Trading: Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow.

warlordangel

So I am aware that many people are tired of hearing about the auction house debate, but I wanted to plead my case. I wanted to start off by describing my experience. I stopped playing Eso about a year ago and have been thinking of picking it back up, but every time I do I cringe at it. It is because of the trader system as it stands now. I played for years and for year it has been the same. I join a good strong guild like "Out-of-Conduct" on the playstation system. and I need to pay dues in order to stay. But, I have to continuously farm in order to pay my dues. It goes beyond that. I have to continuously farm to keep my slots full so I can make money to participate in the market place to buy goods. The cycle continuous as farm, pay dues, rinse and repeat. I felt like I had very little time to actually play the game itself and that I was paying to work. My old guild fell apart because of the record keeping involved with keeping track of sales, bids, and trying to forecast future bid prices and locations.

I don't really think anyone would lose out if the trader bids were taken out of the equation of gameplay. Current trader NPCs could be replaced in major locations or capitals cites, not just in Mournhold, with a central trading hub/ It could be spread out in major locations as to not have every player in the game converge on 1 location at any given time. Just think of a tent kinda bazaar style where trades could be dropped off. The NPCs could be races relevant to that region. Perhaps it could be overseen by imperials, the "Imperial Exchange". Wouldn't i be something if the event ticket trader woman ran this as a year-round career?

Arthtur

And i like current trading system. So thanks but no.

If u have to farm all time just to pay dues u dont need a "strong" guild with dues. Any guild with trader should do the job.

mavfin

Don't join the exploitative trade guilds that drain you dry, but won't help you out. Problem solved.
Dues in my trade guild are 5K a month or 100K sales a month, which is absolute child's play.
Just in the course of my play, and what I just happen to pick up, I average about 750K a week. I don't push hard to sell, I just pick up what's lying around, or lands in my bags to decon or sell.

Obviously, I'm a very smalltime player as traders go, but, I don't sell/trade as a full time job. Just as a sideline to get stuff out of my bags that ended up in them...

warlordangel

mavfin wrote: »

Don't join the exploitative trade guilds that drain you dry, but won't help you out. Problem solved.
Dues in my trade guild are 5K a month or 100K sales a month, which is absolute child's play.
Just in the course of my play, and what I just happen to pick up, I average about 750K a week. I don't push hard to sell, I just pick up what's lying around, or lands in my bags to decon or sell.

that may very well be true as a single player who is a part of a guild, but what of players who have a hand in running it? Raffles, guild furniture store, player run auctions, these are all things that require time and effort to set up, record, and run. These efforts are put in with the sole-purpose of raising money to bid on a trader which is done on a weekly basis.

warlordangel

Arthtur wrote: »

And i like current trading system. So thanks but no.

If u have to farm all time just to pay dues u dont need a "strong" guild with dues. Any guild with trader should do the job.

There will be many people along the spectrum of who likes what and that is fine and perfectly acceptable. But I ask, what would really change? What would inconvenience any player aside from removing the need to place bids and the efforts that go into procuring that amount? Do you really think dues are enough in most cases to cover the costs of bidding?

mavfin

warlordangel wrote: »

that may very well be true as a single player who is a part of a guild, but what of players who have a hand in running it? Raffles, guild furniture store, player run auctions, these are all things that require time and effort to set up, record, and run. These efforts are put in with the sole-purpose of raising money to bid on a trader which is done on a weekly basis.

So, given an easy solution, you want to throw up roadblocks...

You just want to erase the current way, and have an auction house? No. WoW or GW2 or FFXIV, or <whatever> is --> that way. You can have all the AH you want there.

EDIT: yes, I know about the work in running a trade guild. I do my part. I usually spend 500-750K a month at auction, but that's still only one week's income on average...

warlordangel

mavfin wrote: »

warlordangel wrote: »

that may very well be true as a single player who is a part of a guild, but what of players who have a hand in running it? Raffles, guild furniture store, player run auctions, these are all things that require time and effort to set up, record, and run. These efforts are put in with the sole-purpose of raising money to bid on a trader which is done on a weekly basis.

