly don't see the issue.

I've played the game since day one release on Xbox. Outside of a couple of things (like days swapping etc), it's worked pretty well.

I've easily made 50m on EU, while spending most of that time in PvP.

I started on NA about 9 months ago, and I've comfortably made 6m in that time.

All of this is with minimal time invested in trading.

Xbox EU has no fees at all. No guild charges them. NA has 10k usually. Which is peanuts. And that's mainly in Mournhold and Elden Root. Most others are free.

There are plenty of people that enjoy the role of running these guilds too. Some I know play the game FOR that.

Yes, buying was really annoying at one time. With the new filters and recent searches being saved, it's nowhere near as bad anymore.

Ultimately, it's not going to change. Auction houses have their own problem too. Price fixing on 6 megaservers would be rife. You can still do it now, but it takes a lot more effort, which is good.

Nice writing

I notice you never say anything to explain HOW you made 6 mil in 9 months.

we're just supposed to take your word for it.

Ph1p · July 2022

warlordangel wrote: »

Changes happen all the time. How many things that have come about in the game were at the insistence that there simply be a change?

I fully agree that changes happen all the time, and they happen for a valid reason not merely at someone's insistence. The old veteran system changed because too many people maxed out. New sets are introduced because ZOS needs new content to sell the latest DLC. Craglorn was opened to all players because it otherwise conflicted with the One Tamriel paradigm.

You and others have raised valid concerns about the decentralized guild trading system. But do they warrant a fundamental change towards central trading hubs or auction houses, especially if you account for existing or alternative solutions? Let's see for the most common complaints:

1) Casual and solo players are shut out of making gold
Lots of people have proposed the solution of joining a casual guild with no financial or social obligations. I have yet to hear why this is not a viable option other than "some people just don't want to join guilds". And while this is a perfectly acceptable playing style, it doesn't justify upending the game for many other players.

2) The eternal grind of ever-increasing trader bids are hard on guild leaders
Nobody enjoys losing a bid or donating their own gold to secure a trader. But the main gripe comes from the hours of admin work, sending quota reminders, removing inactive players, and dealing with selfish/ignorant people ("I don't care you're in a trial now. Go back to your guild house and reset the trial dummy!"). But your proposal chips away at the community they are proud of and worked hard to establish and maintain. Wouldn't making their lives easier be more impactful, e.g., by having an in-game sales indicator for your guild members or a feature to send a quota reminder to everyone below a certain sales threshold?

3) To sell properly, you need multiple add-ons for price-checking
Absolutely true and all sides can agree on how silly this is. But how would that be different in a centralized system? Unless ESO creates an in-game solution, you still need to rely on add-ons or manually price-check each item you want to list.

4) Buying is a hassle as you have to go from trader to trader
In my opinion, the buy-side has the most valid argument against ~200 distinct guild traders. It is inefficient, commodity prices are higher than necessary, and TTC is the only (partial) remedy you have. If ESO were to move to a central model, this would be the rationale I could support.

So what now? Auction house yay or nay?
In my opinion, point 4) alone is not enough to make such a big change that could benefit many people but also actively takes something away from many others. And I'm not even talking about gold or some misguided sense of superiority over those who don't have top guild traders. It would uproot player communities and playing styles built around trading, bargain-hunting, and flipping. How would that fit with "play as you like" and "all styles are equally valid"?

Finally, a few people have already hinted at a massive issue with implementing a centralized solution: ESO is built around 6 megaservers, while WoW has several hundreds, for example, with a "central" auction house serving only a handful of connected servers at a time. So even there, you are not able to access the entire market from one spot and item prices and availability vary greatly depending on server type and population. Depending on the size of the servers, I wonder how different such an auction house would actually be compared to a well-frequented trader hub. But mostly, I don't want to imagine the performance issues if ESO had a PC-EU wide trading hub with millions of listings that everyone can access and search at the same time...

warlordangel · July 2022

Nice writing

I notice you never say anything to explain HOW you made 6 mil in 9 months.

we're just supposed to take your word for it.

[/quote]

Please don't bait people. I want this to be as civil as we can given that multiple people from around -pick a distance- can post here.

I do know that there are players who find enjoyment going through guild traders to hunt down underpriced items and reselling them.

warlordangel · July 2022

Another idea I had was this. Okay there are two really.