So, given an easy solution, you want to throw up roadblocks...

You just want to erase the current way, and have an auction house? No. WoW or GW2 or FFXIV, or <whatever> is --> that way. You can have all the AH you want there.

Out of curiosity, what are the roadblocks?

Northwold

Agree with the OP and I quit the game because of it. It approaches impossible to participate in solo activities like housing that connect with the game economy without having any sensible, non-guild mechanism to sell stuff. If you are a solo player, you are not going to welcome having to spend endless time dealing with guild crap and tantrums just to be able to furnish your house. That is not entertainment.

But remember that on these forums people who want the game to stay exactly the way it is and who think that anyone who doesn't play exactly the same way as them is lazy are, er, quite prevalent.

PS Traditionally at some point someone will say "oh no not another auction house thread." Maybe, just maybe, the reason this topic comes up so much is that a lot -- A LOT -- of people really don't like the current system and see this as a fundamental problem with ESO's design.

Indeed, it feels completely incompatible with the supposed ESO ethos that the game can be played any way you like. In what sense? Any way you like as long as you like searching for, applying for and finally being accepted into a guild, checking in more than weekly, making sure you're paying the dues, and faffing around on the next login doing the precise opposite of what you wanted to be doing because your guild kicked you? Riiight...

warlordangel

Northwold wrote: »

Agree with the OP and I quit the game because of it. But remember that on these forums people who want the game to stay exactly the way it is and who think that anyone who doesn't play exactly the same way as them is lazy are, er, quite prevalent.

A fear or dislike of change is normal. The current system is familiar and understood, it works well for a few, some, many. It has worked well for me as well as anyone.

Geldauran

There's a mod for that

Lady_Galadhiel

Sounds rather weird. I like the system how it is in ESO.

LalMirchi

warlordangel wrote: »

So I am aware that many people are tired of hearing about the auction house debate, but I wanted to plead my case. I wanted to start off by describing my experience. I stopped playing Eso about a year ago and have been thinking of picking it back up, but every time I do I cringe at it. It is because of the trader system as it stands now. I played for years and for year it has been the same. I join a good strong guild like "Out-of-Conduct" on the playstation system. and I need to pay dues in order to stay. But, I have to continuously farm in order to pay my dues. It goes beyond that. I have to continuously farm to keep my slots full so I can make money to participate in the market place to buy goods. The cycle continuous as farm, pay dues, rinse and repeat. I felt like I had very little time to actually play the game itself and that I was paying to work. My old guild fell apart because of the record keeping involved with keeping track of sales, bids, and trying to forecast future bid prices and locations.

I don't really think anyone would lose out if the trader bids were taken out of the equation of gameplay. Current trader NPCs could be replaced in major locations or capitals cites, not just in Mournhold, with a central trading hub/ It could be spread out in major locations as to not have every player in the game converge on 1 location at any given time. Just think of a tent kinda bazaar style where trades could be dropped off. The NPCs could be races relevant to that region. Perhaps it could be overseen by imperials, the "Imperial Exchange". Wouldn't i be something if the event ticket trader woman ran this as a year-round career?

No, a resounding no thank you. The present system works fine as it is.

Nightowl_74

I've been a proponent of centralized trading hubs ever since I began playing. I'm used to the system we have but it's a negative point to me, not a positive one.

warlordangel

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Sounds rather weird. I like the system how it is in ESO.

The point was mostly to share personal experience with the current system. The rest was just a suggestion.

Alchemical

As an ex-WoW cabal trader, I strongly oppose centralized auction houses. It literally takes one person with an axe to grind to completely sink an economy, something I both witnessed and participated in many times over the years. You simply were not allowed to buy/sell leather on my server unless /I/ was involved, and I could hike or crash the price at will because I was the only seller. Competitors immediately got bought out, if not by me then by my friends who would gift it to me, in exchange for me doing the same to markets they were running. Because we already had the liquidity to afford this we could muscle out anyone who wanted to even try selling anything for a reasonable price and keep it artificially high or else crash it on demand in retaliation for other groups trying to compete. That's how people buy those 100 million gold mounts on WoW, by exploiting centralized listings to strangle markets and bludgeon competitors with nasty tactics. There's not a single honest millionaire (IRL or in WoW)

Even though ESO is not free of collusion the ability for a few people to strangle the entire market is severely limited by decentralizing prices and giving equal power to set the standard to smaller guilds, who if willing to offer more deals due to 'bad' locations can easily get the capital to challenge for better spots and grow their market. And if you don't care about high volume trading, then being in an inconvenient location isn't a big deal, it's just a matter of patience or maybe a modest undercut to entice folks to come to your trader instead of one of the bigger ones. Places like this also rarely have dues to entice solo players who are hoarding stuff to offload it, expanding their available goods and thus potential customers. It is, in and of itself, a type of progression, it's not exactly fair to remove an entire aspect of competitive gameplay because you personally don't like it.

I average 300k a week selling things I don't even want, much less intentionally selling in demand goods, in a few modestly sized trade guilds. They ask 10-50k in weekly sales or 2-10k in direct donations, which is the equivalent of doing daily crafting writs on a single character twice a week. By no means unreasonable for the utility they provide, but it is that, a utility, one that lots of people work hard on to provide because they enjoy doing so. You have other options, like selling items in Zone chat or finding middlemen who buy in bulk 24/7 COD. They're less convenient, but it's comparable to other types of progression in which striking out on your own is usually the least effective method.

The other option is to just be broadly angry about capitalism in general, because it's a system that manufactures inconvenience so you will pay money to avoid it.

warlordangel

Alchemical wrote: »

As an ex-WoW cabal trader, I strongly oppose centralized auction houses. It literally takes one person with an axe to grind to completely sink an economy, something I both witnessed and participated in many times over the years. You simply were not allowed to buy/sell leather on my server unless /I/ was involved, and I could hike or crash the price at will because I was the only seller. Competitors immediately got bought out, if not by me then by my friends who would gift it to me, in exchange for me doing the same to markets they were running. Because we already had the liquidity to afford this we could muscle out anyone who wanted to even try selling anything for a reasonable price and keep it artificially high or else crash it on demand in retaliation for other groups trying to compete. That's how people buy those 100 million gold mounts on WoW, by exploiting centralized listings to strangle markets and bludgeon competitors with nasty tactics. There's not a single honest millionaire (IRL or in WoW)

Even though ESO is not free of collusion the ability for a few people to strangle the entire market is severely limited by decentralizing prices and giving equal power to set the standard to smaller guilds, who if willing to offer more deals due to 'bad' locations can easily get the capital to challenge for better spots and grow their market. And if you don't care about high volume trading, then being in an inconvenient location isn't a big deal, it's just a matter of patience or maybe a modest undercut to entice folks to come to your trader instead of one of the bigger ones. Places like this also rarely have dues to entice solo players who are hoarding stuff to offload it, expanding their available goods and thus potential customers. It is, in and of itself, a type of progression, it's not exactly fair to remove an entire aspect of competitive gameplay because you personally don't like it.

I average 300k a week selling things I don't even want, much less intentionally selling in demand goods, in a few modestly sized trade guilds. They ask 10-50k in weekly sales or 2-10k in direct donations, which is the equivalent of doing daily crafting writs on a single character twice a week. By no means unreasonable for the utility they provide, but it is that, a utility, one that lots of people work hard on to provide because they enjoy doing so. You have other options, like selling items in Zone chat or finding middlemen who buy in bulk 24/7 COD. They're less convenient, but it's comparable to other types of progression in which striking out on your own is usually the least effective method.