So the first what if gold was the only currency? Tel Var and Alliance points were taken out with AP being experience to level up in the alliance. I propose this because siege equipment is constantly in need of replacement and very usable. Also in both instances there are vendors that sell boxes with random loot of random traits. I think this has the potential of relating to the issue of the gold sink. However, I don't know how pvpers would feel about or if it would have a great affect on those elements of the game. I mean I always thought pvpers were there because that was their thing.

The other idea I had was an exchange rate. If we kept tel var and AP around, what about a one-way exchange of gold for alliance points and/or tel var. The exchange could be quite high, several games do something similar and the exchange rate is kinda one-sided. This may very well be a good gold sink idea. It would also include people who are not too keen on pvp related content to access pvp rewards.

We can also combine this with my earlier mention idea of commodity bidding. Did anyone read that one? Would anyone like me to repost that so it can be easier seen?

JKorr · July 2022

The siege equipment I never buy or use because I avoid pvp/Cyrodiil like its weaponized plague?

If you tried to exchange tel var and ap for gold you'd run into issues of pvpers not happy with pvers like me getting pvp items, assuming once the exchange was made the buyer could do what they wanted with the tel var and ap.

The pvpers are quite vocal about the possibility of ever getting a pve version of Cyrodiil because pve shouldn't have access to pvp stuff without actual pvp being involved. I imagine being able to buy pvp stuff would prove equally rant inducing.

warlordangel · July 2022

JKorr wrote: »

The siege equipment I never buy or use because I avoid pvp/Cyrodiil like its weaponized plague?

If you tried to exchange tel var and ap for gold you'd run into issues of pvpers not happy with pvers like me getting pvp items, assuming once the exchange was made the buyer could do what they wanted with the tel var and ap.

The pvpers are quite vocal about the possibility of ever getting a pve version of Cyrodiil because pve shouldn't have access to pvp stuff without actual pvp being involved. I imagine being able to buy pvp stuff would prove equally rant inducing.

I dunno about that. I mean thats very much a real possibility. I've known some pvpers who want pvers to stay out and hate it when they find them in groups with them. Theeeey know when theres a pveer out in Cyrodil.

bicketybam · July 2022

I really don't have an issue with the current system. I am in 3 trading guilds and in the past year I've made 45 million gold. I'm on Xbox NA and use an app called Tamriel Saving Co to price my listings as well as when I want to buy so I know what the average market price is. I usually don't have to go to more than 4 major cities to find what I am looking to buy at a reasonable price.

kargen27 · July 2022

warlordangel wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Solo players are not going to have access to trials and other content either. The trading system is as much a part of the game as PvP or trials. If a player chooses not to participate that is on them.

On this point only, worth pointing out that this is a false equivalence because trials are a stand alone feature of the game. The player economy, meanwhile, plugs in to other features of the game and some of them in essence depend on it to be usable. While some people treat it as a gameplay component, it is in no way equivalent to, say, a chapter or a dungeon (or, yes, a trial). It is also a back end system.

Correct to a point but my premise still stands. The player is making a conscious decision not to participate. You can join a trade guild that has zero requirements and play solo if you wish. You do not have to interreact with guild mates in any way. I see no reason to change a system that works well and is considered by many to be one of the best features of the game because others do not want to participate in even the most miniscule of ways.

As I said above, casting judgment on people who play differently from you as if one type of player is a superior being to the other gets this debate absolutely nowhere (you just invite similar sentiments back, most especially because we are talking here about how a video game -- a toy -- is set up). The fact is, those players exist and to them -- they are also "many" -- the trading system is considered one of the *worst* features of the game.

They have different views on what constitutes a worthwhile experience to yours. And yes, you can dismiss their views, but that is not argument and that is not discussion. That is just saying "my view is better than yours".

I am not casting judgement. I am pointing out the consequences of having a certain play style. Nowhere have I ever said one type of game play is better or worse than another. We all can decide for ourselves in what part of the game we wish to participate. I miss out on part of the game because of choices I make. I wouldn't ask for others to have to change because of my choices.
The way the market works now there is a variety of levels in which players can participate. If the current system were broken then I could see some of the major changes requested. The system is not broken so a complete overhaul is not needed. Not wanting to participate is not reason to change a major feature of the game.

I also pointed out those that only want to play solo can find a guild with a trader that allows them that play style.

Was the vertern system broken? Were set bonuses broken before new sets came out? Was keeping Craglorn for veteran players a broken concept? Was keeping crafting materials zone specific broken? Was 2 handed weapons broken? Was the Champion Points System broken?