The other option is to just be broadly angry about capitalism in general, because it's a system that manufactures inconvenience so you will pay money to avoid it.

That is a very fair point, and I am glad to hear something a little more constructive than just a simple no I like things as they are. Hmmm, so how can market manipulation be stymied? I mean market manipulation exists no matter what. Ghost guilds for example have existed for quite some time. What if the prices were fixed according to common market data? I know that might contradict Eso's original intention of a player run economy.

Alchemical

warlordangel wrote: »

That is a very fair point, and I am glad to hear something a little more constructive than just a simple no I like things as they are. Hmmm, so how can market manipulation be stymied? I mean market manipulation exists no matter what. Ghost guilds for example have existed for quite some time. What if the prices were fixed according to common market data? I know that might contradict Eso's original intention of a player run economy.

Honestly? I do think something like a suggested price index (similar to TTC) could be rolled into the game baseline, especially for console players. Something like "In the past 24 hours this items's average sell price is X" to give people a decent handle on what a good price is without maintaining they go to every trader in every zone and check what it's going for. This is a convenience most PC traders have, and even though you can use the desktop version for console, I don't think it would cause any kind of unbalance to make it a proper feature that can be accessed in game.

This also broadly publishes the averages so that when they fluctuate in major ways people not 'in' on the trading scene can still raise the alarm that something's amiss. Like, I can give a good example of the current system actually grievously failing; If everyone knew Roe was going to go from 10k to 100k basically over night we probably would have seen more efforts to counter farm it and build up a better 'wall' of supply to hold it at a lower price so that demand didn't pick every reasonably priced one clean off the market faster than they could be replaced. Not everyone who farms is also a trader afterall. Lots of normal players are squatting on Roe they got at some point, people who could be enticed to offload their hoarded roe they never use when they see it jump from 10k to 25k suddenly. Lots of scattered, cheaply priced roe could absolutely sink the efforts of those with larger stocks to hike it as high as it's gotten. And what better place than an entry level trade guild who doesn't demand upfront fees or dues? The guild gets the benefits of having an in demand commodity to pull in buyers (who may then buy other things while they're there), the player gets to profit off something they weren't using, and it provides a sort of economic firebreak for inflation.

And if big guilds are priced way above average that would also be something that would be apparent at a glance, and people would be incentivized to shop around instead of relying on the convenience of big central trader areas. People charge more for the 'convenience' of selling in a major city (as is their prerogative) but often more than it would be 'reasonable' meanwhile anywhere outside of Vivec/Wayrest/Grahtwood it's going for almost 50% less. But because these lower averages aren't as widely known, it's more appealing for smaller guilds to adjust upwards towards the higher prices than to pull the already successful guilds back towards a more fair one. This has happened with Heartwood especially, with the price gradually creeping upwards from 900g to 1k, to 1.3k and now frequently over 1.6k despite the supply and demand both remaining pretty consistent. We can at least argue that Roe would have seen a supply drop off with AWA worth causing a price hike, since it wiped out the need to do Master Angler for multiple toons and so a potion of the regular suppliers dried up.

TTC might be widely available on PC but it doesn't mean it's widely utilized. Pricing transparency only helps those at the lower levels of 'progression trading' and for bigger guilds it pressures them to price in-demand or risk being exposed for excessive gouging. Most trade guilds don't have to deal with PR as is because people don't really care, they're like Walmart, people get what they came for and leave. But if it's visibly obvious they're colluding with other locals to increase prices without a change in demand then it could harm their reputation and cause their previously uninformed customer base to desert them in protest, which could allow for more big shakeups for these in-demand locations.