Changes happen all the time. How many things that have come about in the game were at the insistence that there simply be a change? Not wanting to participate because of the major feature IS the actual reason for change, that is actually the reason why these changes actually happen.

Early in game yeah probably the vet system was broken. At least the developers saw it as broken when looking at the direction they wished the game to go.
New sets did not replace old sets. A central trade location would replace the current system.

I agree change happens all the time. Change is needed. I've even asked for changes to the way the current trading system works. We could use some quality of life improvements. Most your examples are a change in an existing part of the game and yes some of them were broken when thinking about the long term health of the game. What is being asked for here is not a change in the trading system but a complete removal.

And the proposed solution would create many more problems than it would solve. Again why wreck a major part of the game because some refuse to participate?

warlordangel · July 2022

Was the vertern system broken? Were set bonuses broken before new sets came out? Was keeping Craglorn for veteran players a broken concept? Was keeping crafting materials zone specific broken? Was 2 handed weapons broken? Was the Champion Points System broken?

Changes happen all the time. How many things that have come about in the game were at the insistence that there simply be a change? Not wanting to participate because of the major feature IS the actual reason for change, that is actually the reason why these changes actually happen. [/quote]

Early in game yeah probably the vet system was broken. At least the developers saw it as broken when looking at the direction they wished the game to go.
New sets did not replace old sets. A central trade location would replace the current system.

I agree change happens all the time. Change is needed. I've even asked for changes to the way the current trading system works. We could use some quality of life improvements. Most your examples are a change in an existing part of the game and yes some of them were broken when thinking about the long term health of the game. What is being asked for here is not a change in the trading system but a complete removal.

And the proposed solution would create many more problems than it would solve. Again why wreck a major part of the game because some refuse to participate? [/quote]

Perhaps the trading system is the same the veteren system? What was broken about? Nothing, it was just a leveling system and they chose to replace it to go into a new direction.

You claim that this is an attempt to wreck a system for the sake of a few. We are but a small amount of people posting a thread who feel strongly enough to say anything at all. Whose to say it is only a few I speak for?

kargen27 · July 2022

The veteran system became obsolete with the introduction of Tamriel One. Zones were leveled before One Tamriel so the leveling system made some sense. With the removal of levels for zones the leveling system for characters no longer worked well. Those changes were made because developers realized separating factions as they were wasn't good for the long term health of the game. So yeah the vet system was absolutely broken and needed the complete rework.
I'm not saying it is an attempt to wreck the system. I am saying it is an attempt to remove the system. A system that works well for those willing to participate.

Zodiarkslayer · July 2022

Here is the thing. The ESO economy has a distinct advantage over other MMO economies. It imposes a real life restriction: Locality. That is partially what makes prices approach an items real value, creating the greatest benefit for all. Others, like production cost and cost of storage can not be implemented, leaving a sour taste (remember, costs create value in real life). But hey, it's better than no restrictions at all.

Take that away and you have the same mediocrity that other games have.

You can actually see how the ESO economy is more robust than other MMO's economies, because the top tier prices follow the META and new releases, while prices on ressources are relatively stable or follow seasonal fluctuations, like Zeal of Zenithar event.

I mean hey, a Gucci bag or a Maserati is supposed to be expensive, right?

Ph1p · July 2022

warlordangel wrote: »

So the first what if gold was the only currency? Tel Var and Alliance points were taken out with AP being experience to level up in the alliance. I propose this because siege equipment is constantly in need of replacement and very usable. Also in both instances there are vendors that sell boxes with random loot of random traits. I think this has the potential of relating to the issue of the gold sink. However, I don't know how pvpers would feel about or if it would have a great affect on those elements of the game. I mean I always thought pvpers were there because that was their thing.

The other idea I had was an exchange rate. If we kept tel var and AP around, what about a one-way exchange of gold for alliance points and/or tel var. The exchange could be quite high, several games do something similar and the exchange rate is kinda one-sided. This may very well be a good gold sink idea. It would also include people who are not too keen on pvp related content to access pvp rewards.

We can also combine this with my earlier mention idea of commodity bidding. Did anyone read that one? Would anyone like me to repost that so it can be easier seen?

What problem are you trying to solve now? Your original post started with how much time you had to spend on farming to pay your dues and stay in a trading guild. Then it pivoted to how hard it must be for guild leaders to keep up trader bids week after week. Now this seems to be about introducing a new gold sink to counteract inflation? What does this have to do with a central trading hub vs. decentralized guild traders?

If I understand your concept of "commodity bidding" correctly, you essentially propose a brokerage system. Buyers and sellers place their bids and asks on a central platform and if there is a match, the platform executes the trade. The advantage is that both buyers and sellers can create listings, the trade is automated, and you can have high price transparency - basically how the stock market works.

Interesting concept, but still a centralized system that comes with some disadvantages, incl. easier manipulation. Also, you still haven't explained why guild traders need to be replaced, when joining a casual guild and some quality-of-life improvements could address the problems stated in your original post.

Auldwulfe · July 2022

I just bypass it - I can use the online site to check pricing, and go with about 80% of average, or 90% of minimum, I find there, and announce it in zone chat ..... it's amazing, I have yet to not be able to sell something just fine.
And, I keep an eye on the chat, while doing overland stuff - especially in Summerset, and a couple of other places, because people will post out "looking for XYZ" all the time, and I can usually just grab some of those, too

Making plenty of money, and no need for the clunky system the game has.

Auldwulfe

warlordangel · July 2022

Ph1p wrote: »

warlordangel wrote: »

So the first what if gold was the only currency? Tel Var and Alliance points were taken out with AP being experience to level up in the alliance. I propose this because siege equipment is constantly in need of replacement and very usable. Also in both instances there are vendors that sell boxes with random loot of random traits. I think this has the potential of relating to the issue of the gold sink. However, I don't know how pvpers would feel about or if it would have a great affect on those elements of the game. I mean I always thought pvpers were there because that was their thing.

The other idea I had was an exchange rate. If we kept tel var and AP around, what about a one-way exchange of gold for alliance points and/or tel var. The exchange could be quite high, several games do something similar and the exchange rate is kinda one-sided. This may very well be a good gold sink idea. It would also include people who are not too keen on pvp related content to access pvp rewards.

We can also combine this with my earlier mention idea of commodity bidding. Did anyone read that one? Would anyone like me to repost that so it can be easier seen?

What problem are you trying to solve now? Your original post started with how much time you had to spend on farming to pay your dues and stay in a trading guild. Then it pivoted to how hard it must be for guild leaders to keep up trader bids week after week. Now this seems to be about introducing a new gold sink to counteract inflation? What does this have to do with a central trading hub vs. decentralized guild traders?

If I understand your concept of "commodity bidding" correctly, you essentially propose a brokerage system. Buyers and sellers place their bids and asks on a central platform and if there is a match, the platform executes the trade. The advantage is that both buyers and sellers can create listings, the trade is automated, and you can have high price transparency - basically how the stock market works.

Interesting concept, but still a centralized system that comes with some disadvantages, incl. easier manipulation. Also, you still haven't explained why guild traders need to be replaced, when joining a casual guild and some quality-of-life improvements could address the problems stated in your original post.

In order to propose a change to a system you have to address concerns involving the change. They are not seperate issues but interrelated ones. This has everything to do with the core issue because it is not a simple issue but a multifaceted issue. All of which has in fact been discussed in the thread. Also, I never mentioned joining casual guilds and its a moot non-issue.

kargen27 · July 2022

Ph1p wrote: »

warlordangel wrote: »

So the first what if gold was the only currency? Tel Var and Alliance points were taken out with AP being experience to level up in the alliance. I propose this because siege equipment is constantly in need of replacement and very usable. Also in both instances there are vendors that sell boxes with random loot of random traits. I think this has the potential of relating to the issue of the gold sink. However, I don't know how pvpers would feel about or if it would have a great affect on those elements of the game. I mean I always thought pvpers were there because that was their thing.

The other idea I had was an exchange rate. If we kept tel var and AP around, what about a one-way exchange of gold for alliance points and/or tel var. The exchange could be quite high, several games do something similar and the exchange rate is kinda one-sided. This may very well be a good gold sink idea. It would also include people who are not too keen on pvp related content to access pvp rewards.

We can also combine this with my earlier mention idea of commodity bidding. Did anyone read that one? Would anyone like me to repost that so it can be easier seen?

What problem are you trying to solve now? Your original post started with how much time you had to spend on farming to pay your dues and stay in a trading guild. Then it pivoted to how hard it must be for guild leaders to keep up trader bids week after week. Now this seems to be about introducing a new gold sink to counteract inflation? What does this have to do with a central trading hub vs. decentralized guild traders?

If I understand your concept of "commodity bidding" correctly, you essentially propose a brokerage system. Buyers and sellers place their bids and asks on a central platform and if there is a match, the platform executes the trade. The advantage is that both buyers and sellers can create listings, the trade is automated, and you can have high price transparency - basically how the stock market works.