This is just off the top of my head, really, despite the length I didn't think too much about it. I'm sure there are lots of ways you could improve ESO's trading system without gutting or replacing it. I'm sure lots of more experience traders could give better feedback on how to promote more fair competition and to streamline onboarding new players into the scene while also opening the market for more casual participants. I know more about breaking systems than fixing them, and ESO's definitely has the fingerprints of someone who specifically tried to counter typical AH exploits. I think it's admirable, but ESO's economy itself is a bit of a mess with gold generally being devalued by massive inflation, lack of major gold sinks to remove currency from the economy, and the fact there's not even cursory anti-bot detection so both gold and material farmers have an unfair advantage. It all holds the system back from shining, imo, but there's enough that's already good with a potential to be better, it seems a shame to throw it all out as these threads often ask for.

warlordangel

Alchemical wrote: »

warlordangel wrote: »

That is a very fair point, and I am glad to hear something a little more constructive than just a simple no I like things as they are. Hmmm, so how can market manipulation be stymied? I mean market manipulation exists no matter what. Ghost guilds for example have existed for quite some time. What if the prices were fixed according to common market data? I know that might contradict Eso's original intention of a player run economy.

Honestly? I do think something like a suggested price index (similar to TTC) could be rolled into the game baseline, especially for console players. Something like "In the past 24 hours this items's average sell price is X" to give people a decent handle on what a good price is without maintaining they go to every trader in every zone and check what it's going for. This is a convenience most PC traders have, and even though you can use the desktop version for console, I don't think it would cause any kind of unbalance to make it a proper feature that can be accessed in game.

This also broadly publishes the averages so that when they fluctuate in major ways people not 'in' on the trading scene can still raise the alarm that something's amiss. Like, I can give a good example of the current system actually grievously failing; If everyone knew Roe was going to go from 10k to 100k basically over night we probably would have seen more efforts to counter farm it and build up a better 'wall' of supply to hold it at a lower price so that demand didn't pick every reasonably priced one clean off the market faster than they could be replaced. Not everyone who farms is also a trader afterall. Lots of normal players are squatting on Roe they got at some point, people who could be enticed to offload their hoarded roe they never use when they see it jump from 10k to 25k suddenly. Lots of scattered, cheaply priced roe could absolutely sink the efforts of those with larger stocks to hike it as high as it's gotten. And what better place than an entry level trade guild who doesn't demand upfront fees or dues? The guild gets the benefits of having an in demand commodity to pull in buyers (who may then buy other things while they're there), the player gets to profit off something they weren't using, and it provides a sort of economic firebreak for inflation.

And if big guilds are priced way above average that would also be something that would be apparent at a glance, and people would be incentivized to shop around instead of relying on the convenience of big central trader areas. People charge more for the 'convenience' of selling in a major city (as is their prerogative) but often more than it would be 'reasonable' meanwhile anywhere outside of Vivec/Wayrest/Grahtwood it's going for almost 50% less. But because these lower averages aren't as widely known, it's more appealing for smaller guilds to adjust upwards towards the higher prices than to pull the already successful guilds back towards a more fair one. This has happened with Heartwood especially, with the price gradually creeping upwards from 900g to 1k, to 1.3k and now frequently over 1.6k despite the supply and demand both remaining pretty consistent. We can at least argue that Roe would have seen a supply drop off with AWA worth causing a price hike, since it wiped out the need to do Master Angler for multiple toons and so a potion of the regular suppliers dried up.

TTC might be widely available on PC but it doesn't mean it's widely utilized. Pricing transparency only helps those at the lower levels of 'progression trading' and for bigger guilds it pressures them to price in-demand or risk being exposed for excessive gouging. Most trade guilds don't have to deal with PR as is because people don't really care, they're like Walmart, people get what they came for and leave. But if it's visibly obvious they're colluding with other locals to increase prices without a change in demand then it could harm their reputation and cause their previously uninformed customer base to desert them in protest, which could allow for more big shakeups for these in-demand locations.