Interesting concept, but still a centralized system that comes with some disadvantages, incl. easier manipulation. Also, you still haven't explained why guild traders need to be replaced, when joining a casual guild and some quality-of-life improvements could address the problems stated in your original post.

New World has this system or at least had it last time I played. Most the common items were not worth listing because the fee to list ate most if not all profits. And yeah manipulation was crazy. There was several ways to take advantage of that system. The most popular was to list mid tier items at very high prices then offer more slightly below that. Some players would jump all over the lower prices not realizing they were still overpaying by quite a bit. Of course monopolizing rare items was taking place.
To be fair the game was still in its infancy so some of those early problems might have worked themselves out. I'm thinking if ESO tried to switch to a similar system now it would be an absolute disaster. If it were here from the beginning maybe it would be workable? With the vastness of the economy now and how much gold is involved putting everything in one spot would create problems beyond what games with similar systems experience.

Ph1p · July 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

To be fair the game was still in its infancy so some of those early problems might have worked themselves out. I'm thinking if ESO tried to switch to a similar system now it would be an absolute disaster. If it were here from the beginning maybe it would be workable? With the vastness of the economy now and how much gold is involved putting everything in one spot would create problems beyond what games with similar systems experience.

I think this sums it up quite well. If we were in the design phase of the trading system, you could still go for either a central or decentralized model and there wouldn't be a right or wrong answer - although I think ESO's megaserver structure still puts some limitations on a fully centralized option.

But at this point, OP is rightfully speaking about addressing "concerns involving the change". Imagine the disruption and uproar when dismantling a mature system that has 200+ guilds per megaserver, each with up to 500 members (incl. overlaps, as many people are in multiple trading guilds). It would be like turning Cyrodiil a new PVE area and ignoring the concerns of the PVP community...

warlordangel · July 2022

Ph1p wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

To be fair the game was still in its infancy so some of those early problems might have worked themselves out. I'm thinking if ESO tried to switch to a similar system now it would be an absolute disaster. If it were here from the beginning maybe it would be workable? With the vastness of the economy now and how much gold is involved putting everything in one spot would create problems beyond what games with similar systems experience.

I think this sums it up quite well. If we were in the design phase of the trading system, you could still go for either a central or decentralized model and there wouldn't be a right or wrong answer - although I think ESO's megaserver structure still puts some limitations on a fully centralized option.

But at this point, OP is rightfully speaking about addressing "concerns involving the change". Imagine the disruption and uproar when dismantling a mature system that has 200+ guilds per megaserver, each with up to 500 members (incl. overlaps, as many people are in multiple trading guilds). It would be like turning Cyrodiil a new PVE area and ignoring the concerns of the PVP community...

Thank you very much for the support. The core concern was to the lessen the burden of guild management and its participation by proposing a different business model. I tried to reach out with my personal experience, which i elaborated further in a later post, and tried to propose an initial idea. I thought this would differentiate myself from other threads similar to this one that merely complained about the situation and called on others for a plan of action.

As the thread continued legitament, or should I say defined, concerns and issues arose. Taking some time I tried to think of how these concerns could be addressed. Replacing or reworking the trading system for one purpose does not erase a slew of problems that could arise, which is why some of my post seem disconnected or relating to other elements. They are infact related, I assure you.

One of my earlier ideas was the introduction of floors and ceilings, economic terms meaning that the prices can only go so high or low. This was kind of a messy idea, but a preliminary one. I had moved onto the idea of bidding to which some of you have noticed. I thought this may be a self-limiting idea on the market system, figuring that while the item can listed at an asking price, alternative bids could be placed. The idea was something like Ebay, asking price or best offer.

The lastest idea was mentioned above. I was kind of excited to share it because I thought it was kind of all inclusive. By offering an exchange rate for AP or Tel Var I thought it would give players access to pvp related merchandise for inclusion purposes while addressing the mentioned issue of the gold sink. The gold sink was a concern raised earlier in this thread that I was trying to address.

I do believe there should be a change. I truly truly do, even if I myself am not educated or persuasive enough to solve this problem on my own. My mission was not to whine or complain, well not in most part anyways. I wanted to start a thread to propose my idea, make my views known, and to garner the opinions of others. If people have problem with this system as is, then they should speak and be allowed to speak.

I think everyone who has contributed to this thread has been great, and many people have had great ideas to share even those that did not agree with me.