This is just off the top of my head, really, despite the length I didn't think too much about it. I'm sure there are lots of ways you could improve ESO's trading system without gutting or replacing it. I'm sure lots of more experience traders could give better feedback on how to promote more fair competition and to streamline onboarding new players into the scene while also opening the market for more casual participants. I know more about breaking systems than fixing them, and ESO's definitely has the fingerprints of someone who specifically tried to counter typical AH exploits. I think it's admirable, but ESO's economy itself is a bit of a mess with gold generally being devalued by massive inflation, lack of major gold sinks to remove currency from the economy, and the fact there's not even cursory anti-bot detection so both gold and material farmers have an unfair advantage. It all holds the system back from shining, imo, but there's enough that's already good with a potential to be better, it seems a shame to throw it all out as these threads often ask for.

Perhaps knowing how to break a system is exactly what needs to be known. To make a remedy, you have to know the illness.

_Zathras_

warlordangel wrote: »

So I am aware that many people are tired of hearing about the auction house debate, but I wanted to plead my case. I wanted to start off by describing my experience. I stopped playing Eso about a year ago and have been thinking of picking it back up, but every time I do I cringe at it. It is because of the trader system as it stands now. I played for years and for year it has been the same. I join a good strong guild like "Out-of-Conduct" on the playstation system. and I need to pay dues in order to stay. But, I have to continuously farm in order to pay my dues. It goes beyond that. I have to continuously farm to keep my slots full so I can make money to participate in the market place to buy goods. The cycle continuous as farm, pay dues, rinse and repeat. I felt like I had very little time to actually play the game itself and that I was paying to work. My old guild fell apart because of the record keeping involved with keeping track of sales, bids, and trying to forecast future bid prices and locations.

I don't really think anyone would lose out if the trader bids were taken out of the equation of gameplay. Current trader NPCs could be replaced in major locations or capitals cites, not just in Mournhold, with a central trading hub/ It could be spread out in major locations as to not have every player in the game converge on 1 location at any given time. Just think of a tent kinda bazaar style where trades could be dropped off. The NPCs could be races relevant to that region. Perhaps it could be overseen by imperials, the "Imperial Exchange". Wouldn't i be something if the event ticket trader woman ran this as a year-round career?

A couple of things:

I hate the guild trader system as well.

BUT.. they will never change it. There are entire guilds and social systems built around it. Outside of that, the root of the system came from DAoC, so I assume Matt loved the concept there enough to carry it over here.

Also, the forum vocal minority loves the system as well. You won't find much support here. Outside of the forums, on other gaming sites, you will absolutely see the lack of an AH as being a strong negative for this game. Here, people see it as unshakably foundational.

Taggund

When selling the current system is OK, and I really like the 2 trade guilds I'm in. However, when wanting to buy something specific it is the absolute worst system possible. I'll browse for unknown plans and motifs at various traders I come across, but beyond that, I just let my gold accumulate. I'm all for an auction house or a centralized system of some type for the existing guild traders.

Alchemical

True. One of the bigger issues I think has less to do with price fixing and is more motivating solo players to adapting to a group-based market system. I think because ones that accommodate single players are so common in other MMOS and it's what everyone's use to it can be hard to change minds about it. The convenience of not having any ties or social obligations in order to convert unwanted items to profit is admittedly a nice convenience when nobody is using cheesy tactics. Even then, I kept leather of all levels in stock at a consistent price and was still paying for whatever my competitors were trying to sell in my attempts to drive them off; to some people that is still the lesser evil compared to ESO's current system. I won't begrudge them that opinion either, it's a perfectly valid one, just not one I share.

I think giving visibility to other trade guilds outside firmly established ones will help, and I think there's should be emphasis on explaining how working together to grow it as a business can be a rewarding type of gameplay rather than think of trade guilds as just something to spend one of your limited guild slots on so that you can sell things. It's an image problem and ESO doesn't explain it, much like it doesn't explain many of its other more complicated systems, which leads to people not engaging with it. It needs that 'new to beginner' onboarding I mentioned to get more players and more of their hoarded materials into the market at those lower levels to keep competition healthy and players engaged with the system.