Eclipse318 · July 2022

I just want a LOT more guild traders so that small guilds have a prayer of getting one for a non-ridiculous amount. I don't understand what the benefit is to anybody to have this artificial scarcity of guild traders.

I'd rather spend my time actually enjoying the game than grinding through crafting dailies on multiple characters for the gold mat drops to sell to then run around and throw handfuls of cash at traders blindly. It sucks, especially for guildmasters. I can't figure out any actual reason for it either.

JKorr · July 2022

Eclipse318 wrote: »

I just want a LOT more guild traders so that small guilds have a prayer of getting one for a non-ridiculous amount. I don't understand what the benefit is to anybody to have this artificial scarcity of guild traders.

I'd rather spend my time actually enjoying the game than grinding through crafting dailies on multiple characters for the gold mat drops to sell to then run around and throw handfuls of cash at traders blindly. It sucks, especially for guildmasters. I can't figure out any actual reason for it either.

I doubt any traders will go for 100 gold. Small guilds can and do get traders; my social guilds who bother to get one usually get one. Not in the high traffic "Trading IS the Endgame" hub towns, but they get a trader.

Scarcity of guild traders...there are over 200 guild traders. Are you sure that every trader was claimed? Every one in the main hubs, in the refuges, out in the countryside, all of them? Small guilds that want to start actively trading need a trader. They do not need one of the multiple tens of millions bid main hub ones to start. The more business they do, the more income the guild would have to try for a "better" trader next bidding round.

Shihp00 · July 2022

Northwold wrote: »

Agree with the OP and I quit the game because of it. It approaches impossible to participate in solo activities like housing that connect with the game economy without having any sensible, non-guild mechanism to sell stuff. If you are a solo player, you are not going to welcome having to spend endless time dealing with guild crap and tantrums just to be able to furnish your house. That is not entertainment.

But remember that on these forums people who want the game to stay exactly the way it is and who think that anyone who doesn't play exactly the same way as them is lazy are, er, quite prevalent.

PS Traditionally at some point someone will say "oh no not another auction house thread." Maybe, just maybe, the reason this topic comes up so much is that a lot -- A LOT -- of people really don't like the current system and see this as a fundamental problem with ESO's design.

Indeed, it feels completely incompatible with the supposed ESO ethos that the game can be played any way you like. In what sense? Any way you like as long as you like searching for, applying for and finally being accepted into a guild, checking in more than weekly, making sure you're paying the dues, and faffing around on the next login doing the precise opposite of what you wanted to be doing because your guild kicked you? Riiight...

This is the only correct opinion about this annoying system l0l- and ppl are allowed to disagree.

NettleCarrier · July 2022

Half my gameplay is playing market simulator, and it only really works because of the way trade is designed in this game. I love it! I've played auction house MMOs for years and while buying was easier there, selling was shallow and didn't have much strategy to it. If they took this away from ESO then I might just stop playing.

warlordangel · July 2022

NettleCarrier wrote: »

Half my gameplay is playing market simulator, and it only really works because of the way trade is designed in this game. I love it! I've played auction house MMOs for years and while buying was easier there, selling was shallow and didn't have much strategy to it. If they took this away from ESO then I might just stop playing.

that sounds actually very backwards. I think it is the other way around. And there is about as much strategy in selling as there is in buying with this market system. The only difference is foot work.

Jhava · July 2022

NettleCarrier wrote: »

Half my gameplay is playing market simulator, and it only really works because of the way trade is designed in this game. I love it! I've played auction house MMOs for years and while buying was easier there, selling was shallow and didn't have much strategy to it. If they took this away from ESO then I might just stop playing.

I agree with you. I very much enjoy the trade design in ESO. I would probably close the trading guilds that i run, and stop playing if they went to an auction house. To me ESO Trade is end game, its my personal pvp/gvg, and i would be lost without it.

bathynomusESO · July 2022

+1 for central Auction House... every other MMO has one, we need one, this is my biggest gripe about ESO

Geldauran · July 2022

I get it, change is scary. At the same time though, a little trust would be much appreciated.

If an auction house were to be implemented, have faith the the dev team will do it right

kargen27 · July 2022

Even if an auction house were a good idea I doubt there is any possible way to do it right at this point in the game. To do it right they would have to take a lot of gold out of the game and that means taking gold away from players. Not something that is going to be popular.
Change isn't scary. Change is necessary. Needless change often equates to bad change. Again people are trying to fix what isn't broken. Change for the sake of change is rarely a good idea.