Obviously even still that's not going to satisfy people who simply do not want to 'play' any kind of market whatsoever, they just want to shrug off their goods for more than vendor price. Maybe if there was some kind of NPC vendor (I would still keep them region exclusive personally to avoid complete centralization) who would sell items from anyone but take a more substantial cut than guild traders and/or you only could list one item at a time versus 30, that might be a decent compromise. It would still make guilds categorically the better option for people who wanted to trade often, but give people a way to get rid of their spare odds and ends for more than 10g at a vendor while giving them a taste of what the economy is like if they want to pivot into more serious trading. Such a volatile side market might even help to curb inflation by giving people with less economic investment some pull when it came to pricing. I'd probably watch such a vendor eagerly to snipe things, which would result in more of my 'big trader' gold getting spread around to little guys. But I could also see it destabilizing the whole system if it became the 'defacto' way to sell despite its draw backs, so I'm not sure if it's an idea worth pushing.

warlordangel

_Zathras_ wrote: »

warlordangel wrote: »

So I am aware that many people are tired of hearing about the auction house debate, but I wanted to plead my case. I wanted to start off by describing my experience. I stopped playing Eso about a year ago and have been thinking of picking it back up, but every time I do I cringe at it. It is because of the trader system as it stands now. I played for years and for year it has been the same. I join a good strong guild like "Out-of-Conduct" on the playstation system. and I need to pay dues in order to stay. But, I have to continuously farm in order to pay my dues. It goes beyond that. I have to continuously farm to keep my slots full so I can make money to participate in the market place to buy goods. The cycle continuous as farm, pay dues, rinse and repeat. I felt like I had very little time to actually play the game itself and that I was paying to work. My old guild fell apart because of the record keeping involved with keeping track of sales, bids, and trying to forecast future bid prices and locations.

I don't really think anyone would lose out if the trader bids were taken out of the equation of gameplay. Current trader NPCs could be replaced in major locations or capitals cites, not just in Mournhold, with a central trading hub/ It could be spread out in major locations as to not have every player in the game converge on 1 location at any given time. Just think of a tent kinda bazaar style where trades could be dropped off. The NPCs could be races relevant to that region. Perhaps it could be overseen by imperials, the "Imperial Exchange". Wouldn't i be something if the event ticket trader woman ran this as a year-round career?

A couple of things:

I hate the guild trader system as well.

BUT.. they will never change it. There are entire guilds and social systems built around it. Outside of that, the root of the system came from DAoC, so I assume Matt loved the concept there enough to carry it over here.

Also, the forum vocal minority loves the system as well. You won't find much support here. Outside of the forums, on other gaming sites, you will absolutely see the lack of an AH as being a strong negative for this game. Here, people see it as unshakably foundational.

Whats DAoC?

Dawnblade

The trader system sucks - just another time-sink / annoyance / dated anachronism to deal with.

Having said that - it is what it is and it does work.

Also, it isn't going to change, it is too enmeshed in the game, the server's of which would probably crap out if they had to support a connected marketplace.

So learn to live with the limitations - if on PC, get some add-ons - if on console, good luck.

warlordangel

I was thinking. What if the focus was shifted? Instead of bidding on traders how about bidding on the commodity instead? It could all be held in a central data base accessed at trading locations. A lot like how you can access your own guild trader from any location, the data is stored in a central location. I guess kinda like Ebay i believe that is a form of the English Auction style.

Tommy_The_Gun

I think they will never add a centralized trading system, but it does not mean there isn't a way to improve current trading system. Like many mechanics in the game - trading vendor npcs system is also one of the mechanics & activities that game has.

The thing is, this system was not changed since the game was released. So it kinda feels outdated. Other systems received various overhauls and QoL improvements. The only improvements that Trading system received is basically a better search system (that was already possible with the use of an add-on).

I think that a good way to bring some nice improvements for pretty much ever player (those who trade & those who don't) - is to add an option for guild trader npcs to also buy stuff. So, just like players within a trading guild can post items they want to sell - they would also be able to post lists of items they are interested in buying (what item, price, amount etc). So, same as the current system, any player that visits trading vendor can buy anything they want - they would also be able to sell stuff to the guild, for as long as they have required itemd in their inventory. I think that would bring something new and it would actually help in a lot of ways.

warlordangel

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think they will never add a centralized trading system, but it does not mean there isn't a way to improve current trading system. Like many mechanics in the game - trading vendor npcs system is also one of the mechanics & activities that game has.

The thing is, this system was not changed since the game was released. So it kinda feels outdated. Other systems received various overhauls and QoL improvements. The only improvements that Trading system received is basically a better search system (that was already possible with the use of an add-on).

I think that a good way to bring some nice improvements for pretty much ever player (those who trade & those who don't) - is to add an option for guild trader npcs to also buy stuff. So, just like players within a trading guild can post items they want to sell - they would also be able to post lists of items they are interested in buying (what item, price, amount etc). So, same as the current system, any player that visits trading vendor can buy anything they want - they would also be able to sell stuff to the guild, for as long as they have required itemd in their inventory. I think that would bring something new and it would actually help in a lot of ways.

Something like a system that match purchase or sale orders.

Dawnblade

Taggund wrote: »

When selling the current system is OK, and I really like the 2 trade guilds I'm in. However, when wanting to buy something specific it is the absolute worst system possible. I'll browse for unknown plans and motifs at various traders I come across, but beyond that, I just let my gold accumulate. I'm all for an auction house or a centralized system of some type for the existing guild traders.

Selling stuff isn't too bad - with add-ons.

Buying is god awful if you aren't after a basic commodity.

Alchemical

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think that a good way to bring some nice improvements for pretty much ever player (those who trade & those who don't) - is to add an option for guild trader npcs to also buy stuff. So, just like players within a trading guild can post items they want to sell - they would also be able to post lists of items they are interested in buying (what item, price, amount etc). So, same as the current system, any player that visits trading vendor can buy anything they want - they would also be able to sell stuff to the guild, for as long as they have required itemd in their inventory. I think that would bring something new and it would actually help in a lot of ways.

This is actually a really great idea IMO. It would add an interesting level of engagement by having guilds being able to essentially put out bounties on certain items and could especially help those who want to exist in specific niches like furnishing stores who need large amounts of crafting materials. You could sell your heartwood to them and buy your already crafted furniture with the profits, saving you from having to go and buy the pattern, all the materials, etc. Same could go for set crafters who can specialize in selling pre-crafted gear instead of working on commission or the master crafters who need specific style material for master writs. With a steady stream of raw materials at a price they consider sustainable, they can convert writs into more ticket items like attunable crafting stations that larger hub guilds need massive numbers of. It could allow for a lot more intricate systems of supply/demand at the very least.

And of course with large, unspecialized guilds it would still be a useful feature to simply be able to find someone there willing to flip items you can't be bothered to advertise yourself or just offload materials in bulk.

kargen27

After account wide achievements came to be I started a new character on the EU server. I did that so I could play a fresh character that wasn't getting accolades the character had not achieved. About three weeks in I saw a guild advertising for new members. They have no dues but since I've joined always have a trader. I told them when I applied to join that I was mainly on the US server so might not be real active on EU. They don't mind so long as I log in at least once every two weeks.

They seem active though usually when I am on the EU server isn't seeing a lot of traffic. If you are having problems meeting guild requirements you are in the wrong guild.

bmnoble

Just out of curiosity in this plan of your OP, what happens with the gold sink the weekly trader bid creates what replaces it?

warlordangel

bmnoble wrote: »

Just out of curiosity in this plan of your OP, what happens with the gold sink the weekly trader bid creates what replaces it?

what do you mean by gold sink? Do you mean the gold reserves in a guild bank from dues?